Mary Catherine Liscinski on Breaking Digital Addiction Now

Wendy & Rich 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared a episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we've shared laughs, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios. Harford County Living presents Conversations with Rich Bennett. 

None of those things. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
Have you ever stopped to think about how much time you're really spending on your phone, your tablet, your laptop, or your computer, or even your TV? We live in a world where constant connection is the norm. But what's the cost of that connection? On today's episode, I'm joined by Mary Catherine Lassinski, a certified life coach who's on a mission to help us break free from the grip of digital addiction. You heard me right. Digital addiction. Laughing at me if you will. We talk about addiction a lot. Digital addiction is crazy. She doesn't just throw around buzzwords. Mary brings real solutions and powerful insights about how too much screen time is rewiring our brains, draining our energy, and affecting our relationships, our focus, and even our self-worth. Her upcoming book dives deep into how screens are supple but significantly changing us. And more importantly, how we can begin to reverse the damage. She's been a standout guest on multiple platforms, including the Dave Ellswick show, where she's been praised for taking big ideas and making them click with real people. So if you ever felt burned out, foggy, disconnected, or just overwhelmed by the pace of the digital world, we're talking about the kind of stuff that doesn't go away with a quick detox or turning off your notifications. This conversation is for you. So turn down the noise, put yourself on down, give yourself permission to unplug and lean in because Mary's message is one we all, and I mean we all need to hear right now. How you doing, Mary? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 2:43
I'm doing great, Rich. Thank you so much for having me on. 

Rich Bennett 2:47
Oh my pleasure. This is something we've talked about in the past, but really haven't dived into it. And which I'm glad that you're on so weekend dive into it. I want to, I want to, before we really get into it, I want to know a little bit about you. What actually led you to become a certified life coach and what specifically drew you to focus on digital addiction? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 3:14
Well, first of all, I am also a licensed mental health counselor. 

Rich Bennett 3:18
I 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 3:19
So that first I've been a licensed mental health counselor for 14 years, almost 14 years. And I have my own practice. And I wanted to start working more with families as a whole 

Rich Bennett 3:33
of 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 3:33
instead 

Rich Bennett 3:33
details. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 3:34
I've had individual teenage clients, individual adult clients and then I would bring in some aspects of family therapy into that treatment, but I wanted to start doing more family therapy. And so when I started down that path, I realized how much families were arguing about screen time in their homes. And so I thought if I can really address this one issue, I could really make a big impact on how families are functioning and their relationships. And so that's what led to get certified to treat digital addiction. And now I am a life coach, which allows me to coach parents or individual adults nationwide. 

Rich Bennett 4:15
Wow. Okay, I didn't realize about the therapist part. That's awesome. Well, and makes sense, I guess, because being a life coach, I guess it goes hand and hand, right? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 4:30
It can. And I think that parent coaching is really what's needed in this particular issue. And I can, you know, coach individual adults as well. 

Rich Bennett 4:40
Right. So with the digital addiction, explain to the listeners what exactly is digital addiction. How do we know if we or someone we love is actually struggling with it? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 4:53
Well, it actually is a real diagnosis. The ICD 11, which primary care doctors use, has gaming disorder listed as six c five 1.0. No, that's there. And the diagnostic manual that licensed mental health counselors use, such as myself, it is almost there. Okay. In our current version, it is listed in the back, but I believe in our next version, the sixth version edition will have a gaming disorder and or social media addiction disorder, formally listed as well. So we are. 

Rich Bennett 5:32
Wow. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 5:33
We, we are here already. So, and so here are some symptoms of digital addiction. These might apply more to younger people, but definitely to adults as well. So. 

Rich Bennett 5:43
Right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 5:44
With drawing from other people, you know, your teenager or kid, you know, just they just want to go to the room and be by themselves on their screen. Too much, right? Anger, especially when you try to tell that teenager to get off their device and do their homework, if they have an explosion, that represents too strong of an attachment to that device, right? 

Rich Bennett 6:04
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 6:04
Lower grades due to a lack of ability to focus, we can talk about how it negatively affects academic performance and learning abilities. poor communication skills and less eye contact. If young people are not getting the practice they need, the actual time they need to converse with adults and with peers, those skills will not develop. And here's one of the saddest ones to me, Rich. I see so frequently now teenagers and young adults just walking around with that zombie face, right? Lat, 

Rich Bennett 6:35
Yes, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 6:36
it's not necessarily sad and we have to realize that is not normal. That's not okay. That's not just, oh, this new generation is like that. That is not okay. 

Rich Bennett 6:46
No. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 6:47
And that definitely, you know, they have fewer interests. They're only interested in what is going to give them those dopamine hits the social. 

Rich Bennett 6:55
Right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 6:55
The video games and so the other things that they used to enjoy that does not give them the level of dopamine spike that is needed in order for them to feel it. How about this one? A feeling exhausted, but you can't sleep. Not only are we just staying up and getting less sleep, but then when we try to sleep, we can't. 

Rich Bennett 7:17
Right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 7:19
Lack of motivation. Here's a big one. I kind of hate to bring this up, but that whole idea of the 25 year old lane on the sofa and their parents basement, lack of motivation that come can come from Overuse or over experience of dopamine, which can lead to dopamine depletion, which then leads to a lack of motivation. So it's not just Steided that they only want to play video games, but they are brain chemistry and motivation level is so messed up. They don't have that get up and go to get out and do what they need to do. And of course, if someone seems stressed or depressed, with no other clear apparent cause, I point it to social media and video games right away. 

Rich Bennett 8:05
I I don't know what it is. And unfortunately, you don't see it of just the younger generation. You even see it with people my age and even your age. For some reason, when it comes to social media, too many people think they can be a social media influencer, which is going to help them make a boat load of money, which is a load of crap. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 8:33
Right. 

Rich Bennett 8:34
And I'm sure you have experience of this. You probably seen the numbers. How many of these so called influencers? 

Actually, What are you know, the anxiety or depression is off the charts or even worse. You see a lot of them just in their own life. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 8:55
Yes, it is sad. The CDC reported that for kids aged 10 to 14, the suicide rate tripled from the years 2007 to 2018. 

Rich Bennett 9:09
What? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 9:10
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 9:11
Wow. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 9:12
This is serious, serious stuff. And there's, you know, we just have to point to social media. Last year, Politico magazine published an article. It was a survey of 1400 mental health counselors like myself. And they asked them, what do they think is the main cause of this steep rise in anxiety and depression among young people? And the number one cause listed by far was social media. 

Rich Bennett 9:42
I'm not surprised. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 9:43
So here we have, you know, the professionals who are directly working with these teens and kids who are in trouble. And they're identifying here is where it's coming from. 

Rich Bennett 9:52
Yeah. Well, anything is especially social media. You know, when we were going to school. Yeah, there were bullies, but it was basically face to face. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 10:03
Right. 

Rich Bennett 10:04
with social media you have more bullies out there you have i want to see you have more cowards as well because you have a lot of keyboard warriors they will say stuff high on behind that keyboard but they won't say it in person and i had a guess to my say say it perfectly the other day if you can't say it to somebody's face then don't even put it online 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 10:27
right right 

Rich Bennett 10:28
and you can there and you can oh god you can talk to kids and even some adults tell you're blue in the face and they just they just don't get it they'll stay they'll still stay on it is there a way because i we know once they reach a certain age you know we can't really take the phones or anything away is there a solution for all of this besides all the social media platforms shutting down 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 10:59
right well it's kind of two things here number one you know i take one approach when it's a family with young children little bitties who don't have their own screens yet that's one scenario and then the other scenario is a family with teenagers who it's already arrived but you know the big thing is delay social media use for as long as possible the good thing 

Rich Bennett 11:21
right 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 11:21
now is there are a few different companies who are making phones specifically designed for teenagers that do not have the hardware capabilities of connecting to the internet 

Rich Bennett 11:34
oh 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 11:35
so they can have they can have a screen or whatever and it looks like an iPhone whatever but it can call and text and you can you know limit that to whatever degree you want to but it does not give them internet which is so dangerous for them to have 

Rich Bennett 11:50
oh okay 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 11:51
so there's a three or four different companies that make those 

Rich Bennett 11:56
now um a lot of people also think that screen time is mostly best social media what other forms of digital exposure flying under the radar but still causing harm that a lot of people don't even know about 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 12:12
right well video games now connect to the internet and you talk to 

Rich Bennett 12:16
mm-hmm 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 12:17
strangers worldwide some parents don't know that or even if they know that they just have no idea of the dangers of letting their children and teenagers talk to strangers here's how I kind of illustrate that it's easy to see how you know parents do not allow their children to go spend the night at a stranger's house you would never do that that's just an automatic no if I don't know these people you're not going to spend the night at their house but when you allow your child or teenager to have internet access in their bedroom that is a virtual sleepover 

Rich Bennett 12:50
mm-hmm 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 12:50
we have no idea who they're talking to what kind of situation they're in or what kind of pressures they're feeling and so many families you know first of all have had their teenager totally flip away from whatever values that their parents were trying to impart into them and you know trying to create that family culture do a 180 flip away from that because of strangers they talk to or they connect to strangers and they think it's another 16 year old but it's actually a 35 year old 

Rich Bennett 13:19
yep 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 13:20
and then they get kidnapped and they're gone and it's just horrific 

Rich Bennett 13:27
well and the thing is and now I'm going back some time remember AOL AOL chat 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 13:34
right 

Rich Bennett 13:34
rooms a lot of predators were in there yes disguising as teenagers and you saw it I think that's really when you started seeing a lot of that stuff on the rise because a lot of these people a lot of these teenagers even young adults were going to meet this so-called person for a date and look what happens right a lot of these people a lot of those teenagers and young adults would be here today but unfortunately they're not because of the terrible things that happened 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 14:09
right and now even on social media profiles you know an adult can put up pictures of a 

Rich Bennett 14:15
mm-hmm 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 14:15
beautiful young girl or a handsome 15 year old boy and pretend you know so it looks like there's a lot of evidence that they're a totally different person when there's not and also we can come back to this later but besides social media there's also AI and 

Rich Bennett 14:29
chat 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 14:29
AI and that those dangers as well but the dangers of just allowing your children to have access to strangers is too great 

Rich Bennett 14:40
mm-hmm I'm glad you mentioned the pictures because and I saw this when my daughter was back in actually maybe even been middle school but you have young people 

posting these photos of themselves online on social media and I don't understand and some of them luckily nothing has happened But what is it, and you- I even see where, just a given example, I'm not going to mention anything to you, but somebody I know, she's constantly posting pictures of herself like she's modeling or something. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 15:23
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 15:24
And her parents are praising it online. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 15:27
Oh no. 

Rich Bennett 15:29
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 15:29
Just have- 

Rich Bennett 15:30
It's like, oh, you're so beautiful when I was like... 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 15:33
No. 

Rich Bennett 15:34
What the heck- 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 15:35
No. 

Rich Bennett 15:36
So how do we educate the parents as well? Because some of the parents are even into it. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 15:42
Right. Right. That is... They have such misplaced priorities and misplaced values, really. 

Rich Bennett 15:49
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 15:49
About what is the value of a human being? It's their soul, it's their inner character. And yes, we do see each other's physical bodies and we could admire beauty, but what really matters is what's on the inside. And... 

Rich Bennett 16:03
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 16:03
That is not emphasized when a child is young, and if it's emphasized that what's on the outside matters, you're setting that child or teenager up for a lifetime of not having their own identity and their own security. And they're always going to be searching for it outside of themselves with another human. And that... 

Rich Bennett 16:25
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 16:25
Or fulfills. We can never get that. 

Rich Bennett 16:28
Alright. So with what you do, because you're dealing with this all the time, what's one of the biggest struggles that you have when you're sitting there talking with a client... Trying to get them off of digital addiction, whether it be gaming, social media, or even TV, because let's face it, there's 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 16:49
...ty? 

Rich Bennett 16:49
too much negative crap out there on TV. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 16:52
Right. TV, you know, too much screen time can be TV. Yes, that's true. 

Rich Bennett 16:57
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 16:57
And so with TV, the time spent could be spent doing other things that are so much more healthy for us, ...relationally and for development of young people, and, you know, the content of TV, so much of it is just worthless and negative. 

Rich Bennett 17:12
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 17:12
Violence, and all of those kinds of things that are bad just about TV as well. And we need to remember that, too. It's not just social media and video games. It's TV taking us away from real life, so to speak. 

Rich Bennett 17:22
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 17:23
...you know, just the phrase of living in 3D instead of living in a 2D world of staring at your screen, which is 2D. So, I think that people, you know, need to wake up to the addictive properties. It's not 

Rich Bennett 17:38
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 17:38
just, oh, this is hard, or, oh, I can just try and I can manage it myself. Social media companies and video game platforms have owned up to hiring psychologists to teach them addictive properties, and then they build those properties into their platforms. So, that 

Rich Bennett 17:58
Ah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 17:58
has been confessed, that it's 

Rich Bennett 18:01
okay. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 18:01
They're not just addictive by accident. They're addictive by design. 

Rich Bennett 18:07
Interesting. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 18:08
So, the, for instance, let's, take a little side note here and say, with substance addiction, you know, drugs, alcohol, you take a 

Rich Bennett 18:19
right, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 18:19
drug, you get a dopamine spike, and then in a little bit it comes back down, and you want another hit. So, that's probably the purpose of the drug to get that dopamine level back up again. 

Rich Bennett 18:27
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 18:28
Video games, you have that same spike, but then that high dopamine level plateaus, for as long as you're playing the game, and then when you get off the game, 5 hours later, then it goes back down again. So, you are just flooding your brain with dopamine, and that, of course, feels very good, and then you're not going to feel very good when you get off, which is what's leading to these meltdowns. And just the desire to stay on all the time. And then, again, when your brain is, you know, noticing that your dopamine level is super high, it is going to down regulate and not produce enough dopamine, you're going to have dopamine depletion, which then leads to the low motivation like I talked about before. 

Rich Bennett 19:14
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 19:15
So, these video games, it's been shown in Brain Scan Research that video gamers and social media users, their brain pathways and brain processes are affected in the same way as drug addicts. 

Rich Bennett 19:32
Wow. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 19:33
So parents, most of them don't know that and they need to know that to say this is an addictive thing that I'm allowing my child to interact with when a child's brain is not nearly as developed as it should be. I think that educating ourselves and children about brain science really helps them to understand what's going on here. So, you dopamine levels and your serotonin levels, all of those feel good hormones. There is a section of your brain called the limbic system. It is in the very center, middle part of your brain. It is the emotional center of your brain. So that is where you're going to have anger, anxiety, fear, things like that that come up. You're going to have your fighter flight, your excitement, 

Rich Bennett 20:21
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 20:22
all of those are occurring in your limbic system. There is another part of your brain called your prefrontal cortex, which is immediately behind your forehead. That area of your brain is responsible for higher level thinking, decision making, problem solving, conversation, self control, self regulation, all of those types of things. Now, the problem is, those two areas of the brain don't really operate at the same time, 

Rich Bennett 20:53
okay? Okay. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 20:54
You are playing a video game or if you are scrolling social media and you're in that having those dopamine hits and really engaged, your limbic system is firing. And then your prefrontal cortex is not being engaged or it's shut down or if you're very young, those connections between the limbic system and the prefrontal cortex, the neurons, the brain cells that can connect those two parts, are not going to be formed. 

Rich Bennett 21:23
Right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 21:24
And so you're looking at a brain that is underdeveloped, each part of the brain has specific purposes, but they also need to be integrated. An integrated brain is a healthy brain. The different parts are connected as well. And so the human brain is not fully developed until about age 26. 

Rich Bennett 21:45
What? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 21:47
That's true. It's true. And so the last part of the brain to develop is that part right behind your forehead, the prefrontal cortex, which again is the higher-level thinking, self control, things like that. And so that's 

Rich Bennett 21:59
right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 22:00
That's one reason why teenagers are so impulsive. The part of their brain that's in charge of self control isn't fully developed yet. So that to me means that our environment, what we expose our brains to or not, literally helps to shape how the brain physically grows or not. 

Rich Bennett 22:21
So are there any studies out there to show, excuse me, to show let's say in a year's time how much effect just being addicted to digital has on the brain development, like if one year, for example, Dorent COVID, these kids that were in school, they said, you know, Dorent COVID, they lost three years of social activity. And one year or whatever. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 22:52
All 

Rich Bennett 22:52
So 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 22:52
right. 

Rich Bennett 22:53
with digital addiction, are there any studies that show how much brain is not fully, in other words, like God, I'm trying to have a hard time explaining this. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 23:04
your 

Rich Bennett 23:04
So if I'm if I'm one if I'm gaming for a year, at the age of 13, how much time did I lose in my brain being fully developed? I guess that's easier way to say it. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 23:16
I'm not aware of any studies that are that specific, as far as like, you know, one year's worth of time, how much does that lose you developmental, 

Rich Bennett 23:24
right? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 23:25
But I will tell you what I do know and that is, and I cannot remember right now, who put this out it may have been the American Academy of Pediatrics, but I actually don't think so. Anyway, what was shown they did brain scans of children who spent more than the quote unquote recommended amount of time on screens. And what that showed was a decreased or lower amount of white matter in the brain. So it is it is affecting them now how many years that equated to I'm not sure, but it showed less white matter in the brain which is, I believe that is a protective portion or something to, I'm sorry, I'm not remembering that specifically. But anyway, it's an important part of brain development to have white matter in the brain. And so they, you know, said that if your child is spending more than a recommended amount of time, then the white matter is not developing as it should. Now, as long as we are talking about the recommended amount of time, I'll say this. The American of Academy of Pediatrics has put out a chart of recommendations as far as ages and amount of time. They think is okay. Quote 

Rich Bennett 24:50
on Quote. Okay. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 24:51
Reantime. However, I and other professionals who are working on this specifically think that those recommendations are too lenient. The evidence we are seeing and what we are looking at how damaging screen time is, we think that those amounts are too lenient. So I personally don't really focus on saying anything about X amount of time is okay or not. That's not 

Rich Bennett 25:17
Right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 25:17
really my thing. My thing is, you know, social media is just so damaging altogether. We just need to delay it as long as possible, and we need to be spending time doing other things that are healthy for our brain. One thing that I have done that I think is unique is looking at how do we reverse the damage that has been caused by too much screen time. 

Rich Bennett 25:44
Right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 25:45
If I can go into that a little bit. 

Rich Bennett 25:47
Absolutely. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 25:48
When I first got certified to treat digital addiction, I was very disappointed in that certification in that it's spent most of its time talking about the problems and the damage to the brain, which that's all good to know. Yes. But then it 

Rich Bennett 26:04
was right 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 26:05
treatment was an afterthought 

Rich Bennett 26:08
huh. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 26:09
Yes. I was shocked. I was like what what now right. And so I began to self educate. I began to read a lot of books about the subject and they were mostly the same way they talked all about the problems and then they were like so by the way stop being on a screen so much. And I was like well that's not very helpful. So I was like okay. I do know now a lot more specifically about the damage that's being done to our brains to our relationships to our mental health. What is it the reverse is these damages and so I you know research and research and read more and have come up with the keys to having a healthy brain which can help to grow a healthy brain and reverse some of this damage that has been caused. 

Rich Bennett 26:53
Oh, that's important, especially the reverse part. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 26:56
Right. Right. And so that's that's what I have put in my book my book about half of it is about the problems because we do need to know about the addictive properties and the damages of being done. So about half of it is about that and about half of it is about how do we reverse this? How do we build a healthy brain? 

Rich Bennett 27:13
Yeah, how do do it? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 27:17
we 

Rich Bennett 27:18
Yeah, seriously be I mean, I'll admit I'm I'm bad now with my job. Of course I'm on the computer all day and you know, but when I'm on social media most of the time I'm on under my business TV I don't watch as much anymore. But one of the things I've started doing is and I haven't done this in so long so if I go upstairs and I don't want to turn to TV on I started doing a puzzle 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 27:48
nice. 

Rich Bennett 27:49
A jigsaw puzzle 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 27:50
nice. 

Rich Bennett 27:51
Yeah, I might quit that because my wife finished her's way before mine, but but now see it all honestly it just it felt. It felt so much better you know and even my daughter bought me an adult coloring book years ago, which I didn't always a thing and that's something else I'm going to get back to doing but doing all these little things where it does not involve a screen in front of me. It just makes me feel so much better and I'm able to sleep better at night. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 28:25
Yes, yes, for sure, so some of these keys that I have found would be spending time in nature we can talk 

Rich Bennett 28:33
about. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 28:34
Yes, how spending time outside is so good for us. 

Rich Bennett 28:36
Yes, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 28:37
the face to face interactions with peers with friends with family and the attachment between children teenagers and parents that attachment is critical for healthy human development. 

Rich Bennett 28:49
Wait a minute you said face 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 28:52
to face, right? Yes, 

Rich Bennett 28:53
now when you say face to face that means in person not on your cell phone doing face time or whatever, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 28:59
Right, 

Rich Bennett 28:59
right? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 29:00
not not a video chat. 

Rich Bennett 29:02
Alright, I just just wanted to clarify that because you know you have some kids and even the dolls will be like but I just video called them the other day we were face to 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 29:12
face. Uh, no, 

Rich Bennett 29:15
no, okay, all right, go ahead 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 29:16
to be corrected on that 

Rich Bennett 29:18
yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 29:20
Yes, yes, also sleep, okay, if we're not sleeping well, we're all going to be grumpy the next day, right? 

Rich Bennett 29:26
Yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 29:26
So the importance of that, the importance of physical movement. Every age needs that, but especially for developing young ones, we need to be moving all the time, right? Being in the present moment, being mindful, being able to slow down. That is something we are way too much in a hurry, way too much about society is get ahead, and we need to slow down, right? 

Rich Bennett 29:51
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 29:51
And then for many people, the aspect of faith, if we look at AA, alcoholics anonymous, if we are knowing that this is an addiction, AA puts a lot of importance on faith, but also about connections with peers, having a support group and having a mentor, which in this case, as a coach, I can be a mentor or a sponsor, so to speak, but the importance of faith as well. 

Rich Bennett 30:19
Actually, I'm glad you brought that up, especially with AA and even some, some of the lives here substance abuse addiction, there are support groups out 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 30:31
there. 

Rich Bennett 30:31
Are there any support groups that you know about there for digital addiction? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 30:37
Not that I am aware of at all, as a matter of fact, I am one of very few people in the country who is certified to treat digital addiction. 

Rich Bennett 30:46
Really? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 30:47
Yes. Yes. So we are just getting off the ground. It's funny, because I feel like we are too late and too early at the same time. 

Rich Bennett 30:56
Uh huh. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 30:56
We're too late because the younger millennials and Gen Z have already experienced so much of this damage to their development and to their relationships and their mental health. At the same time, there's hope because we can reverse some of this, we can learn a lot of the things that we didn't learn. 

Rich Bennett 31:14
Right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 31:15
The emotional intelligence skills, the executive functioning skills we can talk about, you know, poor Gen Z with the employment issues of, you know, I talk to employers and they say how hard it is to employ Gen Z because they're having to teach them things that they didn't have to teach the older millennials. 

Rich Bennett 31:33
Yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 31:35
And so it is, it's, you know, can just be a big mess. 

Rich Bennett 31:39
Oh, I've talked to business owners about some of these people coming in for interviews. And some of them will just sit there and they'll be on their, self him while during the interview. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 31:54
Huh. 

Rich Bennett 31:55
Another one, people have come in in their pajamas and I'll never forget the one guy I had on. He said, the one guy that came in for an interview brought his mother with him. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 32:06
No 

Rich Bennett 32:07
Yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 32:09
way. 

Rich Bennett 32:09
And I think, I think what it is, and you may be able to add a little bit to this too. I think a lot of it has to do with the parenting because, you know, when you and I, when we were growing up, we had, you know, the toys and everything that we can play with, we had things to help. Our minds to help grow our brain. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 32:34
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 32:35
Nowadays you have parents and even that you'll even see daycares or whatever, they do the same thing. They have the TV on for the kids to watch 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 32:45
Right. 

Rich Bennett 32:46
or worse yet, even toddlers have their own freaking tablets. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 32:51
I 

Rich Bennett 32:52
That 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 32:52
know. 

Rich Bennett 32:52
play on. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 32:53
It is so, so bad. Yes. Unfortunately, it's true that tablets and phones can be easy babysitters. 

Rich Bennett 33:01
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 33:02
And we just fell into that trap as fast as we could, right? 

Rich Bennett 33:05
You know what? I don't think they're babysitters. I think they're baby cripplers. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 33:09
Uh, there you go. I'm going to use that term now. True. Because people need to be educated about child development. And 

Rich Bennett 33:19
yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 33:19
Like you said, you know, parents need to be parents. Children have to be raised. I can tell the difference in my practice between a teenager who has been raised versus a teenager who just grew up. 

Rich Bennett 33:32
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 33:33
And that difference there is the parent involvement and is parenting hard. Yes. But is it worth it? Absolutely to have, you know, a wonderful human being and or multiple children. And if you have multiple that they can go out and be successful and have a positive impact on the world and what people don't realize is how do those qualities develop? It comes from a close attachment to parents. It comes from healthy brain development. Those executive functioning skills and emotional intelligence skills don't just happen by themselves. It's part of the brain. It's part of how you grow up. What I say is like you said, rich, the way we grew up that we would consider normal is actually critical for child development. And when they're missing these, then we end up with some of these, you know, Gen Z who are suffering so much. 

Rich Bennett 34:23
Yeah. Yeah. Although it's It's sad. I don't know. When this all started, how it started, but we, and I, I do believe we need to go old school 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 34:39
again. Yes, yes. 

Rich Bennett 34:57
Somehow, I mean, their brains are fully developed until, well, normally 26, but, God, you have some kids, I mean, young adults, it could be into 30s and I fully develop because they're constantly gaming on social media. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 35:13
Right. 

Rich Bennett 35:13
It's ridiculous. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 35:14
You mentioned something about how this all started. I'll tell you a little bit about that now. 

Rich Bennett 35:19
OK. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 35:19
So TV, you know, has been around for a quite a while, but I would think, you know, I know that back in the day, parents, you know, after their child had been on the TV for a while, they'd shoe them outside and then make them go outside and play with the neighbor children. They, you know, 

Rich Bennett 35:34
of, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 35:34
kind 

Rich Bennett 35:34
yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 35:34
You think you'd know that, hey, you can't just watch TV, even if it was harmless cartoons or whatever or a nice wholesome family show they're like, shoe, get out of here, go outside and play. Right. 

Rich Bennett 35:45
I was slow to go play in traffic. I mean, come on. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 35:50
And then you had the advent of video games, but again, the early video games, you played by yourself or you had a friend literally sitting next to you playing with you. And so you still had the draw to take you away from the video games because you played them by yourself. But now with video games being quote unquote interactive and you can play with friends who are across town or play with a stranger who's around the world. So we we have seen the negative effects of video games a little bit more long term, especially in men who are 

Rich Bennett 36:23
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 36:23
addicted to video games, but talking about timeline. So the iPhone came out in 2007 also Facebook came out in 2007. And then in 2010 the front facing camera for taking selfies came out. So when you look at the time period between 2010 and 2015, that's where the statistics show us that there was a very steep rise in depression and anxiety among children and teenagers. And that steep rise didn't happen in millennials, in Jim X and in the baby boomers that same rise didn't happen. So we were 

Rich Bennett 37:04
it. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 37:04
looking at 

Rich Bennett 37:04
Right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 37:05
What was specifically affecting those young children? What's different about them than it was about us? And yes, we were, you know, as adults starting to use Facebook and iPhones, but we aren't as susceptible. As they are in a certain sense and we just kind of let them have it, whereas we work for a living during the day. And so it was a little bit different being 40 years old and getting your first iPhone versus being 14 years old and getting your first. 

Rich Bennett 37:32
Yeah. 

Wow, 2007. I didn't realize that, which I guess. Well, yeah. Now that I think about it, because my daughter would have been an elementary school. And oh, my God, I can't. The arguments we used to have, but my friends, my friends got that, you know, and unfortunately, well, you know, our kids are. If so and so doesn't have a cell phone or social media, you don't want to hang out with them because they're not cool like you are. Oh, okay. This. I got to jump off my suit box because I can get Subaru all up about this about this stuff. Alright. With parent, and we I want to get back to the parents here a minute, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 38:28
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 38:29
because you will, you'll have a lot of parents to say, well, I don't want to send my kids outside because you never know what could happen, you know, grant it. Yeah, that could even when we were growing up. That could happen. But what's the biggest challenge when you have parents to see that it's not safe for my kids to go outside. Some parents don't even find it safe to put their kids in recreational sports or, or to put them in the Scouts or anything like that. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 38:58
Right. Well, I understand those hesitations. I really do. 

Rich Bennett 39:04
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 39:04
I would say, you know, that's where parents, you need to do things with them. You need to go outside with them. You need to get two families together and say we're going to play family soccer or whatever and say we're going to go on a hike together as a family. And again, that is changing your family culture. But like you said, we need to go old school. It's not, 

Rich Bennett 39:24
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 39:24
you know, it's not just a good idea. It's like critical for us. Right. 

Rich Bennett 39:30
Mm hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 39:31
yes it is going to take more time and effort but that's what the kids need because there are there are dangers out there we don't want children you know in certain situations by themselves it's not safe anymore which is very sad but true so yes they need that outside they need time they need to play with friends but they need a watchful adult nearby too 

Rich Bennett 39:53
right 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 39:53
so that that that's difficult but again that's where 

Rich Bennett 39:58
we are it's 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 40:01
it's 

Rich Bennett 40:03
sad it's sad and and again you know what i have to blame social media and tv for that because people see the stuff and they believe 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 40:12
it 

Rich Bennett 40:13
right 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 40:13
right 

Rich Bennett 40:13
away 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 40:13
right 

Rich Bennett 40:14
i mean how many people actually rely on social media for their news right which 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 40:21
right 

Rich Bennett 40:21
is scary 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 40:22
it is it is because everything's on there and it's either created by a person saying something that's not true or it's created by AI 

Rich Bennett 40:30
yeah when did they become journalists 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 40:32
all right

Rich Bennett 40:34
you're

listening to conversations with rich Bennett we'll be right back

i've got to tell you about something that's seriously impressive my boyfriend chris recently tried m sculpt neo at living well health care in uken and the results absolutely incredible i'm talking visible muscle tone and fat reduction all without stepping foot into a gym m sculpt neo is a non-invasive body contouring treatment that builds muscle and burns fat at the same time it uses advanced technology to give you the equivalent of 20,000 crunches or squats in one session you heard me right 20,000 living well health care in oakton isn't just another wellness center it's run by dr. william clifft who's been helping people feel and move better for decades if you're tired of working out without seeing results or just want to kick start to your fitness goals this is the move check them out at living well healthcare elkton.com again that's living well healthcare elkton.com tell them rich and chris sent you with i want to get into work for a minute so people that rely on screens for work what are some realistic changes that they can make with a quickener jobs or even going off the grid. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 42:12
First of all i would say in your personal life as like as soon as you leave work as soon as you get home try to have the least amount of screen time possible and that is going to give your brain a rest 

Rich Bennett 42:24
right 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 42:25
for people who have to be on at night time you need to get some blue light blocking glasses 

Rich Bennett 42:32
yes 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 42:33
they really make a big difference they really do they help you okay there you go 

Rich Bennett 42:38
yep i got mine 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 42:40
they make a big difference in your ability to go to sleep at night and so i think that you know potentially you know some depending on what their job is they might be able to get their employer to agree that hey i'm not going to be checking my email at 10 p. m if that 

Rich Bennett 42:56
shouldn't 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 42:57
have right right that that's a modern phenomena that could be potentially stopped you know so 

Rich Bennett 43:04
yeah 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 43:04
just having your having conversations about your employer to say do i have to be available 24/7 by phone or by email or can i have time that's just for me right this i have 

Rich Bennett 43:15
right 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 43:16
family i have a spouse i have weekends right right and so i think conversations you know can be had 

Rich Bennett 43:27
all right i'm sorry if an employer wants you to be available 24/7 that is ridiculous and unfortunately you do see a lot of employers that want that they will provide you with the phone or anything 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 43:45
no 

Rich Bennett 43:46
but they they would they wouldn't access they would have your cell phone number uh hmm say i'm stepping down again Mary Kathryn you're getting me rolled up here 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 44:01
i'm already riled up all the time i'm so passionate about this you know wanting help individuals and help families to say you know don't give up they're all 

Rich Bennett 44:12
yeah 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 44:12
you know great families out there who have said yes we need to limit screen time in our home we're trying this and they try and it just ends up in a big fight and they stop and they fail and then they just give up and i'm saying don't you know no let let me come aside alongside you and help you with with this and it's it's worth it to do this it's worth it to find another family who says we're going to do the same thing our teenager isn't going to be on social media so we're going to get our teenagers together face to face to interact and do activities all these kinds of things and I think if parents just don't just talk about the problem but talk about actually what can be done and how can we band together. 

Rich Bennett 44:53
Yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 44:54
That real change can happen but it starts with individuals and then it can spread to society as long as we have those conversations that it can be done there is hope. 

Rich Bennett 45:04
You talk about also put in you know faith in which would help you a lot but. How do you because to me I don't know what it is but lately you see a lot of people that but they don't have faith anymore. How do you help those people because and that's face a lot of them are addicted to all this digital stuff. And you even see the video games that push you're pushing off you know faith away and everything 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 45:39
Right right unfortunately video games and social media really have downgraded our society in the 

Rich Bennett 45:47
yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 45:48
moral sense video games you know decent since it's rising us to violence social media with the bullying that goes on is just extreme that people can't get away from and yes I think that. Parents passing down their values their morals to their children is such an important thing not only for their children as individuals but for our society as a whole. If we cannot say that you know violence is bad we are going down the wrong way fast right. 

Rich Bennett 46:17
Oh yeah it's it actually it brings me to this too so when it comes to substance addiction alcohol addiction all all these other types of addictions a lot of times it leads back to early childhood trauma. That's what that's why you know that's how the addiction came about do you think that's the same with digital addiction. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 46:42
It can be but I don't think that's as strong of a connection necessarily. 

Rich Bennett 46:47
Okay 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 46:47
I do think that social media and to some extent video games can. fulfill our need for interaction in a fake way right we feel like we're talking to these people but we're actually just instant messaging we're actually just using Snapchat and so. It feels like we're connecting but we're really not 

Rich Bennett 47:09
right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 47:09
That's the deceptive nature of it which you know we need like we said the literal face to face interactions in order to be healthy humans. 

Rich Bennett 47:22
The way everything is advancing because if you look at it I mean god even when we were younger their you know computers run around I mean member computer class was the punch cards. but even when I was in the IT field which was not that long ago I mean your your laptop's were huge 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 47:47
Right 

Rich Bennett 47:48
they were I mean they were the size of what computers are now. But you're seeing technology is. Advances so quickly you're seeing all these apps come out even apps to say oh this will help with your anxiety you know put this app on your phone so you can meditate. 

Are there some things that are good for digital media whether it be TV phones or whatever. And we know the balance but are there any actually going out there that people can use to help them 

I guess get away from the other things. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 48:36
I you know wouldn't be able to not not really wear specific ones that I would recommend I would say that like you said technology is here to stay. 

Rich Bennett 48:45
Yeah 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 48:46
I think that we can use it as a tool in some ways and it does allow us to stay connected in a sense to people that we probably wouldn't stay connected with otherwise but we have 

Rich Bennett 48:58
right 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 48:58
to use that connection wisely and that's where again. As an adult we can be a little bit wiser than a 15 year old even even though as adults we can be addicted to social media scroll for sure and use that those apps unwisely. But yeah you know it's it's difficult out there I tell you 

Rich Bennett 49:20
yeah oh now wait I remember when we first with our daughter when we first allowed her to start using it. I think we there are restrictions and she was awarded like a certain amount of time to use it. I think it may be something that society has caught away from, too. You know, if you want social media, you want to watch TV or whatever, Then, for the kids, award them that time, but stick to that time, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 49:54
right? 

Rich Bennett 49:54
you know, if they want to watch Blueie or whatever on 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 49:58
[whimpering] 

Rich Bennett 49:59
TV. Uh, but I also think, as adults, I think what we need to do is schedule the time that we're on it. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 50:09
Right, 

Rich Bennett 50:10
Eh, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 50:10
right. We go. 

Rich Bennett 50:11
that's 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 50:11
limits on ourselves. There are, I think, multiple apps out there that can turn off other apps at 

Rich Bennett 50:19
mmm-hmm, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 50:19
certain times of day, or just say, you know, you're only gonna be allowed X amount of minutes per 24-hour period on this app. And so there are those apps out there for adults, and that can be helpful for adults, uh, somewhat, you know, for teenagers as well. But I think mainly for adults because teenagers can get around all of 

Rich Bennett 50:38
[whimpering] 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 50:38
the- --walks and they- they figured out, even if your child is not tech savvy, I guarantee you they have at least one friend who is. And so parents who think, "Oh, I gave my son an iPhone, but we have all the blockers on it, we have all the restrictions blah, blah." And we're monitoring and we're seeing all this stuff, they're just kidding themselves. 

Rich Bennett 50:59
Well, think about how many parents are actually asking their kids to teach them. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 51:05
Right, right. Yes. And so they don't know- they readily admit they don't know, but they- they do those things to help themselves feel better when there's no way 

Rich Bennett 51:13
[Laughs] 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 51:13
to keep up with seeing and knowing everything that your child is doing online. And so I say, instead of driving yourself crazy by trying to monitor, just step away from it and say, you know, you're not going to use that, you're going to call your friends on a real telephone, and you're going to get together with them face-to-face, and all of that. 

Rich Bennett 51:35
Wait a minute. You mean you can actually talk to people on your telephone? You don't have to text them? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 51:42
Right. You can actually talk. How about that? 

Rich Bennett 51:46
Alright, that's- that's another thing I don't understand. It's like, when did- when did kids- when did stop talking to people, it's constantly- oh, I'll text them. No. Call them. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 51:59
That's just, you know, they don't have enough practice. I remember when I was very young, my mother, you know, teaching me how to have telephone conversations, we would 

Rich Bennett 52:08
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 52:08
call up my aunt and practice talking, saying hello, saying a few things, being able to say goodbye, and like, you know, and then being able to talk to companies or to talk to and make yourself an appointment. Things like that. And so again, those things have to be taught and practiced. But yes, I'm coming across many young people who do not want to talk on the phone, they'll text all day, but it's like extreme anxiety to have a telephone conversation, 

Rich Bennett 52:36
Oh, I'm even seeing a thoughts like that too. And it's crazy. I don't understand it. Yeah, I mean, you even see it with- with the workforce. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 52:47
right? 

Rich Bennett 52:47
You know, it used to be- if you were sick, you would have to call up and talk to someone and tell them that you're not making it in today. Nowadays, you just text them. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 52:59
Right. I 

Rich Bennett 52:59
was like, yeah, I'm not feeling well, I'm sorry. I'm the owner of that company, and I can't hear that you're sick in your voice, a 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 53:07
If 

Rich Bennett 53:07
text they're going to tell me. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 53:08
Right, 

Rich Bennett 53:10
you better call me, and you better sound like you're on your deathbed. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 53:17
Talk, talking about physical sickness. There are so many ways in which too much screen time damages our physical health and physical 

Rich Bennett 53:25
development. Oh, yeah, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 53:26
that people have no idea. 

Rich Bennett 53:30
I'm glad you brought that up. Explained some of these physical, I want to say, 

not physical malfunctions, almost like this because some people become disabled from them. So, what are some of these problems that people are having physically? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 53:51
Well, there are developmental problems in the developmental process and then there are also other physical health problems that can develop later on. So, as far as developmentally, for example, if a child is not moving around enough, if they're not running and playing and jumping, their vestibular system is not going to develop properly. Which is your balance, your inner ear, that's your vestibular system, which also controls your arousal level. So, 

Rich Bennett 54:22
Oh, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 54:22
if a child cannot regulate how alert or how sleepy they are, so to speak, their arousal 

Rich Bennett 54:31
right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 54:31
level, I mean, that's a serious issue. And 

Rich Bennett 54:34
yeah, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 54:34
who are sitting around all day and not physically moving your body, these young little bitty children are having issues with that. And again, that is something that is, you know, pretty deep as far as learning about physical development. But I think it's necessary now for us to know those things. with physical development. And 

Rich Bennett 54:56
Yeah, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 54:57
that just being so critical for children to move and to learn how to move their bodies and to control their bodies. Listen to this. Because, you know, we spend such a small amount of time outdoors, but did you know that in the US, the if you are a federal prisoner in a maximum security prison, you are guaranteed two hours of outside time every day. 

Rich Bennett 55:23
Yeah, some people don't even want to go out for five minutes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 55:26
Right, 

Rich Bennett 55:28
right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 55:28
A amount of time that people spend outside is like just a few minutes a day. 

Rich Bennett 55:33
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 55:33
And it's just unbelievably terrible. So it's like, okay, I want my kid to have at least as much time as the federal prisoners, so go outside, right. And so those developmental issues, but then we have children and teenagers developing metabolic that used to not occur in younger people at all. So metabolic syndromes are things such as the high blood sugar, high blood pressure, 

Rich Bennett 56:02
syndromes 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 56:02
midsection weight gain, type two diabetes, pre-diabetes, those syndromes and issues used to not be affecting young people at all. And even in the older population, it was a very small percentage. And we see those metabolic issues exploding. 

Rich Bennett 56:19
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 56:19
Now, with just being so sedentary and we could be sedentary before, but social media and video games has just so much increased our amount of sedentary time that that's what we're doing to our bodies. Now another part of this is that video games especially, The person playing the video game is going to be feeling a sense of enjoyment of course, right. They're going to be having fun. They're enjoying themselves. They're having a little bit of that adrenaline rush. It's going to keep them playing. 

Rich Bennett 56:50
right. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 56:51
So they're feeling a happy excitement. Their body is interpreting an internalizing danger fear. It is turning your body's fight or flight system on. So your body is then going to be producing high levels of cortisol and fight or flight. And if you're sticking your body in that kind of a state for hours and hours every day, that high stress, we've already done a pretty good job of educating people about the effects of chronic stress, right. 

Rich Bennett 57:26
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 57:27
But people aren't realizing they're stressed because they're having fun. But their body is interpreting physical danger. 

Rich Bennett 57:35
And the parents don't realize that they see them having fun and don't think it. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 57:39
Yeah, no, 

Rich Bennett 57:40
Wow. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 57:40
even adults I think would just say, Oh, this is fun. I'm enjoying this. This is 

Rich Bennett 57:44
yeah 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 57:44
adrenaline and this is great, but their body is interpreting danger, fighter flight and those. Those hormones are being produced in the body, which again, long term, not good at all. 

Rich Bennett 57:58
Well, the other thing is too. And you're seeing this a lot. Look how many kids are getting like tech neck, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 58:06
right. 

Rich Bennett 58:07
You know, because they're constantly looking down, even I would say even carpal tunnel syndrome. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 58:12
Yes, both of those are on the rise. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 58:15
It's and I would not be surprised. There may not be studies out of that this yet. But because of sitting down so long in a blood circulation. I wouldn't be surprised to see cancer on a rise and younger people. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 58:32
There I think cancer is on the rise, that goes to the 

Rich Bennett 58:37
wow, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 58:38
the wifi, putting your phone in your pocket 

Rich Bennett 58:41
we 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 58:41
and 

Rich Bennett 58:42
study 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 58:43
is about, you know, lower sperm count in young men. And lower testosterone levels. And I hate to know when I see women who stick their phone in their bra. Is that going to end up in breast cancer? 

You know, I do own a phone, but I keep it away from my body. 

Rich Bennett 59:02
Yeah, I, I'm 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:05
thought. 

Rich Bennett 59:05
man. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:05
And those who 

Rich Bennett 59:06
I 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:06
sleep 

Rich Bennett 59:06
never 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:06
with it by their sleep with it by their head. 

Rich Bennett 59:10
Well, well, see, that's another thing. People don't watch okay. What's in the phone? How is the phone getting its power? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:20
Right. So 

Rich Bennett 59:21
see on battery. Right. Battery. And what happens with a lot of these living on batteries? They explode 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:30
right 

Rich Bennett 59:31
or even caught while yeah. Yeah, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:33
fire, right? 

Rich Bennett 59:34
Right, because I was talking to a friend of mine who's a firefighter, and he was telling me some of these houses, and the fire was caused by a cell phone, or where's yet? They're charging their cell phone, and then when they unplugged the cell phone, they still leave the charger cable plugged into the wall. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:52
Hm. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 59:53
Which, if it's laying on a carpet or whatever, that's creating... 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 59:57
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 59:58
Yeah, and people don't think about that, even the adults. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:00:01
Yeah. Yeah, so the battery is one thing, but the Wi-Fi, waves, the internet, capabilities, that's what's really creating the radiation that can be cancer-causing. So that, again, if we see a huge rise in cancer, especially on specific parts of the body, that's not going to be good. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:23
No, it's, it's, it's scary. Everything we're seeing, and the way we're going, it's just, oh, god. I, go ahead. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:00:36
I was, I was gonna, if I was, could go back to something, and then maybe you won't forget what you're going to say. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:42
Okay, go ahead. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:00:43
So the, the video games and the rise in cortisol, another thing that video games are doing is video games train your brain to be distracted. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:54
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:00:55
So that's one reason for the rise in ADHD that we're seeing in young people these days. A psychiatrist is calling it acquired ADHD. So what we're seeing is middle schoolers or high schoolers who, in their elementary school years, had no evidence or no indication of ADHD, behaviors or symptoms, and then all of a sudden now they are. And what's happening is the social media and video games train your brain to be distracted. And here's how that happens, because you hear parents saying, oh, you know, my child is so distracted and so hyper and so wild, but then they can sit for hours and stare at their screen very 

Rich Bennett 1:01:32
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:01:32
quietly. And that's because the screen, especially video games, you are scanning that screen for any change or movement or noise. And so you're actually training your brain to pay attention to multiple things at once. Then when you go into a classroom or into a boardroom meeting, you're having a lot of trouble paying attention to one teacher who's not very engaging, right? So because you're going, 

Rich Bennett 1:01:56
yup. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:01:57
Here at this noise and see this out the window. And so it's creating a lot of ADHD issues. And that really needs to be explored before you just prescribe medication to a child because that medication is not going to counteract the brain training that you're doing. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:15
That's why that now the military that's coming at me, but that's why a lot of times you're seeing these young people going into the military because they were playing these games on while these computer games thinking they know how to shoot and all that. And then when it comes reality is very different from what you're seeing on the screen. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:02:41
It is. Absolutely. But the screen is desensitizing. I'll tell you 

Rich Bennett 1:02:46
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:02:46
something and then I would like to hear your perspective on this. So I had heard from a couple of different sources that the military would use video games to train their soldiers to be hyper vigilant. I 

Rich Bennett 1:03:01
Okay. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:03:01
have heard that a couple of places and then I also heard this was another, this is a doctor who was former military told me that the military actually went to video game developers at I believe it was the University of Michigan. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:18
Okay. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:03:18
And they asked them to develop a game to help desensitize their soldiers to killing people because they said we're having these young recruits who are having trouble pulling the trigger on a human. And so anyway, the video game developers made this video game for the military specifically. And then the developer said, hey, we can just market this to the public and that ended up being now shoot the name just just just escaped me. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:49
Call of duty. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:03:50
Yes. Call of duty. So that call of duty was first designed for the military to desensitize people. And so then we're letting our young men and even young women play it. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:01
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:04:01
And like you said, it is very true that, you know, the virtual award video games is different from reality, but it is desensitizing to the reality and young people are not realizing the consequences of real world actions like, you know, the real consequences of violence. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:19
Yeah, it's not great, and when I was in there, I think about the only video game around was TV tennis. 

I have a couple of takes on that, and I think. 

Unfortunately from what I've, the reports I've seen, people I've talked to, the military is not as strict as it was when I went in. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:04:47
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:47
For example, in basic training, you know, your own instructors cannot hit you, they can't even curse at you, they can't put your fingers, their fingers in your face and all that. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:04:58
uhm, 

Rich Bennett 1:04:59
So when it comes time, if you're in that real life situation, let's say you're taking hostage, you don't know what to do. Your loss because you did not have that interaction where somebody was actually getting on you. I remember some of the training I, some of the training I did, they would grab you in the middle of the night. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:05:25
Uh-huh. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:27
Cover your face and they would take you somewhere. You had no idea what was going on, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:05:31
Hmm, 

Rich Bennett 1:05:31
but it was all part of the training. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:05:33
right. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:33
So if it ever did happen in real life, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:05:35
mm-hmm, 

Rich Bennett 1:05:36
You are ready. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:05:37
right. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:37
And I think with the video games, that may be why, I don't know, it's just, it's scary. Now I do know that the technology in the military is out of this world. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:05:51
right 

Rich Bennett 1:05:52
I mean, think about it. I mean, you have, could be sitting here in the States, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:05:56
mm-hmm, 

Rich Bennett 1:05:57
mm-hmm. Because of the drones and everything, you could take out somebody in another country. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:06:02
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:03
You know. But at the same time, if I'm running that thing here, the controls, and I do it, and I take somebody out, it looks like a video game. So I'm not really there in person seeing it happen. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:06:17
mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:18
If I was there the person seeing it happen, it's different on the mind. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:06:23
Right. Yes. Yes. As it should be. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:27
Yeah. So I don't know, maybe that's why they're doing it because of the technology they're getting to. And people won't think that it's real life even though it is real life. Does that make sense? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:06:37
Right. Right. You know, the military, it's very tricky. Obviously, we need. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:41
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:06:41
We need a military. And we need military personnel to be able to be hyper vigilant and to be. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:47
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:06:47
Pull the trigger. But for regular civilians like me, I don't need to be hyper vigilant. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:53
No. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:06:53
I don't need to be desensitized to violence. And so, you know, it's 

Rich Bennett 1:06:58
But you also need to be able to view everything around you and not just a screen, not just screen-wide. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:06
all right. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:07
We learned this with 9/11. Be aware of your surroundings. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:11
Right. Yes, that's 

Rich Bennett 1:07:12
all the 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:13
it's true. I spoke at a conference one time and I had a booth or a table and next to me was a driving school. And they talked 

Rich Bennett 1:07:21
time. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:21
about 

Rich Bennett 1:07:21
Oh, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:22
how they can identify which teenagers play video games because they will just stare straight ahead. They will not. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:30
Oh, there's a year. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:31
They will not 

Rich Bennett 1:07:32
Yep. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:32
scan and look for other cars. I'm like, that is very dangerous. 

Rich Bennett 1:07:37
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:37
Because because as a car driver, you need to scan what's going on on, you know, this side street coming in and watch out for cars doing the wrong thing and going back to the military. You may have heard this. This recently came out from the CDC 

Rich Bennett 1:07:52
Mm-hmm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:07:52
saying that 70% of young men are not eligible for the military because of their physical health issues. They are going back to those metabolic syndromes and various things. And to me, that's a national security issue. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:06
It 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:08:06
is. Yeah. That's scary. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:08
It is. It's very scary. I 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:08:10
71% 

Rich Bennett 1:08:10
mean, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:08:12
not eligible is unreal. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:14
Well, and the sad thing is, and I don't know if it's still true, but I know it was not too long ago. If you joined the military and they did not give you what they promised, you were allowed to quit. mean, no. When I remember when I went in, when I don't basic training, there is a guy scared to death. He tried everything possible to get out, even jumping out of a third floor window, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:08:44
Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:44
all he did was break his arm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:08:47
I 

Rich Bennett 1:08:47
He drank a bottle of wisk. He tried everything to get out. And they're like, no, you are, you're property of the government now. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:08:56
Mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:57
And yeah, it's sad. You should not be able to go in and say, I call it a lot of times people get because of the gaming and everything the way they were brought up. I call it the Miss and Mommy syndrome. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:10
Okay. Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:11
Because and it's it's 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:12
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:12
true. You know, they're not ready to. They're 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:15
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:16
not used to that social activity 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:18
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:19
being around other people that they don't know. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:21
Mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:22
And then here you are. You're going. You're. Leaving your couch or your bedroom, next thing you know, you're getting off a bus being yelled at to get on the yellow footsteps and everything. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:34
mhm. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:35
And you're scared at death. You don't have any idea what to do. And that's a whole, that's that's a whole another conversation, but anyways, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:44
we're not, they're not, they're not emotionally and mentally ready for 

Rich Bennett 1:09:48
No, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:48
that. That kind of environment, which again goes to those things have to taught 

Rich Bennett 1:09:53
yes. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:54
by either taught or my end or modeled by. 

Rich Bennett 1:09:57
mhm. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:09:58
And adults. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:00
Oh, I, oh, you know what, I think I'm going to have to have you on again, but we're going to have to get some other people on and do a round table discussion on this. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:10:09
That could be interesting. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:11
It could be very interesting. I would love that. So what's one screen habit you think everyone should actually break today? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:10:19
mhm. This might be sound too simple, but might be hard for some people is no screens at the table. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner, those phones need to be gone. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:32
I agree with you 110% there. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:10:34
They need to be gone. They need to be gone. That, that could be step one. If you, yourself or your family is so steep in electronics, that's a, it's a clear boundary, not necessarily easy, but it's very clear. And to say, we're going to talk with each other as a family or we're going to have friends over and those face to face conversations, that's, you know, it could be your first tiny step right there. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:00
I'll never forget this when my daughter was younger. And we allowed her to have a cell phone. Some of her friends were coming over. So I had a basket at the front door. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:11:10
Nice. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:11
And I thought yet your cell phones had to go in the basket. Because one thing I didn't understand is they would sit around in the living room and text each 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:11:17
other. No, 

Rich Bennett 1:11:19
your guys are right there talk. It's amazing how many of them stopped coming over. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:11:24
Wow, that's 

Rich Bennett 1:11:25
Yeah, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:11:25
so bad. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:26
it's very sad. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:11:28
Wow. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:28
It just goes to show you that they know social act. It's, it's sad. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:11:35
Wow, good, good for you. you were a good parent in saying, 

Rich Bennett 1:11:38
Oh, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:11:39
you know, 

Rich Bennett 1:11:40
I, I'll be honest with you, that's one of the things I, I do miss is sitting around to take because my wife, my daughter and I, we would sit, but my daughters never hungry when we are now. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:11:54
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 1:11:55
so which is weird. And I shouldn't be doing this, but my wife and I will, when she gets home for dinner, we'll sit down and we'll watch either a cooking show. Or duck dynasty or duck family treasure. Because 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:12:12
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:12
we just, we love the fact that 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:12:14
the 

Rich Bennett 1:12:16
Roberts of family is, you know, they always end up each show with a prayer and everything. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:12:20
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:21
And it just, we love it. And then the TV goes off. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:12:25
Right. Yeah. That, that, that's the end of it, but yeah, that, 

Rich Bennett 1:12:27
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:12:28
that could be a good wholesome family show to watch together. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:31
Oh, yeah. Then I'll go work on my jigsaw puzzle and then I'll get mad and leave because my wife gets done more. All right. So something very important. Tell everybody how they can get in touch with you. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:12:43
Well, 

Rich Bennett 1:12:43
the website and everything. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:12:45
Yeah. So I'll you what, you can get in touch with me the old fashioned way if you want to. You can call me on the phone. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:51
I love it. God. I love it. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:12:53
My phone number is 501 2907132. Call me up and I'll see how I can help you. Right. You have, you have questions. You wonder things. Just call me up. Okay. If you're right to do, to do that, I do have a website. It is life. Walk coaching.com. So walk is w-a-l-k-life. Walk coaching.com. You will not find me on social media. Okay. That's so funny. I, I was at a networking event one time and I was telling this lady what I did and she was, oh, that's so great. That's so needed and she was like, do you make TikTok videos about it and I 

Rich Bennett 1:13:33
like, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:13:33
was no. If you ever see me on TikTok, you'll know it's not really me. Okay. It's an AI bot that's trying to pretend to be me. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:46
Oh God. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:13:47
So, but I have my phone number and my website feel free to reach out just with questions or whatever and I'll see how I can help. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:55
I've finally heard that Southern draw come 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:13:57
out. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:00
All right. So, Mary Katherine, for my last, actually before I get to my last question, is there anything you would like to add? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:14:09
I always just like to say finally, you know, I want to be an instiller of hope. Don't give up hope. We've talked about a lot of negative depressing things haven't we rich. And I can just get real depressed, real fast thinking about all of these things. But there is hope. You know, even if you have failed in the past and have really, really struggled, get some help. You know, I don't think there's, you know, very few people who conquer the cocaine addiction all by themselves, right? That's almost unheard of. They had, they had peer support, they had a mentor, they had a sponsor. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:44
They had helped some 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:14:45
another. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:45
way or 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:14:46
If you're struggling by yourself, get some help. And I think it's so important to think about our own childhoods and how most of us had it pretty good, right? Those, 

Rich Bennett 1:14:56
yeah, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:14:57
unfortunate to have, you know, a family and we, we played outside and we had friends that we got together with in person. So think back to that and say, I want that for my children. I want that for myself. That's what's good and healthy. And so it's worth it to get back to that. It really is. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:16
Yeah, I think I'm going to try and experiment. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:15:19
Okay, tell me. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:20
I mean, and I think all the listeners, I want you to try this as well. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:15:24
Okay, 

Rich Bennett 1:15:24
Wherever you live, drive around town and look to see how many like swing sets, sandboxes or something like that, you see in people's yards. 

I bet you'd be surprised that there's probably not a lot out there 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:15:43
anymore. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:44
I mean, you think that when we were growing up, I think every yard that had, if there were kids almost every yard had a sandbox, a kitty pole, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:15:52
Swing, 

Rich Bennett 1:15:53
something for the kid, yes, something for the kids to play on. Yeah, and you do see them in parks. But how many of those parks do the kids go to by themselves? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:04
Hopefully not any. You need a parent with you. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:06
Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Nowadays. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:08
Right. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:08
So, so Mary Katherine, for my last question, this, this is kind of different. This is something I started a while ago. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:16
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:17
I have 50 different questions here. Don't worry. I'm not going to answer every question. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:22
All right. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:23
But I have no idea what the question is going to be. So I need you pick a number between one and 50. And I want to see how good you are at this because I've had a few people. The number they picked, the question just for somehow or another aligned with what we are talking about. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:38
Okay. Did you say a number between one and 15? 

Rich Bennett 1:16:42
One and 50? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:44
One and 50. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:45
Yeah. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:45
let's see. I will pick 32. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:51
Okay. Why 32? Oh, that's your age. Okay. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:54
No, I'm a little 

Rich Bennett 1:16:55
bit old. I'm not off. That's 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:16:57
down a little bit. 

Rich Bennett 1:16:59
Oh, 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:17:01
32. 

Rich Bennett 1:17:02
it? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:17:02
What is 

Rich Bennett 1:17:02
This could be a good one. That's well, in a way, you could tie it to what we were talking about because it could help if you're mental health and everything. If you could travel to any point in the, oh, yes, if you could travel to any point in the future or past, when would you go and what would you hope to see or learn? It does align with what we are talking about. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:17:29
It does. It does. Going back to it at simpler times. 

Well, I wouldn't necessarily want to go too, too far back, but... 

Rich Bennett 1:17:40
Or you can go into the 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:17:41
future. Right. Or future. I'm not going into the future. It'll come fast enough for me. So a sort of cliche is this sounds I would probably go back to the Little House in the prairie days. I remember that reading that series growing up, and yes, it was on TV as well, but reading it, my parents read it aloud to me, and I would want to go back there. There were problems back then, yes. You know, life was hard in different ways, and I think I would rather tackle those problems than the problems I have to tackle. 

Rich Bennett 1:18:23
I love that. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:18:24
And so there was a second part to the question. 

Rich Bennett 1:18:28
Oh, what would you hope to see or learn? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:18:38
would want to see a lot of really crystal clear lakes and springs, and that might be a different kind of answer. But I just like clean water. I like being around water, and they just drink directly from the river for 

Rich Bennett 1:18:55
I 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:18:55
a lot of times, or they had a will, but I just think that'd be beautiful, and very peaceful, I love the outdoors. As far as what I would learn, there would be so many things about just how to take care of yourself, right, and how to be a self-sustaining individual with growing your own food, and canning, and building your own house. I don't know what I would but just any of those types of things I think would just be really neat. 

Rich Bennett 1:19:25
I would love 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:19:26
it. No, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:19:27
I would. I mean, Learn how to farm and everything and.. and join nature? 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:19:34
Right? Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:19:35
I mean, you think about it. Little house on the prairie, all the different animals 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:19:40
Mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 1:19:40
and... Plants and everything. They see Granite. Some of them would eat you. But still, *laughs* It can be fun! *laughs* 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:19:50
Right, right. 

Rich Bennett 1:19:50
Well, Mary Catherine, I want to thank you so much. She's been a true honor Those of you listening, if you have any questions, you got Mary, tell everybody the phone number again. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:20:03
It's 501-290-7132. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:10
There's that Southern Draw again! In the tape! Give her a call and, uhm, God, yes, please respond to... to this, you know, you can leave a voicemail for me or even call me. I- this is something that we will be talking about again and I definitely do want to do a roundtable on it. I think it's very important. So, Mary, Catherine, thank you so much. 

Mary Catherine Liscinski 1:20:36
You're very welcome, Rich, I have thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with you and hopefully all of you listeners out there have benefited and been encouraged. 

Rich Bennett 1:20:44
Oh, I'm sure they have! 

Rich Bennett 1:20:47
Thank you for listening to the Conversations with Rich Bennet. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love it if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at Conversations with Rich Bennet.com for updates, giveaways, and more. Until next time, take care, be kind, and keep the conversations going. You know, it takes a lot to put a podcast together and and my sponsors help add a lot, but I also have some supporters that actually help me when it comes to the editing software, the hosting and so forth. There's a lot that goes into putting this together. So I want to thank them and if you can please please visit their websites, visit their businesses, support them however you can. Share your stories, visit the following. Real-life Real life prosthetics, cutting edge solutions, restoring ability since 2001. Go to reallifeparastetics.com. Full circle boards, nobody does charcuterie like full circle boards. Visit them at fullcircleboards.com. Sincerely, Sincerely, Sincerely Sawyer Photography. Live in the moment. They'll capture it. Visit them at sincerlysoyer.com.