Building Community After Divorce with Bethany, Hillary & Friends

Fireworks, Freedom, and the Founding Fathers
Conversations with Rich Bennett
Rich Bennett

Wendy & Rich 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared a episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we've shared laughs, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios Harford County Living Presence conversations with Rich Bennett. 

No no no, it's not who it is. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
I have two returning guest Hillary 

Matt 1:03
Beth 

Rich Bennett 1:03
and we're just gonna be talking to find out what's going on because when you guys came on the first time you had just started it. Well maybe a couple for a couple of months you had sincerely divorced 

Hillary Livingston 1:21
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:21
someone. 

Hillary Livingston 1:22
it was almost a year. Almost a year. 

Rich Bennett 1:24
yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 1:24
Yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:24
All right. But now your just the name is getting 

Hillary Livingston 1:28
out there. 

Bethany Pace 1:29
Everywhere. 

Rich Bennett 1:33
Radio probably, 

Bethany Pace 1:34
Podcast 

Rich Bennett 1:35
podcast. 

Bethany Pace 1:35
You 

Rich Bennett 1:36
probably got Brad Pitt or 

Matt 1:38
people. 

Rich Bennett 1:38
some other 

Hillary Livingston 1:41
If they are, let me 

Bethany Pace 1:42
the I know we 

Rich Bennett 1:42
know. To join 

Hillary Livingston 1:43
do have a reality star. Oh, we do have a 

Bethany Pace 1:46
star, 

Hillary Livingston 1:46
reality 

Bethany Pace 1:46
a couple of 

Hillary Livingston 1:46
stars. 

Bethany Pace 1:47
reality 

Rich Bennett 1:47
Really? 

Bethany Pace 1:48
Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 1:49
Jack Jack's Taylor. 

Rich Bennett 1:50
Huh? 

Morgan 1:51
Oh, who's 

Rich Bennett 1:53
that? 

Bethany Pace 1:56
Yeah, part of the Vanderpump rules. 

Morgan 1:59
Oh, that 

Rich Bennett 2:00
one. Okay. 

Bethany Pace 2:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 2:02
had to 

Rich Bennett 2:02
yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 2:02
Google him, 

Morgan 2:03
I 

Hillary Livingston 2:03
but 

Morgan 2:04
sing it every day. 

Hillary Livingston 2:05
Oh, oh, no. 

Bethany Pace 2:07
In a dance mom. 

Hillary Livingston 2:08
Oh, yeah, dance. 

Morgan 2:10
which 

Bethany Pace 2:10
We don't like, 

Morgan 2:11
one? 

Rich Bennett 2:11
A danceman from a 

Bethany Pace 2:13
dance mom follows us. 

Morgan 2:14
My kids are obsessed with that show. 

Bethany Pace 2:17
Really? We can someone text. Someone had to let us know because we honestly, we didn't know, we're not, we're not big reality TV watchers. So that's part part of the problem. But other people that we know, we're like, have seen this and they bring it to our attention and we're, you know, I mean, we're very humbled by it, you know, but it's just glad it can be a resource. I think it just goes to like the universality of what we're 

Hillary Livingston 2:41
all trying to 

Bethany Pace 2:41
do by re-frame the narrative. 

Rich Bennett 2:44
Does reality show about dance moms? 

Morgan 2:47
Oh my gosh, 

Rich Bennett 2:48
yes. 

Morgan 2:48
yes, 

Rich Bennett 2:49
What 

Bethany Pace 2:49
it's, 

Rich Bennett 2:49
the hell? 

Bethany Pace 2:50
I like, it's been around a long time. 

Rich Bennett 2:53
No, I know I don't watch TV. And nevermind. 

Bethany Pace 2:58
wanna 

Rich Bennett 2:58
I only know what I'm trying to know what it is about dance moms. 

Bethany Pace 3:02
Because it's like a subculture in and of itself. You know, like having a mom, like being a mom or even a dad. I mean, could be dance dads, really. It's like dance parents. 

Rich Bennett 3:11
Right? 

Bethany Pace 3:12
You know, because if your kid is like a competitive dance environment, meaning not just a recreational class for fun, but like really preparing them for potentially being professional dancers. 

Rich Bennett 3:24
There's 

Bethany Pace 3:24
a ton of competitions, there's costumes, there's makeup, there's 

Hillary Livingston 3:28
solo 

Bethany Pace 3:31
dances, choreography. You know, who gets more time? Who's positioned where? Like there's just so many nuances and some people get really like wrapped up in it because in their minds the stakes are super high. And maybe they are really super high. I was only like an adjacent dance mom. 

Rich Bennett 3:47
Right, 

Bethany Pace 3:48
So, 

Rich Bennett 3:48
right. 

Bethany Pace 3:48
you know, but I could see how it would, it could become that way. You know, with so competitions, people are traveling. They drive across country to go to competitions, livestream 

Rich Bennett 3:58
The 

Bethany Pace 3:58
competitions. 

Rich Bennett 3:59
pageants, I guess. 

Bethany Pace 4:00
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 4:01
Wow. 

Morgan 4:02
We had the gymnastics moms, that was the gym moms. 

Rich Bennett 4:05
Here's a reality show for everything nowadays, isn't there? 

Bethany Pace 4:08
The 

Rich Bennett 4:09
last thing I remember, close to what you're saying with dance moms, was the honey booboo thing. 

Hillary Livingston 4:14
Oh my gosh. I forgot about honey booboo. 

Morgan 4:16
Did 

Bethany Pace 4:17
she dance? Why was 

Rich Bennett 4:19
She 

Bethany Pace 4:20
she 

Rich Bennett 4:20
was 

Bethany Pace 4:20
relevant? 

Rich Bennett 4:20
always in the pageants. 

Bethany Pace 4:22
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 4:24
He did when she was really little. That's how I think that's how they 

Rich Bennett 4:28
That's 

Hillary Livingston 4:29
discovered 

Rich Bennett 4:29
how it's, 

Hillary Livingston 4:29
her, right? 

Rich Bennett 4:30
yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 4:30
Through the pageants. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 4:34
Alright, so, if my niece is listening to this, please don't even think about trying to get on dance moms because you'll just ruin my niece and that better. My, your daughter. No, mate. 

Morgan 4:46
Crazy. 

Matt 4:48
I 

Rich Bennett 4:49
don't get it. Maybe you guys should start a reality show. 

Morgan 4:55
I'm up. 

Bethany Pace 4:56
We're, we are game. We are completely game, if anyone's 

Morgan 4:59
The 

Bethany Pace 5:00
listening. 

Morgan 5:00
real. Yeah. We're not housewives. D' 坂 

Hillary Livingston 5:04
is D' 坂 ex-balzes. 

Rich Bennett 5:06
Yeah, yeah, 

Bethany Pace 5:08
yeah. Right. 

Rich Bennett 5:09
I 

Hillary Livingston 5:09
we have talked about like, how cool it would be to have like a mom, you know, I guess you could have a dad, you know, too, right? Like, just, uh, 

Morgan 5:17
mean, 

Hillary Livingston 5:18
yeah, mom, you know, like, just everybody buys a townhouse and like one strip and like, you just, like, it's like your village, you just like, help you 

Morgan 5:25
that's what 

Rich Bennett 5:26
a mom, what? 

Hillary Livingston 5:27
Like 

Matt 5:27
a commune, but a mom 

Hillary Livingston 5:29
yeah, 

Morgan 5:29
yeah, just a bunch of single moms. We all live on the same piece of land, we got our different little houses 

Rich Bennett 5:34
so a call. 

Morgan 5:36
and kinda 

Rich Bennett 5:37
Yeah, basically, 

Morgan 5:39
but 

Hillary Livingston 5:41
yeah, and we get to like, help each other because there's so much support in community, open, 

Bethany Pace 5:47
yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 5:47
support in community. 

Rich Bennett 5:48
All right. You and Morgan have known each other for a while, having 

Morgan 5:52
a 

Rich Bennett 5:52
you 

Morgan 5:52
little bit, 

Hillary Livingston 5:53
like over a year. 

Rich Bennett 5:55
That's it. 

Hillary Livingston 5:55
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 5:56
really? 

Hillary Livingston 5:56
really, 

Rich Bennett 5:57
Oh 

Matt 5:57
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 5:57
God, this is scary. 

Hillary Livingston 5:58
Yeah, so Morgan is actually, okay, so, when Bethany has started, 

Matt 6:02
I think we talk about it a 

Hillary Livingston 6:03
bit on the last podcast. When her and I started and we were like, let's just start a support group and see what happens. We, the first thing, we, one of the first things that we did was host a like, navigating the holidays webinar, and we 

Rich Bennett 6:17
little 

Bethany Pace 6:17
like. 

Hillary Livingston 6:17
just It's true. You know, we didn't know what we were doing. We just posted it on meetup and we were sitting in her kitchen, like ready to do it because we had notes and like, we had all these like, you know, these like research points that we were going to share and we're like, it's okay, just one person shows up and that one person was Morgan. 

Rich Bennett 6:39
Wow. 

Hillary Livingston 6:41
Yeah. Yeah. Share your perspective. Morgan. 

Morgan 6:44
My perspective. 

So, my therapist had seen it in like, Bella, or moms, or something and 

Hillary Livingston 6:53
Yeah. 

Morgan 6:53
she sent it to me. She's like, look at this. You should join. I don't really know a lot of people around here and I was like, yeah, no, that's like not my thing. Like, no. But I, she's like, you don't have to talk. Just, you know, just be a silent listener. And I was like, okay, I'll do it to make you happy. So I signed on, uh, fashionally late, like, five minutes late on purpose because I was like, I don't want to be the first person there. I don't want to have to like interact with anybody if I'm the first person there. Like, I want to go in. 

Rich Bennett 7:26
You don't want to look like you're. 

Morgan 7:27
I just want to exactly I just want to sneak in and be silent. So I sign on five minutes late. And I'm like, this is perfect. It's fine. I'm just, you know, I'm so brave. And 

Bethany Pace 7:41
I 

Morgan 7:43
get on my camera's not on and it's just Hillary and Bethany. And I'm like, 

Bethany Pace 7:50
like eager beavers. 

Hillary Livingston 7:51
And 

Bethany Pace 7:51
We're 

Hillary Livingston 7:51
we're 

Bethany Pace 7:51
like. 

Morgan 7:56
I was supposed to be on here with other 

Hillary Livingston 7:59
people, right, 

Morgan 8:00
we're gonna talk and not me. So now I'm gonna like have to turn my camera on and interact. but it ended up being 

Rich Bennett 8:07
Jennifer, 

Morgan 8:08
great. I don't 

Hillary Livingston 8:09
in. I 

Morgan 8:09
know what 

Hillary Livingston 8:09
know what's 

Morgan 8:10
I 

Hillary Livingston 8:10
funny. 

Morgan 8:10
was 

Hillary Livingston 8:10
I 

Morgan 8:10
getting 

Hillary Livingston 8:10
remember when she 

Morgan 8:10
myself 

Hillary Livingston 8:11
turned our camera on. We were like. 

okay though, we're going to be so 

Morgan 8:16
It's 

Hillary Livingston 8:16
enthusiastic. Yeah, I want 

Bethany Pace 8:18
to stay free. 

Morgan 8:20
Yeah, I mean here I am. 

Bethany Pace 8:22
Yeah, you're you're later. 

Matt 8:23
Now 

Bethany Pace 8:24
you want to know who's known each other a long time. Like 

Rich Bennett 8:26
Matt and Matt. 

Hillary Livingston 8:27
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 8:28
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 8:28
yeah. Yeah, Matt and I were 

Bethany Pace 8:29
before. 

Rich Bennett 8:29
talking You said he worked with 

Matt 8:32
you, 

Rich Bennett 8:34
now 

Matt 8:35
but 

Rich Bennett 8:35
how did the Bethany convince you when they come into the group? Okay. 

Hillary Livingston 8:40
Yes. Very convincing. 

Matt 8:42
There's very convincing. Hey, you want to come sure there's alcohol. 

Rich Bennett 8:47
I 

Matt 8:47
was like, sure, I'll be we've been on each other for what 

Bethany Pace 8:50
so 

Matt 8:51
12 years, 11, yeah, 

Bethany Pace 8:52
12 years, yeah, 12, 13, 

Rich Bennett 8:53
yeah, wow. 

Bethany Pace 8:54
Yeah, 

Matt 8:54
so long time. I was just coming out of my or we got remarried when I met you. and then we worked together for almost nine years 

Bethany Pace 9:09
with -- Yeah, yeah, well, we did -- and I think we really bonded us together because it's like, beyond just, like, working together because we were in different, like, divisions, but we were both in a leadership class, um, at the university that prepares, like, young leaders, um, and the class met, like, over the course of, uh, academic year, 

Matt 9:26
uh-huh. 

Bethany Pace 9:27
Um, and we met, like, once a month and we had, like, overnight retreats sort of, like, activities, but 

Rich Bennett 9:32
Right. 

Bethany Pace 9:32
we learned all about, like, the, the interworkings of the university and how to lead and we learn from other leaders and so on and so forth. So we spent a lot of time together, like, in that setting, um, and that really, you know, endeared me to Matt, and, you know, 

Matt 9:46
thank 

Bethany Pace 9:46
Being 

Matt 9:46
you for being 

Bethany Pace 9:47
so 

Matt 9:47
so, 

Bethany Pace 9:47
fun and just smart, and, you know, he's just this, he's just an assuming leader, um, that, that really cares deeply for his colleagues, and, and he wants us all to do well. 

Rich Bennett 9:59
uh, yeah. 

Matt 9:59
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 9:59
Um, and he's, and he's very open about that, like, he doesn't hide that behind, you know, it's like, you can tell it's into up front value of his, um, to, to, to give it to you straight, but also to be very supportive of your work and, uh, 

Matt 10:15
thank you. 

Hillary Livingston 10:16
I agree with that. 

Rich Bennett 10:19
He actually asked me a question out there, and I cannot remember probably because I'm so damn old, you know, but. 

Hillary Livingston 10:27
I didn't say. 

Rich Bennett 10:28
Forget things. How is it that we ended up meeting? 

Matt 10:33
Yeah, I did ask. 

Bethany Pace 10:35
I sent you an email. I'm always, I'm the one, like, often behind the scenes, like, 

Rich Bennett 10:39
Right. 

Bethany Pace 10:39
Hillary calls me Norm, like, from cheers. Like, nobody 

Hillary Livingston 10:44
she doesn't know. 

Bethany Pace 10:45
Yeah. Well, or there's no one I will reach out. I, I, well, I have no fear about reaching out. 

Rich Bennett 10:49
And, and 

Bethany Pace 10:51
so I can't right now, and I, I can't remember who told me, but someone was like, you know, have you ever heard of the rich, have you ever heard a rich Bennett and his podcast? I was like, no. 

Rich Bennett 11:01
So it was for the podcast, not Hartford County living, 

Bethany Pace 11:03
right? It was for the podcast. And so then I went, I found the form and I, you know, like, wrote in, and that's, and that's how that's how we met. 

Rich Bennett 11:11
Okay. 

Hillary Livingston 11:11
I 

Bethany Pace 11:11
think it was after a Hartford's heart magazine. 

Hillary Livingston 11:13
Yeah. Yeah. That was in August of last year. 

Bethany Pace 11:16
One mentioned it and, uh, we were like, let's give it a go, because we want to, like, we know that this is part of outreach. 

Rich Bennett 11:22
Right. 

Matt 11:23
In the cool thing about this is that, you know, I'm not going to speak to you, but Morgan met them because of divorce. 

Rich Bennett 11:29
And, 

Matt 11:29
Right. 

Rich Bennett 11:29
yeah. Right. 

Matt 11:29
And I've known them, and now divorce is like folded into it. 

Rich Bennett 11:34
Mm-hmm. 

Matt 11:34
So no matter what angle you look at it, it's going to touch somebody in some way the work that they do. So it's been, like, for now, like, I mean, we were just talking before. I was, I've been divorced, remarried, and now I'm going through another divorce. Um, so it's kind of nice to, like, come into this, but also having the wisdom of 16 years ago getting divorced and not falling into different. 

Rich Bennett 11:59
Right. Like, 

Matt 12:00
what happened back then and comparing it to now and moving through it now. So talking to different people at the events that they have or WebEx or Zoom or whatever you want to call it, it's good because the perspectives are different. 

Bethany Pace 12:14
and, 

Matt 12:15
I 

Bethany Pace 12:15
and I was going to say, like, Matt also because he, when I 

Matt 12:19
met 

Bethany Pace 12:19
met 

Matt 12:20
him, 

Bethany Pace 12:20
him, he was had already been divorced, and he was, He and I have kids, similar age, our oldest. 

Rich Bennett 12:26
Mike. 

Bethany Pace 12:26
Yeah, we have kids, similar ages. 

Matt 12:28
Cause we're really old. 

Bethany Pace 12:29
Because we're, 

Matt 12:30
we're supporting them more than 

Bethany Pace 12:30
I mean, 

Matt 12:31
she won't eat anybody over 

Bethany Pace 12:33
50. 

Matt 12:33
I just broke that 

Rich Bennett 12:34
Oh no, 

Matt 12:34
being 52. Like, 

Rich Bennett 12:36
I 

Matt 12:36
it's, 

Rich Bennett 12:36
remember Hillary said anybody over 45 is, 

Matt 12:38
well, that's bad too. Like, 

Rich Bennett 12:39
yeah, it's our Hillary's. 

Matt 12:42
Thanks. I think 

Hillary Livingston 12:43
I'm a good 

Bethany Pace 12:44
guy. You are the, 

Matt 12:46
okay. Thanks. 

Bethany Pace 12:46
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 12:47
Yeah. Yes. 

Bethany Pace 12:47
You're high, 

Matt 12:47
but not for the people under, 

Bethany Pace 12:49
right. Right. Exactly. 

Matt 12:50
So, so you're 

Morgan 12:50
I 

Matt 12:50
good. 

Morgan 12:51
act like I'm like 25 still. 

Matt 12:53
So 

Bethany Pace 12:53
we, 

Rich Bennett 12:53
well, maybe Matt does too. Young 

Hillary Livingston 12:58
it hard. 

Bethany Pace 13:00
like if we didn't have a work history, 

Rich Bennett 13:02
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 13:02
like, you know, it's like it's too complicated. It doesn't. 

Matt 13:04
No, it's not. 

Bethany Pace 13:07
But 

Matt 13:07
but 

Bethany Pace 13:07
I 

Matt 13:07
I 

Bethany Pace 13:07
was 

Matt 13:07
was. 

Bethany Pace 13:07
going to say, um, that, um, Matt, because he was navigating like single parenthood when I met him, you know, when I started to really contemplate filing for divorce myself in 2021, you, you probably don't even know that's something I ever told you. But he was like one of the models in my mind for like, okay, this 

Matt 13:28
Degress, 

Bethany Pace 13:28
is someone I know who's divorced. 

Rich Bennett 13:30
Right. 

Bethany Pace 13:30
and who's been really involved and engaged parent and he's like making it work somehow. We had never really had a conversation about it, but again, Matt is just a very upfront what you see what you get is, you know, is who he is. 

Matt 13:43
So, 

Bethany Pace 13:43
know, 

Matt 13:43
you 

Bethany Pace 13:43
parts of his life had been shared and I was like, okay, like other people are doing it because that I think is also one of the big fears when you think that you're at the end of this relationship is like, what is this even going to look like? 

Rich Bennett 13:56
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 13:56
so having examples of what that is and really good examples and then when I finally did, you know, make the decision and shared it with Matt. I mean, he just, you know, gave me the most beautiful response because, you know, he, you know, he knows. And he's always like that, like other adversities that I've faced. He's, you know, he knows the right thing to say, but it was like, I just thought I could like inhale and, you know, exhale and to him because, you know, he really was there for me and he was 

Rich Bennett 14:26
And 

Bethany Pace 14:27
going to get it, you know, and yeah, so it's been it's been a journey and divorce is interesting, how it just leaves its way through existing friendships or new friendships, you know, to your point. 

Rich Bennett 14:38
All right. So Morgan, are you happy that you were five minutes late, five minutes late for that first one? 

Morgan 14:46
I guess I mean, 

Rich Bennett 14:48
how many more have you been to since then? 

Morgan 14:51
A lot, right? 

Hillary Livingston 14:53
She's 

Morgan 14:54
Yes, no, a 

Bethany Pace 14:55
like 

Morgan 14:55
lot. I've met a 

Bethany Pace 14:56
status. 

Morgan 14:56
ton 

Hillary Livingston 14:56
yeah. 

Morgan 14:56
of, 

Hillary Livingston 14:56
She's 

Bethany Pace 14:58
OG groupstats. 

Rich Bennett 14:58
So 

Morgan 14:59
I did the same kind of weird thing with the first 

Bethany Pace 15:01
and 

Morgan 15:02
I don't think you've ever heard this story. You were meeting at what was it? Is it evil? Is that 

Bethany Pace 15:08
Is 

Hillary Livingston 15:09
the 

Bethany Pace 15:09
evil? Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 15:09
yeah, 

Bethany Pace 15:10
yeah, or parents 

Morgan 15:10
yeah. 

Bethany Pace 15:10
or Zebald. Yeah, 

Morgan 15:11
yeah, and I was like, I don't know, maybe I'll go. Maybe I won't. I convinced myself I'm like, I'll get a coffee and I'll check out the scene. Nobody will know who I am. And if it like feels weird, I'll just leave. So I locked in. It didn't feel weird, but I like saw y'all over there sitting in the corner. And I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it today. So I got my coffee and I left. 

Matt 15:39
No, 

Hillary Livingston 15:39
I don't 

Morgan 15:40
know. And then I was like a couple weeks later, you had-- 

Bethany Pace 15:43
I never wanted 

Morgan 15:43
coffee coffee coffee and I was like, okay, I'm going to do it this time. I'm going to actually go in. 

Hillary Livingston 15:49
I think I remember that because I saw you in line and I was like, Morgan and like you weren't escaping that one. 

Morgan 15:54
No, 

Bethany Pace 15:55
Coffee coffee, yeah, 

Matt 15:56
yeah, yeah, 

Morgan 15:58
I 

Bethany Pace 15:58
yeah. Yeah. 

Morgan 15:59
had like dipped my toe in the water. 

Bethany Pace 16:01
that's so funny, but we had someone else that was the just one that 

Hillary Livingston 16:04
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 16:04
day. Yeah, you know, when you saw us, I don't know if it was just the two of us probably. 

Morgan 16:08
And no, somebody else was 

Bethany Pace 16:09
Okay, 

Morgan 16:09
definitely there. 

Bethany Pace 16:11
and that person was the only one that we had. And again, that's why our ethos 

Rich Bennett 16:15
Right. 

Bethany Pace 16:16
is really just one. It's like if one person comes, we know that we are doing what we're meant to be doing. You know, that matters to that person. 

Rich Bennett 16:24
And for those of you listening, apparently being laid as a thing of Morgan's because we were waiting for 15 minutes for her to get here before we started. 

Hillary Livingston 16:32
Oh, it wasn't 15 minutes. It was like-- 

I got you. 

Morgan 16:39
Sorry, I'm a remote worker. And you know, at the last minute, I was told I had to be at the hospital at 9 a. m., which was a whole task in and of itself dealing with my kids. 

Bethany Pace 16:49
And she's a data guru. 

Hillary Livingston 16:51
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 16:52
like, 

Rich Bennett 16:52
Oh, 

Morgan 16:52
I got 

Bethany Pace 16:52
yeah. 

Morgan 16:53
charts and graphs. So, you know, you don't want to divorce 

Bethany Pace 16:55
in 

Morgan 16:55
me 

Bethany Pace 16:56
numbers. 

Rich Bennett 16:57
Women. What did you say? 

Matt 17:00
Cell 

Bethany Pace 17:00
woman. Yes. 

Hillary Livingston 17:02
Trans-verbal skills. 

Morgan 17:04
Exactly. Trans-verbal skills. I'm like, I got a chart. I got a graph for that. 

Hillary Livingston 17:08
I got 

Bethany Pace 17:08
receive 

Morgan 17:11
data. 

Rich Bennett 17:11
Any 

Matt 17:14
I have data. 

Rich Bennett 17:15
guys. Any guys, if you 

Matt 17:16
have-- 

Rich Bennett 17:17
I got a spreadsheet on that guy. 

Bethany Pace 17:23
Morgan, 

Hillary Livingston 17:24
if we ever ask you what's your sign? 

Morgan 17:28
Aries. 

Bethany Pace 17:31
I just had a 

Morgan 17:32
birthday. I did. 

Bethany Pace 17:32
Do we 

Morgan 17:32
that? 

Bethany Pace 17:32
miss 

Morgan 17:33
Last Thursday? 

Bethany Pace 17:35
that track. Oh, happy, believe 

Morgan 17:37
In 

Bethany Pace 17:37
it, fiery. 

Rich Bennett 17:38
Wait, why did you ask her that? 

Hillary Livingston 17:40
I just feel like that was like very much 

baffling. 

Rich Bennett 17:48
Mm. 

Bethany Pace 17:48
That's not a sign, you know. 

I can't 

Hillary Livingston 17:55
that. Oh, what are 

Rich Bennett 17:55
do 

Hillary Livingston 17:56
you? 

Rich Bennett 17:57
What? 

Bethany Pace 17:57
Your sign. 

Rich Bennett 17:58
I'm afraid to say. 

Matt 18:00
Like a Leo or something. 

Rich Bennett 18:01
No, Gemini. 

Hillary Livingston 18:03
What? ahead. 

Rich Bennett 18:05
Go 

Hillary Livingston 18:05
Like, no, I mean, I've gotten a little really into 

Rich Bennett 18:10
it. Okay. as you know her oldest shit. 

Hillary Livingston 18:14
No, what I have Gemini, and I'm the youngest one 

Bethany Pace 18:17
here. 

Hillary Livingston 18:19
I'm Damn Brought it up had to correct. Yeah in my chart and I have I'm a Gemini moon and a Gemini rising We're adaptable. That means like we can like shift and adapt a lot of ways 

Rich Bennett 18:34
Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 18:35
and we're airy and it's an air sign so we can I mean Epiphany was like I can I can go 

Morgan 18:43
know all about 

Bethany Pace 18:44
Yeah, 

Morgan 18:44
this. 

Bethany Pace 18:44
you 

Morgan 18:44
She's like ready to whip out those cards, and 

Bethany Pace 18:47
She's got like several sets 

Matt 18:48
you which 

Rich Bennett 18:49
really crystals 

Morgan 18:51
It 

Hillary Livingston 18:52
was it's a it's a post-averse Hobby of mine. 

Bethany Pace 18:55
We called being woo-woo. 

Morgan 18:57
Yes, 

Rich Bennett 18:57
yeah, 

Morgan 18:57
you 

Rich Bennett 18:57
yeah 

Morgan 18:57
have To the woo-woo thing. I went to a couple weeks 

Hillary Livingston 19:01
woman in the woods. Was that 

Morgan 19:03
it? With Emily the soul 

Hillary Livingston 19:06
okay 

Morgan 19:06
lift 

Rich Bennett 19:07
Eight off 

Morgan 19:08
Yes, 

Rich Bennett 19:09
Yeah, oh, 

Morgan 19:09
you know Emily. 

Rich Bennett 19:10
yeah, yeah. Emily's been on here before. 

Morgan 19:11
awesome. 

Rich Bennett 19:11
She's 

Morgan 19:12
I 

Hillary Livingston 19:12
Okay, 

Morgan 19:12
got 

Bethany Pace 19:13
I 

Morgan 19:13
met her through brave 

Rich Bennett 19:14
mm-hmm 

Morgan 19:15
and we went to this. 

Hillary Livingston 19:16
Oh, you know, I'm down 

Morgan 19:18
little I can't remember what's called nourishing connect is that dust 

Hillary Livingston 19:21
Yeah, that's 

Morgan 19:22
Once a month and we 

Rich Bennett 19:22
mm-hmm. 

Morgan 19:23
were We were manifesting. 

Hillary Livingston 19:25
Yeah 

Rich Bennett 19:27
Saying if you would listen to the podcast you would know this because she's got a commercial on it. I'm just saying 

Morgan 19:32
Yeah, we can plug 

Rich Bennett 19:33
She 

Morgan 19:33
her. 

Matt 19:34
Sound 

Morgan 19:35
bath 

Hillary Livingston 19:35
I'll 

Morgan 19:36
I 

Hillary Livingston 19:36
remember 

Rich Bennett 19:37
took 

Hillary Livingston 19:37
that I got respect. I mean I'm receipts, you know they'll come back up 

Rich Bennett 19:41
I'm worried bag you don't keep a spreadsheet like more 

Hillary Livingston 19:44
you don't know that I didn't say anything about spreadsheets 

Matt 19:48
I'm 

Morgan 19:48
saying I 

Matt 19:48
just 

Morgan 19:49
I'm I built an app to track 

Rich Bennett 19:51
What 

Morgan 19:52
the happiness of my 

Hillary Livingston 19:53
you did? 

Morgan 19:54
Yes, literally Yes, I have 

Bethany Pace 19:57
an 

Hillary Livingston 19:57
app yeah, an actually like you built like from we ground up 

Morgan 20:00
Mean I used I don't know how anything about apps, but I used something online to help build it. It was very easy to 

Hillary Livingston 20:07
that I 

Morgan 20:07
learn 

Rich Bennett 20:08
Well, what does this have to 

Hillary Livingston 20:10
I 

Morgan 20:11
can like track 

the things that happen 

Bethany Pace 20:15
Like times 

Morgan 20:17
yeah, like it was like expenses it was like the visits like If you were late picking up or dropping off like anything that happened I got categories, you know, was this like the violation of a quarter order was this you know Amused to visit what was this and then I could graph it all right like 

Bethany Pace 20:35
Then 

Morgan 20:36
okay, you were 75 hours late this year 

Rich Bennett 20:42
I thought you met an app 

Bethany Pace 20:45
for 

Rich Bennett 20:45
to Dating so you could track to see 

Morgan 20:48
no 

Rich Bennett 20:50
like 

Morgan 20:50
Never 

Rich Bennett 20:50
all these 

Morgan 20:50
know 

Rich Bennett 20:50
weird 

Hillary Livingston 20:50
never I 

Morgan 20:51
you 

Hillary Livingston 20:51
mean, 

Morgan 20:52
I might need one 

Matt 20:53
need 

Morgan 20:53
I might 

Matt 20:54
to 

Hillary Livingston 20:54
talk to her about like 

Morgan 20:58
I might 

Hillary Livingston 20:58
She has the skills 

Bethany Pace 21:00
absolutely 

Morgan 21:02
you got to track 

Matt 21:03
it all wow 

Rich Bennett 21:07
so 

Matt 21:07
All right, 

Bethany Pace 21:07
you get 

Rich Bennett 21:08
since 

Bethany Pace 21:08
because you guys 

Rich Bennett 21:08
on a long a while ago Yeah, you had just starting it 

Bethany Pace 21:11
since 

Hillary Livingston 21:11
are 

Rich Bennett 21:11
start it Because you were still debating whether 

Hillary Livingston 21:14
it 

Rich Bennett 21:14
to make 

Hillary Livingston 21:15
I 

Rich Bennett 21:17
think I mentioned that 

Bethany Pace 21:17
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 21:19
but you're Arguing it as a business right so since that time how much has changed besides all the appearances and write-ups and everything 

Hillary Livingston 21:31
Cannot 

Rich Bennett 21:33
get your autographs when we're done by 

Bethany Pace 21:36
The bulbs were magazine article 

Hillary Livingston 21:39
You know she always 

Bethany Pace 21:40
cars. 

Hillary Livingston 21:40
has a few 

Bethany Pace 21:40
I always have a copy of It out 

Morgan 21:43
Yeah, I couldn't I couldn't find one a magazine anyway 

Bethany Pace 21:46
So I bought like 

Rich Bennett 21:47
I 

Hillary Livingston 21:47
she 

Rich Bennett 21:47
could 

Hillary Livingston 21:48
bought all of them 

Bethany Pace 21:50
You know, I think we're really like we've been working to so we've been working on 

relationships with partners, right? So one of the pieces that has always been important to us is connecting The group with resources that we need so the past year plus has been really spent developing relationships with 

Hillary Livingston 22:14
Building 

Bethany Pace 22:14
people like Matt 

Rich Bennett 22:15
more 

Bethany Pace 22:16
and Here locally, but also globally, right? So That has been very rewarding work and that gives us great insight about how to move with sincerely divorced like that's really what we pay attention to a lot Of course our own sort of inner guides because we really do like to lead from a place of authenticity But then it's like okay who are the people we're serving because that's a critical part of the work that we do and so We know from talking to them that they have needs and now we want to connect them to Resources that help meet those needs That's the thing that we want to be part of like vetting them 'cos the thing that we know is that going through divorce or just any kind of life transition... ...really truly is overwhelming and you're just trying to figure out am I gonna be able to get up and like put my, you know, clothes on properly and look decent to go conduct business or whatever I have to do with my real life... ...let alone, oh I need to find a plumber, oh I need to find this, you know, I need to find, you know, a realtor. So we've been working hard as of late to truly like vet resources, develop partnerships with those resources that allows, that brings educational content 

Rich Bennett 23:27
Right! 

Bethany Pace 23:27
to our community. So doing, like we're doing a webinar in a couple of weeks with a forensic account that's gonna be talking about how to find and get the money you deserve. Because sometimes people hide things and 

Hillary Livingston 23:41
term called marital waste 

Bethany Pace 23:44
is your ex or soon to be ex having an affair because if they're having an affair or they're spending money on that affair partner... That's 

Hillary Livingston 23:51
account 

Bethany Pace 23:51
your 

Hillary Livingston 23:52
or your shared assets. 

Bethany Pace 23:53
Exactly, that's called marital waste. So someone will find it and then right you get that back or if you own a business, right, and you want to value your business so that you know what value the other person's business so 

Rich Bennett 24:05
Right. 

Bethany Pace 24:05
you know what kind of size assets that you're dealing with. So that's what we've been like, you know, working on and tangent with again continuous community building and figuring out new ways to do that and new areas to travel like you can talk about Philly maybe. 

Hillary Livingston 24:21
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 24:22
we 

Hillary Livingston 24:22
did an event in Philly about a month ago and you know we didn't really know what to expect because we you know we just kind of picked a place at random and decided to host it there and then we and honestly we we we threw it together pretty quickly too because we decided in like February. Like let's do an event Philly in March 

Bethany Pace 24:42
and we think we can do this because we planned commencements for thousands of 

Rich Bennett 24:45
right. 

Bethany Pace 24:45
we're like an event is like no stress for us but then anyhow, and Matt drove from Baltimore 

Hillary Livingston 24:53
So 

Bethany Pace 24:53
to Philly to be there. I just want to shout him out, 

Rich Bennett 24:56
okay 

Bethany Pace 24:57
go ahead, 

Hillary Livingston 24:57
It was a nice good friend, but it was great like we we like I mean I think we had maybe like 20 or so people so it was a nice it was like a group that was it was a lot of people but it was enough that I felt like everyone was able to connect with each other and now we have this like really like cool group of people in Philly that are connected with each other now and we're like planning our next event so it's like we we have like a sincerely divorced community now like 

Rich Bennett 25:21
wow. 

Hillary Livingston 25:21
in Philly that's like you know blossoming and it's just really cool. 

Bethany Pace 25:25
I called it it's the no shame and more love party. 

Rich Bennett 25:28
Oh, I love 

Bethany Pace 25:29
do you love 

Rich Bennett 25:29
that. Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 25:29
that? And we're going to have another one at 

Hillary Livingston 25:32
that. 

Bethany Pace 25:33
Like in this area, but you know it's really just a reinforce the idea that divorce is not an is not a shameful 

Rich Bennett 25:39
Right 

Bethany Pace 25:39
experience doesn't have to be and with love and we're talking about Platonic love. You know and love for ourselves like that's what we want to see more of and so it just gives us a bigger setting to do that and bring people together that are really you know want to amplify that concept and someone also drove from Cleveland to be there. 

Matt 26:00
right. 

Bethany Pace 26:01
Yeah like 

Rich Bennett 26:02
wow 

Bethany Pace 26:02
to be there and so it was just it was just beautiful and we can't wait till the next one. 

Rich Bennett 26:07
no you guys still doing them virtually because you mentioned globally 

Hillary Livingston 26:11
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 26:11
and I'm just thinking people are really. 

Bethany Pace 26:14
So we do 

Hillary Livingston 26:14
virtual support groups twice a 

Rich Bennett 26:16
month. Oh 

Bethany Pace 26:17
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 26:17
wow. 

Bethany Pace 26:17
we up that. 

Rich Bennett 26:19
Yeah, I think we're all before it was once a 

Bethany Pace 26:21
month so doing virtual 

Hillary Livingston 26:23
groups 

Bethany Pace 26:23
support 

Hillary Livingston 26:23
twice a month. 

Bethany Pace 26:24
are great. You 

Rich Bennett 26:25
Those 

Bethany Pace 26:25
know again, 

Hillary Livingston 26:26
we have some regulars. 

Bethany Pace 26:27
we have some regulars that like we joke about getting them a punch card because they're so good, 

Hillary Livingston 26:32
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 26:33
you know. Sometimes we can have eight to ten people sometimes we have two people even if we have just one, what can it more again? We're going to do it anyway. So we still do that. 

Rich Bennett 26:44
Yes, 

Bethany Pace 26:46
exactly. 

Rich Bennett 26:47
Digging that by the time she gets here. 

Bethany Pace 26:49
then we're then we do still some in per you know some like smaller in 

Rich Bennett 26:52
Right. 

Bethany Pace 26:52
person. No shame and more love that's it. That's a big that's like balloons and 

Rich Bennett 26:57
And 

Bethany Pace 26:57
it's more of a large scale. But like we had we met up at Micho Augusto in Towson. A couple of weeks ago and we're going to meet up at 40 and you know later this month and I'm going to do some wolf stuff some 

Rich Bennett 27:10
bold. 

Hillary Livingston 27:10
Sound healing. 

Rich Bennett 27:11
Sound 

Morgan 27:12
Oh, 

Hillary Livingston 27:12
healing. 

Morgan 27:13
my gosh, it's amazing. 

Rich Bennett 27:15
Have 

Morgan 27:17
you done it? 

Bethany Pace 27:17
Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 27:19
we're going to do it again. 

Morgan 27:20
I went to one I was like enraged by everybody in everything and 

Hillary Livingston 27:26
probably not the best time to go sound. 

Morgan 27:28
Yes, I went and I was 

Hillary Livingston 27:31
like, 

Morgan 27:32
at peace, 

Bethany Pace 27:33
really. 

Morgan 27:33
And then my daughter was like, I don't know, it's wrong with me. I feel so irritated all the time. And like, I'm worried that like I'm going to ruin my friendships because I'm snapping at people. And I was like, I know just what you need. So I took her to Emily and she did it. And she was like, I feel so much better. 

Hillary Livingston 27:49
it's 

Morgan 27:49
It's 

Hillary Livingston 27:50
gets the bad energy out of your body. 

Rich Bennett 27:52
It releases it 

Hillary Livingston 27:53
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:54
may sound weird, but it releases them toxins. 

Hillary Livingston 27:56
Yes. 

Matt 27:57
And that's the thing. I mean, I think taking care of yourself is one of the 

Rich Bennett 28:00
things. 

Matt 28:01
And people forget to do that, especially if you have kids. 

Hillary Livingston 28:04
Yes. 

Matt 28:05
I think the same before that I was a single dad. I supposedly had 50, 50 custody every other week. And then after a year. So I went to 75 25 and then I wound up almost with full custody. 

But I was always focused on 

Rich Bennett 28:20
him. Right. 

Matt 28:21
then I never took care of myself. And then you would explode or you would, you know, break down or collapse or whatever it is. And so doing those things that are amazing, you know, the hikes that whatever it is, the social groups. These are the things to, you have to fill You have to figure out who you are again 

Hillary Livingston 28:41
And 

Matt 28:41
because you did marriage the wrong way the first time. Okay. And you lost yourself. And so how do you fill yourself up again with who you are. And 

Rich Bennett 28:52
Yeah. 

Matt 28:52
it's finding the the hike, the person, the friend, the platonic love, the whatever it is. That those are the important things because if you're not doing that you're just going to keep crashing. You're going to keep getting into a wrong relationship again. You're going to be in a relationship with the wrong reason again. 

Bethany Pace 29:12
And it's like sustaining that to you. Right. Like it's not like really a 

Matt 29:15
fine night 

Bethany Pace 29:16
journey. Like, I don't think you were implying that it was fine night, but keeping that a priority. 

Matt 29:22
It is hard. Some 

Bethany Pace 29:23
people think, oh, I'm putting myself first and then you get to where you meet someone or you get to a point where now you're consumed by something else. And you're not doing the maintenance, right? Like the maintenance required on your car. The community, this kind of community is, is what we believe is like life maintenance really, you know, being a part of it. It's beyond this like some finite period of I'm navigating my divorce. This is like a life maintenance. 

Matt 29:51
I think the key for me that I didn't do last time that I'm doing this time is therapy. I mean, it's extremely important and I'm speaking on behalf of men because guys just don't want to do it. 

No, I'm serious and I have a Masters in counseling and I believe in it. I have this rough outside shell, but inside like I believe it truly 

Rich Bennett 30:17
And 

Matt 30:17
works. So I'm going through it now and I go weekly and even if it's you know, it's person centered. So it's just tempting or if it's one time you switch to behavioral. It's time to, you know, do these 

Rich Bennett 30:31
actions, 

Matt 30:32
figure out what's going on. And I know the script because I am one or I was one. So even though I know it, it's still helpful because with 95% of therapy, it is just venting and 

Rich Bennett 30:46
yeah, 

Matt 30:46
someone listening to you. 5% is the work. So I think it's the it's the continued work on yourself and if you're attached to a counselor, they will call you those two weeks when you haven't been 

Rich Bennett 31:02
there. 

Matt 31:02
Hey, you forgot to work on yourself even though they don't say that. Hey, you forgot to work on yourself. And then you show up and you work on yourself and you always feel better two or three days later. I was telling Beth, I'm going through some stuff right now and I'm having some anxiety, emotional issues and stuff like that. And literally I was talking about it yesterday and my text message came up and it was the counselor and he's like the therapist and he's like, hey, when am I going to see you again. I'm like tomorrow. He's like, no, I'm on them. I'm like, okay, sounds good. So I have that to look forward to because you can only tell friends certain things. 

You know, you know, if Morgan and I were going through divorce, like, I'm going to fall into wanting to talk to her still about my problems if we're still living together and that's just not appropriate. So you're used to that. But that's giving somebody the ammunition to pull stuff out of you or to ammo for the divorce or whatever it is, you just have to stay away from those things. 

Rich Bennett 32:04
I just had a guy on, uh, that actually does that. He went through a divorce, now he's remarried, but he does the counseling for men and started a group and now he's starting a new group where it's faith-based as well, but they're doing a lot of the 

Matt 32:21
every, 

Rich Bennett 32:21
hiking and 

Bethany Pace 32:22
and 

Rich Bennett 32:23
of course I had to mention you guys, good, 

Hillary Livingston 32:25
good. No, 

Rich Bennett 32:26
I had to mention Bethany. I mentioned you both. 

Morgan 32:30
The community piece is so valuable, like as somebody that doesn't like to put myself out there, I'm so glad that I did because I would not have gotten through my divorce without everyone I met through sincerely divorced, truly, like those are the people who when I had surgery and couldn't drive. You Bethany were like, we got you, like make a sign-up genius, and I did, and people, you know, were driving me around, I had my own little driving, you know, exactly. It was 

Rich Bennett 32:58
know. 

Morgan 32:59
great, you 

Matt 32:59
Yeah, 

Morgan 33:01
and yeah, without that, like, you know, 

Hillary Livingston 33:04
and everyone is so eager to, like, help each other out in the, in the group. Like, it doesn't matter what is going on, like people just want to step up and help, because I mean we all have on the receiving end of needing help, and we know how uncomfortable that feels, and we just want, you know, the community to know that it's not, it's like an outpouring of love, it's not a burden, or it's not a, you know, and I think that's one of the beauties of, one of the beautiful things about this community. 

Bethany Pace 33:30
we see it on mine, too. Like, we went live last night and we were, we talking about the most unhinge thing that we did or thought about doing during our divorce, which it was, 

Morgan 33:43
And 

Bethany Pace 33:44
it's a great conversation. 

Hillary Livingston 33:45
Yeah, you should check out the post. 

Bethany Pace 33:46
Yeah, we posted, we posted the question yesterday morning, and got like over 100 responses, and then we went live yesterday to talk about it, but in the midst of the conversation someone said that their 

Hillary Livingston 33:56
divorce was just final yesterday, and 

Bethany Pace 34:00
she was 

Hillary Livingston 34:01
having a 

Bethany Pace 34:01
time. 

Hillary Livingston 34:01
hard 

Bethany Pace 34:02
I feel sad. At the time, she's like, I feel sad. And so, 

Hillary Livingston 34:04
was 

Bethany Pace 34:04
like, I 

Hillary Livingston 34:05
like, 

Bethany Pace 34:05
I dropped everyone on the call, like in the live drop some hearts, like show, show her that like, she's gonna make it like whatever, whatever, whatever. And everyone did, it was just like this, like, smorgasbord of hearts and like, encouraging words. And we see those comments all the time, like, conversations between people 

Rich Bennett 34:22
yeah, 

Bethany Pace 34:22
on posts, on reels. They're sharing something about themselves, and somebody else pops in and says, Hey, man, you're gonna make it, you know, like, here's what happened, 

Matt 34:31
it's, 

Bethany Pace 34:31
you know, and 

Matt 34:32
it's, it's 

Bethany Pace 34:33
honestly like, it's truly truly beautiful. Like 

Morgan 34:37
the most authentic, like genuine people that I've ever met have been through, since you're really divorced, and the people going through divorced, honestly, 

Bethany Pace 34:47
like, we've been through some shit. 

Morgan 34:48
We have then, 

Hillary Livingston 34:49
yeah, yeah. And we like see 

Morgan 34:51
my faith and humanity, 

Matt 34:54
and even, you know, I don't know if you remember our conversation the first time we met. Um, I was just 

Hillary Livingston 35:00
going 

Matt 35:01
from the tattoo to 

Rich Bennett 35:02
from, 

Matt 35:02
Paula and I'm going through, and my tattoo is about, like 

Morgan 35:07
my, yes, 

Matt 35:08
yeah, my 

Morgan 35:08
the, 

Matt 35:09
tattoo is about my last 14 years. But when I started the tattoo, I wasn't getting divorced. And the idea was being shared with my wife, and she knew that I wanted to be divorced, she wanted to be divorced, 

Rich Bennett 35:20
right? 

Matt 35:21
say anything to me. 

Morgan 35:22
She 

Matt 35:22
And 

Morgan 35:22
didn't 

Matt 35:22
continued to divorce. I continued the tattoo. And then she started having conversations about the divorce. Um, so I have this $1, 500 tattoo that's half of my arm. And it was sticking out. And Morgan was like, Oh, what's that? And I was like, well, let me tell you the story about it. And she's like, so my point of this is even across gender, um, they're supportive 

Rich Bennett 35:46
Yeah. 

Matt 35:46
because she's like, I'm all about women's rights. But that was kind of fucked up. Sorry. that this person would not say something to you about your, your tattoo and blah, blah, blah. So 

Rich Bennett 35:58
That, wow, 

Matt 35:58
it was very supportive of, of, of her. She didn't know me. 

Rich Bennett 36:03
Right. 

Matt 36:03
Right. You know, and she was okay, having that conversation. Yeah. And it made me feel comfortable at that event. And I've been coming to more and more also because of them, But it's nice that it wasn't a pickup. It wasn't anything. It was 

Rich Bennett 36:19
but right. 

Matt 36:19
more just a genuine. Like, yeah, it was nice. 

Rich Bennett 36:23
Well, it couldn't be a pickup. 

Bethany Pace 36:24
Anyway, you 

Morgan 36:24
It's gone my 

Rich Bennett 36:25
know 

Morgan 36:25
first 

Rich Bennett 36:25
your two. 

Morgan 36:25
tattoo. 

Matt 36:25
Yeah, I was 

Hillary Livingston 36:26
What? 

Matt 36:26
too old for I was too old. 

Morgan 36:27
What was it? Did I, was I telling you how I wanted to get a tattoo? 

Matt 36:30
Yeah. 

Morgan 36:30
I got it. 

Matt 36:31
You did? 

Hillary Livingston 36:31
And did you get 

Morgan 36:32
it? Like a month ago 

Hillary Livingston 36:35
was that 

Matt 36:36
I, I love it. 

Morgan 36:36
I already have an appointment for my second one is my kids knew I was getting the tattoo and they're like, is it about us? What's it about? And I was like, you'll see? No. And then they were like, it's not about us. 

Hillary Livingston 36:51
Root. 

Morgan 36:51
not, I know so they were all upset I was like 

Rich Bennett 36:53
Say did 

Morgan 36:54
fine okay I'll get another one. 

Hillary Livingston 36:56
I know is that isn't 

Morgan 36:57
Exactly. 

Hillary Livingston 36:57
that enough? 

Bethany Pace 36:58
Well that's, that should be 

Morgan 36:59
I gave you life 

Bethany Pace 37:00
yeah 

Morgan 37:00
but 

Bethany Pace 37:01
that would be a fun meetup though. I'm afraid to do it but I'm 

Rich Bennett 37:04
meet up at a 

Hillary Livingston 37:05
going to 

Rich Bennett 37:05
tattoo 

Hillary Livingston 37:05
party 

Rich Bennett 37:06
party? 

Bethany Pace 37:06
Yeah! 

Morgan 37:06
I know I'm like, 

Bethany Pace 37:07
I know you've had a 

Matt 37:08
wh-- so 

Hillary Livingston 37:08
well, 

Bethany Pace 37:09
person on your, on your podcast, 

Rich Bennett 37:11
the 

Bethany Pace 37:12
you got a few. Yeah. 

Matt 37:13
There's a tattoo appallor over in the Little River that they go to. I can't think of the name of it but the tattoo artist, her name is Rosie and it's of all women's own business. 

Rich Bennett 37:21
Right. 

Matt 37:22
Um, and you have to get buzzed in and then they all have their own private rooms and everything and it's very secure and stuff like that and it's pretty cool. But I kind of 

Hillary Livingston 37:31
I 

Matt 37:32
slid 

Hillary Livingston 37:32
kind of 

Matt 37:33
into there and I love her and she did a bunch of sessions with me. So and it's like and for me that's it and you have 

Hillary Livingston 37:39
tattooed. 

Matt 37:40
It's 

Rich Bennett 37:40
Yeah. 

Matt 37:40
therapeutic for me. So while they were 

Bethany Pace 37:42
doing this, so 

Matt 37:43
wasn't done with the 

Bethany Pace 37:45
I 

Matt 37:45
tattoo and I went and I'm like look I'm having some problems. Like we're not done with this and this is what's going on in my life and she's like well let's have a conversation about how we can change the bottom half of it and and it was just really nice. So I can get you the name of the tattoo. 

Bethany Pace 37:58
Thank you 

Matt 37:59
Her name is Rosie. 

Bethany Pace 38:00
Rosie. 

Matt 38:01
Yeah, but 

Rich Bennett 38:01
just don't if you get a tattoo you want to get rid of don't pour acid on it. 

Matt 38:05
No, no, no, no, I don't get rid of all that. 

Morgan 38:07
Oh 

Hillary Livingston 38:08
my 

Matt 38:08
god. 

Rich Bennett 38:09
Yeah, when I was into Corey didn't like it so he poured it. I mean he got rid of the tattoo. 

Hillary Livingston 38:13
like 

Morgan 38:13
And 

Hillary Livingston 38:14
part of his arm too. 

Rich Bennett 38:15
Yeah. Yeah, you have a pretty good mark there. 

Bethany Pace 38:18
people? 

Rich Bennett 38:18
Yeah, but. 

Bethany Pace 38:19
So 

Rich Bennett 38:19
So 

Bethany Pace 38:20
how 

Rich Bennett 38:20
how 

Bethany Pace 38:20
many 

Rich Bennett 38:20
many 

Bethany Pace 38:20
people are 

Hillary Livingston 38:20
actually 

Rich Bennett 38:21
now, 

Matt 38:21
grown 

Rich Bennett 38:21
do you know? 

Hillary Livingston 38:22
Across all our platforms? Well across our public platforms we have over a hundred thousand. 

Rich Bennett 38:28
What? 

Hillary Livingston 38:29
Yep. 

Bethany Pace 38:29
Actually we're 110,000. 

Hillary Livingston 38:31
Oh 

Rich Bennett 38:31
yeah. Oh on 

Bethany Pace 38:31
media. 

Rich Bennett 38:32
social 

Hillary Livingston 38:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in our inner. 

Rich Bennett 38:34
It's pretty strong though. 

Hillary Livingston 38:35
Yeah, it's a 

Bethany Pace 38:37
15 months. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 38:38
damn 

Hillary Livingston 38:39
it's crazy. And then in our we have like a private Facebook group that's more there's a lot more interaction like amongst like group members that has almost a thousand. 

Rich Bennett 38:50
So all right, so have you guys got the equipment to record virtually yet? I know you can you meet virtually but do you have the headphones and everything? 

Bethany Pace 38:59
No. 

Rich Bennett 38:59
Why not? 

Hillary Livingston 39:01
I know you did tell 

Rich Bennett 39:01
this. 

Hillary Livingston 39:01
us about 

Rich Bennett 39:02
Yeah, son. If you guys need to get on other 

Hillary Livingston 39:04
parts. 

Bethany Pace 39:05
I'm 

Rich Bennett 39:05
especially now. 

Bethany Pace 39:06
Well, I know what 

Hillary Livingston 39:07
were 

Bethany Pace 39:07
we 

Hillary Livingston 39:07
we were 

Bethany Pace 39:07
were 

Hillary Livingston 39:07
on another one. 

Rich Bennett 39:08
No, I don't mean locally. 

Bethany Pace 39:10
No, it was. 

Rich Bennett 39:11
Oh really? 

Bethany Pace 39:12
Yeah, it was it dimming the gas light. 

Morgan 39:16
Okay. 

Bethany Pace 39:16
Hey shout out friends. Dimming the gas light. Yeah, Mac and Phil. That was like a couple months ago and we talked. They they their whole platform, which is great. It's about like narcissism. And so we talked we got into like some of the the the details of of our the narcissistic aspects of our marriages. But they're great and we've been doing Instagram lives 

Hillary Livingston 39:38
Yeah, we're. 

Bethany Pace 39:39
with people. 

Hillary Livingston 39:40
yeah, we're like really pushing ourselves to be more creative with our content. 

Rich Bennett 39:45
Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 39:46
And we know that that involves video because it's not like our favorite thing. So that's 

Matt 39:51
where 

Bethany Pace 39:51
Right, but, but we're appearing on other people's channels like we're doing. And we did a live a couple 

Matt 39:57
we 

Bethany Pace 39:57
weeks 

Matt 39:57
are. 

Bethany Pace 39:57
ago, and we're doing one again with Carrie Life coach. She's she's out in North Carolina. 

Rich Bennett 40:02
Not Carrie Schmidt 

Bethany Pace 40:04
no, I don't know she's got a longer last name. Then 

Rich Bennett 40:07
Okay, 

Bethany Pace 40:07
we 

Hillary Livingston 40:08
have another live next week too with Rob, from his I 

Bethany Pace 40:13
He's 

Hillary Livingston 40:13
think. 

Bethany Pace 40:14
line sighted by divorce. 

Hillary Livingston 40:15
Yeah, he wears is he New York renuters? 

Bethany Pace 40:17
He's he's somewhere he's in New York. 

Hillary Livingston 40:18
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 40:19
okay. 

Bethany Pace 40:19
and then Dr Debbie Silver that one's coming up in June. So she reached out these people they reach out to us, you know, and ask if we want to we want to do it. So that's we're really trying to do 

Rich Bennett 40:32
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 40:32
well on those opportunities and and then moving into 

Rich Bennett 40:36
you guys you 

Morgan 40:36
I 

Rich Bennett 40:36
guys are 

Morgan 40:36
know, 

Rich Bennett 40:37
kicking 

Bethany Pace 40:37
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 40:37
it. 

Bethany Pace 40:38
thank 

Morgan 40:38
And 

Bethany Pace 40:38
you. 

Morgan 40:38
it's so helpful like you're saying connecting the community with vetted resources because one of the things I noticed. It's like you start following on social media, a couple like divorce pages. And then you get like the coaches and everybody like coming at you like the same thing, like happens when you have babies and follow the parenting pages and it's like the weight loss people are coming at you lose the baby weight, like it was the same thing. And I'm like, who are these people? It's like. Exploited feeling so it and I can see how people would fall into that trap like oh they can help me or they and then you like go to their pages and they want like a lot of money for their services. That's actually why I developed my own app because I kept seeing like a couple people like oh you need a divorce documentation court documentation and you know follow this plan or like sign up for this and I was like look I'm like I'm a pan. 200 whatever $300 for somebody else's spreadsheet like I'm a data analyst. I know spreadsheets so I started with my spreadsheet and I was like I can I can make an app. But you know like it's just 

Bethany Pace 41:49
yeah 

Morgan 41:49
it's 

Bethany Pace 41:49
it is 

Morgan 41:50
you 

Bethany Pace 41:50
because 

Morgan 41:50
know 

Bethany Pace 41:50
they're are 

Morgan 41:51
I don't know who who's really cuz I've joined like some of the webinars that people are like you're gonna learn xy and z and then I get through it and I'm like I just paid $25 and I learned like absolutely nothing. 1/2 of it was a sales pitch 

Hillary Livingston 42:04
yeah 

Morgan 42:04
like buy this 

Rich Bennett 42:04
yeah 

Morgan 42:05
buy that. 

Rich Bennett 42:05
Yeah 

Morgan 42:06
they're going through divorce like sorry divorce is expensive people don't have the extra 

Bethany Pace 42:12
and that's really like 

Morgan 42:13
cash. 

Bethany Pace 42:14
why we feel really strongly about like like off doing that not I mean doing for free why we've basically spent our savings you know to like make this happen because divorce is expensive we're not gonna charge people you know to get resources are be connected we want it to be free we want it to be accessible. 

Rich Bennett 42:32
Did you have 

Bethany Pace 42:33
Yeah exactly and so but there are accounts out there like in this divorce space that you know like we have these like trusted resources but really it's anybody can pay in to be that resource. 

Hillary Livingston 42:44
sponsor? 

Bethany Pace 42:46
Yeah they're buying ad space and they're like framing it as you know but they have like 12 realiters well that's like a Google search to me like if you're gonna give me 12 trusted people then in the same space that makes that just you're creating more work cuz now I got to go through the 12 of them you know where our model that we're working towards is we have a go to person and that that is the person we trust that is the person who we know is going to like point people in the right direction even if she's in marriage. Even if she's in Maryland but she knows people in Colorado and other places but right and there's no cost involved in us you know 

Rich Bennett 43:22
Yeah 

Bethany Pace 43:23
referring to her or anything like that or for our members because yeah a lot of people like like to pray on the vulnerability that we all experience in this you know whether it's 

Hillary Livingston 43:33
something 

Bethany Pace 43:35
else. 

Rich Bennett 43:37
I heard your stories before but both both of you uh we're start 

Bethany Pace 43:43
with 

Rich Bennett 43:44
star. Led to the divorce or some of the scary things that's happened they have towards besides the 

Matt 43:50
the 

Rich Bennett 43:50
what the hell the can't. 

Matt 43:51
Or the lead to 

Rich Bennett 43:52
yeah 

Bethany Pace 43:53
I. 

Morgan 43:54
could be a whole podcast 

Matt 43:56
It's 

Morgan 43:56
and it's in and of 

Bethany Pace 43:57
they 

Morgan 43:57
it 

Bethany Pace 43:57
both 

Morgan 43:57
sells 

Bethany Pace 43:57
have good stories 

Hillary Livingston 43:58
yeah 

Rich Bennett 43:59
more good do you want math to go. 

Morgan 44:00
You know it's 

Rich Bennett 44:01
take you five minutes to 

Matt 44:02
something 

Rich Bennett 44:02
think of 

Matt 44:02
so i mean i'll talk 

Rich Bennett 44:03
first. 

Matt 44:03
about 

Rich Bennett 44:04
Be 

Matt 44:04
my 

Rich Bennett 44:04
late 

Matt 44:04
my 

Bethany Pace 44:05
I'll 

Matt 44:05
talk about I'll talk about my first. 

Bethany Pace 44:07
First marriage. 

Matt 44:09
so this was uh 

Bethany Pace 44:10
Yeah 

Matt 44:10
I got married probably my son's 21 right now so I got married 22 years ago to my first 

Bethany Pace 44:14
wife. 

Matt 44:15
Um she was just out of college I was she was 24 and I was 30. 

Rich Bennett 44:22
She 

Matt 44:22
She just got out of grad school um she had uh you know she came to me like on our first and at our wedding evening night and she was like listen I want to have a kid. I don't want to have a kid within a year and you know you need to be aligned with that 

Bethany Pace 44:38
got. 

Matt 44:38
or we're kind of like that was. 

Rich Bennett 44:40
This is on your. 

Morgan 44:41
Yes. 

Matt 44:41
This is like in this is like in hindsight like maybe I shouldn't have done that right. But I would do it all over again because my son is amazing and is so so. On literally two days after 

Bethany Pace 44:55
Oh 

Matt 44:55
our first day before our first anniversary she gave birth to my son. 

Morgan 45:00
my gosh. 

Matt 45:00
Yeah so literally like we didn't have her first anniversary because she was in the hospital. Um so she had a fourth degree of physiognomy like all these things like it was really bad. This is where the problems the problems started like she was able to like produce milk like those kind of things. She got a little bit depressed and then we just kind of 

Hillary Livingston 45:21
like never. 

Matt 45:23
So it was like two and a half, three years of things going on. Um and then my secretary at work was like hey I was like what and person the one who's married to lived like. Sorry, we lived together. My secretary lived in another city like 20 miles away. And she's like, what kind of car does your wife drive? I'm like, excuse me? And she's like, yeah, it's, you know, I have my vacation, but I'm looking at my back door. And I think like she's at this guy's house behind me. 

Hillary Livingston 46:01
And 

Matt 46:02
I'm like, I'm like, what? Yeah. So, so then I did some investigation research and stuff like that. It was all totally denied. And it's fine. Like it doesn't matter. 

Rich Bennett 46:12
Right. 

Matt 46:12
Like, it's not the point anymore. But It ended up, we tried to patch it up by going to couples counseling, which I don't recommend. Because it's just one blame always goes on one person, depending on how to therapist is. Or one person does all the work, the other one doesn't do anything. It has to be, 

Rich Bennett 46:35
yeah, 

Matt 46:35
they both have to want to do it. So we wound up getting getting divorced. 

Rich Bennett 46:40
after how many years? 

Matt 46:42
Three, so I remember it was probably one of the most devastating things that ever occurred in my life was sitting with my four-year-old son on his bed. And a four and a half and sitting and having a conversation with him about mommy leaving the house. Right. 

Rich Bennett 47:00
Right. 

Matt 47:00
And he looked at me and said, you're not supposed, we're supposed to be a family. Like, you're not supposed to do this. And I can remember him like saying that. And I just, 

he turned to her and was like, why and she had like no answer. And to this day, he still doesn't know like, know how, why, whatever. So one of the things you know, you're supposed to go, apparently, you're supposed to do all these things. None of that ever happened. So I was like four or so years later, I met my current wife who was absolutely wonderful. And she helped me with like, Everything that I 

Rich Bennett 47:40
right. 

Matt 47:40
needed, like as a, she was perfect spouse, like with being able to like help me with, you know, at one point I was rolling quarters and knickles and dimes to like try to figure out how to pay for groceries and things like that. It was that bad. And then she came into my life and befriended my son first as a five year old. 

Rich Bennett 48:00
That's 

Matt 48:00
And did, you know, it was, it was incredible. So that was a big help, but trying to co-parent with somebody that doesn't want a co-parent is really, really, really bad and really hard. So in hindsight, I wish co-parenting was a little easier or better. Through a point where the co-parent was so non-existent that my son is now in college of four years, I've spoken to her once, over 

Rich Bennett 48:25
wow. 

Matt 48:25
email in four years. And we take care of everything. We pay for his college, you pay for his medical, everything sports, whatever. Like we take care of everything. So, and and when we when we got our divorce, it was 50-50. So like if she bought a cup of coffee for him, I would pay the dollar 50 out of the three dollars in Senator. So everything was 50-50. We would hand each other receipts or she would give me receipts. I'd give her receipts. I would sit down. And if my receipts were 300 and hers are 200, I'd give her 50 bucks or she would give me 50 dollars. So that's kind of and we were real honest with everything. And it was 

Rich Bennett 49:03
Right. 

Matt 49:03
really good. But then it came to a point where we just had control everything and then started claiming on taxes and stuff like that instead of flipping years and she's got Easter and I got Thanksgiving. It was really, it was 50-50. I got them on the 4th of July. She's got them on the 5th of July. His birthday is on the 4th of July. So it was like that structured. And we did it outside of court. where we had the Excel document like you're going to get this and I'm going to get this and I'll have this bed and you'll have this and we're going to split the house and you're going to get this. So for me it's the easy clean break and not helping your spouse sign for another apartment or not helping your spouse get a lease for a car or whatever things like that because that keeps you like entwined with that person and you need to break that. So what was clean is I broke all that and we did it amicably. It was difficult 

Rich Bennett 49:57
Yeah, 

Matt 49:57
but we didn't have any money. So to get lawyers we couldn't. 

Rich Bennett 50:01
Yeah. 

Matt 50:02
So that's kind of like the story and then you know being a single dad every other week for a year or so and then you know I think the funny one of the funniest conversations ever was like my current wife who I'm about to get divorced to, she was about to move into my apartment at the time and I sat my son down and said listen Becky's going to come and live with us. And he's like, what bedroom is she going to sleep in? So, and I'm like, well mine, and he's like, OK, that's good. So it just cute, like the 

Rich Bennett 50:35
Yeah. 

Matt 50:37
angle and the perception that the kids have during this. And I think my point, the importance of this point is that he-- I will always give him-- always have given him the positive outlook or as much as I possibly can 

Rich Bennett 50:51
Right. 

Matt 50:52
about his mom. I will never, never talk bad, never bash, never did anything. And me raising a young man, I'm hoping that he treats women like-- 

Hillary Livingston 51:04
[INAUDIBLE] As

Matt 51:05
to his life. 

Bethany Pace 51:05
Yes. 

Matt 51:06
And that's been really important to me in that. And he's been, you know, he asked me that, you know, I told him about what's going on with my spouse now. And he's like asking me how you're doing and those kind of things. 

Rich Bennett 51:19
And how old is he now? 

Matt 51:20
he's 21. So he's graduating from college right now. But he's starting his life and I want him to have all the skills and everything. 

Rich Bennett 51:28
Right, 

Matt 51:29
And he's had blowouts with his mom where he's come to my house, upset and everything. I'm like, well, how did you speak to him? And he's like, well, yeah, I'll die there. No, no, no, you need to go back to your mom. She's my ex-wife. I don't want her to do it. But you need to go back to her and you need to speak to her like she's your mom 

Rich Bennett 51:48
Right. 

Matt 51:49
and go apologize and these kind of things. And I should never know that I've had that conversation with him. It's not 

Bethany Pace 51:53
point. 

Matt 51:53
the 

Bethany Pace 51:53
Well, she listens. 

Matt 51:54
Right. Well, she probably wouldn't. 

Rich Bennett 51:56
[LAUGHS] 

Matt 51:58
but 

Bethany Pace 51:58
So 

Matt 51:58
my point is, like, I've had that conversation with him and I gave him a couple of days and he wanted to apologize. So these are the conversations as I'm hoping that the other side would 

Rich Bennett 52:08
a-- 

Matt 52:08
have 

Rich Bennett 52:08
Yeah. 

Matt 52:08
his co-parenting, 

Bethany Pace 52:09
but it doesn't. 

Matt 52:10
But I would always hold up-- want to hold up my side of the bargain of what co-parenting is supposed to look at. 

Rich Bennett 52:16
Mm-hmm. 

Matt 52:16
I'm going to take my kid for this week. This is where I'm going. This is what our divorce agreement means. Here's where I'm going. Here's the mileage. Here's what's going on. Here's my receipts, blah, blah, blah. That's what we agreed on. I believe it at that. And it's about having integrity in the agreement. And it's about making sure that you're not belittling or slandering or just smearing the other person because it makes it 100 times worse. And you hope that that other person doesn't do that 

Rich Bennett 52:46
you. 

Matt 52:46
back 

Rich Bennett 52:46
Right. 

Matt 52:46
to And I think right 

Rich Bennett 52:50
The 

Matt 52:50
now-- 

Rich Bennett 52:50
kids remember that stuff. 

Matt 52:51
Right. And I don't think he would ever know that I would-- I don't think he's ever known-- Like he's ever seen me do anything, 

Rich Bennett 52:59
Yeah. 

Matt 53:00
which I think-- Yeah. Took a 

Bethany Pace 53:01
of-- But on you. 

Matt 53:02
lot 

Bethany Pace 53:02
Yeah, a lot of self-control. 

Matt 53:04
Yeah. And you know I don't have a filter. 

Rich Bennett 53:07
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Morgan 54:28
So many people on the outside haven't been through it. Don't understand. They're like, well, he's doing that. So why don't you do XYZ? Why are you doing this? Why are you getting a birthday gift? A Christmas gift. He doesn't get you anything. I'm like, it's not for me. It's for the 

Matt 54:43
Because 

Morgan 54:43
kids. 

Matt 54:44
they need to understand. 

Morgan 54:44
at the end of the day, I have to live with myself, 

Matt 54:47
And 

Morgan 54:47
right? And I'm raising kids that not for the relationship now, which is obviously important, but that want to be around me and spend time with me when they have the choice. And how you act now is what, like you said, they're going to remember. And that's going to influence whether or not they want to be around you when they're adults. 

Matt 55:10
And you know, and I see it now, exactly what you're saying. He wants to spend time with me, He 

Rich Bennett 55:16
right? 

Matt 55:16
doesn't want to go back there. He wants to be around this side of the family, you know, in the four years that he's been in college. I think she's been to the university wants to visit him. Uh, like, these are the things that 

Bethany Pace 55:28
She 

Matt 55:28
I'm-- 

Bethany Pace 55:28
come into commencement? 

Matt 55:39
So, you're, you're more getting 100% correct than that. It's like, half, you know, and it's the role modeling, because you're kids, you know, you're teaching your kids to, no matter what the situation 

Hillary Livingston 55:50
is, 

Matt 55:51
and it's just to-- 

Bethany Pace 55:52
Dad's 

Matt 55:53
a good-- Is a good person, could be a good person to you, we didn't work, right? But, but, but we can now-- this is what gift giving is, this is what it looks like, you know. And it's, just because I have a bad relationship doesn't mean you 

Morgan 56:06
Exactly, and even there will be like, because they don't have the strongest relationship, because of things that have happened, and, um, they'll say, well, why are we doing 

Matt 56:15
do. 

Morgan 56:15
that? I'm like, because he's your dad, and we show your dad respect, because he's your-- We show everybody respect. Like, you don't have to like people, but you have to respect them, and this is just what you do. 

Matt 56:28
Yup. 

Rich Bennett 56:30
Your turn, Morgan. 

Morgan 56:31
My turn, so it's interesting, because, you know, the-- 

Matt 56:36
...quickness 

Morgan 56:36
with which you guys kind of moved through your relationship was exactly how mine went. Like, I was in my pretty young 20s when I met my ex, he's like seven years older than me. I didn't like him at first. But eventually he wore, he wore me down, he wore me down, which in hindsight is kind of a red flag. And everything happened, like, very quickly. It was like, move in, get engaged, get married within a year of being engaged. 

Rich Bennett 57:09
Jesus. 

Morgan 57:09
How do baby. 

Matt 57:14
He just sounds like love bombing. It sounds like a new supply, all that 

Morgan 57:19
Yeah, 

Matt 57:19
stuff. 

Morgan 57:19
so, um, I plead the 5th. 

Matt 57:23
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 57:24
Okay. 

Morgan 57:25
So, yeah, I had a baby, like, a month before our first anniversary. 

Bethany Pace 57:31
Wow. 

Matt 57:31
Wow. We're right on there. 

Morgan 57:32
Yeah, and it was like, there wasn't really, you know, a choice in the matter. It was like, this is what we're doing. And then I had, you know, my second child is two years after the first one, they're two years apart. And then kind of I was so consumed with all of that. And I was doing everything, you know, working full time, taking care of the kids. And when the dust kind of started to settle after my second baby was born, and then I had a lot of medical issues. I got diagnosed with some chronic illnesses. And I was like, the dust is settling and it's like. What the hell just happened the last, you know, five or 

Rich Bennett 58:11
Yeah. 

Morgan 58:11
six years, like what? And what is going on? And there were red flags from day one, and in hindsight, it's like, I never should have gotten married. Like a month before my wedding, I was like, this is not right. On my wedding day, I was like, 

Hillary Livingston 58:25
what's happened to me? 

Morgan 58:26
This is not, I should not be doing this. And, but it's like everything's 

Hillary Livingston 58:33
Set. 

Morgan 58:33
set. Like how can I go to my parents who kind of already didn't really like this person and be like, hi, 

Hillary Livingston 58:39
you're just paid for all of 

Morgan 58:41
The, 

Hillary Livingston 58:41
this. 

Morgan 58:41
you know, $80, 000 wedding you've just planned, like it's off. So I kind of, you know, I was young and was like, well, it's not going to be that bad forever. Like things will get better, you know? they don't get better. So I stayed for a long time and things just kind of got progressively worse. 

And then kind of around like COVID time, I introduced like, we need, we need help. Like, should we go to like couples counseling? He didn't want to do it. So I was like, okay, they still stayed for another couple of years. So it all kind of came to a head, like things are bad. They were bad. But I had surgery in April 2023. My second back surgery. And I was in the hospital and I woke up from the surgery. I couldn't walk. I had to have a second like emergency surgery two days later, three days 

Matt 59:34
And 

Morgan 59:34
later. And the way he was treating me when I was, you know, in a hospital that after having two 

Matt 59:41
certain... 

Morgan 59:42
freaking out about not being able to walk. 

was just like I have to do so. I knew I had to do something already, but I was like this is like the straw that broke the camel's back. And he had pretty much isolated me from my family and friends, so I hadn't talked to my parents in like the better part of 10 years. And I was like I don't have, you know, resources to get a divorce. Like at the time I was like talking with circle legal services like Harvard County Bar Foundation, like how am I gonna do this? So I because I didn't know how to leave. And I called my mom up, and I was like I need help. Like I need to leave, but like I can't. And she was like on a plane the next day and was like we'll help you, whatever. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:27
Oh, shit! See, you weren't even from here. 

Morgan 1:00:29
No, I'm from New Hampshire. Yes, and my family is up in New Hampshire. So yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:00:36
here, but he's from here. 

Morgan 1:00:37
He's from 

Bethany Pace 1:00:38
So he pretty much like isolated her from where she was from to be in his homefieldered manage. 

Morgan 1:00:44
Exactly, exactly. So 

yeah, it was pretty crazy. The divorce process was not a fun at all because you know the stuff doesn't really stop when you, you know, get divorced. It in some ways gets, it changes, but it gets worse in some ways 

Rich Bennett 1:01:05
bad 

Morgan 1:01:06
too. And then the whole co-parenting thing is just a nightmare. Like you cannot co-parent with somebody that's held that on counter-parenting. 

Does 

Rich Bennett 1:01:17
he, do you guys still stay in touch? 

Morgan 1:01:21
I mean we are court-ordered to communicate through an app, which I do my part in the communications, but most of my messages, you know, go... Unread. Yes, they are. So mine are almost 9 and 11. So we have to communicate. 

But you know, it's a situation for a person like I stay over here. I stay away because 

if I get near, like he was making comments in front of the kids and starting arguments and I'm just not going to put my kids in that position. So it's awkward and I feel bad that they can't have a normal relationship because I don't hold, like I don't, you know, I'm not seeking revenge. I don't hold any ill will or negative feelings. It just is what it is. Like it's over for me for the most part. So I had no problem, you know, if we could be next to each other at events. But it just got to the point where I'm like, it's better for the kids that I just stay over here. And they won't really interact with me either because they know it produces a reaction and they don't want to deal with it. So I'm just like, we, you know, I'll say hi quickly. 

Matt 1:02:33
This is 

Morgan 1:02:34
time and I kind of leave 

Hillary Livingston 1:02:35
this. 

Morgan 1:02:35
Whereas, you know, if it's my time and we're at an event, I encourage them, like dad's over there, go say hi, or, you know, you want to play with dad, go for, like, it's no big deal to me. It is what it is, because again, it's about for me, it's about the kids and what the kids want and need. It's not about what I want or need. 

Bethany Pace 1:02:54
You're modeling for them to really like, because conflict is just a way, like it's going to happen in life, right? It's going to happen at work. It happens. It will happen between siblings. It'll have, you know, and so you're modeling really a way to build that skill of how do I still exist, coexist with somebody without it being, you know, on fire all the time. It 

Matt 1:03:16
just, I had to say in my, I said, I met my current wife after this and I remember when she moved in, she was making comments about, like, the stuff that, like, it's about the kids. This is the point that I'm trying to make. But for me, it was about the kid, but it was because of my guilt of the divorce. So I was buying, I would go into a furniture store and be like, what kind of bed you want? And then it was like this 

Bethany Pace 1:03:41
giant, 

Matt 1:03:42
effing bunk bed that had a 

Bethany Pace 1:03:44
staircase, 

Matt 1:03:45
full size 

Morgan 1:03:45
bed. 

Matt 1:03:46
He played on it and I'm like, it was $3, 000. Now I'm in credit card that, but this 

Bethany Pace 1:03:50
kid has to have 

Matt 1:03:52
he 

Bethany Pace 1:03:52
to 

Matt 1:03:52
had to 

Bethany Pace 1:03:52
have 

Matt 1:03:52
have all these, like, I just, like, I had so much that I bought him so much 

Bethany Pace 1:03:59
it. He had to have 

Matt 1:04:00
stuff 

Bethany Pace 1:04:00
all her stuff 

Matt 1:04:00
and paid so much attention to him all the time, where I had to have another, like, caring human, tell me, yo, you got to back this up, 

Rich Bennett 1:04:07
and yeah, 

Matt 1:04:07
because your kid is going to be a fan-terror in, like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:04:10
three months. 

Matt 1:04:11
Right? 

Morgan 1:04:12
I gave my kids, like, a one year. 

Matt 1:04:14
Okay. It 

Morgan 1:04:16
the guilt of the divorce. 

Bethany Pace 1:04:17
wasn't 

Morgan 1:04:17
Like, we kind of sat them down and they kind of knew it was 

Matt 1:04:21
coming. Right. 

Morgan 1:04:24
And they had their own things with him. And so they were just kind of 

neutral and it was just kind of like, you know, we can't be the best parents to you if we live together, that was it. So it wasn't the guilt over that as much because I think there was relief in that, that they were going to be with me. I was in the intern at least because they were mostly with me throughout the divorce process. But it was the guilt that I stayed so long because I stayed so long because I, for the kids. And then I realized towards the end that they were being harmed in the process. And I was like, how was all of this stuff and more stuff kinda came out like afterwards? How was all this kind of going on and I had no idea? So I was feeling guilty that, you know, I should have left like three or four years ago in my therapist was like, you got to get out of this. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:21
When the kids see you upset, it trickles down to them as well. 

Morgan 1:05:25
Yeah. Yeah, 

Matt 1:05:25
I'll give you, give you, can I talk about 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:27
go ahead. 

Matt 1:05:28
you. 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:31
I did, 

Matt 1:05:32
said. 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:32
I 

Matt 1:05:34
You can see that more from the outside on how you're affected 

Hillary Livingston 1:05:38
by 

Matt 1:05:38
divorce, either guilt or whatever it is. And sometimes, you know, I didn't, I knew she was going through a divorce at that time, but like, we work really closely together for a week or so at a time at some, some stance. And at this one point, I looked at her and I could see through her, like, she looked like a zombie and she wasn't like taking care of herself and she was just moving to the next event, to the next room, to whatever it is just doing, probably just doing whatever she needed to do for her kids. And I'm just, I'm just talking, like, like, was, was was she taking care of herself? I'm not sure, you can speak in a second, but from the outside, like, no, she didn't look like it. It was that tone. Who said, It 

Rich Bennett 1:06:25
yeah. 

Matt 1:06:26
was like, this is my mission and like, I'm as, and from the outside, she's a zombie. And I wanted so much to like, say something, 

Bethany Pace 1:06:35
but I 

Matt 1:06:36
didn't want to like, talk about it like at work and stuff like that, but that's, like, she, like, was pale. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:41
Uh-huh. 

Matt 1:06:42
Like, just, 

Rich Bennett 1:06:43
A lot of 

Matt 1:06:43
no, no, like, no, but then you, but we talked 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:45
(inaudible) 

Matt 1:06:45
about 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:45
No, 

Matt 1:06:46
this 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:46
we did. 

Matt 1:06:46
and then you were like, that's exactly how it was like. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:49
A 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:49
that 

Matt 1:06:49
So, 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:49
was 

Rich Bennett 1:06:49
lot of people don't realize when you have that, I mean, I call it tunnel, because because when you have tunnel vision, you're like that, 

Matt 1:06:56
it. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:56
you don't see anything else going on around you 

Hillary Livingston 1:06:58
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:59
and it does show. 

Morgan 1:07:00
Yeah. Yeah. It totally does. The stress, like, I remember, like, towards the end, I was like, I don't even recognize myself when I look 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:09
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:07:09
in the mirror. Like, I, like, did not look well. And then after, it's like, I'm like a whole new 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:16
person. Yeah. 

Morgan 1:07:17
person, 

Bethany Pace 1:07:18
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:07:18
really, 

Bethany Pace 1:07:18
I mean, 

Morgan 1:07:18
like, not being in that environment. 

Bethany Pace 1:07:20
A person that came and was coerced to coming to that 

Morgan 1:07:23
holiday 

Bethany Pace 1:07:24
session to, like, when everything was final, I was like, you are an entirely 

Morgan 1:07:30
person. 

Bethany Pace 1:07:30
different 

Morgan 1:07:30
And other people, like, say the same thing and it's like, it feels good because I'm like, I mean, I don't know who I was, like, uh- 

Matt 1:07:36
And from January to February over this year, I lost 40 pounds going through this. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:42
Oh, so not on purpose. Damn. 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:45
Well, and also what's interesting is Matt, when you were talking about how you saw me at that point, I wasn't even divorced. It was even a radar. It was just like, I was just in such 

Morgan 1:07:55
just 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:55
a, 

Bethany Pace 1:07:55
It 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:55
it was. 

Bethany Pace 1:07:55
was 

Morgan 1:07:55
that. 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:55
Bad 

Bethany Pace 1:07:56
I 

Hillary Livingston 1:07:56
marriage. And 

Bethany Pace 1:07:57
was just married. 

Matt 1:07:58
was just married. 

Bethany Pace 1:07:59
I Yeah. I 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:05
mean, towards the end, I got really bad. But like, just over the years, like, now of course looking back with hindsight, it was just like so much of my personality had gotten eroded 

Morgan 1:08:14
Yes. 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:14
over. to just stay, you know, just make it 

Morgan 1:08:18
Trying 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:19
work, keep the peace. And I mean, and it's, you know, of it was I own a lot of it because I didn't, I wasn't forceful enough in saying, like, what I wanted or what I 

Rich Bennett 1:08:30
some 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:31
needed. And I get nobody really teaches you 

Bethany Pace 1:08:33
how to do 

Matt 1:08:33
And 

Bethany Pace 1:08:33
that. 

Matt 1:08:34
it must have been so bad for someone who's a colleague that 

Bethany Pace 1:08:37
Yeah. 

Matt 1:08:37
sees you once in a while, but not a great friend 

Rich Bennett 1:08:40
Mm 

Matt 1:08:40
for 

Rich Bennett 1:08:40
hmm. 

Matt 1:08:40
that person to see that and to recognize that. How bad does that 

Rich Bennett 1:08:45
do? 

Matt 1:08:45
have 

Rich Bennett 1:08:45
Yeah. 

Matt 1:08:45
to You 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:46
Yeah. 

Matt 1:08:46
know, sorry to like. 

Bethany Pace 1:08:48
No. 

Matt 1:08:49
Trigger you 

Bethany Pace 1:08:50
Yeah, 

Matt 1:08:50
again 

Bethany Pace 1:08:50
no. 

Matt 1:08:50
toward whatever, but I just 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:52
went. Great, 

Morgan 1:08:52
such a 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:52
like, 

Morgan 1:08:53
toll on your health and your 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:55
yeah, 

Morgan 1:08:55
physical state, everything, 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:56
because 

Morgan 1:08:56
mental state, everything 

Hillary Livingston 1:08:58
because we talked about that too, like when we when we were doing commencement together, we were a little 

Bethany Pace 1:09:04
aggressive. 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:04
What would you say, Matt, aggressive? 

Matt 1:09:06
I'm aggressive, so you're 

Bethany Pace 1:09:08
Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:08
yeah, 

Matt 1:09:08
not 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:08
it's true. 

Matt 1:09:09
you're not bordering me, 

Rich Bennett 1:09:10
but 

Matt 1:09:10
Highly assertive 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:12
yeah. 

Matt 1:09:12
with no filters. 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:14
We were just like a 

Bethany Pace 1:09:15
lot of the. 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:16
It just, like, a lot of things that we were fixated on were things that, like, weren't, like, the cap decorations. We were like cap police, literally. 

Matt 1:09:23
It didn't really matter. 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:24
It 

Bethany Pace 1:09:25
matter, right? But we, it had in our head were like, no more than one or two 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:29
doesn't 

Bethany Pace 1:09:29
stoles. No, decorations 

Matt 1:09:31
may 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:31
not be more than one inch 

Bethany Pace 1:09:32
above the mortar board. Like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:33
in, we 

Bethany Pace 1:09:33
we 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:33
went 

Bethany Pace 1:09:33
went 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:34
in. 

Bethany Pace 1:09:37
But we, but really looking back we, that was like, there 

Matt 1:09:40
was some station and I 

Bethany Pace 1:09:42
was like, um, some like unhappy, because our other areas are 

Matt 1:09:45
marriages were 

Bethany Pace 1:09:45
so out of 

Morgan 1:09:46
Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 1:09:47
control. 

Morgan 1:09:47
yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:09:47
exactly that was 

Matt 1:09:48
way, 

Bethany Pace 1:09:48
like, a 

Matt 1:09:48
how do you get? 

Morgan 1:09:49
You can control 

Bethany Pace 1:09:50
Yes. 

Morgan 1:09:50
something 

Bethany Pace 1:09:50
That's 

Morgan 1:09:51
else. 

Bethany Pace 1:09:51
exactly at work. And what was so interesting about, like, what Matt's talking about with, with Hillary is like, it was literally like a month ago or that Matt was like, you're like, it was like he was meeting Hillary for the first time. Like, really meeting Hillary 

Rich Bennett 1:10:05
for the first 

Bethany Pace 1:10:05
time because, you know, for the bulk of the years that he's known her, you know, she, you know, has been going through something, you know, like he said, like, I just look right through you. Kind of, you know, but now he's like, sees her in like full technic color, which I 

Matt 1:10:21
Dis 

Bethany Pace 1:10:21
just love. 

Matt 1:10:22
sparkle in Iraq. 

Bethany Pace 1:10:23
Yeah. 

Matt 1:10:23
kind of things 

Rich Bennett 1:10:24
Yeah. Has 

Matt 1:10:24
like, 

Rich Bennett 1:10:24
she 

Matt 1:10:24
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:10:24
has 

Matt 1:10:25
no, no, 

Rich Bennett 1:10:25
she's 

Matt 1:10:25
serious. And 

Rich Bennett 1:10:26
given 

Matt 1:10:26
it was 

Rich Bennett 1:10:26
you 

Matt 1:10:26
that 

Rich Bennett 1:10:26
a 

Matt 1:10:26
it 

Rich Bennett 1:10:27
heart 

Matt 1:10:27
was at the, it was at the 

Rich Bennett 1:10:28
picking 

Matt 1:10:28
fill the 

Rich Bennett 1:10:28
on. 

Matt 1:10:28
event. 

Hillary Livingston 1:10:28
Oh, 

Matt 1:10:29
And it was that conversation at the fill the event. I can see like when I spoke to you, whatever is a couple of years ago. Obviously, we've been talking in front since then, 

Bethany Pace 1:10:38
right. It's 

Matt 1:10:38
but, that, and it's not, it's not like a figured thing. Like, you can see that sparkle, 

Rich Bennett 1:10:45
but, yeah, 

Matt 1:10:45
like the glow, the posture. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:48
You feel a lot better now, too, 

Matt 1:10:49
She, she looks like she's proud. She, 

Rich Bennett 1:10:51
though. 

Matt 1:10:52
you 

Rich Bennett 1:10:52
Yeah. 

Matt 1:10:52
know, those kind of things. And that did not. Zombie is how it's, 

Rich Bennett 1:10:56
yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 1:10:58
It's 

Morgan 1:10:59
real. It's 

Hillary Livingston 1:11:00
real. 

Bethany Pace 1:11:01
that's the divorce. We talk about, too, like when you get to the other side and you finally are like not the zombie. That's 

Morgan 1:11:07
Like, yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:11:07
why we try to celebrate that. Yeah, because it's rough. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:12
Something 

Matt 1:11:13
mentioned. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:13
you 

Your health. How's your health now? 

Morgan 1:11:20
It's better. A lot better. Mental health, which I'm an open book is so much better. Like, when I was in my marriage. was on all these different medications. I was told, oh, you have treatment, persistent depression. And I have my one therapist who I met. Kind of later, like right before my divorce. Or when I filed, and she's like, you don't have treatment, persistent depression. I was like, she's like, you're in a bad marriage. And I was like, lady, you don't know what you're talking about. Like, I did not believe her. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:53
I 

Morgan 1:11:54
But it's like, once I was out of that situation and living on my own, it was like off the medications. Like I was so much better off mentally. Physically, I mean, I got issues, you know. A month after I got to the hospital for the two back surgeries, where I decided I was getting divorced. I spent like a month in patient rehab, figuring out how to walk again. I got re-erended and had to have. So I've had two neck surgery since then. So that's like an ongoing struggle. But for the most part, yeah, like, I'm great, you know. Nothing's, nothing's better than having freedom and only having to deal with that type of person when you absolutely have to. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:40
Right. Wow. 

Morgan 1:12:42
But, yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 1:12:46
It's real, 

Rich Bennett 1:12:46
yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know. 

Morgan 1:12:49
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:50
even as old people realize that. 

Morgan 1:12:51
But, you know, And that was like, I can't go through a divorce, I can't do this, like, I am not strong enough. I don't 

Matt 1:13:00
know. 

Morgan 1:13:01
Make it on my own to literally having four spine surgeries, and going through it. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:05
Four. 

Matt 1:13:06
But it takes, it takes more strength and energy to hold on to the old stuff 

Morgan 1:13:11
Oh, 

Matt 1:13:11
then to 

Morgan 1:13:12
absolutely. 

Matt 1:13:12
then. 

Morgan 1:13:12
Like it is easier when you let go of that. It is like, I'm like, it's easier on my own, you know, I got rid of my other child, like the most taxing child, 

Bethany Pace 1:13:22
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:13:22
you know. 

Hillary Livingston 1:13:22
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:13:22
Two 

Matt 1:13:23
Well, 

Bethany Pace 1:13:23
hundred pounds. 

Matt 1:13:24
I know I used to sit when I got when I got divorced in my first wife. I was like, man, I just lost 175 pounds, 40 of me and 130 of her. And I was like, I remember I used to say that. 

Morgan 1:13:35
It's like the first thing I tell people that I don't know how I'm going to do this. I'm like, you, you will find a way you can 

Matt 1:13:40
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:13:40
do it. 

Hillary Livingston 1:13:41
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:13:41
And like, you will be so much better 

Rich Bennett 1:13:43
Hell. 

Morgan 1:13:43
off on the other side. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:45
Context 

Matt 1:13:45
is. 

Hillary Livingston 1:13:47
Perfect 

Morgan 1:13:47
Sure. You know, 

Hillary Livingston 1:13:48
plug. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:49
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:13:49
community, it's true. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:50
It's a no- it's a no-brainer. 

Matt 1:13:52
That's what you need though. Like in- 

Bethany Pace 1:13:54
I'm not- I'm always 

Matt 1:13:55
surprised to try the irony that we- one out of two 

Bethany Pace 1:13:58
marriages is end-in-the-war. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:59
Mm-hmm. 

Bethany Pace 1:13:59
Yeah, because no one talks about it when you're going through it, it feels like you're the only one going through it. You know, and it's like, no, probably three people next to you are going through the same thing. Well, two people I guess, staff's are supposed to. Anyway, not really pretty with 

Morgan 1:14:14
And 

Bethany Pace 1:14:14
that. 

Morgan 1:14:15
so many 

Bethany Pace 1:14:15
stories 

Morgan 1:14:16
are very much the same. Like to the point I'm like, do these people like have a playbook? 

Bethany Pace 1:14:20
No, we- 

Hillary Livingston 1:14:21
I- 

Morgan 1:14:21
I pay that all 

Hillary Livingston 1:14:22
the time with two of my really good friends, because we all have very similar divorce. And our- in similar co-parenting situations, and we always- the same playbook, just different playbook. 

Morgan 1:14:35
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 1:14:35
It all took very different flavor 

Bethany Pace 1:14:38
around. 

Matt 1:14:38
And 

Bethany Pace 1:14:39
similar 

Morgan 1:14:40
story line. 

Hillary Livingston 1:14:41
Similar- 

Bethany Pace 1:14:41
Like we find in the support group, we do our support group meetings. Like whether it's like gambling or, you know, okay. Or, I mean, all- addiction. You know, all kinds of- 

Rich Bennett 1:14:52
addiction. 

Bethany Pace 1:14:52
of thread 

Matt 1:14:53
is 

Bethany Pace 1:14:54
fascinating. 

Matt 1:14:54
Like, you know, 

Bethany Pace 1:14:56
people again, across all ages, 

Rich Bennett 1:14:58
races. Mm-hmm. 

Bethany Pace 1:14:59
You know, we see these same themes emerge from the same playbook. And- 

Morgan 1:15:05
and genders. Because, you know, after, you know, I went through what I went through, I was like, men are evil. Don't even come near me. Don't breathe air with me. But, through, sincerely divorced, I have met some men who have been on the other side, where like- when I first met them, I was like, no. That like that guy. No. And then I, you know, have interacted with their exes, not knowing. And I'm like, then I hear his side, and I'm like, wait a minute. And I see the receipts. And I'm like, I'm not like pro- girl- like I'm not girls' girl. But I'm not so quick to be like, I'm on team woman because I've seen some stuff. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:49
I 

Morgan 1:15:49
And- 

Rich Bennett 1:15:49
just wanted to know why when you 

Morgan 1:15:51
side 

Rich Bennett 1:15:51
said all men are evil, when you made the cross sign, you were 

Morgan 1:15:54
away. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:54
pointing at Matt. 

Morgan 1:15:55
I mean, all- 

Rich Bennett 1:15:56
all- 

Morgan 1:15:57
okay. Other side, okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:59
No, don't point at 

Matt 1:16:01
There's 

Rich Bennett 1:16:01
me. 

Matt 1:16:02
plenty of people out there, 

Morgan 1:16:03
it's pretty fun. No. That's a great guy. 

Bethany Pace 1:16:07
But that's true. It's like equal opportunity, jerks, you know. 

Morgan 1:16:11
It really is. It's really, 

Bethany Pace 1:16:15
that's why we are like intentionally inclusive. 

Matt 1:16:17
really. 

Bethany Pace 1:16:18
And we've had people like, like, couples, ex-couple, or whatever, like people trying to thwart somebody else's reputation in the group, like someone contacted us on Facebook. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:29
And 

Bethany Pace 1:16:29
Like, 

Morgan 1:16:29
we're probably talking about the same person, I 

Bethany Pace 1:16:31
you don't 

Morgan 1:16:31
think. 

Bethany Pace 1:16:32
want to have- And don't want to have him in your group. 

Morgan 1:16:34
You 

Bethany Pace 1:16:35
He's toxic. Oh 

Morgan 1:16:36
my god. 

Bethany Pace 1:16:37
then the more we learn, because first of all, we were like, so we're not going to police that. You 

Rich Bennett 1:16:43
And 

Bethany Pace 1:16:43
know, like you don't ask people to bring references before they join. You know, and well, can you let me know if he's going to be at events? Like, no, we can't. You're like 

Matt 1:16:53
couple 

Bethany Pace 1:16:53
your 

Matt 1:16:54
of 

Hillary Livingston 1:16:54
in 

Matt 1:16:54
parents, 

Hillary Livingston 1:16:54
it. And 

Matt 1:16:54
being 

Hillary Livingston 1:16:54
he's at 

Matt 1:16:55
event. 

Hillary Livingston 1:16:56
an 

Matt 1:16:56
Right. 

Bethany Pace 1:16:57
Yeah. But yeah, she was total character assassination. And, you know, as we got to know it, because he presented very differently. But again, we're all meeting for the first time. We're all going through some stuff. You know, so you just, you don't know what you're going to get. But over time, it's clear that like she's the narcissist 

Rich Bennett 1:17:16
it. Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:17:16
in 

Morgan 1:17:16
Yes, 

Bethany Pace 1:17:17
relationship. Because he's like-- doesn't bad 

Hillary Livingston 1:17:20
mouth her. He's, 

Bethany Pace 1:17:24
yeah, so it's you can't make assumptions. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:27
Right. 

Matt 1:17:27
And just going back to the gender thing. And my observations are going to these different events. But they're very organic in the way they occur. So the first event I went to, there's like three guys. And like tons of women. And a bar full of women that had no-- 

Hillary Livingston 1:17:41
Yeah. 

Matt 1:17:42
the event. And then the second event that I 

Bethany Pace 1:17:45
Two, 

Matt 1:17:45
went to was all guys. And one, not counting the two of you, like one 

Rich Bennett 1:17:50
woman. Was that Morgan? 

Matt 1:17:51
No. No. It's just the woman from Cleveland. 

Bethany Pace 1:17:53
Yeah. Exactly. 

Matt 1:17:54
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:17:54
And then we have Tae. 

Matt 1:17:55
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:17:55
Can't forget 

Matt 1:17:56
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:17:56
Tae. 

Matt 1:17:56
Yeah. So it was like, you never know what type of person, who, gender, whatever it is is going to show up. And you just got to go with the flow or leave with 

Morgan 1:18:07
the things. Well, I remember 

Matt 1:18:09
this 

Morgan 1:18:09
event that there was a guy out. I was like, what is going on? The vibes are off. Like I did not sign up for this. But that like so speaks to like 

Bethany Pace 1:18:18
The 

Morgan 1:18:18
the 

Bethany Pace 1:18:18
healing 

Morgan 1:18:18
healer. 

Bethany Pace 1:18:19
journey. 

Hillary Livingston 1:18:19
Yeah. Two, 

Morgan 1:18:21
you know. Like. 

Hillary Livingston 1:18:27
Well, people texts us and we're like, we, you know, we're like, they're like, it's okay now, 'cause he was

Bethany Pace 1:18:32
okay, but, like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:18:33
when 

Bethany Pace 1:18:33
when he 

Hillary Livingston 1:18:33
he, 

Matt 1:18:33
well, 

Bethany Pace 1:18:33
first showed up, we were very 

Hillary Livingston 1:18:35
triggered. And we were like shit. 

Morgan 1:18:36
I 

Bethany Pace 1:18:37
know. We wanted him, we wanted him to come to, but he again, everyone's schedules are complicated. But he held his own, that's it. And, um, you know, I think he knew, you know, 

Morgan 1:18:46
It's 

Bethany Pace 1:18:47
'cause, but 

Morgan 1:18:47
such 

Bethany Pace 1:18:47
yeah. 

Morgan 1:18:47
like a process, 'cause at the beginning, again, it's like, you bring your own stuff into it, you know, and it's hard, not to, but throughout the process, I'm like, okay, wait a minute. Like, I'm healing for my own stuff. And I'm moving on from, you know, the early, 'cause I feel like the early days it was like we were all getting together and we're, you know, manhating. And then the men show up and you're like, what's going on? Like, we can't, manhate 

Hillary Livingston 1:19:15
We 

Morgan 1:19:15
when 

Hillary Livingston 1:19:16
have 

Morgan 1:19:16
he's 

Hillary Livingston 1:19:16
a 

Morgan 1:19:16
there. 

Hillary Livingston 1:19:16
divorce growth mindset, 

Morgan 1:19:17
but now it's like, I've kind of moved away. Like, that is not helpful to me any longer. And I don't, I get kind of tired of it. I'm like, I can't, like, you're new in the process. Like, I want to help you. And I, I will help anybody. But I'm also like, I can't be centered on, like, my life can't be centered on that type of situation anymore, because I'm over here now. I'm so sorry you're over there, but you'll get over here. 

Bethany Pace 1:19:42
Right. And that's why we try to stay positive. Like, our content, like, we never want to, really, we are, like, intentionally not going down the, your jerk mode. I mean, we have our, our reels are, you know, funny and sarcastic. And that kind 

Hillary Livingston 1:19:56
of, 

Bethany Pace 1:19:58
but we just try to stay away from bashing. 

Morgan 1:20:01
but, 

Bethany Pace 1:20:01
Like bashing, because it's 

Morgan 1:20:02
exactly, 

Bethany Pace 1:20:02
like poor 

Morgan 1:20:03
because 

Bethany Pace 1:20:03
use. 

Morgan 1:20:03
it's in 

Rich Bennett 1:20:03
If you 

Morgan 1:20:04
it exactly, and it keeps you stuck, 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:06
it really does, 

Rich Bennett 1:20:08
mindset, positive 

Morgan 1:20:10
the 

Rich Bennett 1:20:10
mind, 

Morgan 1:20:10
move on 

Rich Bennett 1:20:10
more accomplished. You're going to help a lot more people. And you're going to change people 

Morgan 1:20:15
better. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:15
for 

Morgan 1:20:15
And 

Rich Bennett 1:20:15
the 

Morgan 1:20:15
it 

Rich Bennett 1:20:15
good, for the 

Morgan 1:20:16
was, it was from like meeting some of the guys in the group, not that I'm like, interested, but that was like, Oh, you know, there are good decent genuine guys out there. Maybe, you know, we'll get on the Facebook dating. 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:29
Yeah, 

Morgan 1:20:30
that's a different story. Okay. 

Bethany Pace 1:20:31
We're just, you know, 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:34
conversation, 

Bethany Pace 1:20:34
but, yeah, well, not all of them, but yeah. So 

Morgan 1:20:41
it's equal opportunity, 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:43
equal opportunity, jerks and equal 

Morgan 1:20:45
exact, 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:45
opportunity, friends, 

Bethany Pace 1:20:47
right 

Morgan 1:20:48
for sure. 

Matt 1:20:48
nothing yet. There's 

Bethany Pace 1:20:49
And there's 

Matt 1:20:49
going to write a book on the most horrible dates that you have been on, right? 

Morgan 1:20:54
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:56
We can 

Morgan 1:20:56
remember 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:56
all 

Morgan 1:20:56
the 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:56
can 

Morgan 1:20:56
chicken 

Matt 1:20:57
just. 

Morgan 1:20:57
soup? 

Matt 1:20:58
Yeah, 

Hillary Livingston 1:20:58
Yes. 

Matt 1:20:58
the, it does to be a horrible 

Morgan 1:20:59
Like 

Matt 1:20:59
dates. 

Morgan 1:20:59
the divorce 

Bethany Pace 1:21:00
the yeah, 

Morgan 1:21:01
and 

Bethany Pace 1:21:02
we're working on, but we are 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:04
book. 

Bethany Pace 1:21:04
working on a 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:04
We are. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:05
Well, no, no, forget the book thing for a minute. I mean, no, keep working on the book, but no, this, this, would you just said about the dating thing? 

Matt 1:21:12
It's crazy. 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:13
It's 

Rich Bennett 1:21:13
I think that's the next podcast. 

Morgan 1:21:15
Oh my gosh. Yes, I got. 

Matt 1:21:18
I got. I got a. 

Morgan 1:21:18
I 

Rich Bennett 1:21:19
dating while, 

Bethany Pace 1:21:20
got 

Rich Bennett 1:21:20
you know, 

Morgan 1:21:20
I 

Bethany Pace 1:21:20
screen 

Morgan 1:21:20
got 

Rich Bennett 1:21:21
dating 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:21
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:21
while. 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:22
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:21:22
I've got an album on my 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:23
Me 

Rich Bennett 1:21:24
phone. 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:24
too. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:24
Wait, 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:24
We have, 

Rich Bennett 1:21:24
what? 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:24
yeah, like, 

Morgan 1:21:25
I keep proceedings, right? I've got all the, 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:28
I also have them too because there's just 

Morgan 1:21:30
it's 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:30
so 

Morgan 1:21:30
so, 

Hillary Livingston 1:21:30
many out there. 

Morgan 1:21:31
And you're just got to show people. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:32
Oh, I make sure I had. Yeah, that's going to have to be all 

Bethany Pace 1:21:35
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:35
of it. 

Bethany Pace 1:21:36
That's going to. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:36
Yeah. 

Matt 1:21:39
I got. 

Bethany Pace 1:21:39
I got. Mask. Mask. I don't have. I feel like I don't have it. 

Matt 1:21:41
I got some creative 

Bethany Pace 1:21:42
stories, but, but there are some 

Morgan 1:21:44
stories. Oh, 

Rich Bennett 1:21:45
there's some skate out. Oh, yeah, there's, there's so good dating stories. I'm 

Matt 1:21:48
sure. 

Rich Bennett 1:21:48
so 

Morgan 1:21:49
And I've not 

Rich Bennett 1:21:50
scary 

Morgan 1:21:50
been on 

Rich Bennett 1:21:51
kink 

Morgan 1:21:51
con any day 

Rich Bennett 1:21:52
stories. 

Matt 1:21:54
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 1:21:59
God. So you are work the book. Can you say you're working on the book? 

Bethany Pace 1:22:03
I'm not working on dating. I'm actually actively anti dating right now. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:08
Okay. 

Bethany Pace 1:22:09
me. That's because I'm so focused on sincerely 

Rich Bennett 1:22:12
Oh, 

Bethany Pace 1:22:12
divorce truly, 

Rich Bennett 1:22:12
no, 

Bethany Pace 1:22:12
like, I have 

Morgan 1:22:13
you're 

Bethany Pace 1:22:13
tunnel 

Morgan 1:22:13
not 

Bethany Pace 1:22:13
vision 

Morgan 1:22:13
missing 

Bethany Pace 1:22:14
in 

Morgan 1:22:14
out. 

Bethany Pace 1:22:14
that way. 

Morgan 1:22:14
And 

Bethany Pace 1:22:15
Yeah, 

Morgan 1:22:15
trust 

Bethany Pace 1:22:15
and I know I'm not missing out. 

Matt 1:22:17
She doesn't look like a zombie right 

Morgan 1:22:18
now. I'm like, 

Bethany Pace 1:22:19
um, 

Morgan 1:22:19
eat someone in the wild, but like I would have. Hartford County 

Matt 1:22:26
to do 

Morgan 1:22:27
that. You know, you 

Bethany Pace 1:22:31
know, it's 

Morgan 1:22:33
a different 

Bethany Pace 1:22:35
flavor. 

Morgan 1:22:36
People. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:36
it has the book. 

Bethany Pace 1:22:37
Well, Hopefully, we have actually one of our group members. She's a full-time student and she's--she's got some time on her hands and so we asked her to help us organize what we want to be our first book, which is going to be, like, a compilation of encouragement, you know, sort of like one of those easy books you can pick up or you could give somebody, you know, that's going through divorce. Like we call them our dear friends. That's how they show up on our platforms but, you know, to organize it because, you know, we've known we wanted to do it but then we're like, crap, we have to now go through 15 months of content which doesn't sound like a lot, but it is actually a lot, you know, so she's helping us. Hey, shout out Katey. 

Hillary Livingston 1:23:21
Fresh eyes to-- 

Bethany Pace 1:23:22
Yeah, fresh eyes, you know, and so she's gonna--she's helping us go through it so then we can do, like, the self-publishing thing through Amazon. Like, that's--that's the goal. KDP. Yeah, unless--let's bring it in house or somebody is listening and they want to-- 

Rich Bennett 1:23:36
What--we can talk about it. Where's--? 

Bethany Pace 1:23:38
Okay, 

Rich Bennett 1:23:38
okay, okay, okay. 

Bethany Pace 1:23:40
Oh, we're also doing a column for Harvard County living. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:43
You are? 

Bethany Pace 1:23:44
Yeah? 

Rich Bennett 1:23:44
I 

Hillary Livingston 1:23:44
don't know. 

Bethany Pace 1:23:45
I was convincing, 

Hillary Livingston 1:23:46
saying I was kind of like, whoa. 

Bethany Pace 1:23:47
Yeah. I was like, I'm going with it. 

Hillary Livingston 1:23:48
Yeah. No. 

Bethany Pace 1:23:49
I'm like, no, no, no, I have the receipts. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:52
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:23:52
The receipts. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna do a column. Columns. Yeah. Well, we appreciate the 

Matt 1:23:55
opportunity, 

Bethany Pace 1:23:56
people 

Matt 1:23:56
but 

Bethany Pace 1:23:56
can write in a question about divorce, it's like dear Abby, but like dear Bethany and Hillary, dear sincerely divorced, and we're going to be answering questions there, so that's--that we're excited about that. So, you know, we're just--we're just thrilled to be invited into certain spaces, you know, to spread--spread the mission. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:16
I have--and if you haven't thought about it, I have a fun-- this time next 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:19
slide. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:25
This 

Morgan 1:24:25
next slide. Yes, 

Rich Bennett 1:24:26
time 

Morgan 1:24:26
that's my--well, 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:27
I mean, that was--that's the goal. 

Morgan 1:24:29
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:29
We would love to plant communities 

Morgan 1:24:31
Do that. 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:32
all over the 

Rich Bennett 1:24:32
To 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:33
country. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:33
the--this-- 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:33
Wow. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:34
I 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:34
Next year. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:34
think you will 

Then you're going 

Bethany Pace 1:24:37
bus-- 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:37
have said-- 

Bethany Pace 1:24:37
Let's 

Rich Bennett 1:24:37
to get a 

Bethany Pace 1:24:38
manifest 

Rich Bennett 1:24:38
it. You're going to get a bus wrapped this-- 

Morgan 1:24:41
You need 

Rich Bennett 1:24:41
[inaudible] 

Bethany Pace 1:24:42
We are adopting a road. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:43
You 

Morgan 1:24:44
have? 

Bethany Pace 1:24:44
Yeah, we are 

Rich Bennett 1:24:45
adopting a road. 

Bethany Pace 1:24:46
Yeah. Yeah. And people are always like come--come to Australia, come to the UK. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:51
Oh, I got-- 

Bethany Pace 1:24:52
don't 

Rich Bennett 1:24:53
adopt the road. No. Well, you can do that too, but-- 

Hillary Livingston 1:24:58
[inaudible] 

Rich Bennett 1:24:59
Adopt the park. Finan--because Hartford County, you can adopt the park, and a lot of these parks have pavilion. 

Where you can do some meetup. 

Hillary Livingston 1:25:09
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:25:11
Yeah. I mean, yeah. We adopt 

Bethany Pace 1:25:12
the 

Rich Bennett 1:25:13
dispark, but the sign fell. 

Matt 1:25:15
[laughs] Oh, 

Hillary Livingston 1:25:16
I see 

Bethany Pace 1:25:16
it now. 

Rich Bennett 1:25:16
Yeah. 

Hillary Livingston 1:25:17
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:25:17
of-- We also, like, through just networking, right. We met a guy who is a financial analyst, but he's a former Cecil County cop. And he gave us the idea. He's like, you know what? Go to police stations with a box of donuts, he said, and a bunch of our cards, because oftentimes the law enforcement and fire, you know, first responders, they deal with a lot of domestic situations. Like before you even get to divorce. Like, they see the people, and they're like, and they wish that they could help them in some way, shape, or form. 

Rich Bennett 1:25:51
A lot So-- For us, too. 

Morgan 1:25:53
They do. They have-- 

Hillary Livingston 1:25:54
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:25:54
Like resources that they'll hand out, like, here's Sark, here's the resources in the area. So 

Bethany Pace 1:26:01
Yeah. Yeah. 

Morgan 1:26:01
they've got cards 

Bethany Pace 1:26:02
Well, 

Morgan 1:26:02
to-- 

Bethany Pace 1:26:02
we've done two deliveries so far, and they were, like, they were thrilled. Like, we had no idea. I mean, we, again, didn't occur to us, but it's like, yeah, so to your point chapters, you know, they're people in all of so many different places, that we have we have yet to really truly 

Matt 1:26:22
I've 

Bethany Pace 1:26:22
find. 

Matt 1:26:22
been watching on your Facebook page that you have different, like, groups, 

Bethany Pace 1:26:26
Yeah, 

Matt 1:26:26
chats popping up in different 

Hillary Livingston 1:26:28
yeah, 

Matt 1:26:28
areas. 

Bethany Pace 1:26:28
exactly. 

Matt 1:26:28
That's the first 

Bethany Pace 1:26:29
this 

Matt 1:26:29
stage. 

Bethany Pace 1:26:29
is, yeah, 

Matt 1:26:30
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:26:30
this is like our data collection. 

Matt 1:26:31
Yeah, kind 

Bethany Pace 1:26:32
of. Yeah. Yeah. Like, now, like, we ask people, like, where do you live? Like, if you join our mailing list or something on those lines, so that we have an idea. So, like, oh, we have a groundswell of people here. We can go, and we can, you know, do something. You know, like, I'm going to Pittsburgh this weekend, and I low-keyed thought about, like, maybe I should just post it. I'll be-- I'll be-- if anyone wants to meet up for coffee that I'm there. 

Rich Bennett 1:26:52
You should. 

Bethany Pace 1:26:53
Yeah. And then usually we like to 

Rich Bennett 1:26:55
Just 

Bethany Pace 1:26:55
do-- 

Rich Bennett 1:26:55
don't wear a Ravens 

Morgan 1:26:56
I love that you're thinking about 

Matt 1:26:57
J-- 

Morgan 1:26:57
that, because 

Matt 1:26:58
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:26:58
I kept thinking about that for you guys, because I was on, like, the board of a local moms group. It was, like, a national thing, but there was, like, a false den chapter, a Bel Air. And I was, like, that's, like, the perfect model. All you guys are expanding, because it's, that's a 

Matt 1:27:14
and 

Morgan 1:27:14
lot. 

Matt 1:27:14
not to tell you, and not to tell you how to do stuff, but, um, what about EAPs, like at large 

Hillary Livingston 1:27:20
We talked 

Matt 1:27:20
universities? Like 

Hillary Livingston 1:27:21
about that. 

Matt 1:27:21
employee assistance programs, 

Bethany Pace 1:27:22
uh, yeah, 

Matt 1:27:22
cause 

Bethany Pace 1:27:22
well, Hm? 

Morgan 1:27:24
that's another. 

Matt 1:27:24
I need a lawyer, I need this, I'm going to divorce whatever, and then like, oh, well why don't you talk. 

Bethany Pace 1:27:29
Well, we're doing a presentation for the USM Professional Development Week 

Matt 1:27:32
Okay, 

Bethany Pace 1:27:33
and 

Matt 1:27:33
it's 

Bethany Pace 1:27:33
September. 

Matt 1:27:33
September. Good, 

Bethany Pace 1:27:34
Yeah, 

Matt 1:27:34
alright, 

Bethany Pace 1:27:34
we haven't even announced that, 

Matt 1:27:35
have fun. 

Bethany Pace 1:27:36
but yes, cause that is our like, we want to go to like employee benefits and wellness fairs, and things like that. You know, um, 

Matt 1:27:44
that'd be great. 

Bethany Pace 1:27:44
But yeah, the EAP, we 

Hillary Livingston 1:27:46
have a lot of 

Bethany Pace 1:27:47
ideas, 

Hillary Livingston 1:27:47
big 

Bethany Pace 1:27:47
like, there's so much. 

Hillary Livingston 1:27:48
I know. 

Bethany Pace 1:27:49
It's exciting, yeah. Oh my 

Hillary Livingston 1:27:50
gosh, yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:27:51
I mean, it's so good and I get to be with my best friend. Like every day, like I like we look at each other, 

Hillary Livingston 1:27:58
love 

Bethany Pace 1:27:58
I just 

Hillary Livingston 1:27:59
you, I just love you. Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:28:00
yeah, I told her yesterday, it was like, I don't know if I need any other 

Hillary Livingston 1:28:03
She 

Bethany Pace 1:28:03
friends. 

Hillary Livingston 1:28:03
dead. She's like, I've reached peak friendship. 

Bethany Pace 1:28:05
I'm like, like I mean, I feel like the people that I 

Rich Bennett 1:28:08
Right. 

Bethany Pace 1:28:08
have, 

Hillary Livingston 1:28:08
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:28:08
I'm not getting rid of any, I'm not purging. 

Hillary Livingston 1:28:11
I 

Bethany Pace 1:28:12
know. Yeah, exactly I'm 

Rich Bennett 1:28:13
not. You got mud over there, 

Bethany Pace 1:28:14
No, no, 

Rich Bennett 1:28:15
crying. 

Bethany Pace 1:28:15
no, no, no, no, I'm not purging. If anything, I'm more like this journey has taught me to invest. platonic loves 

Rich Bennett 1:28:22
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:28:22
of my life, you know, that exists. You know, Morgan is one of the mad is one of them. And like we always joke that like as we rise, it's, it's the people that, that we love deeply 

Rich Bennett 1:28:34
yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:28:35
that are going to come along with us. You know, like Matt knows a lot about contracts, he knows about events, he knows about it. It's like Matt, when we start negotiating something and be 

Hillary Livingston 1:28:43
like, You 

Bethany Pace 1:28:44
we don't 

Hillary Livingston 1:28:44
know, 

Bethany Pace 1:28:44
know we don't know anything about this. Can you please help us, and he used to help 

Matt 1:28:48
us with 

Hillary Livingston 1:28:48
students, 

Bethany Pace 1:28:48
students, 

Hillary Livingston 1:28:49
and 

Bethany Pace 1:28:49
and, and 

Matt 1:28:50
you 

Bethany Pace 1:28:50
we 

Matt 1:28:51
know, 

Bethany Pace 1:28:51
know, 

Matt 1:28:51
two difficult people. 

Bethany Pace 1:28:52
You know, you know, all the things, we're going to like go to that reservoir of people, like our, our friend here, the data 

Morgan 1:29:00
analyst, 

Bethany Pace 1:29:00
data analyst, you know. 

Matt 1:29:00
When you when you need an app, 

Bethany Pace 1:29:02
yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:29:03
can make 

Bethany Pace 1:29:03
exactly. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:03
it up for 

Matt 1:29:04
I 

Rich Bennett 1:29:04
that. 

Bethany Pace 1:29:05
Because like trusting people is hard, you know, especially two after divorce, you know, whether it's a relationship or whether it's just a friendship. It's like, I just feel like my picker is off, you always say that. Sometimes, you know, and it's like, oh, wow, maybe my judgment needs to see somebody through an 

Hillary Livingston 1:29:21
entire, entire season 

Morgan 1:29:23
before you know. 

Bethany Pace 1:29:24
you really know. But, but I'm blessed to have really a true depth of people that I love deeply and I think that they love me back, you know. 

Rich Bennett 1:29:34
Before 

Morgan 1:29:35
I do. I love both of you. And it it's so true though. Like, I feel like I'm like, okay, like I went from having zero friends, maybe one here locally. And now I'm like, oh my gosh, I have like all these people I've met that I can just call up and be like, let's 

Matt 1:29:51
drink. 

Morgan 1:29:51
go get a 

Bethany Pace 1:29:52
have a 

Morgan 1:29:52
And 

Bethany Pace 1:29:52
bestie, 

Morgan 1:29:53
you 

Bethany Pace 1:29:53
like you met your wife 

Morgan 1:29:53
night. You 

Bethany Pace 1:29:54
last 

Morgan 1:29:54
know, my best, 

Bethany Pace 1:29:55
which is wild. 

Morgan 1:29:57
Yeah, yes. Yeah, suit 

Bethany Pace 1:29:58
since early divorce. And now they're like inseparable. 

Morgan 1:30:00
Through her, literally she posted in the group, like has anyone gone through something like this? And I was like, oh, yeah, message me. And then she messaged me and we were talking. And I was like, girl, like I thought my situation was bad. Like, you're, I can't compare. And then, you know, we just kind of started. good. And now 

Bethany Pace 1:30:20
And now 

Morgan 1:30:21
we 

Bethany Pace 1:30:21
they're like, 

Morgan 1:30:21
see each other like every 

Bethany Pace 1:30:21
day. Like Batman 

Morgan 1:30:23
and Robin. 

Rich Bennett 1:30:25
Wow. 

Bethany Pace 1:30:25
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:30:27
See. 

Bethany Pace 1:30:27
And Matt and I will be 

Morgan 1:30:28
with 

Bethany Pace 1:30:28
friends 

Morgan 1:30:29
you guys. But you guys started. 

Matt 1:30:30
Our 

Bethany Pace 1:30:30
old ass is because we're 

Hillary Livingston 1:30:31
on our way. 

Matt 1:30:33
I 

Hillary Livingston 1:30:33
Uh-huh. 

Matt 1:30:33
think, I think is a little different though for men. I think it's harder. It's from my perspective, generalizing. But I think it's harder for men when they're older to make friends. And to engage with other men. I don't know what it is, I wish I knew what that is. But I am friends with 50 women. And, Plutonic friends, you know, like, and I have like one guy. Um, so it's very, very, very difficult to be able. And I think a lot of it has to do with when you're partnered with somebody, and this is once again, generalizing the women can drive the partner relationships. 

Rich Bennett 1:31:18
And 

Matt 1:31:20
the spouse. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then when the marriage ends, all that could disappear, uh, like the friends of the of the marriage. And then the men, it's very hard 

Bethany Pace 1:31:34
Yeah. 

Matt 1:31:34
like, we've got to join a gunclaw. Or the Lions' club. Or like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:31:37
Like, 

Matt 1:31:38
like, like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:31:38
we're 

Matt 1:31:38
how 

Hillary Livingston 1:31:38
not 

Matt 1:31:38
do 

Hillary Livingston 1:31:38
a 

Matt 1:31:38
you 

Hillary Livingston 1:31:38
gunclaw. 

Matt 1:31:39
like? 

Morgan 1:31:39
Like, 

Matt 1:31:40
how do you like meet dudes? 

Rich Bennett 1:31:42
I think it's a protective thing. I, I know for it because 

Matt 1:31:45
you get what I'm saying. 

Rich Bennett 1:31:46
a lot more women friends 

Bethany Pace 1:31:47
men, 

Rich Bennett 1:31:47
than and especially since, you know, we started covering and talking to people in recovery and talking about mental health and all that. 

No, seriously, but that's the way I even, when it comes, there's a couple of women recovery, and I tell you look, you guys, I look at you guys like a daughter, you know, and I don't want to see anything happen to you. 

Bethany Pace 1:32:25
I 

Rich Bennett 1:32:26
think that's what it is. I think it's like a protective thing. You 

Matt 1:32:29
big 

Rich Bennett 1:32:29
feel like a 

Matt 1:32:29
thing. 

Rich Bennett 1:32:31
You are 

Bethany Pace 1:32:31
fine. 

Matt 1:32:31
men? 

Rich Bennett 1:32:31
a 

Matt 1:32:32
Yeah, I know 

Rich Bennett 1:32:33
For me, 

Matt 1:32:33
I agree with that, that part, but what about the other side? 

Rich Bennett 1:32:37
for the 

Matt 1:32:37
Why is it so, why is it so hard for. 

Rich Bennett 1:32:39
You know why? I'm 

Matt 1:32:40
hitting that relationship with, uh, with males. 

Rich Bennett 1:32:43
Because a lot of men are afraid to open up about things. You and I are not afraid to open up about things. Other men see that and they think it's a weakness, and it's not, it's a strength. 

Morgan 1:32:54
And I've heard that from some of the guys that I've met in the group, so like your experience is not, I don't think, unique, but they've said, you know, it's hard. 

Hillary Livingston 1:33:03
Somebody just posted about 

Morgan 1:33:05
Yeah, it's yeah to meet 

Hillary Livingston 1:33:06
that. 

Morgan 1:33:06
other guys going through it and they've even said, I think it's because you know, we don't like put ourselves. out there like that. 

Hillary Livingston 1:33:13
Right 

Morgan 1:33:14
Like women do. 

Bethany Pace 1:33:17
that's just what you're taught culture, like living in society, like, 

Rich Bennett 1:33:20
And 

Bethany Pace 1:33:20
or, okay, you're just kind of wired that way. 

Rich Bennett 1:33:24
Yeah, I mean, 

Morgan 1:33:26
I mean, they're out there looking 

Matt 1:33:28
here watching Morgan talk. And the way you talked about your friend, who we know we're talking about, you don't want to bring your name up, but, it just seems so nice and so easy and you have, and I'm 

Rich Bennett 1:33:40
but, 

Matt 1:33:40
like looking at you, learning for something like 

Rich Bennett 1:33:43
that. 

Matt 1:33:44
So, 

Morgan 1:33:45
so, so they're out there. 

Matt 1:33:46
know, yeah, 

Morgan 1:33:46
I 

Matt 1:33:46
you know, and it's like 

Morgan 1:33:47
that are looking 

Matt 1:33:48
So 

Morgan 1:33:48
to 

Matt 1:33:49
when I've done, and I've done things like join this group, join the cycling club, I just got my, my concealed license weapon and blah, blah, blah, and I'm going to join a gun club and like, I'm trying to figure out how to like fill my bucket 

Rich Bennett 1:34:03
it. 

Matt 1:34:03
with man with, with men. 

Rich Bennett 1:34:06
It's 

Matt 1:34:07
not like, it's, 

Bethany Pace 1:34:09
mean, we should do it. We should do a tabling event at a gun club. Since 

Hillary Livingston 1:34:12
I 

Bethany Pace 1:34:13
we divorced and just have the men like self 

Hillary Livingston 1:34:14
identifying, 

Bethany Pace 1:34:16
they 

Matt 1:34:17
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:34:17
won't 

Matt 1:34:18
I 

Bethany Pace 1:34:18
come. 

Matt 1:34:18
would love to see with a return rate on that, because if Rich is correct, they're not going to come to you. Like, that would kind of be weird. I don't know. That would be a 

Bethany Pace 1:34:27
They 

Matt 1:34:28
cool 

Bethany Pace 1:34:28
won't, 

Matt 1:34:28
thing to like think about. 

Morgan 1:34:29
You got to like bring some 

Matt 1:34:30
this one in middle river. There's a gun club in middle river. 

Morgan 1:34:32
Ambassador, 

Bethany Pace 1:34:33
I got to bring a man in the back, because I feel like 

Morgan 1:34:35
do 

Bethany Pace 1:34:35
I'm 

Morgan 1:34:35
you? 

Bethany Pace 1:34:36
going over to the plan. 

Morgan 1:34:38
do you put yourself 

Bethany Pace 1:34:38
I 

Morgan 1:34:38
out there? Are you 

Matt 1:34:39
thought 

Morgan 1:34:39
like, 

Bethany Pace 1:34:40
we 

Morgan 1:34:40
hey, 

Bethany Pace 1:34:40
would be 

Morgan 1:34:40
let's 

Bethany Pace 1:34:40
like, 

Morgan 1:34:40
go grab a I 

Bethany Pace 1:34:43
think 

Rich Bennett 1:34:44
men, some men will be open to talking to you, but some men still have to put on that 

Bethany Pace 1:34:50
masculine thing. 

Rich Bennett 1:34:51
Like they're not going to open up about a lot of things. 

Matt 1:34:55
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:34:57
Like, are you putting yourself out there? Like let's, let's go do 

Matt 1:35:02
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:35:02
it. 

Matt 1:35:02
And then it happens once and then it's like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:35:04
it doesn't happen. 

Matt 1:35:05
And then guys just don't have the energy to do it again. Like, we're okay watching Netflix, or okay, just like doing 

Morgan 1:35:10
And 

Matt 1:35:11
nothing. 

Morgan 1:35:11
I think that's like the key, because even I'm the type of person that I'm like, I wait for other people to like come to me, and I've had to learn to be like, if you want to go do something, just text somebody and ask them, and nine times out of ten. And they're like, yeah, Let's go. And I, you know, met up with people I've, you know, met through the group, just chatting and messages. Like, let's go grab a drink, let's go grab dinner, whatever, 

Matt 1:35:37
sure. 

Morgan 1:35:38
which is uncomfortable for me to want to ask for people, because I'm like afraid of rejection. And then it's uncomfortable for me to go like, talk one on one with like a stranger, because I'm like, I'm awkward. But that's how, you know, that's how I like met people and then I get like, you got to keep 

Matt 1:35:53
for 

Morgan 1:35:53
asking 

Matt 1:35:53
an awkward rejection 

Morgan 1:35:54
doing it. 

Hillary Livingston 1:35:54
But I'm going to do it. 

Morgan 1:35:56
Yeah, people are also waiting for you, 

Matt 1:35:58
yes, 

Hillary Livingston 1:35:58
yeah, 

Morgan 1:35:58
to come to them, but it's like the up, the upkeep. But once you get it going, 

Matt 1:36:03
and be 

Morgan 1:36:03
like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:36:03
kind of 

Morgan 1:36:04
but you got to get it going. 

Matt 1:36:05
being like the extrovert and being a people person doing it, I have no problem doing that. 

Rich Bennett 1:36:09
And 

Morgan 1:36:10
But it's like work. Yes, it's work at first. 

Rich Bennett 1:36:14
Maybe that's it, maybe 

Morgan 1:36:15
trying to 

Rich Bennett 1:36:15
you're 

Morgan 1:36:15
put the work in. 

Matt 1:36:16
No, I think it needs more work. And I don't have the energy for it. 

Morgan 1:36:22
That. 

Bethany Pace 1:36:23
Video games, we heard video games, like a lot of people get on discord or whatever and 

Rich Bennett 1:36:27
they, uh, yeah, 

Morgan 1:36:28
well that was my whole thing with when they started doing, 

Matt 1:36:31
I 

Morgan 1:36:32
feel like it, trivia isn't my thing, but it's like a day, it's Tuesdays and I don't ever have my kids on Tuesdays and it's like, I don't want to go, but every week I was like, but just go, 'cause it's like two hours at your time and that's how you're gonna develop, you know, friendships with people, it's seeing the same people, 

Hillary Livingston 1:36:49
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:36:49
every-- 

Rich Bennett 1:36:50
Are you, are you friends with the guys in your neighborhood, 

Matt 1:36:53
where you live? No, we just built a home in our neighborhood, 

Rich Bennett 1:36:56
know-- Oh, 

Matt 1:36:56
so we don't 

Rich Bennett 1:36:56
oh, that's right, that's 

Matt 1:36:57
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:36:57
right. 

Matt 1:36:57
so we don't know anybody. 

Rich Bennett 1:36:59
Okay, 

Matt 1:36:59
so, uh, 

Rich Bennett 1:37:00
how many neighbors do you have? 

Matt 1:37:01
I have, well, in the strip I have five, and I talk to them, I don't, you know, I don't go 

Rich Bennett 1:37:06
all. 

Matt 1:37:06
out 

Rich Bennett 1:37:07
Grille, 

Matt 1:37:07
with it I have a nice grill, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:37:09
all right, that's all 

Matt 1:37:10
all right, 

Rich Bennett 1:37:10
you 

Matt 1:37:10
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:37:10
got to do, man, pull the 

Matt 1:37:11
after-- 

Rich Bennett 1:37:11
grill To your driveway, start grilling. 

Morgan 1:37:16
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 1:37:16
I'm-- 

Morgan 1:37:16
I have, I have like a, uh, uh, uh, uh, person to connect you with. 

Matt 1:37:22
Okay. 

Morgan 1:37:23
Perhaps. 

Hillary Livingston 1:37:24
What if it's an action? 

Morgan 1:37:25
Right. Community 

Bethany Pace 1:37:27
and action right now. 

Matt 1:37:27
All right. 

Morgan 1:37:28
Yes. And then he could connect you with some other people, because he was part of, like, this Maryland singles thing, and I met 

Hillary Livingston 1:37:37
I 

Morgan 1:37:37
some of the 

Hillary Livingston 1:37:37
know 

Morgan 1:37:37
people from that group. And there was, like, an older gentleman that I met, like, on to 

Matt 1:37:42
you're 

Morgan 1:37:43
occasion, who he's fun. And he's super 

Matt 1:37:44
[inaudible] 

Morgan 1:37:44
fun, and he seems like willing to go out, like, we were at Loony's a couple of weeks ago, and he was dancing, having a good time, like he's all about having a good time. So, and I don't know, I don't know where he lives, but he might be down close to your way, but I'll, you know. 

Rich Bennett 1:38:00
And Matt, we'll talk when we're 

Matt 1:38:02
All 

Rich Bennett 1:38:02
done. 

Matt 1:38:02
right, cool, I 

Rich Bennett 1:38:03
got your 

Bethany Pace 1:38:04
We 

Rich Bennett 1:38:04
hook. 

Bethany Pace 1:38:04
have a couple of connects, but I love the grit. We can do it since you only divorced event at your place. 

Matt 1:38:09
Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:38:10
Like, you pull out the grill. I mean, again, not really, like, not just any randoms, but it would be kind of cool to connect people, right? Like, if we say, like, hey, we're going to meet 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:18
up at 

Bethany Pace 1:38:18
this, this is a private 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:19
like, 

Bethany Pace 1:38:20
event, 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:20
a bring a friend 

Bethany Pace 1:38:21
Like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:21
of. 

Bethany Pace 1:38:21
a bring a friend kind of thing, gathering now would be cool. And 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:25
if we adopt a park, I mean. 

Rich Bennett 1:38:28
Yeah, especially 

Matt 1:38:31
if 

Rich Bennett 1:38:32
it's a part of the civilian grant. 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:36
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:38:36
yeah. But still, 

Matt 1:38:37
I mean, 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:38
personally, 

Rich Bennett 1:38:38
park clean, or better yet, maybe not instead of renting the pavilion. 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:42
That's the 

Matt 1:38:43
day you 

Rich Bennett 1:38:44
schedule a park 

Bethany Pace 1:38:44
clean. 

Rich Bennett 1:38:47
And you 

Bethany Pace 1:38:47
family. 

Rich Bennett 1:38:47
have your 

Morgan 1:38:49
Sincerely divorced block party, I actually have a great 

Hillary Livingston 1:38:52
yeah, 

Morgan 1:38:53
great neighborhood for that. Circle. There's a big grassy area in the middle. 

Hillary Livingston 1:39:01
Go there, 

Morgan 1:39:02
go there and pretend like we're at a park. 

Hillary Livingston 1:39:04
I'm working on it. 

Rich Bennett 1:39:05
Or notes here in 

Matt 1:39:06
a minute. 

Rich Bennett 1:39:06
I was looking at the time too. So I got one quick question for Morgan. 

Morgan 1:39:12
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:39:13
because you're five minutes late, 

Matt 1:39:14
you 

Rich Bennett 1:39:15
want to go to that first virtual thing or the coffee thing and all that. How did they, how did they convince you to come into this when they first told you what was your first. 

Morgan 1:39:25
Well, I think I was like, yeah, sure, sounds fun. This is what I always do. Who knows whenever you texted me if I had been drinking and I was like. 

Hillary Livingston 1:39:35
Who 

Morgan 1:39:36
I am. I'm like sounds. Everything sounds great. And then I'm like, what did I just sign myself. 

Matt 1:39:40
And wait this morning you texted you said, I'm Loki, hoping that this doesn't occur 

Morgan 1:39:44
said. 

Matt 1:39:44
and you 

Morgan 1:39:47
Last night at Hopkins when I saw you guys because you you message me like a week or two ago like what's your email address. And I was like, she never emailed me and maybe it's not happening. And then I was like, I should ask, because this thing is happening tomorrow last night. And I was like, I don't 

Hillary Livingston 1:40:02
want to draw 

Morgan 1:40:03
attention to it. 

But you know, it's once I get going, it's fine, 

Bethany Pace 1:40:10
it's fine. It's just 

Hillary Livingston 1:40:10
that initial first step. It's always 

Morgan 1:40:12
exactly. 

Hillary Livingston 1:40:14
But we're glad you're here. 

Bethany Pace 1:40:15
Right, we need to be a writer. 

Morgan 1:40:16
And my whole thing, too, lately is like just step out of your comfort zone because the best things have come from me stepping out of my comfort zone. And that's how you really like grow, that's what I'm learning, like that's how you grow it. Like the woo woo Emilys, woo-woo event at Dos. Like, I wouldn't have gone, if you know, breed and dragged me along. But I got there and I was like, oh my god, like we're gonna like interact with the other people here and like tell them our manifestations. But like, you know, you just got to put yourself out there. You do. Otherwise, like I'd be sitting at home. If I never, you know, join 

Hillary Livingston 1:40:54
the zoo. 

Morgan 1:40:54
The zoo might be sitting at home with no friends right now. 

Bethany Pace 1:40:57
No risk, no reward. 

Morgan 1:40:58
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 1:41:05
Yeah. Yeah. No. I know. 

Bethany Pace 1:41:06
everyone tells you to essentially do. Oh, marriage marriage is hard. You gotta just stick it out like like like there's some prize or some like 

Morgan 1:41:13
Yeah. It's like you tell 

Bethany Pace 1:41:13
purple heart. 

Morgan 1:41:27
Because it's like the the devil you know is, 

Hillary Livingston 1:41:30
Yeah. 

Morgan 1:41:30
you know 

Bethany Pace 1:41:30
that's better you think. 

Morgan 1:41:31
Better maybe or not than the devil you don't it's at least less scary to think about the devil you know because you're like I know this like I know what to expect but. You gotta put yourself out 

Bethany Pace 1:41:42
there. Yeah. Yeah because the reward is amazing. 

Hillary Livingston 1:41:45
The the glow 

Morgan 1:41:45
the 

Bethany Pace 1:41:45
And 

Hillary Livingston 1:41:46
up is real. 

Morgan 1:41:46
the 

Bethany Pace 1:41:46
that's 

Morgan 1:41:46
glow 

Bethany Pace 1:41:46
what we 

Morgan 1:41:46
up 

Bethany Pace 1:41:46
try to 

Morgan 1:41:47
is 

Bethany Pace 1:41:47
tell 

Morgan 1:41:47
real. 

Bethany Pace 1:41:47
That's I mean not yet. It is because now we can see Matt's not seeing you. It's not seeing you. Yeah. Seeing you for the glorious soul that you are. 

Rich Bennett 1:41:59
I'm 

Bethany Pace 1:42:00
living the 

Morgan 1:42:03
living. 

Bethany Pace 1:42:03
Yeah. 

Matt 1:42:04
Yeah. I said it 

Bethany Pace 1:42:05
first. Yeah. Matt said it 

Matt 1:42:06
first. 

Rich Bennett 1:42:07
Okay. Oh that note. Before I dig myself deeper. Tell everybody the website. Yeah, they can get in touch with you. 

Hillary Livingston 1:42:15
You can find us on Instagram and Facebook and there's a link to our private group on Facebook on the Facebook page. So we just that is and that is a space that we reserve just for people that have been impacted directly by the more. So there's no print divorce professionals in there. It's just people that are in it or have been in it or are thinking about being in it. 

Bethany Pace 1:42:40
Right. Right. it may take you a couple times to spell sincerely properly because there's a lot of e the R E thing. It gets us tripped up all the time. 

Hillary Livingston 1:42:50
And 

Bethany Pace 1:42:50
So just make sure you're you know it's spelling. Yeah, but on our website, sincerity divorce.com, we have a calendar of events that. Describe 

Hillary Livingston 1:42:59
to it's free to 

Matt 1:43:00
subscribe. 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:00
So we send hope notes every Thursday and I promise it's bite sized. It's just like little tiny bits of information about either an event, a resource, a funny real good song, just all just stuff that we've collected from the community or we put out in the community over the last week. So we don't like over. We promise it over. But we do do hope not every hope notes every Friday. 

Rich Bennett 1:43:26
Who knows not 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:28
hope 

Matt 1:43:28
sorry. 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:28
not. Yeah, I lost my word a little bit there, but yeah, hope notes. 

Morgan 1:43:32
And the sweet notes you send the email. 

Bethany Pace 1:43:35
We do. We send our handwritten notes. 

Matt 1:43:37
Yes, that was right. I did. Yeah. 

Bethany Pace 1:43:42
Oh, 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:43
were you are 

Matt 1:43:43
next. 

Bethany Pace 1:43:44
We written you though. I was like, Rich, did you not get one? I was going to say you're going to get another. 

Rich Bennett 1:43:48
I'm that 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:49
we 

Rich Bennett 1:43:49
I'm 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:49
got. We have up our game. We've 

Rich Bennett 1:43:51
so 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:51
up our game. 

Rich Bennett 1:43:52
My email. 

Morgan 1:43:52
When I first got it, I was 

Bethany Pace 1:43:53
it's 

Morgan 1:43:54
like to 

Bethany Pace 1:43:54
like a 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:56
hell. 

Rich Bennett 1:43:57
Well, 

Bethany Pace 1:43:57
you got that right? 

Hillary Livingston 1:43:58
You know, but we've up 

Bethany Pace 1:44:00
there. 

Matt 1:44:00
We've up there. 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:01
We I've been into wax sealing Reese. 

Morgan 1:44:04
Yes, that was very nice. I was trying not to destroy it. 

Rich Bennett 1:44:07
Oh, okay. 

Bethany Pace 1:44:08
I don't know if I 

Morgan 1:44:09
it. 

Bethany Pace 1:44:10
did. I wrote 

Morgan 1:44:11
I am 

Bethany Pace 1:44:12
a sticker. 

Matt 1:44:13
Yeah, it was 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:13
sticker. 

Matt 1:44:13
a 

Morgan 1:44:14
He's thinking about 

Rich Bennett 1:44:16
Oh waxing. I'm like, 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:17
waxing. 

Rich Bennett 1:44:17
oh, hell no, there ain't nobody. 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:18
Yeah, 

Bethany Pace 1:44:19
wax seals. 

Morgan 1:44:19
It's 

Matt 1:44:20
actually really good. 

Rich Bennett 1:44:22
What? 

Matt 1:44:22
No wax. That's fine. 

Rich Bennett 1:44:23
No. 

Matt 1:44:23
There's no problems with my brows. Agreed. 

Morgan 1:44:26
They do look 

Bethany Pace 1:44:27
nice. 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:28
Oh, 

Morgan 1:44:28
browns. 

Bethany Pace 1:44:29
Man's Gate. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:44:31
Ah, 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:32
right. 

Rich Bennett 1:44:32
all 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:32
Oh, 

Matt 1:44:33
God, 

Rich Bennett 1:44:34
ladies, Matt. 

Bethany Pace 1:44:38
Thank 

Matt 1:44:38
Thank you. 

Bethany Pace 1:44:38
you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Red. 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:40
Oh, we 

Bethany Pace 1:44:41
love 

Hillary Livingston 1:44:41
love 

Bethany Pace 1:44:41
you. 

Matt 1:44:43
you. We

Hillary Livingston 1:44:43
Thank

Wendy & Rich 1:44:43
Thank you for listening to the Conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love it if you can leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at Conversations with Rich Bennett dot com for giveaways and more. Until next time, take care, be kind and keep the conversations going. You know, it takes a lot to put a podcast together. and my sponsors help add a lot, but I also have some supporters that actually help me when it comes to the editing software, the hosting, and so forth. There's a lot that goes into putting this together. So I want to thank them and if you can please please visit their websites, visit their businesses, support them, however you can. so please visit the following. Real-life prosthetics. Cutting-edge solutions. Restoring ability since 2001. Go to reallifeprostetics.com. Full circle boards. Nobody does charcuterie like full circle boards. Visit them at fullcircleboards.com. Sincerely, Sincerely, so your photography. Live in the moment. They'll capture it. Visit them at sincerelysoyer.com.