Inside the Amazing Wondrous Mind of Author Tory Gates

Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Hartford County living presents conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Rich Bennett 0:35
For 

today's guests, as someone who understands that kind of storytelling, Tory Gates has been crafting young adult, new adult in contemporary fiction since 2013. Building worlds that take readers from exotic destinations to everyday coffee shops all while tackling real life issues that matter. He's the award-winning author of How the Story Ends, the sweet dream series, a moment in the sun, life from the café, and a whole lot more, and even his newest win legend of the black swan. But Tory doesn't just tell stories on the page. He spent more than four decades behind a microphone as a journalist, regional anchor for NBC News Radio, podcast host, and producer from fiction to medical journalism, from broadcast news to independent publishing, he lives at the intersection of storytelling and truth. And if you're wondering where the best ideas are born, there is a very good chance and involves strong coffee and a quiet corner table. So you know what I'm going to say? Grab your coffee. Tea. Burberry. Whatever it is you're drinking. If it's early in the morning, hopefully it's just coffee or tea or hot chocolate, and sit back because you're really going to enjoy this. How's it going there, Tory? 

Tory Gates 2:03
Well, I can't complain too much rich and thank you for the intro and for having me on. 

Rich Bennett 2:09
Well, you can always complain but nobody's going to listen. Isn't that how it always works? All right, so I want to talk about the shift from broadcasts or the novelist would actually pulled you from reporting facts to creating fictional worlds. 

Tory Gates 2:25
Well, it was a very short step and yet it took several years. And I mean when I started broadcasting, I was still in college, I was still a freshman in college and I just very luckily landed a weekend shift somewhere, right as I was getting started and I was able to just kind of do that. And I was a radio geek. I mean, it was the first thing in my life that had never been handed to me and it was more like this can be yours if you want it. And I'd always been fascinated and interested in radio but never thought I could do it. The long story short was I thought I was going to be a DJ for a long time and I was digits about every music format there was but eventually things changed and I learned you have to adapt to the business and to the jobs that are available. So I mean, after a few years of doing that, I started writing, I mean, I was writing news copy and I was I was one of the news people for my college radio station. I started writing sports copy for a morning show news guy just to help him out and to have something to do. And after a while, I got a chance to do news for a small station, I got a chance to start producing other people shows and I suddenly realized that hey, I can do different things here. So the writing and the storytelling is something that you do it when you do a break as a DJ, you do it when you're doing a new story, you do it when you're just talking to someone and 

Rich Bennett 4:01
you 

Tory Gates 4:03
learn over time, how to tell a story with a certain amount of conciseness or if you need to elaborate. Anyway, I had done that for several years and I got an idea to try to write something longer in the 90s I had written a sci fi novel and. 

Rich Bennett 4:24
Okay. 

Tory Gates 4:24
It was pretty awful and it was basically, it was basically a very, it was kind of like Star Trek fan fiction only with different names and my high flute and idea of what kind of space in universe I would create never really went anywhere. 

Rich Bennett 4:38
Right. 

Tory Gates 4:38
And I even had an agent take a look at it and she initially liked it and then they basically told me everything that was wrong with it and I just put it away and I just kind of forgot about it. And in the mid 90s, my life changed, I was married, I had some different work and I was just busy all the time. 

Rich Bennett 4:57
Right. 

Tory Gates 4:58
I still continue with my radio career in different levels and so forth. And I just suddenly found an opportunity, it wasn't until 2007 that I suddenly had the opportunity to actually sit down a little bit and have some time to think and have some time to try an idea out. And I had these really weird threads of a story and you talked about the Sweet Dream series. This is where it all began. 

Rich Bennett 5:24
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 5:25
I had three or four weird ideas and I started trying to put them together and the title of the first book of the trilogy searching for Roy Buchanan stuck as a title and I didn't know why. And then all of a sudden this thing wrote itself in about a month and I have not stopped writing since then. It's not an iI thing but I have not quit writing since then. The process just keeps coming, which is really cool. And it took a 

Rich Bennett 5:56
Right. 

Tory Gates 5:56
few more years before anything was was published but it it has happened. And for me it's a side hustle yes but for me it's an extension of my creativity. It's the best use of my spare time and it's an awful lot of fun. 

Rich Bennett 6:14
I it's one thing. I've always wanted to try but never have yet. I mean I've tried it was like I'll start and then put it down I guess like sort of like what you did eventually I'm going to get back to it now. Craig me have a role but parasite girls was your first book, right? 

Tory Gates 6:32
Yes this was self-published. I published it through 

Rich Bennett 6:37
Okay. 

Tory Gates 6:37
Amazon and through what used to be called Smashwords and I think it's now draft a digit. 

Rich Bennett 6:42
Oh wow. 

Tory Gates 6:42
Something like that and that's like a digital platform of any type. You can get the book there. I had written that in like 2010 or 11 and 

Rich Bennett 6:53
Mm hmm. 

Tory Gates 6:54
I 

decided that would be the first book I put out and it was because a close friend of mine said to me after all these things that I was continually writing she said to me you got to kick one of your birds out of the nest. You got a self-publish because no one's going to listen to you, no one's going to pay any attention to you. You need something and I thought well you're right. So, Paraseid Girls was very simple because it had only four major characters. It was a fairly quick read and I felt that it would be understandable by a lot of people and we got a fantastic cover artist. My friend Alice passed me along to an artist named Mitchell Bentley who is now retired but she did all of my covers up to how the story ends and and that not including that one. But Mitchell was an 

Rich Bennett 7:53
right. 

Tory Gates 7:53
amazing artist and we had a cover. We had you know and then I I was like how do I do this? Well, you throw it out there and then you just try to find places to do it and Paraseid Girls reflected my writing at that point because it's said in Japan and the basic story is very simple. It's a burnt out American journalist named Aiden who nearly got killed on his last assignment so on a whim he goes to Japan. And he hooks up with an old friend from college and he falls back into this woman's life and the term Paraseid Girls is a rip on the term Paraseid Single. That's an actual term. Paraseid Single was come up with by a doctor Yamada. I think his name is Hiroshi Yamada and he reflected years ago on the idea that now in Japan there's very set structures on life. You either live alone or you live with your family or you get married and so forth. He had noticed that a lot of young people, particularly women after they finished school and even if they got jobs, we're still living in home where their parents. They weren't going out and trying to find a place to live. They weren't trying to get married to the traditional things and 

Rich Bennett 9:13
Right. 

Tory Gates 9:13
he called them Paraseid Shingles which to me was unfair because everybody has a reason for that. So Aiden's friend is kind of sort of called that and this person Mema her best friends are considered Paraseids. Well Aiden thinks everybody's got a story and my job is to tell them so as he's trying to figure out how to remake his career because he's disgusted with what he's turned into. and he starts falling into each person's lives. Everybody has a reason for the things that they do. And I was able to look into Japanese society mostly from a distance, but with some research, and also tackle mental illness, tackle health issues, tackle why do people do things the way they do? And it turned out fairly well. I think there were some cultural errors, but minor ones at best. And I mean, I didn't sell enough, but it got some interest and it 

Rich Bennett 10:13
Right. 

Tory Gates 10:13
eventually led me to Sunbury Press books a couple of years later, who later signed me, and we went from there. 

Rich Bennett 10:22
So what did that first book actually teach you about yourself? We write it. 

Tory Gates 10:26
Well, I had already completed manuscripts, but now 

Rich Bennett 10:30
Okay. 

Tory Gates 10:30
it's said to me, okay, have done it. You've got it. You've got the book in hand. Now what are you going to do? And 

Rich Bennett 10:38
you 

Tory Gates 10:38
you turned to all of your varied promotional ideas that you've picked up through your life. At the time, for several years, I had played in a local band called Altira. We were kind of like a new age rock band. And we had split in 2010 around the time the book came out, I think. And I stuck together with a couple of my bandmates. We changed their names to the Dharma Fools, and we leaned over toward folk rock and some original tunes and things like that. And I got this idea. We played my bass player, Jennifer Schirra, and I played a place. And I told her this idea. I said, I want to read little passages of the book, like during our set. And she was like, okay. And so what she did was, Jenna's an amazing musician. We did this in a rehearsal. I just started reading. She puts the bass down. She picks up my guitar. And she just starts noodling and starts improving under it. 

Rich Bennett 11:41
Oh 

Tory Gates 11:42
I was 

Rich Bennett 11:42
wow. 

Tory Gates 11:42
like, do that. And we did that a few times. It didn't sell any books, but people thought it was kind of different and it was kind of interesting. And I thought, here's a way to try. And you know, you try to use social media. You try to pump your sources different ways. You talk to your radio friends and see if they'll do an interview and that sort of thing. It's a process that I have repeated over the years, but I'm always trying to augment it and make it a little bit different. And with each book, you have something more to talk about. So that's 

Rich Bennett 12:14
it. 

Tory Gates 12:14
really 

Rich Bennett 12:14
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 12:14
how 

Rich Bennett 12:16
That's pretty awesome. I would have never thought about that. But I like that idea reading the book with and playing underneath. And one of the latest things, well, I'm sure it's been done for years. But you're starting to see people authors make book trailers. Video book trailers too, which I think is brilliant. 

Tory Gates 12:35
Yes, 

Rich Bennett 12:36
they just need to start getting all more podcasts, or radio, and you know, promote 

Tory Gates 12:40
them. I have I've made a few of them. I've made I made ones for the Sweet Dream series. 

Rich Bennett 12:46
Okay, 

Tory Gates 12:47
And I am not a video person and I don't I can audio edit, I can electronic edit, 

Rich Bennett 12:53
right. 

Tory Gates 12:53
I can edit tape, you know, I was one of the last to learn razor blades and tape and all that. So it's 

Rich Bennett 12:58
Oh 

Tory Gates 12:58
like, I can 

Rich Bennett 12:59
my 

Tory Gates 12:59
do 

Rich Bennett 12:59
god, 

Tory Gates 12:59
that. 

Rich Bennett 12:59
the real the reals. 

Tory Gates 13:01
I can do that, but it was like video was really hard for me, and 

Rich Bennett 13:05
Yeah, 

Tory Gates 13:05
it was a lot of work. I mean, I'm glad I did it, but at the same time, I thought, hum, and now what's even better is, well, I don't care too much for social media as it's become on TikTok, on some of these other video platforms, and on Instagram, you can put together in no time, little trailers, little ideas, and those If they're really short, and they're to the point, they will get attention. And 

Rich Bennett 13:33
right. 

Tory Gates 13:34
you have to sort of get over the fear of, oh, is this going to be obnoxious? Is this going to be a pain in the ass? Is this going to just keep doing it? But it is how you do it. And repetition catches more people, and you hope that more people are like, Hey, what is he doing? What is this? You know, and you go 

Rich Bennett 13:51
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 13:51
for it for that. 

Rich Bennett 13:53
you. Yeah. And the other thing is to with social media, even with doing the trailers on that, that's the whole thing is gotta grab somebody's attention, 

Tory Gates 14:02
I tried it for 

Rich Bennett 14:03
which, 

Tory Gates 14:04
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 14:05
which will keep it coming back up in people's feeds. Otherwise, it just goes away and you don't see it. And I think YouTube, not YouTube, Facebook. If I'm not mistaken, they just started to wear now, or maybe just for a live video. But when you do a video, it's gone with within, I want to say like 30 days. That might just be for live 

Tory Gates 14:28
I 

Rich Bennett 14:28
ones. 

Tory Gates 14:28
think that they have done that and they've been doing that recently 

Rich Bennett 14:32
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 14:32
and I quit Facebook and Twitter last year because I just got sick of it and 

Rich Bennett 14:38
Yeah. Uh, 

Tory Gates 14:38
tomorrow a phrase it didn't draw me a dime. I don't think it 

Rich Bennett 14:42
no. 

Tory Gates 14:42
ever really resulted in any sales. I mean the one thing it did was it did let people know that yes, I'm still live after all 

Rich Bennett 14:52
Right. 

Tory Gates 14:52
these years and that this is what I do. But I just kind of switched over to I switched over to some different platforms and I try to focus on those and I try to focus a little more on the people that are in my circle. And let's see if we can push that out and see if maybe a few more people do it. The other thing, of course, and I think you would agree is the visual appearance getting out there and getting into the book fairs, getting into conventions and going into writer's conferences, that also is a huge help. 

Rich Bennett 15:28
Yeah, I had a young lady on and now she actually hosts her in podcasts. But I have she was on a few years ago, she wrote her first book and she was talking about how what she's doing is just going on all these different podcasts throughout the world. And she I forget how he contacted me a little bit later and before she wrote her second book and she was telling me how just going on all the different podcasts helped herself like thousands of books. Just getting to word out there because you're getting out worldwide. It's just like radio. You know, radio now. Yeah, usually you're on that in that local market. But if podcast it's going worldwide. And it's the best part. It's free. 

Tory Gates 16:20
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:21
You don't have to pay to get onto a podcast. 

Tory Gates 16:24
Well, you shouldn't have to there. There's 

Rich Bennett 16:26
you shouldn't have you. Yeah. 

Tory Gates 16:30
And I have to admit also that, I mean, I was skeptical of the podcast idea when it came about several years ago, I really didn't being an old guy. I was just kind of like, oh, come on, this isn't broadcasting. Then the more we started hearing them. And when I was and when Lawrence nor our publisher asked me to host one and I am now hosting, I'm co hosting another one and I'm producing the ones that Lawrence does, I was kind of like, dude, the last thing I want to do is a talk show. You know, the one thing I'm old enough now to say no, and I was just like, I mean, I have, I've hosted public affairs shows. I've been on talk shows and the last thing I want to do is host a show where the host insists on doing all the talking. 

Rich Bennett 17:15
Yeah, 

Tory Gates 17:16
and I have I can't stand it and he said, we'll make it the show that you want. And so I was like, okay, and I thought about it and I said, all right, let's have a cup. I'm an author. This person's an author. I'm going to let this person talk, tell about their books, tell about their influences, and we'll just have a good talk. And I'm happy to say that after these several years, it's finally starting to feel really smooth. It's starting to feel 

Rich Bennett 17:42
yeah, 

Tory Gates 17:42
like, now I can listen better and I am able to learn so much from authors, especially authors of other genres and styles because you know, each person is different, each person's influences are different. And while you might read some of the same books, you're coming from different angles. And that only 

Rich Bennett 18:04
Yeah, 

Tory Gates 18:04
makes you better, the more you read, the more you listen. 

Rich Bennett 18:08
Yeah, that's one of the things I love about talking to different authors and we've actually done, I've done an author's roundtable before where I've had several different authors on and they learn from each other you know, talking about their the research part, you know, the writing styles, especially the marketing. But yeah, it's a giant network. 

Tory Gates 18:32
Yes, and it's sometimes you find a place that doesn't really work for you, but like you might go to a writers group and you find out that you're not really getting anything out of it. That's okay. Go find another one. Go find 

Rich Bennett 18:44
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 18:44
someone else to talk with. And eventually you find the people that will encourage you. And you can help each other out. And I mean for me when I we talked about I think we we know each other from book fair at Bel Air. I'm going to be back there this year. I've always had a blast there. A lot of book events for me, I'm not so much concerned with how many books I sell as to how many people I can meet that I can make friends 

Rich Bennett 19:09
Yes. 

Tory Gates 19:09
with that might pick up my books if not today, maybe down the road, but also it's the people you talk to that you talk shop with that you do trade grenades with here's my book when we have yours and we sign each other's books. That's how I get guests from my podcast. This is a secret and they're fun, you know, and it's so much fun to go to those. I've gone to different conventions, different events and it's always fun to just talk to people and find out what they're reading, find out what they are interested in. Even if they're not into your kind of thing, it's like, OK, can I sell you on trying something a little bit different because I realize my 

Rich Bennett 19:51
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 19:52
books are my books are an acquired taste and I don't think there's anything terribly revolutionary or terribly outrageous in most of what I do. But I will tell stories. Some of them are my stories. Some of them are someone else's and I just try to tell good stories and I hope that people get entertained but also maybe they think a little bit. Maybe they find 

Rich Bennett 20:16
right 

Tory Gates 20:16
a person they recognize in there, maybe they see themselves and maybe that'll help them in some way or inspire them to write their own thing. 

Rich Bennett 20:26
So, do any of these people inspire you to write, you know, create these different characters because you guys are pretty cool 

Tory Gates 20:34
Well, 

Rich Bennett 20:34
characters. 

Tory Gates 20:35
I'm glad to hear that. I try really hard to create organic characters. 

Rich Bennett 20:42
OK, 

Tory Gates 20:43
the very few of my characters are based on one or two people and a lot of it is coming from my own experience, my own sort of examination of myself at various times in my life, but also the people around me and one of the things I do we talk about Well, I spend an inordinate amount of time in coffee places writing, editing, but I'm also watching. I'm kind of I'm not quite the guy that just sits there with a cup of coffee and stairs at people. I'm not that guy. But I'm always listening. I'm always listening to the people who walk through what are they talking about? And I'll look at them and be like, OK, what do they look like? What are they wearing? And I immediately think, hey, that looks like somebody. She could wear that. That's the kind of outfit she might wear, or she might look like that. That guy looks like someone and I'll just sort of keep those in my head. And eventually they show up at one of the fun things about character creation is I always look for what in my mind comes about with a character and if I get like an initial image, I think, all right, who is that? Is that somebody I know? What's the story with them? Sometimes a character just pops up in my consciousness and says, put me in your book. And I have to look at them and be like, OK, who are you? What do you want? And you know, you just you just build over time and very slowly the character sketches come about the details of what their light come about how do they talk? How do they dress? What do they look like? Is there something they do or say that makes them stand out? And what I try to do is everyone has a story. Everyone has a reason to be in there. And you might only see someone for a scene or two, but they've got a reason to be there. And I just kind of like lock them together like Legos. 

Rich Bennett 22:38
So has a character ever actually surprised you or even taken the story somewhere you didn't expect? 

Tory Gates 22:44
yes, that's happened quite a few times. 

Rich Bennett 22:47
OK, 

Tory Gates 22:47
I had I think probably the probably one of the most interesting ones. So searching for what you can and is the first book in the sweet dreams series. This didn't come out in 2019. It took many years and many rewrites to get that thing out. The second book in the series was called Call It Love. And one of the characters did exactly that character named Kia popped up right in front of me, complete formed. Look at me, and I'm like, who are you? I didn't know who it was. I had just finished the first book, or that draft, and I thought, well, I can't use you in this one, but maybe you can come in in the next one. And Kia very slowly became this very intriguing person who figured in the life of Akki, the main character and helped drive the music that runs all through the series, and Kia became someone who not only became kind of like a foil for Akki, she became herself. She became a very real person who got her opportunity to show that there was so much more to her that I didn't know about. And as I wrote that story, we find out here is someone who's got a whole backstory. It fits with the rest of story, and it augments the story, and it explains so much more, and it makes the story deeper. And that's the kind of thing that, comes only once in a great while. You get a person 

Rich Bennett 24:24
yeah, 

Tory Gates 24:24
that just becomes so dynamic. And in my new book, Legend of the Black Swan, there is a character. The main character is a girl named Aresa. There is a side character that years ago, when I started trying to write this story, I sent off the first 50 pages to an agent. The agent gets back to me and says, your side character, this musical student, this friend of Aresa's, she needs to be more dynamic. And I said, she becomes more dynamic as the story progresses. It's a person who is a character all herself already seems fully formed. And yet, you can tell something's not right with her, and she very slowly asserts herself and takes charge of things her life, and some of what's going on around Aresa. And she never takes over. She never butts in. She never pushes her way through. She just finds her place, which will help her, but also help Aresa and help drive the story. And she becomes that dynamic character, not in the first 50 pages, but as it goes. 

Rich Bennett 25:39
Right. Just 

Tory Gates 25:40
watch this person her strength just comes up out of her. And it makes everyone better. It makes the story far better. 

Rich Bennett 25:49
Wow. To Hello. Actually, I want to go back to the first 

Tory Gates 25:54
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 25:54
one. Parasite girls, how long did that take you to write? 

Tory Gates 25:57
Parasite girls. I think the first draft probably took a couple of months. It 

Rich Bennett 26:03
A of 

Tory Gates 26:04
might my my assembly process can take a long time. Usually, 

Rich Bennett 26:09
months. Right. 

Tory Gates 26:09
when it comes to an idea, I let an idea cook in my mind anywhere from a few months to a couple of years, because I want to make sure I'm not repeating myself. And I'm like, all right, what's going on here? What's this idea? Eventually, when it starts to take shape, I'll just start sketching out characters. I'll do full rundowns of the characters that I've got their names. What do they look like? What are their habits? And then I'll start to try to fit them together. And then eventually, I will do like a storyline. It's like a treatment. Chapter one will be this. 

Rich Bennett 26:38
Right. 

Tory Gates 26:39
Do this, this, this. And I'll write that out as much as I can. And then eventually, when I feel like I'm ready to go, I start writing. And then my method is, I'll write one chapter a day. No matter how long it is, if I 

Rich Bennett 26:56
Mm 

Tory Gates 26:56
keep 

Rich Bennett 26:56
hmm. 

Tory Gates 26:56
writing, that's a bonus. And I'll just work till I get it done searching for review. And in its first draft took a month, usually it takes about one to two months to get it finished. And then leave it alone for a little bit. Go back. And that's where the editing starts. And I just keep editing, you know, writing new scenes and that kind of thing. So each one has probably taken anywhere from one to two months, it averages out like that. 

Rich Bennett 27:23
So you got it, you got it down to basically a science to where almost I'm thinking of like when I edit the podcast for, when I first started, it took me forever. But now it's like, you have those stages or templates, if you will. And you just go like that. That's what it sounds like you're doing as well. 

Tory Gates 27:43
Yeah, it's, it's, 

Rich Bennett 27:43
it's pretty smart. 

Tory Gates 27:44
Well, it's the repetition. It's, 

Rich Bennett 27:46
repetition. 

Tory Gates 27:46
it's the 

Rich Bennett 27:47
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 27:47
me. And some people I have friends who just can sit down and just stream of consciousness pound out an idea and then 

Rich Bennett 27:56
back. 

Tory Gates 27:56
they'll go 

Rich Bennett 27:57
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 27:57
and write and if it works for you, great. I'm a little more, I don't wanna say discipline because I'm not. I'm more like, I just like to organize things a little bit. Kind of know who everyone is, kind of know where I wanna go and then as I'm writing, that will change. The scenes will change, I'll stop, I'll go back, I'll rewrite a piece because I just didn't like it or it didn't make sense. 

Rich Bennett 28:22
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 28:23
Sometimes I'll write however many pages and then I'll start at the beginning again and I'll go back and rewrite that because I'm like, okay, this doesn't make sense. This doesn't make sense, we need something here and then I'll get back to it. And the editing, I can't tell you how many times these stories are edited by me. 

Rich Bennett 28:44
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 28:44
I am my worst critic. 

Rich Bennett 28:46
Oh by you. 

Tory Gates 28:46
I am my worst critic. So I will beat the crap out of an edit again and again until it's smooth for me before ever anybody else looks at it. I just am that way. Some people are really good at one or two edits and they've got it and I don't know how they do that but hey if it works for you good. For me, I'm just a lot more careful. I'm a lot more, I look for repetitive words. I look for repetitive phrases. I look for if people start to talk the same as this other guy, that's too much of me. I have to get back into their voice. I have to get back into their character and be like what would he really say? What would she really do? And that's just part of the fun. To me, that's the fun is you're creating, you're crafting something and it may take a long time but go ahead, just keep doing it. Do the research, do what you need to do. 

Rich Bennett 29:44
So do you actually belong to a writer's group where you guys critique each other's work? 

Tory Gates 29:48
No, actually, I don't. I quite honestly just haven't had the time to do it. 

Rich Bennett 29:55
You're your own critic. 

Tory Gates 29:56
I am and occasionally I will have friends of mine take a look at things. And sort of throw a few things at certain people and say all right, what do you think of this? It's very hard to find someone willing to just read through the whole thing because who has the time. And 

Rich Bennett 30:12
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 30:13
I've been very fortunate to have exceptional editors through Sunbury over the years who have been fantastic at pointing things out and cleaning up my rotten grammar. 

Rich Bennett 30:25
(Dence laughs)

All right so Tori, I'm gonna put you on a spot in a way but out of all the books you've written so far, is there one that really, that is, you just, it's your favorite, that you just hold really close 

Tory Gates 30:43
in? 

Ooh, that's a tough one. There are two. 

Rich Bennett 30:45
I know, I figured it would be. 

Tory Gates 30:46
There are two, and I'll explain that. 

Rich Bennett 30:49
Okay. 

Tory Gates 30:49
For Right You Can and the first of the sweet dream series. And again, there's three. That one was the one that got me started. And I was able to write a really odd time travel story that was young adult, but appealed to other folks without even trying and included an emphasis on music, primarily blues music because that's just my favorite music and that's where Roy Buchanan came in, I guess. And I just wov a story that took several years to really get out. And to me, it's probably not the best thing I've ever written technically, but in terms of imagination and the wonder and the expansive nature of it is my favorite thing that I've written. And the two sequels, I think, stand out really well on their own, Call It Love and Shake Hands with a Devil. 

I wrote three others in the years that followed, but none of them were really very good. The fourth volume of the series, I am still writing. I have rewritten it like three or four times. It will be more of an historical novel when it comes out. It's gonna be very different. I can't even begin to 

Rich Bennett 32:04
Right. 

Tory Gates 32:04
tell you what that's gonna be like. But searching is that the other one is in fact, the book that got me signed a Sunbury press. It was my second one overall, a moment in the sun. This was kind of deeply personal and it came from again, the weirdest of threads. I have a fascination and an interest in Japan, partly because of my interest 

Rich Bennett 32:30
beautiful, 

Tory Gates 32:31
in history. I minored in history when I was in college. I've always loved history and it was the one subject in school that I was ever any good at. 

with regards to Japan, I took martial arts as a kid. So I was always interested in martial arts, I was interested in grappling, technical fighting, I was never any good at it, but I always found that really interesting. I became interested in anime and manga of different sorts through friends of mine, and eventually I discovered the music movements in Japan. We have traditional music over there of course, but legend of the Black Swan is sort of my tribute to the Japanese Powerpop movement, which is just an amazing wellspring of music that we would recognize, but they put their own spin on it. 

Rich Bennett 33:26
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 33:26
Powerpop, Pete Towneson is the one who came up with the term in 1966, to 

Rich Bennett 33:32
really, 

Tory Gates 33:33
he did that too as I write in the forward of Black Swan, he came up with the term PowerPop to describe the music of the Huu, as well as the small faces and bands like that in the mid-60s, and at least it's attributed to him. 

Rich Bennett 33:48
And 

Tory Gates 33:49
the Japanese Powerpop movement is heavily influenced by the Beatles, by the Rolling Stones, later on by Oasis, and they put their own spin on it, but there's so much more. There's the jazz and the classical and the blues and all of these different genres that we recognize, they make their own and there's such incredible music that comes out of there. I didn't know a thing about it until I started looking into it. So searching for Riveakinen was really good. A moment in the sun was completely different because of how I discovered it. I gave you the basis on Japan. About 2012 or 2013, I read an article on the BBC about a social problem and a concept called Hikiko Mori. it's basically extreme social isolation. It is a very serious social problem in Japan. 

Rich Bennett 34:44
Wow, 

Tory Gates 34:44
At the time that I read it, there was about a million people in Japan who, because they do not feel that they fit in an organized, ordered society, they withdraw to the point that they do not leave their homes. That's the most extreme case. It is becoming a much more serious problem now because some of these people are starting to get older. And 

Rich Bennett 35:07
yeah, 

Tory Gates 35:08
there's confidentiality laws in Japan that do not allow for intervention. It's one of those things where social workers keep tabs on people, but they cannot just go into a person's house and say, "We're taking you out. We can't do that." It's illegal. The person has to do that. Anyway, I read these different stories, actual stories. And I thought, oh my god, it was like, I had my own flashback. It's no secret. I have suffered from depression as well as anxiety my entire life and they don't play together very well. 

Rich Bennett 35:42
And 

Tory Gates 35:43
I had a brief period in my life in a very immature thing where I didn't leave my house for a long time because I just didn't handle a situation that well. And eventually I got out. But this was something else. And I thought, "Okay, I've got something." So the story, a moment in the sun is about about a girl that 

pretty much, her name is Ray. Ray was a person who self-isolated by choice as a child for her reasons. And the story begins with her running away and, you know, doing a midnight run to get away. And then we pick her up a little bit later as she found a place to stay. And she found a mentor. And she got back to school. And she had this mentor who was a very talented artist and who helped Ray with her own work. And now she teaches other people. But Ray's story is about basically facing your past before you can face your future. Ray's flashbacks to her family or what's left of it. And what happened to her are things that continually pop back into her consciousness. And when she is introduced to a guy who used to be Hicco-Mori, he introduces her to a chat room called The Dwellers. And he said, "These are all Hicco-Mori. This is how we stay in touch." And a name pops up and Ray realizes that this guy is a high school classmate of hers who vanished. And everybody wondered what happened to him. 

Rich Bennett 37:23
Whoa. 

Tory Gates 37:24
And she realizes it's him. And so Ray is immediately like, "I'm going to him out." But then she realizes she's got so much work to do on herself before she can do 

Rich Bennett 37:34
Right. 

Tory Gates 37:34
anything. And it's not always pretty. But it was a story that allowed Ray to touch on her past and her problems and it allowed her to look at other people's issues and it also allowed raise circle of friends to realize that hey we all live very protected lives we all live in different classes there are people who suffer a lot more than will ever know and it got me signed and I I still point to that one as probably one of the really it's a favorite of mine even though it's really I think for some people it is painful to read if you've had a similar situation like that it might but at the same time the there is no end to the story but it's a hopeful future and that's something I always like to put in is you know none of my stories end it's like the door is still open for something more to happen and it's up to you to figure out what it might be

Rich Bennett 38:39
you're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett we'll be right back

if you love books you need to experience the book fair Belair this incredible community event brings together authors readers and book lovers of all ages for a celebration of stories creativity and connection what makes it special is the chance to meet authors in person hear their stories and purchase books directly from them I've attended myself and I can tell you there's nothing quite like discovering a great book and talking with the person who wrote it it makes the experience more personal and far more meaningful whether you're looking for your next favorite read something for your kids or even a unique gift you'll find it at the book fair Belair it's family friendly welcoming and full of the kind of energy that reminds you why books matter learn more and see upcoming event details at bookfair@belair. org again that's book fair@belair. org it sounds like to me that from what I'm gathering so far and I don't know if it's true or not a lot your books will also educate people 

Tory Gates 40:03
I hope so 

Rich Bennett 40:04
for help them out somehow or another 

Tory Gates 40:06
I hope so 

Rich Bennett 40:07
and is music involved in all your 

Tory Gates 40:09
I'm 

Rich Bennett 40:10
books 

Tory Gates 40:10
pretty much all of them yes um okay growing up uh I grew up in go I mean I was I was I was i'm 60 so I was born in 65 and I had two older 

Rich Bennett 40:23
balk 

Tory Gates 40:23
brothers who interested me in schooled me in really good music you know in the 

Rich Bennett 40:30
yeah 

Tory Gates 40:30
Beatles the Rolling Stones Bob Dylan CCR that kind of thing and I had all of that percolating in my head as a small child and when you know the words to 19th nervous breakdown when you're three that should tell you that something is probably gonna be happening to you um that all kind of stayed with me and 

Rich Bennett 40:57
yeah 

Tory Gates 40:57
you know I I became interested as I grew older uh you know I became interested in Elvis Presley I became interested in Kiss because that was the big band in the 70s um and I was introduced to the blues by Johnny Winter and oh 

Rich Bennett 41:14
my god still alive and well wow 

Tory Gates 41:18
well it was it was the it was the it was the double and live collection my brother David had left it behind and I was 12 didn't know what this eight track was put it on and it just blew my mind I was like because I didn't realize that Johnny and Rick Daringer were both in the same band and Terran it up all through that and as I told I told some someone on another podcast recently uh Johnny's version of It's My Own Fall which is from that record was just like the one thing that really hit me and I thought oh this is really different and eventually I caught up to that all a few years later and music was primarily whatever my format was at the time my DJ country music, I DJ pop music, I DJ music of your life you know old big band type stuff so I mean I knew some of that and I think for me it was um it always worked but the you know the first person who ever used and I did this for a while and I still do it uh the first person who ever used lyrics in a book that I read Stephen King used lyrics from Bad Moon Rising in Shining and obviously he got permission from John Fogarty to do that. 

Rich Bennett 42:37
Right uh yeah. 

Tory Gates 42:38
And I'm assuming that John probably wouldn't have just let anybody do that. But in any case, now and again, I mean, I used lyrics and a lot of my stories. And I get permission for it. Sometimes I pay a fee. Sometimes someone just very kindly lets me use their lyrics. Le of the black swan case in point. That song, the book is based on a song, 

Rich Bennett 43:06
a 

Tory Gates 43:06
lady from Arkansas named SJ Tucker, who I played a festival with many years ago. She wrote a song called "Black Swan Blues" with another fellow. And that song is so cool. And bluesy and just eerie in its own way. And I thought, I got an idea. And that song became the template for the character Aresa. And so very kindly let me use her lyrics. Another good friend, Susie Brown. Let me use lyrics from one of her songs for another character to sing. And I, it can be expensive when you're trying 

Rich Bennett 43:50
things. 

Tory Gates 43:50
to pay those But sometimes it's just so necessary. Usually I write my own lyrics, I take my old, 

Rich Bennett 43:56
right, 

Tory Gates 43:56
and do them. But sometimes a song just will not let you go. And if it's something somebody might recognize it might be useful. And so, yeah, it's done that to me before. And I try to work around it nowadays. I try to write around it so that I don't steal from anyone or I use my own words. And I'm getting better at that. But yeah, music is important. And the sweet dream series case in point, I think I wanted to turn generations of young adult readers onto the roots of rock and roll. Have them find out who Roy Buchanan is, have them find out who Robert Johnson is, have them find out who these people are. And then when they go and people have told me, yeah, I go looking for this music when he hear this. 

Rich Bennett 44:46
Yeah, 

Tory Gates 44:47
you turn them on to something new and even better, I hope. 

Rich Bennett 44:52
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I just had a gentleman on who is a professor of music. And we were talking about that. And I thought, you know, he was talking about how music is math. But the different chords and everything, how it changes your feelings. And he also, and I didn't notice, he surprised me. He also teaches, or did he just retired a few months ago, rock history. 

Tory Gates 45:22
Oh wow. 

Rich Bennett 45:22
I was like, really? So yeah, because how jazz played into it. And you know, just all these different things. And you know, with you playing, playing music and writing. And just see here, listening to you about the different.It's  like, OK, he's got to be time, music into a lot of these book. 

Tory Gates 45:42
I think just about every one of them has something to do with 

Rich Bennett 45:46
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 45:46
it. Sometimes in some of my more recent writing that hasn't come out yet. And it's more of a background or it's something that will help set a mood. And maybe they hear a song or they hear some words or something that suddenly prick up their ears a little bit. And it becomes useful. But as I say, sometimes a piece of music will work for me. And suddenly it just rolls in. And it just becomes part of it. For me, the blues was a thing that that of all the music I ever listened to. That's my favorite genre such as it is. But I listen to a lot of different things. There's very little I will not listen to. And 

Rich Bennett 46:29
say 

Tory Gates 46:30
what it does is it. It gives you these. It stimulates you in different ways. Different types of 

Rich Bennett 46:39
Yeah, 

Tory Gates 46:39
music stimulate you. And at heart they will inspire you to something. People make 

Rich Bennett 46:46
no, 

Tory Gates 46:46
you want to listen to it more. It'll make you want to find more of this music. Find out more. And for me, it's just it colors my writing. It informs it and it just helps. And I mean, I will just when I'm writing. I usually am just if I'm not in a public place. If I'm home writing, I just blast music, whatever's on, whatever I'm 

Rich Bennett 47:09
yeah. 

Tory Gates 47:09
playing. Sometimes it works. I think Stephen King writes to ACDC or something like that. I'm like, Hey, if it works, that's cool. 

Rich Bennett 47:18
Whatever's 

Tory Gates 47:19
on sometimes sometimes I'll play certain things. Sometimes I'll play Kurtan. I'll play Christian Adace, or Jaya Taylor or something like that to set a mood or I'll play music of a certain type that fits the mood and fits what I want to do. 

Rich Bennett 47:36
Interesting. 

Tory Gates 47:36
Yeah, and it does, like, and sometimes I'll just try something different. I'll try something weird. Like, I have a manuscript that is a long way away from doing anything. It's another one that's set in Japan, but I've mostly been writing from the States these days. I'm getting better at writing about where I know a little bit more of... I just started fooling around because I'm like, I have a scene and I have somebody driving through the night along the big highway in Japan and I'm like, what are you going to listen to? So I'm like... Oh, here is a Japanese radio station that actually streams. Let's see what this sounds like. And I found this really cool jazz station and I thought, yeah, she'd be listening to that. That's cool. And it sets the mood. And I listen to it as I wrote and I'm like, I like this. I like this. Now I need to go buy this out. 

Rich Bennett 48:26
What is this? Okay, wait a minute. Tori, I got to ask you. Where did you find... What platform did you find a Japanese radio station you were able to stream? 

Tory Gates 48:35
I googled it. I 

Rich Bennett 48:38
Really? 

Tory Gates 48:38
just started searching different areas of Japan. What kind of stations are there? I know almost nothing about their set up and 

Rich Bennett 48:48
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 48:48
most of them don't, I think, do two legal issues, but I found one or two that kind of sort of did a little bit and I found one that was playing jazz in the middle of the night and it was so cool. And I was like, okay, I know who that is. I don't know who this is. This is kind of neat. And it was a good... I don't even know who did It was a really good show and it just kind of stayed. And I like listening to things like that. I really think the world... I mean, you used to listen to short-wave radio for things like that. And now I would, you know, I hope that more streaming like that is available that one of these days, you know, people can listen to music from all over the world and... Find something new, find that they like. And it brings everyone together. 

Rich Bennett 49:37
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 49:38
I've had so many people say, "Music breaks down boundaries." And they're right about that. 

Rich Bennett 49:42
It does. That's why the Beatles were so good at 

Tory Gates 49:45
they 

Rich Bennett 49:46
what because they would go out and to different countries explore all the different types of music and all the different instruments. And it's just amazing. That's one of the things I love to do. It's just listen to different types of music from different places. One of the things I got into for a while was Viking metal. 

Tory Gates 50:08
Oh wow okay. 

Rich Bennett 50:09
It is pretty damn wild. I'm like... And then I just saw... talking about Japanese. I just saw a video not too long ago. It was like a Japanese heavy metal band. But they were using, like, your regular Gibson Les Paul stuff like that, but also some Japanese instruments. 

Tory Gates 50:29
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 50:30
Your traditional Japanese instruments. And it's mine. 

Tory Gates 50:33
Some of it is fantastic. 

Rich Bennett 50:36
Ah, 

Tory Gates 50:36
Band made is one of those bands that is really fantastic. They are really fantastic musicians. Oh, I know. And taking traditional instruments and moving them in different directions. The Yoshida brothers, our Shana's and players. I've been listening to them for years. They play traditional music, but then they just blow it up with different styles. And there's so many folks like that. And social media these days. You pop on Instagram. And here's a new band from Who Know Swear that's playing this really 

Rich Bennett 51:09
yeah. 

Tory Gates 51:10
cool music. And it's great to see that. It opens the doors. 

Rich Bennett 51:13
It is. It is. So with your books, when readers actually reach out to you and I'm sure you've had plenty, what kind of message actually sticks with you the most from them? 

Tory Gates 51:28
I think that people primarily tell me that they just like the story as a whole. They were like, this is a good story. This was a fast read. So I've got my continuity down. I've got a good flow going. Occasionally people will give me critiques on maybe where I'm where am I writing from. And that sort of thing. But a lot of it also is certain people will tell me that they really identified with the main character they really liked a side character. They thought was really cool. And I think that they recognized themselves in that character. And that's the thing I look for when I watch a movie or when I read a book sometimes I look for the character that resembles me or resembles my. 

Rich Bennett 52:21
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 52:22
And I just kind of get into their character as the story progresses to see what happens. And 

Someone said at one time, it was like, peo to like my music and make friends with the songs and

Rich Bennett 52:40
I would like ooh. 

Tory Gates 52:40
I think it was

it was

it was Peter Garrett from Midnight Oil. I interviewed him years ago and he said something about I would like people to get inside our songs and make friends with them. Tha was it and I thought, 'Wow, that's really interesting and I thought that's what I want. I want readers to get inside the story and make friends with my characters and hope that if they were real people you like them, would you want them as friends?' And I think that

it means that I'm touching someone. Of course we always want a wider audience, we want more. We 

Rich Bennett 53:14
more

Tory Gates 53:14
want 

Rich Bennett 53:14
yeah, 

Tory Gates 53:15
the buy, we want more people to check out the books and maybe get our books made into movies or something like that. Those things come in time and I

I think I've learned the fine art of patience, so I just keep writing, keep trying to find different ways to engage and do my best with it and hope that in my lifetime something happens that makes me think, 'Okay, I did alright.' 

Rich Bennett 53:39
Right? So if someone has never picked up one of your books, where should they start and why? 

Tory Gates 53:48
Well, I think it's really a matter of what catches you. If you went to sunberrypress.com and looked at all my books or you went to Amazon or wherever, 

Rich Bennett 54:03
I 

Tory Gates 54:03
think the cover and the title will catch

each title in each cover will catch you. It's whether it's fair or not, people judge by the cover. And sometimes I've had people, it book fairs come along and you just see them and they come right over and they're like, 'Can I look at this?' And I'm like, 'Sure, pick it up.' And they'll look at the cover and they'll look at the back and they'll be like, 'Tell me about this, I want to know about this.' And that's cool. In terms of anything, I think

if you started researching for Roy Buchanan and you like, were really interested in young adult, in time travel, in Japan, in music, that's the beginning of a really fun, role-looking series that will take you through a lot of things, but why not? That's a good one. I've managed to scrunch down my elevator pitch to each book now. If you're looking for something that's maybe a little edgy a moment in the sun is a good one for that. For me, though, it's like, I like to tell people

and this works too

I have one story that I consider fun, even though it has a lot of rough to it. Live from the cafe was a story that I wrote and I never thought would get published. I just came up with the idea of from spending so much time in coffee shops everywhere I have ever been and I mean holes in the wall to Starbucks to whatever. I 

Rich Bennett 55:36
Right. 

Tory Gates 55:36
thought if I ran a coffee shop, what would mine be like? And I said about creating the most uncorporate, strange coffee shop that I could possibly come up with. And I went back to Northern Vermont where I grew up and in my hometown of Cambridge we had a little coffee place, little coffee diner place, and all the tourists going to ski country or going to leaf peep or do whatever would show up there. And if you hung around there once you got old enough to go in, you meet some really interesting people. And I remembered that. So what I decided to do was I decided to push it up into Canada, I created a tiny little town in Quebec called Harland'sville. And the entire life of the town is a Blink you miss it, one-stop-like community, kind of like Cambridge at the time. And a former pub has been turned into a coffee shop and it's become the life, it's like the heartbeat of the town where it's strange. The music is a soundtrack of Canadian history. The coffee is made through a huge, we machine one pot at a time. Everything is mismatched and odd. And the people are equally mismatched and odd. The people who own it, the people who work there and the people who hang out. And then I decided to make it even more fun. I said, "This becomes the place where mysterious and sometimes famous people just show up to hang out and occasionally play music. You get to figure out who they are." And all of them are real people. And it's like some of them are friends of mine, some of them are really famous people. Some of them are so oblique that you have to know who they are, to figure out who they are and what on earth are they doing here. And it just became a fun story to write and then, uh, I submitted it to Sunbury Press. This is after a moment in the Sun and Lawrence, Norcold it great writing, he loved it. And I'm like, well, alright. So that's a fun story. It's a fun story about growing up in a small town. And, um, an old and close friend of mine. 

What it is like to deal with change, what it is like to deal with your identity. And, I'm glad I got it right. And I think anybody that reads that will have a lot of fun. At the very least you'll get a good chuck a lot of it. And maybe it sets you up for the serious stuff that I write. 

Rich Bennett 58:29
I'm definitely going to have to grab that one first then. 

Tory Gates 58:32
Well, I hope you do and I hope you 

Rich Bennett 58:33
it. 

Tory Gates 58:33
enjoy 

Rich Bennett 58:34
Oh, I will, I will. Alright, so something very important. Tell everybody how they can where they can find your books, your website and how they can follow you. 

Tory Gates 58:44
Okay. My website is Tori gates media dot com. That has links to everything that I do radio wise writing wise and so forth. But the best places to go are sunbury press dot com. You can go to Amazon Barnes and Noble dot com. If you can purchase through bookshop dot org. That is something that I always encourage because they will help local bookstores and kick back a little money toward them. But really you can go in any bookstore and you should be able to order it if it's not there. We do sunbury does all of its distribution through ingram. And they've done a really good job of helping us out. So the books are available. Again, you know, through my website, that kind of thing. And we are out there. You may not see us right on the shelf or in the window, but we are there. 

Rich Bennett 59:36
They're out there. So those of you listening, you know what I'm going to say no matter where you purchase his books, not his book his books. Make sure you leave a full review whether be on Amazon, Goodreads Barnes and Knobes wall, whatever you can leave a review, leave a 

Tory Gates 59:53
yes, those are 

Rich Bennett 59:54
reef. 

Tory Gates 59:54
gold. 

Rich Bennett 59:54
And Yes, and purchase copies for other people as well. They make great gifts. So before I get to my last two questions, is there anything you would like to add? Usually it's just one question, but there's one question I definitely have to ask you and the last question is going to be 

Tory Gates 1:00:11
you. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:11
determined by 

Tory Gates 1:00:11
All right. Well, as we do this, we just did the cover reveal for Legend of the Black Swan, my friend Megan Arney did a fabulous cover. And we are going to have this book out on sunbury press and all these other places by the end of March or thereabouts. I will be at the book fair at Bellair this summer. I'll have copies of that and all my others. There's going to be some other events, those are all on my website, but I'm very excited for this one because legend really took on a very nice life of its own and it became much more than I thought it would ever be. And I think it shows growth in me as an author, if I may say so myself, but in any case, I'm just I try to make the every book every release, I try to make the next one better than any of the others in terms of how I write and trying to be original. And this has been an incredible fun thing to do for the last several years. As I say, it is the best use of my free time to just sit and write and 

Rich Bennett 1:01:13
yeah, 

Tory Gates 1:01:14
create and have some fun while we're at it. And if somebody happens to buy it or somebody happens to read it and like it, that's really my payoff. So it's kind of cool. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:24
Yeah, all right, so you ready for this question? And be honest with me, what is Cal's favorite pizza? 

Tory Gates 1:01:37
Cal loves pizza from a regional chain called pizza bullies. And I think you 

Rich Bennett 1:01:45
Oh, 

Tory Gates 1:01:45
know them. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:45
really? 

Tory Gates 1:01:47
I've been ordering from them for a long time now and whatever they put in the pizza. First of all, they make great pizza, not too much oil. I love that. And she just loves that pizza. That one. She just loves the dough. She loves the crust and I'm vegetarian, so I get like I always get a black on with pizza. She loves it. I have to make sure she doesn't eat too much of it, but she loves it. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:16
All right, so those of you listen, if you have no idea what the hell we're talking about, Cal is Tory's beautiful mankind, which for those of you that don't know what a mancoon is, it's a cat. Probably I want to say they're the most beautiful kind out there. 

Tory Gates 1:02:31
Well, she is 

Rich Bennett 1:02:32
and they're very 

Tory Gates 1:02:34
Well, kao, kao is a very standoffish kiddie. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:38
friendly. 

Tory Gates 1:02:38
Uhm, 

Rich Bennett 1:02:39
Really? 

Tory Gates 1:02:39
most, most main coons that I've come across, they, they allow you one pass when they walk by and if you can get to pet them, that's all you're gonna get. Uhm, 

Rich Bennett 1:02:49
okay. kao 

Tory Gates 1:02:50
is a very unique one, she's a very small cat. So we don't know if she was the runt of the litter or, or, or she might be mixed breed, but she's got all the markings and all the attitude. I rescued her from the street here in Harrisburg several years ago. And, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:06
wow, 

Tory Gates 1:03:07
she was a very tiny, very sick cat, but she rallied very quickly. She only weighs about 14 pounds and I don't actually know how old she is, but she is at times a very sweet cat, but for the most part, she is very much the one who rules the roost and she's also my editor and she is also the one that you see on my website a lot as the one. What I do is what I do with kao is sometimes now she's female, but kao will slip into a character on the blog for whatever. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:40
Okay, 

Tory Gates 1:03:40
she sounds like the brain from the Animaniacs, 

that very snarky sarcastic, the same thing we do every night. That kind of thing, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:54
oh my god, I haven't heard a reference to them in a long time. 

Tory Gates 1:04:01
Well, thankfully 

Rich Bennett 1:04:02
Wow. 

Tory Gates 1:04:02
Maurice Lamar and Rob Pulson and them are still with us and 

Rich Bennett 1:04:07
yeah, 

Tory Gates 1:04:08
they still tour, they do, they do sing alongs of that stuff, they do different things and it's, it's very cool to see them. I didn't get to Rob Pulson was at an event that I was at several years ago, sadly I didn't get to meet him, but I did get to see him and he seems like just the most genuinely nice guy. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:28
Yeah, wow. So for this, you're going to pick the last question, pick a number between one and five. 

Tory Gates 1:04:37
All right, four. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:44
All right. Now pick a number between 61 and 80, 

Tory Gates 1:04:51
74, 

Rich Bennett 1:04:53
74. 

Oh, wow. Okay. If you had dinner with the whysies, yeah, run it lips here, if you had dinner with the wisest person, you know what would be the topic. 

Tory Gates 1:05:13
The wisest person, I know. 

Oh, man, 

that's a good question. Oh, 

Rich Bennett 1:05:25
I never heard that question. I got you. 

Tory Gates 1:05:26
I think, 

I think the wisest person that I know and some people are going to find this odd, but some people will not, if you ever met the guy. He passed away a couple of years ago, a gentleman named Bob Bittner, Bob was a guy that in hindsight, you know, readers, I just used to do a thing on the most unusual person I've ever met. Bob was this guy. Bob was the guy who probably saved my radio career in the early 90s, at a point when I was ready to quit. I was just in a very bad place in the early 90s, and I was in a bad attitude place. I was in a radio station and a job I couldn't stand. I hated it, and I was ready to quit. The former chief engineer of a station that I had worked for heard me one night on this station called me up to say hi, and I told him my situation, he said, well, there's this guy that just bought a radio station in Boston. And Bob is a very interesting guy. You, I think, would like him. And I thought, okay. 

I proceeded to go to Cambridge, Massachusetts, which is, you know, Harvard, that kind of thing, 

Rich Bennett 1:06:47
Yeah, 

Tory Gates 1:06:47
but he bought a little AM radio station, but 250 watts, but it was a clear channel and blasted out like you wouldn't believe. He'd been a radio guy for years, had this incredible voice. He was this very big imposing guy, this incredibly deep voice. But he was a genuinely nice man, very quirky. He had a lot of odd quirks to him, but he hired me despite me not really being at my best, and I worked for him for about eight years. And I managed different stations for him. He was an entrepreneur, he pioneered his own music format, which gained a cult following he bought dead radio stations, put them back on the air, and then sold them. He ended up moving to mid coast main, which I knew a lot about because I vacationed up there, I went to college in Maine, and I managed to station for him up there for a couple of years. And I became known as kind of his, his number two. Bob was one of those people that if you're a radio person, you just get him. because 

Rich Bennett 1:07:59
Yeah. 

Tory Gates 1:07:59
he can talk about that, he can talk about so many subjects, he was so knowledgeable, he was so deeply intelligent, and he would talk about the strangest things, but they would always be in a context of something that he thought about. And you always were left a little bit wrong out from talking with him, I think, and I've had dinner with him. I think if we had dinner again and we just talk for an hour, I think we talk about the business, I think we talk about different topics and I think it would just run the gamut and I think it would be one of those really interesting talks because he never failed to have something interesting to say, even if you didn't quite understand him or you didn't agree with him. And I have had people who met him, my late mother met him once, my sister met him once, and a former boss of mine met him to find him for a character reference. And every single one of them all said that's one of the most interesting and most unusual guys I've ever. And so that's, I think Bob's probably the most wise person I think I've ever met in my life, probably never meeting another guy like him. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:18
Wow. Man, it takes me back to my radio days as some of the guys that I worked with. And yes, some of them were very smart. 

Tory Gates 1:09:31
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:31
Some of them I even wonder like, why are you in radio? You could be doing something even 

Tory Gates 1:09:37
Yeah. I've 

Rich Bennett 1:09:38
better. 

Tory Gates 1:09:39
worked with some incredibly talented people. I've had very good teachers. I've had very good mentors. I've also had raving lunatics that I've had to work with. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:53
And 

Tory Gates 1:09:53
yeah, and it's one of those things where I 

would say I call these people, I call my colleagues my radio friends because most of them are my friends. But to be perfectly honest, outside radio, I don't think we have an awful lot in common, but we have enough in common that we understand each other and we all love what we do. You hope, and it's sad that some of these folks have left us like Bob and some other really cool people. But I think one of the reasons that I stayed in this business for so many years was because a lot of the time you work alone and I'm much better at that. But also the people around you understand you and they understand your way because it's not that much different. And we are all united in making a difference in a very small way. Even if it's just playing a request or just getting a new story on right or doing something a little bit right, if you've made someone's day or did something good for them, then you made a difference and that's why we do it. Also, as I like to say, it beats the hell out of working. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:06
Isn't that the truth? I used to have a lot of fun in some of the stations 

Tory Gates 1:11:10
at. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:10
I 

Tory Gates 1:11:10
I 

Rich Bennett 1:11:10
worked 

Tory Gates 1:11:11
had a little too much at some and I'm ashamed 

Rich Bennett 1:11:13
of 

Tory Gates 1:11:15
it. I got away with a couple of things I shouldn't have done. But thankfully 

Rich Bennett 1:11:18
five 

Tory Gates 1:11:19
years ago and we can forget about that. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:21
Yeah, I think their stations are no longer around. 

Tori, I want to thank you so much, man. It's been an honor and I can't wait to talk to you again. Actually, I know we'll be talking again very soon. 

Tory Gates 1:11:34
Thank you, Rich. This has been a blast and I monitor to be on. I really appreciate it and I look forward to talking to you, talking with you anytime really. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:45
Next time you'll have to bring Kaohan as well. 

Tory Gates 1:11:47
She won't sit still for too long, but we can try. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:52
Thanks a lot Tori. Take care

Tory Gates 1:11:53
as well. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:54
You know, one of the things I kept coming back to during this conversation with Tori is this idea that stories aren't just something we read. There's something we recognize because when you listen to him talk about his writing, it's not just creating characters or building worlds. It's about understanding people, the struggles they carry, the choices they make, and the reasons behind both. And I think that's why his work connects the way it does. It's not just fiction for the sake of entertainment. It's storytelling that makes you pause, think, and maybe even see a little bit of yourself in someone else's journey. We also talked a lot about growth, not just as a writer, but as a person. And I love that he's still pushing himself, still evolving, still trying to make each story better than the last. That says a lot. So if you're someone who loves books that go a little deeper, stories that feel real, characters that stick with you, I definitely encourage you to check out Tori's work. And maybe, more importantly, take a moment to reflect on your own story. Because like he said in his own way, every person has one. And every story matters. Thanks for listening. and as always, keep the conversations going.