Ande Lyons on Breaking Free from Age Limits

Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Hartford County Living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. I love Good-Bye! Thanks for having us here, man! You're a bad boy! 

I've never been popular before. You're a bad boy! You've never been popular today, I'm going to give you this kind of a few seconds of hours of work. I've never been popular before. You're a bad boy! No, no, no, no! It's true, it's true, it is! 

Rich Bennett 0:27
What if the most powerful, profitable, purpose-filled years of your life? I haven't actually happened yet. What if '65 isn't a winding down, but a gearing up? My guest today is living proof that age is not a cage, unless you let it be. At 69 years young, Andy Lyons has built four companies, mentored startups around the globe, hosted over 900 podcast episodes and is now on a bold mission to shatter ages, once and for all. She believes pastures are for horses, not humans. We are not designed to fade into the background. We are designed to stay curious, connect it, visible, and fully alive. Th her podcast, don't be caged by your age. Andy has Andy Lyons' conversations with people 65 and older who are redefining what thriving looks like. These are individuals launching businesses, building communities, deepening relationships, improving that purpose doesn't retire. And if that wasn't enough, she's also launched the new England Pipeisters group to bring people together in real life, laughing, collaborating, supporting each other, because community doesn't have an expiration date either. And for those of you here, yes, I said New England, she's from Boston, so you can't hate on her if she's a Patriots fan or a Red Sox fan because, I mean, really, it doesn't matter. Andy, how you doing? Are you a Patriots fan in Red Sox 

Ande Lyons 2:11
Hey, 

Rich Bennett 2:11
fan? 

Ande Lyons 2:11
gosh. Patriots Celtics, Bruins, Red Sox. We've got them all rocking here in Boston and New 

Rich Bennett 2:17
(Laughs) 

Ande Lyons 2:17
England. Rich, thank you so much for having me and, wow, that introduction gave me goosebumps. How to make a goddess glow. 

Rich Bennett 2:26
(Laughs) I love it. Well, I mean, I only speak the truth. You know, and actually, I want to start, because that one thing that you say pastors are for horses, not humans, that life isn't over until basically you're dead. 

Ande Lyons 2:42
and 

Rich Bennett 2:42
So, take me back for a moment. And did you personally realize that aging wasn't something to endure or slow down for, but actually something to lean into and expand inside of? 

Ande Lyons 2:55
Oh, my gosh. I love this question because I used to host a monthly pitch event here in Boston for start-up founders. 

Rich Bennett 3:02
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 3:03
An had it for three years. And five start-up founders would pitch their value prop to a live audience of like 50, 70 people. And we'd have a couple of investors there to ask you tough questions, the audience would ask tough questions. And I can tell you, the average age in that room was about 30, maybe 35. 

Rich Bennett 3:25
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 3:26
And a couple things would happen. First, and well-meaning advice. But I'd often hear investors or an audience members say, "Explain your business as if you were telling your grandma." So right away, I'd be like, "Oh my gosh. I want to jump up in my seat." That's gender-dagism. 

Rich Bennett 3:45
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 3:45
Plus, yeah, why isn't it grandpa? Why is it always grandma? 

Rich Bennett 3:50
[laughs] 

Ande Lyons 3:50
But I looked around and I knew from what people said to me. That I was being perceived at maybe 52 when I was actually in my mid-60s at that point. 

Rich Bennett 4:05
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 4:05
And I was afraid to tell these folks my age, and even though the youngsters, and I'm talking the 20-somethings, 

Rich Bennett 4:12
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 4:12
would tell me, "And you're the most fascinating person in the room. I love hanging out with you, and I look at them going, I have shoes older than you. I have-- 

Rich Bennett 4:21
[laughs] 

Ande Lyons 4:21
Blazers that could be your grandmother. Like, how is this happening? And, 

Rich Bennett 4:25
Uh-huh. 

Ande Lyons 4:26
yes, I have a very enthusiastic spirit. So, and a lived full presence, right? But I thought I've got to come out about my age. I feel like I'm an imposter here. 

Rich Bennett 4:38
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 4:38
So when I turned 66, I took a photo of myself holding up the U. S. Route 66 sign. 

Rich Bennett 4:46
Nice. 

Ande Lyons 4:46
At your gigs in Root City. 

Rich Bennett 4:48
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 4:48
Same thing to say, I'll tell you what's next, right? Uhm, and honestly, the look on my face is, "Will you still love me?" And respect me now that you know I'm this old. And I wrote a post to go along with that called Don't Be Caged By Your Age, and I talked about ageism in tech. 

Rich Bennett 5:05
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 5:05
I talked about how hard it was to age, as an entrepreneur, how, when I turned 50, but that was it, I had to hang up my tiara for entrepreneurship, and then I went on and launched two more businesses. Right? And so, the post on LinkedIn went viral, and the comments were so inspirational red. 

Rich Bennett 5:25
Nice. 

Ande Lyons 5:25
I was hearing stories of how people had reinvented and repurposed their logics experiences, 

Rich Bennett 5:31
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 5:31
and on the other hand, I heard people just feeling so frustrated that they couldn't get work in their 60s and 70s, because of ageism. And 

Rich Bennett 5:40
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 5:41
I thought, "You know what? I have had, up to this point, I'd had five podcasts since 2012. I said, "I need to shift out of the startup ecosystem and into the pro-aging world," and really start talking about this, and helping folks age out loud and proud. 

Rich Bennett 5:59
Yes. 

Ande Lyons 5:59
Because the message I was seeing, not so much from maybe myself personally, 

Rich Bennett 6:04
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 6:04
because I've been unemployable since 1992, as an entrepreneur. 

Rich Bennett 6:10
Oh, okay. 

Ande Lyons 6:11
Mm-hmm. But for folks who were trying to stay relevant and visible, 

Rich Bennett 6:18
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 6:18
and how in the clock struck midnight, on 65, all of a sudden, their vibrancy, their purpose-filled deliciousness was supposed to go out to the pasture. We're done with you now. You know, we don't need you, because what do you know? You know nothing, and we all know everything. And it was wasting generations of talent, 

Rich Bennett 6:41
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 6:42
right? 

Rich Bennett 6:43
Yeah. And that's one thing I never understood, because I've had a lot of friends, once they hit that retirement age, they retire and they don't do anything. And unfortunately, most of them aren't here anymore. And I found that the ones- and I'm going to call him out- Ron Filling, a good friend of mine. He retired from the car business. That man- and he's in his seventies. He is busier now than when he was selling cars, because he's just volunteering all the time. He's out in the community and he's loving it. And it all- here's the funny thing, Andy. And all honesty. I was in car sales. It can- it's very stressful. He looks better now than when he was in the car business. 

Ande Lyons 7:34
It can suck this bit, 

Rich Bennett 7:35
Oh, 

Ande Lyons 7:35
idea. 

Rich Bennett 7:35
it can. 

Ande Lyons 7:36
Really, really tough industry. Well, here's the scoop in 2020- maybe 2021, the World Health Organization did a study. And they said, wow, retirement is an epidemic causing society's billions of dollars. And I'm talking in the US, Canada, UK, 

Rich Bennett 7:56
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 7:56
Australia, where age is not honored, right? 

Rich Bennett 7:59
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 8:00
And what was happening was we set up all this tension around retirement. And some people are like, oh, thank God, I don't have to go to that job anymore. Yay! But six months later, they're sitting there going, okay, I've golfed all I can. 

Rich Bennett 8:12
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 8:13
I don't think I'm going to have enough money to live another 20 years. I better go back to work. What do I do, and I think I'm just going to sit in the couch and, you know, watch TV and studies also show that a small part of the older seasoned citizen enjoys hanging out with the grandkids. 

Rich Bennett 8:31
Yes, 

Ande Lyons 8:32
but study show, it's not good for you. It's not good for your brain. You need to keep things moving and to- 

Rich Bennett 8:39
Oh, yeah. 

Ande Lyons 8:40
And so there- there's no emphasis on, well, what do we do once we've traveled and played golf and done all the things that we wanted to do in in Marjon. And this happens to folks who retire early, 55 or 60 and have not been able to figure out how to repurpose those lived experiences so that they can fuel not just their passion, their purpose, but their pocketbooks well into their 70s, 80s and 90s. 

Rich Bennett 9:08
Start a business. I mean, honestly, because when I got out of the IT field, I had, well, I didn't get out of the IT field. I messed up my back as I was laid off. And then when I went to get back in, because I was in my 50s, I was having a hard time trying to find a job. 

And all honestly, I think it was because of age and experience, because experience comes of age, and they didn't went that they wanted the younger people didn't have to pay as much. 

Ande Lyons 9:40
What 

Rich Bennett 9:41
do you do? Okay, fine, I'll start my own job. 

Ande Lyons 9:45
This is what happened to Sandra Allison, a woman I interviewed who's 73 today. Incredible tech background rich. I mean in 

Rich Bennett 9:54
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 9:54
the 70s, part of that group of our generation that just knocked it out of the park and building tech. So she had decades of experience but when she hit 58, it was like she couldn't let no. Can't get a job, can't do this. And she spent several years. So when she, early 60s, she said I've had it and she built a tech company that helps folks beat the ATS. Those are the tracking systems that will scan a resume because she had been beaten the system using tech for forever since punch cards and mainframes. So she knew how to set it up so that your resume read. So she went, you know, got all the training certification for how to do resume. It had to do help folks get positions on boards. So you know, they paid, that can pay 

Rich Bennett 10:44
really well. Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 10:46
And be something you might want to do when you retire. So she is a very successful thriving resume building business. 

Rich Bennett 10:54
What's amazing. How many, h many people, after retirement have started businesses and they're happier now than when they were working before? 

Ande Lyons 11:04
Well, in Sandra, you know, handicapped, okay, she has like one leg that doesn't work, one eye that's on its way out. 

Rich Bennett 11:11
Wow. 

Ande Lyons 11:12
You know, but she can still do 

Rich Bennett 11:13
right? 

Ande Lyons 11:14
this, 

Rich Bennett 11:14
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 11:15
And so that's the other thing we have to really honor is how do you repurpose these lived experiences based on some physical or cognitive challenges that you're experiencing? And so that's why through on the Don't Be Caged by Your Age Podcast, I only interviewed people who are 65 plus who figured it out. W it was writing a book for the 

Rich Bennett 11:39
time. 

Ande Lyons 11:39
first 

Rich Bennett 11:39
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 11:40
Or becoming a, what I call a freelance or 1099 employee. So now, okay, don't you don't have to bring me on as an employee. I can be your consultant. 

Rich Bennett 11:49
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 11:50
Because corporations 

as much as they want to have this sort of institutional bias against anyone over 55 as if we lose ambition at the age of 55, right? They have to acknowledge that the institutional knowledge that the older season to help has is very valuable. So maybe they don't bring them on as an employee, but they can bring them on as a 1099. 

Rich Bennett 12:16
Right. Good old contractor work. 

Ande Lyons 12:20
Right? 

Rich Bennett 12:20
Actually, 

Ande Lyons 12:21
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 12:21
where, where do you, because it's 65 or older, where do you find most of your guests? It's not through pod match, is it? 

Ande Lyons 12:29
No, no, but you have to remember this is my sixth podcast. 

Rich Bennett 12:32
Right. 

Ande Lyons 12:33
So I've been screening for guests for 14 years. 

Rich Bennett 12:36
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 12:37
So I go online and I just watch 

Rich Bennett 12:40
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 12:40
and I'll go on to, you know, different feeds and see, especially on TikTok, see 

Rich Bennett 12:44
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 12:44
who's being vibrant, see out there moving and has something to say. Certainly peer agents will pitch me because now they know that there has to be 65 plus and if the person is lively, you know, podcast guests need to have you know, keep the listeners and 

Rich Bennett 13:02
yeah. 

Ande Lyons 13:03
Right. So sometimes it's not just that they've got a great topic. They've got to have something a little sizzle to them. So, you know, I see what they're they've done and and then people will refer folks to me. 

Rich Bennett 13:17
all 

Ande Lyons 13:18
So, 

Rich Bennett 13:18
right, with the podcast, because even though your guests are 65 and older, I have a funny feeling you have a lot of younger listeners as well, don't you? 

Ande Lyons 13:29
I do, Rich. I really do. 

Rich Bennett 13:31
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 13:31
It's the goodness they are. You know the pressure on 40 and year olds because 

Rich Bennett 13:37
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 13:37
they're sitting there thinking, okay, I like I'm trying to raise the kids, but I'm also trying to do this in my career because I only have 15 to 20 years left and I'll be put out to pasture. That's they're indoctrinated, belief based on what they are seeing in their own organizations. 

Rich Bennett 13:52
Right. 

Ande Lyons 13:53
And so now they listen to the podcast and they go, what? I have all these extra years. I didn't even know I could be pursuing that dream in this dream and pulling that thread and do that for a few years. I mean, it has unshackled them. It has liberated them to where they are today and they go, okay, so I can focus on the kids for this period of time or I can be right here at this job just doing what I need to or what because I know coming up, I will be less burdened by responsibility. 

Rich Bennett 14:26
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 14:26
Come on. That's the most common message that I hear from my 60 70 and 80 year olds is like, it's all about me now. I have no responsibility to accept me. 

Rich Bennett 14:38
And you and I were talking in the green room and one of the things I mentioned was a lot of people get older. You know, a lot of them will write a book for the first time. How many different people? Well, I'm sure you probably can't give me a number. But have you gotten like a lot of first time authorpreneurs on? 

Ande Lyons 14:56
Gosh. Mildred Smith, the second my second interview. 

Oh, but she had a phenomenal story she wanted to tell. So what did she do? She went back to school because she felt she needed the confidence, right? And she got a master's in creative writing. 

Rich Bennett 15:14
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 15:14
Then wrote her book and then she learned how to, you know, pitch it to a publisher. God. So she didn't self-publish. She got to publish her. 

Rich Bennett 15:22
Wow. 

Ande Lyons 15:23
And 

Rich Bennett 15:24
That's hard. 

Ande Lyons 15:25
launched her book at the age of 72. 

Rich Bennett 15:29
I think I wonder if I had her on. 

Ande Lyons 15:32
You might have 

Rich Bennett 15:32
that story says from very familiar. 

Ande Lyons 15:35
She's out of Atlanta, George. She's a black woman. She came from a family of 17 kids. 

Rich Bennett 15:41
Wow. 

Ande Lyons 15:41
Um, her grandmother was a cotton. 

Rich Bennett 15:44
I know I didn't have her on, but I have to get her on now. 

Ande Lyons 15:47
She's great. Oh, she's the best guy. She's so inspirational. 

Rich Bennett 15:52
Oh, I bet I just, it's amazing to me. How many? Well, it's not amazing. Well, it, I'm going to say it's probably amazing to a lot of other younger people because let's face it. And we were probably the same way when we were younger. We thought that once you hit a certain age, you can't do anything start, business or anything like that. But there are, and I'm thinking that those numbers have turned. You're seeing more and more people 65 plus out their work and starting their own businesses, writing books. If I wasn't in the IT field, there ain't no way. I probably would have been able to start my own good news website, or even be doing this, although I went in radio. So I guess, 

Ande Lyons 16:39
well, and Rich, can I just say I said mild, mildred Smith. I don't know why it's milled, mills, everybody. 

Rich Bennett 16:44
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 16:45
So go look her up. Cotton Patch is the name of her platform and she's just fascinating. So I apologize for that, 

Rich Bennett 16:52
That's okay. 

Ande Lyons 16:52
but, but you're right. And, you know, it takes courage to learn those new things. So, you know, and of course, even if we were part of the 70s and 80s foundational 

technology building, you know, I wrote a post, I put it on Reddit, and it went viral on Reddit called boomers, our tech legends, not tech challenge. Now, the stories that people shared about what they were doing, one woman who was, I think she's a Stanford or something, in chemistry class. And the professor said, okay, and now those of you with hand held calculators, you have to sit in the back. And she's like, look to her friends and what's it? What's it? We didn't even have calculators. 

Rich Bennett 17:42
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 17:43
I mean, the stories I heard. So a lot of times because we're getting slammed all the time by the millennials and the Gen Zs, you boomers, okay, boomer. And you don't know anything. 

Rich Bennett 17:53
Do 

Ande Lyons 17:54
That's. we remember? Because then we can start saying, oh yeah, we're not good with tech. No, you are good with tech because you've had to figure out everything along the way. You, you know, from I we were talking early, but just figuring out those darn answering machines we used to have in the cassette tapes, but also to get the message and going message out going message. It was a lot. But how to use the clicker on the TVs when they first came out? That was a disaster and programming the VC. 

Rich Bennett 18:24
That's what I was just thinking about. How long did it take us to stop the clock from blinking on the VC hard? 

Ande Lyons 18:31
Exactly. We had to figure that out. So, and then we used to send mail, okay, our letters by mail. If we wanted a carbon copy, we actually had to put a carbon 

Rich Bennett 18:42
copy 

Ande Lyons 18:43
between two into pieces of paper. We had mimeograph. I still smell the Graph 

Rich Bennett 18:48
grass. 

Ande Lyons 18:49
papers from high school. And we had to, nearly to be able to learn those darn Xerox copies when they first came out, but then we had to train others in them. So, if you're a boomer listening, you have the capability because look, you're, you're using us, we call it here in Boston, that wicked smartphone. And, you know, you can do that and everything else you've done in your lifetime, you can learn new tech. 

Rich Bennett 19:13
People, these young people don't realize how easy they have it because when you mentioned the calculators, and I remember Cassie, we couldn't take calculators to school. and then some of us thought we were smart because Cassio came out with the wristwatch that had the calculator on it. 

Ande Lyons 19:29
Right. 

Rich Bennett 19:30
We were nobody was allowed to use that. We couldn't take that in. Now these people are using their phones and everything is going to come on. 

Ande Lyons 19:39
Oh my gosh. You would send a letter out and maybe you'd be lucky if you'd heard back. You'd hear back in in two weeks, right? 

Rich Bennett 19:46
Oh yeah. 

Ande Lyons 19:46
Today you don't get a response from a tech 

Rich Bennett 19:50
message. 

Ande Lyons 19:51
Message right. Everybody's upset. 

Rich Bennett 19:59
You 

Ande Lyons 20:02
know what I love to do and I don't know if a listener here can relate to this. I love to pick up the phone and call someone randomly. 

Rich Bennett 20:08
What? 

Ande Lyons 20:10
Because why not? Hi it's Andy. I just want to have that you know that's what we're really good at and that's 

Rich Bennett 20:16
Yes. 

Ande Lyons 20:16
another reason why boomers and uh what is it what is the name for the if you're born between 1954 and 65 Jones? 

Rich Bennett 20:27
oh god I don't know. I 

Ande Lyons 20:28
Something 

Rich Bennett 20:28
always get 

Ande Lyons 20:28
like 

Rich Bennett 20:28
them 

Ande Lyons 20:28
that. 

Rich Bennett 20:28
all mixed up. 

Ande Lyons 20:29
Yeah but 

Rich Bennett 20:30
I just know I'm a boomer. 

Ande Lyons 20:32
Right. We are good at calling people. 

Rich Bennett 20:35
Yes. 

Ande Lyons 20:36
It's so amazing. My husband who's 74 is working with a young startup company and he's like well did you think of calling them? So in situations he's picked up the phone and solved so many problems already just because he was willing to call them. 

Rich Bennett 20:51
Here's the sad thing Andy. Some of these people are are falling into that trap where they don't want to pick up the phone and call. And it's sad. I I still have my landline. I still have my original home phone number and a phone even though it's not on an analog line anymore because everything went digital but I I still use that all the time. I mean I have a cell phone too but I just and and my daughter God who put heads all the time she'll she called acronyms for some reason a lot of the young people love the talking acronyms so what was it she said I forget what it was exactly. I'll just say she said BRB I'm like huh she said BRB like BRB what's that she goes really I said yeah she goes be right back. So why don't you just say be right back it's a statement man the cellos and you want 

Ande Lyons 21:50
Right. 

Rich Bennett 21:50
to take it that long to explain it to me it's like I went into the lol have two different meanings probably more than that now. 

Ande Lyons 21:59
I can't keep up either 

Rich Bennett 22:01
Oh 

Ande Lyons 22:02
but I do love and this is why I love hanging out in intergenerational relation 

Rich Bennett 22:07
oh yeah 

Ande Lyons 22:08
communities and spaces I think that's the fastest way to dissolve ageism is to get in more rooms where you're the oldest person in the room really enjoying the story of your 20-year-old is sharing and what I've learned since I created the and launched two years ago new England podcasters group is I have dear friends that I have a blast with who are 40 years younger than me and 30 years younger than me and reciprocity is there. 

Rich Bennett 22:37
yeah 

Ande Lyons 22:37
I'm learning from them they're learning from me it's a wonderful exchange we're laughing it's uh it's a beautiful beautiful thing. 

Rich Bennett 22:47
Oh I love it. I'm never forget when my daughter was going to elementary school I became friends with her best friends parents and we were at a party one night and we were I don't know how the subject of age came up but I was talking um the one said oh yeah I was born in 182 and I just looked my mouth dropped and you know the husband's like a lot hard to watch like I was born in 181 they didn't do it or like what's the way I said I was in the marine corps back in the age they're like you're that old I'm like well wait me first of all I want to say that old but and to this day you know here we are we're like best friends we have brand new our next door neighbors moved in two years ago and great we became great friends they have two let's see the oldest one is three now and the 

Ande Lyons 23:46
oh 

Rich Bennett 23:46
youngest 

Ande Lyons 23:46
my gosh so 

Rich Bennett 23:47
turn 

Ande Lyons 23:47
fun 

Rich Bennett 23:47
two and of course they call me Uncle Richie um not not the parents the little kids 

Ande Lyons 23:53
the little kids 

Rich Bennett 23:54
but they're only in their 30s they're they're my son's age yeah but we get along great they'll come over we that way we were hanging out um the other night in the driveway just sitting around the fire pit having a good old time yeah it 

Ande Lyons 24:10
Beautiful- I heard that in Texas, a town in Texas has a grandma booth. And what they do, Chris is not grandpa's or here we go again with that. However, they set up the booth and all ages can buy and share their problems. Now, I don't know if I'm going to sit there all day and hear people's problems, but, yo, again, because of our lived experiences, we can understand what someone's going through, because somewhere along the 60, 70 years, we have had trauma, we have had to get through difficult situations and economic downturns and all the things and illnesses and death and tragedy that sometimes, you know, your peer at the age of 22 or 32 may not understand. 

Rich Bennett 24:58
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 24:59
And, and have enough empathy to understand. Or they may be too busy, whereas an older adult sees in to citizen has more capacity and understanding and empathy for the fragility of life. 

Rich Bennett 25:15
You mentioned the New England podcasters group. Is that an in-person thing? 

Ande Lyons 25:21
It's 

Rich Bennett 25:21
Or 

Ande Lyons 25:22
hybrid 

Rich Bennett 25:22
a virtue? 

Ande Lyons 25:22
in the 

Rich Bennett 25:22
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 25:22
sense that it's all about the in-person event, but we we meet at a cable access TV station. 

Rich Bennett 25:31
Interesting. 

Ande Lyons 25:31
Yes. Which I mean, I don't know, down in Maryland, but we have 200 of these babies here in, in Massachusetts 

Rich Bennett 25:38
Right. 

Ande Lyons 25:38
and, and around New England. And so that means we have TV cameras, we have a production studio. So we meet in the studio. And I bring that up because people can tune in virtually and that and have a great experience because they're not way out in the distance, the TV cameras. So what we do is we have what I call the huddle. 

Rich Bennett 25:58
Mm-hmm. 

Ande Lyons 25:58
So after I do, you know, welcome to everybody. We take 20 seconds to go around the room and tell our name where we live in New England. This is for the in-person folks. And as as the folks coming in virtually, who are often from other areas in the country and the world. 

Rich Bennett 26:16
Oh, 

Ande Lyons 26:16
But the camera zooms in on everybody's faces. And then so then we go to the zoom room and they're on a big, big TV screen, 

Rich Bennett 26:25
right. 

Ande Lyons 26:25
right. So we can see them really well. And they get to share where they're from and their podcast name or if they're serving the podcast industry. And then we have a nice 15 minute break to network and then we come back and we have a featured speaker. And they can see the speaker easily, hear them, watch any slideshow presentation they have, you know, to up our game. And so it becomes a meaningful experience for those who are tuning in, but also they do have formal because they know there's nothing better than an in-person event where you can look someone in the eye, 

Rich Bennett 26:57
Yes. 

Ande Lyons 26:58
have those side conversations, laugh over whatever, eat food, and you know, have good conversations and find collaborations. And then and I launched New England Podcastgers group, Rich, because when I entered, you know, January of 2024, I said, look, I'm 67. It's hard to find friends at this age of people I want to hang out with. You get so discerning. You're like, I'm only got so much time left. Well, I really want to spend time with. And I love Indy Podcastgers. 

Rich Bennett 27:28
Oh, yeah. 

Ande Lyons 27:29
Passionate about what they're doing. And I thought, well, why don't I hold a monthly event because I had said earlier, three years doing a monthly event for started founders. So I knew when you can be consistent every month at the same time on the same day, people will know that you're there. It builds trust. And so I and I didn't want it just to be Boston greater Boston or Massachusetts. I wanted it to be New England. So I could 

Rich Bennett 27:55
Right, 

Ande Lyons 27:55
really expand and grow. And so I talked to a few local people and found you know, so one of them a hosting site for us, the Westford cable access TV station and Westford mass plenty of parking as we say here in Boston. And write off 495, which means people can easily get there from main New 

Rich Bennett 28:18
right. 

Ande Lyons 28:18
Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts. And they're saying many already. Anyway, there's six New England states, everyone. And so and then for my first event because we all, when you hold an event, it's like, what if I hold a party and no one shows up? So I asked my friend, Angel, do you want to talk about how to monetize the podcast? Sure, she talks about it all the time. 

Rich Bennett 28:40
And to 

Ande Lyons 28:42
my friend, Blue Bortone, who's the Godfather of video. And I said, can you be there to hold my hand? He said, absolutely. Andy, I said, okay, I got three people plus the host. So I shorted up, wouldn't be just me hanging out. But we've had 15 to 35 40 people show up consistent, Over the two year period, and now we have more coming in virtually because they see the reels I share 

Rich Bennett 29:10
right? 

Ande Lyons 29:11
online. They're like, I'm on some of that, and then in June of 2025, I built an online companion because I got tired of chasing everybody at where they were hanging up socially on whether it's Facebook. I mean, everybody has their favorite place, and it was never the same. 

Rich Bennett 29:28
Right. 

Ande Lyons 29:29
So I built a community called the New England PODCASTOR's PODGARDEN. 

Rich Bennett 29:34
I love that. 

Ande Lyons 29:36
So because you know, Community PODGARDEN, 

Rich Bennett 29:38
Yeah, 

Ande Lyons 29:39
right. So based on that theme, so you all have agency, everybody's growing and building and doing their thing their way, but they could talk over the fence. 

Rich Bennett 29:46
right. 

Ande Lyons 29:46
What do you use in there? And what's that happening, so 

Rich Bennett 29:49
I love 

Ande Lyons 29:50
I have, we have a, what we call a monthly huddle in the greenhouse, and people share and ask questions, and I get featured speakers who can come in virtually, and that's membership only. And 

Rich Bennett 30:02
it. 

Ande Lyons 30:02
here's another thing we have to remember that for anything to have longevity and sustainability you have to fund it. So last year in March, I said to folks those words, and I said, so who's in as a founding member? It will be a hundred bucks a year for the rest of your life. If you sign up by May 30, 

Rich Bennett 30:21
which is not expensive at all. 

Ande Lyons 30:23
No, and now it's 150, and that basically covers my overhead, and 

Rich Bennett 30:27
right, 

Ande Lyons 30:28
maybe my hair makeup. 

We have a good time. 

Rich Bennett 30:37
I like 

Ande Lyons 30:38
saw it 

Rich Bennett 30:38
what you 

Ande Lyons 30:38
for asking that, 

Rich Bennett 30:39
but I like what you said there, because I, I tried to start, I launched years ago, a thing called Chesapeake podcast network featuring just independent podcasters here in the Chesapeake Bay region, which covers several states as well. And then I wanted to take it a step further years later and have us hold a networking meeting once a month. That was it. And I told the first meeting, I said, we're talking about how to monetize your podcast. I had a lot of people show up. Afterwards, crickets, 

Ande Lyons 31:15
no 

Rich Bennett 31:15
one wanted to show up. And the scary thing is, actually, I need to go back and redo this and and brainstorm again, because a lot of those podcasters are no longer podcasting. 

Ande Lyons 31:30
Right. 

Rich Bennett 31:31
And I'm, I want to expand it too. But I like the idea of a membership. 

Ande Lyons 31:38
Right. And also, I began charging for each event. 

Rich Bennett 31:41
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 31:41
So with, you know, plenty options, anybody becomes a member, they get the ticket is $15. 

Rich Bennett 31:47
Right. 

Ande Lyons 31:48
So that means if you, you, you sign up on event right, you're paying your 15 bucks, you've got skin in the game. So 

Rich Bennett 31:54
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 31:54
if you don't show up, I'm not sitting there thinking I've got a lost venues thing happening, a little lost experience, but also members don't only get, of course, a free ticket every month. They get a free ticket to bring a friend. 

Rich Bennett 32:06
Oh, 

Ande Lyons 32:07
that's how can help expand. 

Rich Bennett 32:09
what? 

Ande Lyons 32:09
Is 

Rich Bennett 32:09
Nice. Yeah. Cause everybody's getting into podcasting. They don't, they don't stay, but they're getting into it. 

Ande Lyons 32:16
But also, you know, you don't have to, we always say podcast curious folks are welcome. 

Rich Bennett 32:20
Yes. 

Ande Lyons 32:21
Because sometimes it's just being in community with a bunch of folks who are interesting, funny, all the experiences that you have at launching and building a podcast are transferable to any endeavor in life. And you've got someone talking about raising kids, you've got another one talking about paranormal and haunted homes in New England, right. You've got someone talking about cooking. I wish I were a prosciutto, right? Or you have people talking about business. It's, it's just fascinating. So I'm always encouraging people who don't have podcasts, but you know, might want to just hang around a bunch of creators who are having a good time. Come on down because we need community more than ever right now in that in person conversation. And what I love rich is that because they know I'm always there. Second Saturday of the month, the 12 noon, they can make that decision 15 minutes before I start as long as they RSVP, or if they remember, they can come right in. 

Rich Bennett 33:20
I love that. I didn't realize that the podcast and group was all that hybrid and at a studio. I mean, that's great. 

Ande Lyons 33:30
Is that fun? So 

Rich Bennett 33:31
Kelly from Hartford TV, if you're listening, hit me up. 

Ande Lyons 33:35
Kelly, 

Rich Bennett 33:35
on. 

Ande Lyons 33:36
come

Rich Bennett 33:39
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

I've always said trust matter, especially when you're investing in your home. And that's exactly why when it comes time for me to replace my windows and doors, I'm going bell-air window and door, your local window depot. There are family and business right here in our community and what I love is they combine top quality products with honest no pressure service. I've done my homework and their triple pain windows really stood out to me. Better energy efficiency, less outside noise and just an over all upgrade you can feel. And they're doors, whether you're looking for something durable, secure or just want to boost your home's curve appeal. They've got options that really make a difference. For me, it comes down to trust and I really trust Bel Air Window and Door to get it done right. If you're thinking about upgrading your home, give them a call at 410-941-3499 or visit our website at bellairwindowenddoor.com. Tell them rich sent you. Before we started too, because you were talking about networking how important that is and everything, which the PyGAS group is. But how does somebody go about starting like a local in-person community because community is important? 

Ande Lyons 35:13
Really is. Well, first of all, it has to be something you're passionate about, because like any endeavor it's going to come with ups and downs and scary moments and you have to have a really strong why is why you're doing it. And I say, make the decision, find out where you can be, be consistent. Don't make it just random here and random there. Really lock for 12 months and just say, I'm going to be here. I'm going to make sure it's a good experience for people. And so always having a speaker, having someone come in and share their knowledge, whatever that looks like, you'd be surprised at how many people want to talk about 

Rich Bennett 35:55
Yeah, 

Ande Lyons 35:56
what they're doing and what they're sharing. I have no problem getting feature speakers. In fact, in April, we've got an improv group from Manchester, New Hampshire coming in to do improv with us. It's so 

Rich Bennett 36:06
nice. 

Ande Lyons 36:07
exciting. But here's what I did from day one because again, at 67 at the time, I knew networking when Pete doesn't matter how casual or cool you are, you always come in with your mask with your networking persona, right? And so what what I did to get everybody sort of on the same playing field and bringing playfulness in is I hand out Clapper's at every meeting. 

Rich Bennett 36:38
I saw 

Ande Lyons 36:39
So 

Rich Bennett 36:39
that in one of your videos, I love that. 

Ande Lyons 36:42
And so I'd have everybody said that's what everybody used to do. And we'd all go like this, everybody would say, there's from somewhere and where I'm in my podcast and we'd be like, oh, great. And so now I don't even need to hold the Clapper because everybody's like, but it takes, it makes it silly. 

Rich Bennett 37:01
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 37:02
And so we have, you know, this wonderful playfulness that immediately helps with the vibe. So I encourage anybody who's launching something, you know, try to do something that brings that playfulness in so that people can relax 

Rich Bennett 37:15
and 

Ande Lyons 37:16
leave their masks at the door and feel safe. And that's the biggest feedback I get two years later, is that it's so welcoming. And I feel like I'm belonging. 

Rich Bennett 37:26
So let me issue this because this is a problem I've ran into before with our Lions Club. And it's funny because when I joined the Lions Club, Oh my God. 26 years ago, the average age of everybody in the club was about 72. 

Ande Lyons 37:44
right? 

Rich Bennett 37:45
Now the average age I believe is right around 40 in our club. 

Ande Lyons 37:50
Oh,

Rich Bennett 37:51
yeah. Well, when I became president eight years ago, I can't remember. I wanted to, I wanted to change some things and a lot of people got mad at me and we went from 20 members down to four members and I just rebuilt it back up. But and I've seen this happen a lot, finding speakers is not the problem. It's getting the people to come there. 

Ande Lyons 38:18
Right , 

Rich Bennett 38:19
to see and there are a lot of great speakers out there. So what's the secret, if there is a secret, to try to, even for your own club or even the public, because I'd always like to invite the public to come to these events. 

Ande Lyons 38:34
I think the secret is making you make it so welcoming. I just think 

Rich Bennett 38:40
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 38:40
just, and this is what I find extraordinary. I mean, you tell people that you haven't event like this on a Saturday. They go like, who does that? And that people drive two or three hours to come to this event. It's because they know it's fun. It's an experience that is welcoming and warm 

Rich Bennett 39:03
Right. 

Ande Lyons 39:03
and laughing. And if you can just set that tone, just like a good culture, right? 

Rich Bennett 39:08
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 39:08
To the experience where people aren't being judged, they're being welcomed. I can't stress that enough. And so you, the event host, has to be like, you're here! 

Rich Bennett 39:23
Right, 

Ande Lyons 39:23
Hey, and you're here. This is wonderful. So that they feel like, yeah, I'm here. This is great. But I'm not talking head. When what 

Rich Bennett 39:32
yeah. 

Ande Lyons 39:32
I mean by that is that I create the space in the vibe, and then I let everybody else take ownership. It's kind of like the Jim Henson story. When people said, "How did you start the Muppets?" And he always tells the story. Look, I just said to the people, bring your best, and we'll go from there, right? 

Rich Bennett 39:49
Right. 

Ande Lyons 39:50
Everybody has agency. And so I love watching the side conversations, the things that have been, I just sit there and watching the conversations and the relationships get built. It's just creating that wonderful welcoming where people feel they belong. 

Rich Bennett 40:09
All right, so crazy question, because I want to tie this in somehow, with the community things, the podcast group, all the different networking things that you've done. And how many podcasts before this one? Nine. 

Ande Lyons 40:21
Five. 

Rich Bennett 40:22
Five. Why was I thinking nine? Geez, I don't know. All right, so five, five different podcasts and speakers, which your speaker have you ever done? And I know you've done it virtually, but in person podcast recordings, with an audience. 

Ande Lyons 40:42
Well, funny. You should ask. 

Rich Bennett 40:43
Oh, okay. 

Ande Lyons 40:44
At the Westford Cable Access TV, Westford Cat, they have a podcast studio. 

Rich Bennett 40:51
Oh. 

Ande Lyons 40:52
And so we launched POTTAG with New England podcasters and several, the two to four of our podcasters will go into the podcast studio and have a blast. And they'll podcast together and they'll say it's nothing like anything they've ever done because they're together. You're bouncing off the chemistry in person. 

Rich Bennett 41:16
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 41:16
And they have an absolute blast. And so Westford Cat has four road mics like you have, they've got the sandboard, they've got a producer that sits outside, the walls are all padded and everything. So the quality is amazing. And everybody has a blast. 

Rich Bennett 41:38
And you have a live audience there. 

Ande Lyons 41:41
And you know what? We do not. 

Rich Bennett 41:43
Okay. 

Ande Lyons 41:43
That's true. The 

Rich Bennett 41:44
Not 

Ande Lyons 41:44
door 

Rich Bennett 41:45
yet. 

Ande Lyons 41:45
closes and they do it privately. So that is a really good point. You know, I struggle with that, Rich, because I was going to go to air on air fest in Brooklyn this past. Sorry. And a lot of it was watching the well-known podcasters podcasters. 

Rich Bennett 42:02
Right. 

Ande Lyons 42:03
And I was like, yeah, no, I don't want do that. But, you know, that is a really, really good point. And I know there are certain venues where people are showing up and doing a podcast live to a live audience. So you may have sparked something in me today. 

Rich Bennett 42:20
It could be fun. I've done a few of them. It could 

Ande Lyons 42:24
Was 

Rich Bennett 42:24
also. 

Ande Lyons 42:24
your experience? 

Rich Bennett 42:25
Well, the first one and this was Alex's idea from Podmatch. He, because when I did my 750th episode, I wanted to have him on. And I put a thing on, and on my Facebook group and asked for suggestions. And Alex actually chied in and said, you should do live recording. Not stream it live, but a live recording in front of an audience. I was like, Oh, he said, and have your co-host, because he knows I have different co-hosts. He said, and let them interview you at Which was scary. But no, it was fun. So what I did, I had my, when I started the first, when I started my podcast, which started out as a YouTube channel/ it was on radio. And in honesty, I broke the camera. So I told you, you have a facial radio. 

Ande Lyons 43:24
the end. 

Rich Bennett 43:24
So I had my first sponsor on, which was a restaurant. And they since then have sold it. But I've had them on. And I had another guest that was one of the most listened to episodes, who was, or is a sensei, teaches New Jitsu. So I had her on and then on my co-host. and the live audience and we got some questions from the audience but I think that one was fun but it was scary at the same time because I had no idea what my co-host were gonna ask me. 

Ande Lyons 43:58
Right. 

Rich Bennett 43:59
and 

Ande Lyons 44:00
that first of all, that can be scary period. 

Rich Bennett 44:03
Yes. 

Then we did a mental health panel. So I had some mental health professionals come in, and we did that live, and we did this at the local American Legion. That went over really well, because the audience participated, and I actually, I'm in and hosted, I ran the board, I brought in, 'cause the local health department's one of my sponsors, so I brought somebody in from there as the moderator, and it went over good. So yeah, there's something, it's weird. It's like sometimes, it depends on where you hold it. It'll go over well, but it's fine. It's different, 'cause it's not streamed live, so 

Ande Lyons 44:54
Yeah, we have a guy named Hampshire, Andy Dimaio, who does this. He goes to different venues in 

Rich Bennett 44:59
mopuh. 

Ande Lyons 44:59
New Hampshire, and we'll bring in a group of folks, and they'll do a live podcast for his podcast, which is called Granite Goodness, I believe. But you're also part of sponsors, so I'm gonna do a shout out to Mopod, which is a phenomenal platform for podcasters. They usually do mobile advertising for really big brands, but they have this nice little boost that they have for podcasters, and they've been our sponsor since June of 2024 for food, 

Rich Bennett 45:29
Oh 

Ande Lyons 45:29
so they 

Rich Bennett 45:29
no. 

Ande Lyons 45:30
fuel our event every month, and then of course our hosting site is our sponsor. 

Rich Bennett 45:35
Right. 

Ande Lyons 45:35
And then we're the best for CAT, and then one of our members that has been building websites since 1998, so she's our, she built the website and keeps us going there, and so you know, there are people who can come in and help and make sure that you keep your costs low, and that too is really important. Especially if you're using your social security check for an endeavor. 

And I'm sure that what you're doing is cost-effective and not a drain. And so the important thing is that within 11 months, I was able to prove my value proposition was that people were willing to drive and arrive on a Saturday, and be engaging and folks who want to speak, and they kept repeating and coming back, and new folks would come in and join and return, and all of that, I said, okay, so this is something people want and are willing to pay money for, with anything 

Rich Bennett 46:29
do. 

Ande Lyons 46:30
you 

Rich Bennett 46:30
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 46:30
As an entrepreneur, it's, you know, I'm solving a problem, which is isolation, right? With podcasters, you get very isolated, and this is something that people want their problem solved for, and are they willing to pay for it? 

Rich Bennett 46:43
Right, with that being said now I'm tying the entrepreneurship and the sponsors in, and I've seen this happen a lot, a lot of people that get into podcasting, and then after a while, then they want to monetize, and they don't know how. But yet they don't put together a business plan before they even launch the episode, or the first episode. Do you think that may be one of the reasons why you're seeing so many different podcasts just fall off? 

Ande Lyons 47:18
Yeah, we call that podfade. 

Rich Bennett 47:19
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 47:21
It could be because they didn't realize 

Rich Bennett 47:24
How 

Ande Lyons 47:24
that--

Rich Bennett 47:24
hard it is? 

Ande Lyons 47:25
Sometimes even 10 hours for one episode. It depends up picky, you know, 

Rich Bennett 47:29
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 47:30
but for me, of course, with all the tools nowadays, my gosh, compared to 2012, 

Rich Bennett 47:35
Oh, 

Ande Lyons 47:35
it's a no-brainer with all the things that you get help with. I think they have to understand what does monetization mean for them? 

Rich Bennett 47:44
right. 

Ande Lyons 47:44
So if they have a business and they're doing a podcast, that helps increase brand awareness. You figure, if you're doing it yourself, it's $50 a month max to pay for everything after you bought your camera and your mic, your webcam and your mic, but for all the tools to edit and do all the things, and record. You know, that is so low budget to increase the awareness of who you be. Social proof is everything in building a business. And a podcast. And especially if you're a service provider, you can interview experts in your industry. So for example, I started Donbe Cage by your age in March of 2024. I wasn't in the pro-aging community at all. Within nine months, I was considered a thought leader. 

Rich Bennett 48:37
Wow. 

Ande Lyons 48:38
That's how quickly podcasting can work to bring you into an expert status in a field. Now, what you want to do is get customers or clients to buy whatever services you have. 

Rich Bennett 48:50
Right. 

Ande Lyons 48:50
Rarely, can you monetize the podcast itself? Unless you get really good at partnership? What I mean by that is you have built up enough of an audience. You know, 150 downloads a month organically to 200 is plenty for a brand sponsorship. And you are in a niche that you are providing a voice level of influence and your production quality good enough for a brand. You can find someone who will sponsor your podcast. That could be 200 a month, 750 a month, you know, whatever you attach that value to. You are the talent. You are reaching an audience they want to be well known with. And so they don't care so much that you're not 5,000 or 10,000 downloads per episode or per month. They care that you are reaching and you have a voice because each episode is going to reach more audience in different ways, 

Rich Bennett 49:59
is 

Ande Lyons 49:59
especially if you have guests on your show. And so that sprinkles out into the world and good brands know that that's what they need. They need to have their name associated with someone who is talking about a topic that they care about. And that can be tied into their brand. 

Rich Bennett 50:18
do you and you something else you said there that that that D word download. Do you think too many new pocket well not even just 

Ande Lyons 50:26
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 50:26
new pockets, but too many pockets. Just focus on that downloads number. 

Ande Lyons 50:31
Oh my gosh, I call them vanity metrics. 

Rich Bennett 50:34
Yeah, I love that. Yes. 

Ande Lyons 50:36
You know, you see online all the time with social media and I am telling you I am on purpose to find different ways to get your podcast. Listen to 

Rich Bennett 50:47
and 

Ande Lyons 50:47
so but first of all let's address the downloads think about yourself in a room with 10 people, 25 people, 50 people. Seriously, go somewhere and be with 50 people. If you have 50 downloads that's 50 people just listen to what you have to say. 

Rich Bennett 51:05
Right. 

Ande Lyons 51:06
In a room, four times a month. I said if you if you podcast weekly, So now you're at 200 people who have heard you talk about something to me. That's huge. I think you're a winner at 50. And I think you're in the top 50% of podcasters if you have 50 downloads in 

Rich Bennett 51:25
right. 

Ande Lyons 51:25
episode you're in the top 25 if you have 100 and more downloads organically per episode. But if you want, you can hire people to help promote it will end up just being vanity, though. Unless you use moped because they do specific actual demographic 

Rich Bennett 51:43
Right. 

Ande Lyons 51:43
local for your podcast. And so it's you can't be thinking about that. You've got to be thinking about the bigger picture for your downloads. And I know it's going to tie it into something else that I said. Now I can't remember. 

Rich Bennett 51:59
Listeners 

Ande Lyons 52:02
listeners downloads. It's gone. But I have to write I'd have to hit the rewind. What was I saying? But first let's address downloads. I just think that when people launch a podcast, they have to understand it's a creative outlet. And it's a great way to market a business, a service that you're providing or to delight and entertain folks. And that there's different ways of monetizing that are oh, oh, when I was at podfest 2026, which is the annual big event for our industry for Indie podcasters. My best takeaway was when Laurel Pacell from Tinky Media said, there are people who are getting paid to talk about your podcast. And what she meant is forget, you know, this energy spent on creating posts for Instagram and LinkedIn and TikTok and YouTube and all those places. And you feel like it's crickets. There's an alumni magazine that might want to post about what your podcast is about. There's a regional magazine, there are people who are looking for content for their local papers, for their local stations, for whatever to add. And they're actually, you know, getting paid. 

Rich Bennett 53:24
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 53:24
Define content. So I always encourage folks to find unique ways to get people to listen. 

Rich Bennett 53:32
yeah. Yeah, one of the things I think that podcasters, in which ties into what you said there, that a lot of podcasters need to start doing, is writing press releases and sending them out to 

Ande Lyons 53:45
of them. Or, 

Rich Bennett 53:46
all 

Ande Lyons 53:46
or better yet, have Claude or ChadGPT write a media pitch for you. 

Rich Bennett 53:51
Well, yeah, 

Ande Lyons 53:52
Keep 

Rich Bennett 53:52
that's, 

Ande Lyons 53:52
it to 200 words. Have a good hook in the title. Understand, you know, make sure it knows exactly are you going to the local business insider or are you going to the local Farmers Network, you know, depending, you know, what you're 

Rich Bennett 54:09
yeah. 

Ande Lyons 54:09
talking about, uhm, make sure you do a proper pitch 

and get them excited about doing a story about your podcast. Why not? 

Rich Bennett 54:20
Alright, so this is a two-part question for you. 

Ande Lyons 54:23
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 54:24
Best advice for anybody, first, best advice for people that are launching a podcast under 65 and best advice for somebody launching a podcast that wants to launch a podcast over 65, or even over 60. And I, I say two-part because the mindset's different. 

Ande Lyons 54:46
Alright, 

well, for those who are over 65, you want to stay engaged and connected, go interview people. It's a way to have great conversations with perfect strangers that become your friends. 

Rich Bennett 55:03
Yes. 

Ande Lyons 55:03
And you're building out your network. You're having an incredible moment. And for those who are younger, you have something to say, and this is also for the elders, you have something to say that people, there's a group of people who want to hear it. So Seth Gough and I always had a great line called, "Sure, it's been done before, but not by you and not for us." 

Rich Bennett 55:26
Right. 

Ande Lyons 55:27
So there are people who want your vibe. They want the way you put together a salad at the salad bar, right? 

Rich Bennett 55:33
I love that. 

Ande Lyons 55:35
So they want that. And so please remember that. But most importantly, don't get past 30 episodes because the first eight, you're not going to be comfortable. The first 20, you're going to start feeling your flow. You're going to find the systems and procedures. It's not as clunky. By 30, you're like, "I'm a pro." You're feeling so good. Get to 30 episodes. And then if you're finding a draining, it's not meeting your needs, then absolutely don't do it. Or if it's the topic, y kind of like the medium of podcasting, but the topic isn't working for you. Can what you're doing and move on to the next one. I have to sign my six podcast. Nobody's holding you age of perfection or be to a decision that you may that you might have learned that it's not for you. 

Rich Bennett 56:30
I love 

Ande Lyons 56:30
And 

Rich Bennett 56:31
that. 

Ande Lyons 56:31
then join New England podcast to the group for the support you need. 

Rich Bennett 56:33
I love that even more. I love that even more. Yeah. I'm sure you get -- well, let me phrase that. I'm sure you get people contact you all the time that want to start a podcast for advice. 

Ande Lyons 56:45
Right, 

Rich Bennett 56:46
and I'm the same way. And I'll hit on right away. I say, "Well, we do want to know first the pros or the cons." And I'll tell him because, let's face it, a lot of people think this is easy. And it's not. It's not easy. But it's fun! 

Ande Lyons 57:02
But I like it. 

Rich Bennett 57:03
Oh, I love 

Ande Lyons 57:03
It's 

Rich Bennett 57:03
it. 

Ande Lyons 57:04
beginning and a middle and an end. And we are living in a time filled with so much uncertainty that has something that has a beginning. Schedule the gas. A middle. Interview the gas. And upload the podcast. 

Rich Bennett 57:18
You 

Ande Lyons 57:19
know, do all the editing and boom, you're done. And it's like, boom, you shake, you know, I did something. I accomplished something. And it had certainty to it. Yay. 

Rich Bennett 57:27
I don't delete those first episodes. 

Ande Lyons 57:30
No, 

Rich Bennett 57:31
no. 

Ande Lyons 57:31
no, 

Rich Bennett 57:31
That way you could code. It's it's training. You could see how much better it's getting or even worse. 

Ande Lyons 57:38
you know, we have we have a woman who's coming to talk to us at on March 14, 

Rich Bennett 57:43
Oh, 

Ande Lyons 57:44
2026 at our event. And she is not just a confident speaker coach. She has people go through this wonderful exercise where they will record themselves. Unlike an on camera where they their eyes and they just talk off the top of their head. A lot of times, we are can be afraid of our voices, right? And really understanding that our voices unique, again, you know, the resonance, the salad bar thing. And it's okay. You don't have to sound like Terry Gross on NPR. 

Rich Bennett 58:19
No. 

Ande Lyons 58:20
Although Riverside, what I use, but a lot of these platforms you use to script can turn your audio into sounding like you're on NPR. 

Rich Bennett 58:29
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 58:29
But the important thing is try it and if you like the process, if you can find ways to streamline great. If you like the whole guest and talking but anything past that, there are people who will do this for you. I have, you know, Julie DeLuca Collins and her husband Dan down in Hartford, Connecticut. They produce for a lot of people in its outstanding content and their clients are so happy or there's Christina Santos in Massachusetts. She does it as well. You know, you find someone who works for you that will be a good fit for you. Some people can, you know, do the offshore folks with someone either in, in Africa or in the Philippines. And if you can do that, that's great. But find someone to help you if the actual production part is not a fit for you. 

Rich Bennett 59:22
Something very important. Tell people with a website where they can find your for the podcast and where they can follow you. 

Ande Lyons 59:30
Thank you. I'm Andy Lyons, AT, L Y O N S I'm on all the platforms. You can find my podcast at don't be caged by your age dot com and come kick the tires at new England podcasters dot group and reach out to me. I'd be happy to give you a free ticket to one of our virtual events if you're from outside New England or if you want to make the drive to one of our monthly in-person events. Let me know. I've got a complimentary ticket for you, just say that I heard you on Rich's incredible conversation with Rich Bennett. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:07
I got to get up the boss and I've never been there. I know I know 

Ande Lyons 1:00:15
I know. It's such an easy city to walk around. It's like right 

Rich Bennett 1:00:18
Well, that's 

Ande Lyons 1:00:19
there. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:19
what straight up 95, right? 

Ande Lyons 1:00:21
Yeah, exactly. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:23
Yeah, so take me to get there. 

Ande Lyons 1:00:25
No, no, no, because it takes it takes me maybe to land traffic seven hours to get to DC. And five, maybe five and a half to fill in. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:34
Yeah, okay. Yeah, I definitely because there's years ago, and after I started my podcast, I wanted to my sister-in-law or my sister and brother-in-law had a restaurant and it was sitting empty and I put together a business plan because I wanted to turn it into a podcast studio/unique coffee bar. So I did my research to find out if there were any anywhere which there weren't except for one and guess where it was? 

Ande Lyons 1:01:06
It must have been Boston. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:07
Yes, there's, and I forget the name of it, but 

Ande Lyons 1:01:10
Was 

Rich Bennett 1:01:11
it's- 

Ande Lyons 1:01:11
it the pot garage or something like that? Podcast garage? 

Rich Bennett 1:01:14
No, I don't think... No, I don't think it was two stories. And it was a coffee bar, podcast studios, and they also had a live stage. And I think it's a garlange. God, I can't believe I forgot the name of it. 

Ande Lyons 1:01:29
Well, can I just do something real quickly, though? 

Rich Bennett 1:01:30
Sure. 

Ande Lyons 1:01:31
See this thing? 

Rich Bennett 1:01:33
joined. I love that. 

Ande Lyons 1:01:36
Someone just So we're gonna podcast just group while I was talking to you. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:40
Really? Oh! 

Ande Lyons 1:01:42
So easy it is to join and come and hop in the garden. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:45
Oh, I see now. I'm gonna have to get on there. I got to check 

Ande Lyons 1:01:49
And 

Rich Bennett 1:01:49
it out. Man. 

Ande Lyons 1:01:50
I'm so excited because you know, we've got so many fun things coming on. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:53
Oh, God. All right. So Andy, is there anything you would like to add before I get to my last question? 

Ande Lyons 1:02:01
Listen, I have enjoyed every minute of this conversation. I feel like you and I have just been hanging out at one of my events, having a side conversation about podcasting. And to, you know, listener who's tuning in. Wow, what a gift to be with Rich, right? To have this time with Rich. It's so wonderful and I'm so happy that you tuned in and I'm grateful that we're all in this community together. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:26
And the door is always open. I, because well, you know, podcast is always changing. And I love talking to other podcasters because I learn more too. Even though I've been doing this for over 10 years, I still learn stuff. 

Ande Lyons 1:02:40
Oh, me too. It's amazing. And a lot of times you might not be ready to do something, right? And then all of a sudden you hear someone's doing this and they're doing that like, oh, maybe I can do that. You know, I heard about that 10 years 

Rich Bennett 1:02:54
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 1:02:54
ago, but you know what now that's a fit for me. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:58
There you never know. I just... 

Ande Lyons 1:02:59
And those who are aging, right? You might want to be going into a new industry, like I did in the pro-aging. What you do is you set up your podcast and you start interviewing people in that industry. And all of a sudden now you're what we call just in time learning. You're getting all the great information about your industry from experts who are seasoned in that industry and now you become an expert and now it's easier to transition into that new industry. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:25
And I'll be honest with you some of my most listened to episodes are with people that are in their 60s 70s or like I mentioned before the one lady that's 101. You know it's, the wiser people, can I 

Ande Lyons 1:03:42
that's 

Rich Bennett 1:03:42
say that? 

Ande Lyons 1:03:42
why 

Rich Bennett 1:03:42
I just said it. 

Ande Lyons 1:03:44
I interviewed this wonderful woman. She used to have a radio show on WNYC in New York City. She said you know what, I wake up some days and I go, wait, what, I'm 79? Like, I can't believe this is 79. You know, it's a privilege and a gift to age. And I 

Rich Bennett 1:04:03
Yeah. 

Ande Lyons 1:04:03
often tell folks, when you're at 65, you've made it this far highly likely if you stay active, you will live another 20 years. So think about all that you did at the last 20 years. And you're just going to manage your energy portfolio differently going forward 20 years. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:22
Live life because it goes by really as we get older, seems like it goes faster. 

Ande Lyons 1:04:27
Um, 

Rich Bennett 1:04:27
best. Might 

Ande Lyons 1:04:27
Red, you're 

Rich Bennett 1:04:28
be 

Ande Lyons 1:04:28
the 

Rich Bennett 1:04:28
the kids that do that to us. 

Ande Lyons 1:04:31
Oh yeah. Well, when I see me, someone who didn't have kids, I go, no one, do you look so good? 

Rich Bennett 1:04:38
All right, so I need you to pick a number between one and 

Ande Lyons 1:04:43
five. Oh my gosh, five. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:46
Five. Okay, we're gonna see if this aligns with what we've been talking about. All right, so number five, now pick a number between 81 and 100. 

Ande Lyons 1:04:56
88. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:59
Oh wow. That's a good question. If you could write a letter to your future self, what would you remind them of? 

Ande Lyons 1:05:10
What would I remind them of? 

Rich Bennett 1:05:11
Yeah, yourself. 

Ande Lyons 1:05:14
If I wrote a letter to my future self, I would remind them of how healthy, and vibrant, and delicious it felt at this age. And all right, that is just such to my future self. And that to keep glowing no matter what, think of Irish, Irish lapel, a, a, a fell who didn't become a hit until she was in her 80s. There's no stopping until I decide to stop. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:46
I love that. I love that. Andy, I want to thank you so much. It's been an honor. Those of you listening, don't forget, check out, don't be caged by your age. And I'll have all the links on everything into show notes in case you forget where to go too. So this way you can find it very easily. Andy, thank you so much. 

Ande Lyons 1:06:07
I'll reach you a phenomenal host, I am so blessed to have had this time with you. You make it very easy for your guests. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:15
Oh, thank you. one of the biggest takeaways for me from this conversation is that age isn't the thing holding people back. It's the belief about age and what Andy shared today is something I think all of us need to hear no matter where we are in life whether you're 25, 45 or 75, you're not done, you're not behind and you're definitely not out of time. If anything you're just getting to a place where you experience your stories and everything you've learned actually start to matter even more. I love the way she said about staying engaged, staying connected and continuing to grow because we can stop doing that that's when you really start to fade not because of age but because you've decided you're done and I don't think any of us are meant to be done until we're truly done. So maybe the real question to take away from this episode is simple what's something you've been putting off because you thought it was too late and what would happen if you decide it it's not. Make sure you check out Andy Lines in her podcast don't be caged by your age. I'll have all the links in the show notes so you can connect with her, learn from her and maybe even be inspired to take the next step in your own life and as always I'd love to hear from you. What stood out to you in this conversation? What's something you're ready to start or restart? Some email message leave a comment and let's keep this conversation going. Until next time, live your life with purpose, stay connected and never ever let yourself be caged by anything including your age.