Mia Hanks on Escaping Narcissistic Abuse and Reclaiming Freedom

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we've shared laughs, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios Hartford County Living Presence conversations with Rich Bennett. 

No. 

Welcome

Rich Bennett 1:01
to Conversations with Rich Bennett. Today, we have a powerful and deeply personal episode. As I sit down with Mia Hanks, author of Bridemaid, a memoir that shines a light on the hidden world of narcissistic abuse. In her book, Mia shares her journey of breaking free from a nearly three decade-long marriage that looked perfect from the outside, but was anything but behind closed doors. Her story is one of resilience, self-discovery, and ultimately reclaiming her life. Just as we dive into Mia's experiences, the red flags of covert narcissism and the steps to healing and empowerment, this is a conversation you won't want to miss. So, 

sit back and 

fair warning. If you are triggered by any of this, then I don't want to say tune out, but hopefully you can learn from it. So how are you doing, Mia? 

Mia Hanks 2:05
I'm good. Thank you so much. 

Rich Bennett 2:07
Oh, I'm glad you came on because this is something that I believe needs to be discussed. Now, glad you wrote the book, and I'm sure, and actually I can already tell, just by looking at the reviews you've gotten on Goodreads and Amazon, you are helping a lot of people. So, 

I definitely want to applaud you for that. But what actually inspired you to write "bright" made? And did you find the writing process like cathartic or challenging? 

Mia Hanks 2:41
Well, as far as why I wrote it, when I got out of my marriage, I was really looking for all information I could find on narcissism. It was just when I realized that's what had been going on for nearly three decades, like you said. I just wanted to learn more about this and what other people experienced being with narcissistic partners. And I found a lot of stuff out there, but it was all things that were written by therapists and psychologists. So, it was very academic, great information. But I really wanted an insider point of view, and I couldn't find that. So, I thought, maybe if I wrote a memoir, maybe that might help other people out there that are looking for the same information I was looking for. So, 

Rich Bennett 3:32
yeah, 

Mia Hanks 3:32
so that's kind of the story about how it came to be. 

As far as it being therapeutic, I was very surprised. I thought it would be more challenging. 

Rich Bennett 3:44
Yeah. 

Mia Hanks 3:44
It turned out to be extremely therapeutic to put those stories in two words, 

Rich Bennett 3:51
right, 

Mia Hanks 3:51
paper. And I felt, you know, it was kind of a release when I did that. So definitely 

very surprisingly, so it was quite therapeutic. 

Rich Bennett 4:03
And correct me if I'm wrong, you weren't a writer before you wrote this, right? 

Mia Hanks 4:07
No, not at all, not at all. Which was, you know, gave me some hesitation as to whether or not it was a project that I wanted to tackle. But, 

Rich Bennett 4:16
Right. 

Mia Hanks 4:16
you know, I thought maybe the information was something that was really needed. So, yeah, I thought, well, I guess I'll just give it a go, and, you know, if anything, it's just going to sound very real. 

Rich Bennett 4:29
And 

Mia Hanks 4:30
I thought maybe having not been a writer, perhaps that could help me connect really with, you know, with readers out there, just kind of in my own words. And yeah. So hopefully, you know, hopefully there was some benefit in that. 

Rich Bennett 4:48
Yeah. Well, actually, how did you push past any doubts or fears about sharing your story? Because that could be... I mean, granted, I know today more people are talking about it, but still not 

Mia Hanks 5:01
a lot. Right. 

Rich Bennett 5:02
How did you... Yeah, how did you push past all that? 

Mia Hanks 5:04
It is kind of a a newfound topic of discussion, I think, 

Rich Bennett 5:09
Yeah, 

Mia Hanks 5:10
and so yeah, you know you coming out of this, I really didn't think that I didn't realize how many people were affected by narcissists. And so when I came to realize that and just through social media and my TikTok account, I hear from a lot of people and I just sort of as hard as it was because I tend to be very guarded. And when I don't like to share a lot, but I just felt like wow, there are a lot of people out here that that are victims. And I think people need this information. So it really 

Rich Bennett 5:46
yeah, absolutely. 

Mia Hanks 5:47
became a matter of I think this needs to be, to be said. And 

Rich Bennett 5:52
needs 

Mia Hanks 5:53
yeah, so I kind of had to get over my guardedness and kind of take down those walls and tell my story and hopes that it will resonate with somebody else. 

Rich Bennett 6:04
And you were married for well, three decades, but not thirty years, right? 

Mia Hanks 6:08
At twenty nine years, actually. 

Rich Bennett 6:10
So it was a particular moment or event that made you realize you needed to get out of the marriage. 

Mia Hanks 6:18
think I had been wanting out for a long time. 

Rich Bennett 6:21
I 

Mia Hanks 6:21
But you know, you kind of just was young when I got married. I sort of fell into this and It was what I knew and just kind of 

Rich Bennett 6:30
yeah, 

Mia Hanks 6:30
became my normal. So yeah, I mean, I wanted out, but I think I didn't want to admit that to myself. As far as, you know, what finally made me leave, it really was just narcissistism does not get better. I think 

Rich Bennett 6:45
right. 

Mia Hanks 6:45
sometimes people think if I hold out, if I hang in there a little bit longer, things are going to get better. It only gets worse. And with that getting worse came a lot of effects on my physical health, you know, living under that stress and being in that fight or flight mode all the time. Our bodies aren't cut out for that. So I was suffering from chronic pain, lots of anxiety attacks, headaches, stomach aches, and it really became a, it can't do a point when I realized it wasn't sustainable. And so, yeah, it was really my physical body that said, you got to get out or, you know, you're aren't going to survive 

Rich Bennett 7:26
this. I don't think I've ever asked this question. In fact, I know I never asked this question. We talk about mental health a lot. You know, when it comes to anxiety and depression and some other things, you can, you can learn how to control that. 

Mia Hanks 7:41
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 7:42
With narcissism considered a mental illness 

Mia Hanks 7:47
It actually, 

Rich Bennett 7:47
that you 

Mia Hanks 7:47
in us, yeah, it's a narcissistic personality disorder. It's an at 

Rich Bennett 7:52
know, okay. 

Mia Hanks 7:52
will diagnosable disorder. The problem is most people who have this disorder are never diagnosed because, 

Rich Bennett 7:59
oh 

Mia Hanks 7:59
You diagnosed, you have to, you know, entertain the thought that maybe there is something wrong with you, which 

Rich Bennett 8:06
yeah. 

Mia Hanks 8:06
my design narcissists don't do. So we really don't know the statistics on, you know, I've heard 2% of the population is actually diagnosed with NPD, but those are the people that actually get diagnosed. So we don't really know. But yeah, it's actually a condition. It's not just personality traits or a way of behaving. It is a diagnosable disorder. 

Rich Bennett 8:35
I did not know that. 

Mia Hanks 8:36
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 8:37
I'm glad you were able to answer that. 

Mia Hanks 8:40
Yeah, I think the DSM, there are nine traits and 

Rich Bennett 8:45
yeah. 

Mia Hanks 8:46
You possess five or more of them. You know, generally that's a, that's a diagnosed case of NPD. 

Rich Bennett 8:53
So after you got out of the marriage, what's life been like for you since 

Mia Hanks 9:00
It's been interesting, you know, right away, within the first two weeks of being out of that environment, I felt like a completely different person. You know, I was able to, I felt like I could breathe again. 

Rich Bennett 9:14
then? Right. 

Mia Hanks 9:15
I felt like I could relax, which I don't think I had done in many years. So it, but it was just, I think the most overwhelming part of it was just the freedom. It was literally waking up one morning and realizing I can choose what I want to do today. You know, I don't have to answer 

Rich Bennett 9:32
Yeah. 

Mia Hanks 9:32
to anyone. I don't have to be critiqued by anyone. I can make my own decisions. And that was a little bit scary too, because. 

Rich Bennett 9:41
Oh, I bet. 

Mia Hanks 9:42
yeah, I had not had that freedom in so many years. So it's sort of, you know, you sort of ask yourself, "What do I do? What do I do now? Where do I go? I have no idea. I had always been told I couldn't survive without him." You know, he wanted me to be dependent on him and you could never make it on your own. So definitely scary, but at the same time, very exciting, you know? And just I take it one day at a time and certainly I have not looked back. I have zero regrets about leaving and only wish that I would have done it many, many years ago. But hindsight is 2020 and, you know, here we are. So. 

Rich Bennett 10:24
Now, do you communicate with him at all? 

Mia Hanks 10:26
I do not. Now, which is interesting. We have two kids, both of our kids are 

Rich Bennett 10:32
Oh. 

Mia Hanks 10:32
run. So I waited until, I waited to leave until both of my kids are run, which, you know, I have regrets about waiting so long, but it did make it a little easier and that I didn't have to deal with family court custody issues. You know, that would have been just an entire nightmare. So yes, we do have two grown children, but he and I have zero communication. And yeah, that works for me. 

Rich Bennett 11:01
Right. Now, if you don't mind me asking, when you told him you were leaving, what was his response? 

Mia Hanks 11:07
So I didn't actually have a conversation with him where I said I'm leaving. I was 

Rich Bennett 11:13
Oh. 

Mia Hanks 11:14
very much, I was very fearful. So when you're, you know, when you're leaving a narcissist, I think the one thing people have to realize is you are not leaving a neurotypical person. 

This is somebody who, you know, they don't accept to know for an answer. They don't get discarded. And so you don't know what might trigger them. So I was very much in fear of, you know, how do I do this? And 

Rich Bennett 11:40
Right. 

Mia Hanks 11:41
so I basically, I kind of loved slowly. I fortunately, my parents lived about 15 minutes from me. 

And so I kept making excuses for needing to stay at their house and 

Rich Bennett 11:54
Mhm. 

Mia Hanks 11:54
to be over there and slowly just kind of slipped away. And then from a distance told him, I need, I need some time. I need some time for myself. You know, I don't think I'm doing well and I just need a break. 

And that break turned into weeks and then months and, 

finally, finally, it took about a year and 

Rich Bennett 12:19
Wow. 

Mia Hanks 12:19
the before I filed for divorce, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 12:22
Wow. Well, I mean, that being, if you were afraid, that was a smart way to do it. I 

Mia Hanks 12:29
I was, you know, I was afraid. And a lot of people 

Rich Bennett 12:32
would think, yeah. Yeah. 

Mia Hanks 12:32
say when you leave a narcissist, you know, I think that the go to advice is you leave and you break all contact, you know, contact. You, that didn't feel safe, you know? I felt like that was too abrupt and that would 

trigger a reaction in him that I probably didn't want to see. So I felt like kind of a slow, you know, instead of a no communication, kind of a slow enough communication, was a little bit easier. Definitely took longer. Like I say, I waited a year before I filed for divorce and, you know, I could go into why that was a mistake from the divorced standpoint. It gave him a lot of, a lot of time to move finances around and--

Rich Bennett 13:21
Oh. 

Mia Hanks 13:21
Yeah, so, you know, pros and cons there too. 

I think I waited too long. I shouldn't have given him that much lead time, but, you know, I did--

Rich Bennett 13:32
But you gotta think of your health both mentally and physically as well. You 

Mia Hanks 13:36
Right. 

Rich Bennett 13:36
can't put a price on that. 

Mia Hanks 13:37
You really can't and I felt like that's what I needed to do to feel safe. So, yeah, I mean, you know, it did give him a lot of time to make plans and, you know, probably didn't work out in my favor, but I think it kept me 

Rich Bennett 13:55
safe. 

All right, Mia, in all honesty, do you feel better now? 

Mia Hanks 14:01
Oh, 100%. A thousand percent. 

Rich Bennett 14:02
Then it did work out in your favor. 

Mia Hanks 14:04
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. I, like I say, I definitely would have done things somewhat differently if I had it to do over again as far as the leaving and whatnot. I was really in a fog and I think people coming out of these relationships are. You've been trauma bonded, you've basically been, 

it's Stockholm syndrome is what it is. So I came out of this marriage saying, well, you know, I'm going to give him some time and I'm going to wait to file and I think he's going to be really fair and this is all going to just work out great. You know, and everybody around me is saying, no, no, it's not. You need to get ready for a fight. And I'm like, no, no, it's, you know, it's this all going to be fine and really living in this fantasy world. And of course, I was wrong. And it was a huge fight. So yeah, I would have done some things differently. I probably would have just been a little more prepared for for that such a contentious divorce. But like I say, coming out of this relationship and like other victims, you are really, you know, you're still trauma bonded. And I think people have to realize that. 

Rich Bennett 15:16
Actually, what point did you realize that you were experiencing what was narcissistic abuse? 

Mia Hanks 15:25
You know, it wasn't until after I left and I started really diving into 

Rich Bennett 15:29
Really? 

Mia Hanks 15:30
research and saying, what is going on here? Like something is so wrong. And I just started googling things, you know, and I came across narcissism and I thought, this is it. I mean, it every box checked. It was the most 

Rich Bennett 15:45
wow, 

Mia Hanks 15:45
lightening thing I have ever read. And yeah, I mean, I knew something was terribly wrong. I knew I had to get out to save myself. But I didn't have a name for it until I found narcissism and specifically covert narcissist. And yeah, wow, that was eye opening. 

Rich Bennett 16:05
Okay. So for those unfamiliar with the term, can you actually explain what covert narcissism is and how it differs from overt narcissism? 

Mia Hanks 16:14
Yeah. So covert narcissism, just like it sounds, these people are very covert. And so out in public, these narcissists appear to be anything but a narcissist. They are kind, they're empathetic, they're generous, they're they're just so caring and, you know, husband of the year, father of the year. But behind closed doors, I mean, that's just a mask that they wear. Behind closed doors, they're manipulative, controlling, abusive. And so it makes it very difficult for the victim because everyone on the outside is saying, wow, your husband is so great, you know, and, and you have the perfect life and, and he's so wonderful and try to get people to believe you. 

Rich Bennett 17:00
Yeah. 

Mia Hanks 17:00
You're quite challenging because, you know, you want to say, actually he's not that great. You know, but who's going to believe you? So it's a, it's a, it's a dangerous dynamic. 

Rich Bennett 17:12
Actually, why do you think narcissistic abuse can be so hard for outsiders to recognize? 

Mia Hanks 17:19
You know, it's so insidious that if you haven't lived it and you haven't been through it, I think it's really 

Rich Bennett 17:26
Yeah. 

Mia Hanks 17:26
hard to believe that somebody could have those types of motives. You know, I was very naive when I got married and, you know, thought the world was great and everyone had great intentions and everyone was good. And really, unless experienced life with one of these kinds of people, it's hard to believe, it really is. 

Rich Bennett 17:47
Yeah. 

Mia Hanks 17:48
You know, somebody that has a nice solid marriage would look at that and say, well, it can't be that bad. You know, how can it be that bad? You stayed 29 years. How could it really be that bad? So it's, you know, that's a question I get a lot. 

Rich Bennett 18:03
Yeah. But the other thing is too. guys had two kids. That makes it even harder, I would think. 

Mia Hanks 18:07
Oh, definitely. Definitely. I mean, you feel you feel stuck and and and not just not just because of the kids, but if you're with a narcissist, chances are they are controlling 100% of the finances. And so there is financial abuse as well. And, you know, it takes money to leave and you can't just walk out the door. So if you have access to 

money, it becomes very challenging. And I think a lot of women, especially, will just sit back and say, you know, this is just too daunting. This is just, it's not possible. And so I'm just as miserable as I am, I'm going to stay in this environment that's familiar to me. And I'll just make the best of it. But like I say, the problem is narcissism gets worse with age. Oh, 

Rich Bennett 18:57
oh, 

Mia Hanks 18:59
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 19:00
really? Oh, 

Mia Hanks 19:01
definitely. Most definitely. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 19:03
So many victims of narcissistic abuse don't even realize that they're being manipulated. 

Mia Hanks 19:11
I think I think that's true. I don't think they realize, especially if they came into the relationship as naive as I was. 

Rich Bennett 19:20
Right? 

Mia Hanks 19:20
You tend to... And I think we want to think that we're living a quote-unquote normal life. We want to be 

Rich Bennett 19:27
Right. 

Mia Hanks 19:27
normal. We want to feel like, you know, this is okay. And so I think a lot of people don't realize they may realize something's not quite right, but they don't realize the extent of the damage that's being done to them until there's a lot of damage. 

Rich Bennett 19:43
So what are some early flags that people should look for in a relationship? 

Mia Hanks 19:47
I would definitely... 

Rich Bennett 19:48
Early red flags, I'm sorry. 

Mia Hanks 19:50
Yeah, red flags. I would definitely say a lack of empathy. You know, if you're with someone who, you know, they can't self-reflect or they can't apologize, that's a big thing. A narcissist don't apologize, and if they do, it's not genuine, but if they can't reflect, if they can't put themselves in someone else's shoes. If they can't see things from someone else's perspective and just have a general lack of empathy, that is a huge red flag and one that I noticed very early, but, you know, I wrote it off as a personality quirk and just said, 'Well, you know, he's just, you know, we're young and, you know, this will get better. Of course, it doesn't.' But 

Rich Bennett 20:35
Right. 

Mia Hanks 20:35
those little things, those little things that you notice, and pay attention to how this person makes you feel about yourself, you know, and are you too dependent on this person, that's another thing. So those are little things to look out for because those little things end up becoming big things later. 

Rich Bennett 20:55
Hmm. Hmm. 

God. How long ago did you leave if you don't mind me asking? 

Mia Hanks 21:05
Yeah, it's been, I left about three years ago. 

Rich Bennett 21:12
Oh, wow, so that's pretty recent. 

Mia Hanks 21:14
Yeah, it is very recent. It took me a year then to file for divorce, and then our whole divorce took a year. So it was a lengthy process, and I certainly, you know, wasn't intending for it to stretch off that long, but it did. 

Rich Bennett 21:28
Right. 

Mia Hanks 21:29
So yeah, it's still pretty fresh. 

Rich Bennett 21:32
So what were the kids reaction when you left? 

Mia Hanks 21:36
Um, interestingly enough, the kids were... Right. I think in some way happy for me, 

Rich Bennett 21:43
Right. 

Mia Hanks 21:44
um, I think they noticed a change in me pretty quickly, and just saw that I was happier that I was more relaxed, and I think they saw, wow, you know, I think moms do a lot better. 

They've been very supportive from day one. Now, on the flip side of that, they also still have a decent relationship with their father, which he's their dad, so, you 

Rich Bennett 22:11
Right. 

Mia Hanks 22:11
know, they should, right? But that's still kind of hard, you know. But I guess the good thing is they are adults, and I've been able to have these conversations with them. And they're very aware, and they knew growing up that their dad was not, you know, he was a little off, and, and they struggled with him growing up. But we've been able to have good conversations. They understand that he is what he is, and, you know, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 22:41
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

If you're looking for a way to unwind and relax after a long day, go to the place that I go to look no further than serenity salt spa. Their state of the art facility offers a variety of services to help you de-stress and rejuvenate. You can step into their salt room, and let the healing properties of salt therapy work their magic on your mind and body. Or try one of their massages to ease tension and promote deep relaxation. At serenity salt spa, they believe that self-care is essential for a happy and healthy life. Book your appointment today and experience the ultimate in relaxation. You know they're good, the reviews say it all. Otherwise, they would not have earned the Harvard County Living Stamp of Approval. Go to serenitysaltspot. net, again, that's 

serenitysaltspot. net, or give them a call at 

443-640-6020. And again, that's 

443-640-6020. Okay, so when they were younger, how did you manage to maintain a sense of normacy for them at home? 

Mia Hanks 24:06
That was that was difficult. 

Rich Bennett 24:09
Yeah, oh, I bet! 

Mia Hanks 24:09
It was. And it just kept my stress level sky high all the time. He would often kind of pit me against the kids. Narcissists tend to be jealous of their children. So he liked to put me in a situation where I had to choose. Is it me or 

Rich Bennett 24:27
me? 

Mia Hanks 24:27
is it 

Rich Bennett 24:27
Oh, God. 

Mia Hanks 24:28
And so it really left me spread too thin. Right? Because I 

Rich Bennett 24:33
didn't 

Mia Hanks 24:34
mean to be everything for everybody. And yeah, it was definitely definitely challenging. Somehow we somehow we all survived. We made it, but it wasn't easy. No. 

Rich Bennett 24:50
Okay. So during all this time when you guys were together, because in the book you mentioned experiencing self doubt and gaslighting. 

Mia Hanks 24:58
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 24:59
How did this actually affect your mental and emotional well-being over the years? And did actually go door in the marriage, were you going to therapy or anything? 

Mia Hanks 25:09
No, we went to. We went to 

Rich Bennett 25:11
Wow. 

Mia Hanks 25:12
therapy at the end of our marriage. And interestingly enough, it was his idea to go. 

Rich Bennett 25:17
What? 

Mia Hanks 25:19
Yeah. Well, so Narcissists typically, I would say most probably like going to therapy. 

Rich Bennett 25:26
Really? 

Mia Hanks 25:27
Do because what they can do is manipulate the therapist and they see it as a way of getting what they want. So we didn't go to therapy that last year. And it was quite interesting, because 

he was using it as a way to go in each week. Tell the therapist everything that was wrong with me. We only really want to talk about me. I didn't say much in these sessions. I kind of just took it all in. And after about I would say eight to ten sessions, the therapist actually kicked him out of therapy. 

Rich Bennett 26:01
Really? 

Mia Hanks 26:02
I've never seen, never heard of the happening in my entire life. But yeah, she said, she said that she just said, I can't help you anymore. She said, there's nothing I can do, because you can't see things from other people's perspectives. And she said, there's just there's no hope here. So I 

thought, 

Rich Bennett 26:22
wow, yeah, in a way. 

Mia Hanks 26:25
yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 26:26
Yeah, 

Mia Hanks 26:26
yeah, fortunately she was a very informed therapist. And you know, she took several sessions to really study the dynamic and she figured him out and said, no. And you know, Narcissists are they don't benefit from therapy. They like to go as a means of control, but there's there's no fixing them unless they want to be fixed. And by the nature of their personality disorder, they don't think they need to be fixed. 

Rich Bennett 26:56
Yeah, holy cow, I want to talk to that therapist. 

Mia Hanks 27:02
Yeah, it was so interesting. You know, 

Rich Bennett 27:04
I've never heard that 

Mia Hanks 27:06
no, I have any other. And she, you know, she said, she said as much as I would like to sit here and continue to take your money. You know, I can in good practice, I can't do that because I cannot help you. And yeah, that was a bold move, but definitely a professional, you know, she knew what she was dealing with. She figured out that he was a narcissist. And you know, didn't want any more, 

Rich Bennett 27:32
wow, 

Mia Hanks 27:32
didn't see any benefit in moving forward. So, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 27:36
wow, wow. 

Mia Hanks 27:38
Yeah, that's what I see. 

Rich Bennett 27:41
All right, so you you took online quizzes, a researched toxic relationships before, before fully understanding what you're dealing with. 

Mia Hanks 27:49
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 27:51
If you don't mind, can you share some of the resources or support systems that helped you in your journey? 

Mia Hanks 27:58
Honestly, you know, I don't know. I just can remember, you know, googling is my relationship toxic. And things like that and taking all these quizzes on like these psychology 

sites. And every, every, you know, the what I would get back, the feedback I would get or after I finished the quiz, it always ranked in like very toxic and being out now kind of thing. When I realized I was dealing with narcissism and narcissistic spouse, I did start searching for podcasts and I did find a great, great podcast. I think it's called the covert narcissism podcast. It's Renee Swanson is the is the host. And she was also married to a narcissist. And she has a great podcast with a lot of good resources and just, you know, she's very knowledgeable in the subject. So I listened to her podcast every week. And that was enlightening for me because her story stacked up almost identical to mine, you know. 

Rich Bennett 29:03
Wow. 

Mia Hanks 29:04
Yeah, that was a huge help. 

Rich Bennett 29:07
Actually, I know there are support groups for 

people, you know, for people that have gone through divorce, is there, and do you know of any support groups? And so are you, were you able to find one when it comes to dealing with a narcissist? 

Mia Hanks 29:22
You know, I looked and I mean, there are websites and, 

Rich Bennett 29:26
right, 

Mia Hanks 29:26
search for support groups. I honestly couldn't find anything local. All I could find were like meetups that were online. You know what I 

Rich Bennett 29:36
write? 

Mia Hanks 29:36
point one, and I don't know. I just didn't, I didn't get much out of it. 

Rich Bennett 29:42
Mm-hmm, 

Mia Hanks 29:42
I was really looking for like an in person, you know, and I couldn't find anything. So I don't know if that's something that there's just not a lot of right now, or, you know, 

Rich Bennett 29:52
yeah, 

Mia Hanks 29:53
kind of a new, a new topic. But I didn't find a lot of good in-person support. Now, I did find a good therapist. 

Rich Bennett 30:02
Okay, good. 

Mia Hanks 30:03
There are therapists out there that are, you know, that will specialize in these types of relationships and narcissism. And that was, that was very helpful. 

Rich Bennett 30:13
Good. Good. So actually, what advice would you give to someone who suspects that they're in a relationship with a narcissist, but, but they're not sure? 

Mia Hanks 30:24
Yeah, I mean, I would do the research, you know, you got to do your homework. And, 

Rich Bennett 30:29
Yeah. 

Mia Hanks 30:29
and if it, you if that's in fact what you're dealing with, please know that it doesn't get better, you know, it's, if no matter what you do, you can never be enough for a narcissist. 

Rich Bennett 30:41
Mm-hmm. 

Mia Hanks 30:41
It's never enough. Nothing you do. You can move heaven and earth and it's never enough. Um, you know, and I would just encourage that person not to waste any more time. You know, there is a better life on the other side of abuse and just don't feel like you have to stay and live like that. 

Rich Bennett 30:59
And actually, in the book, you talked about how you once believed that if you were a better wife, things would be better. 

Mia Hanks 31:06
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 31:07
Yeah. How, how did you shift that mindset and stop blaming yourself? 

Mia Hanks 31:11
You know, I think after I started learning about narcissism and how these people operate, how they function, how their, how their minds work, um, it, it helped me to start realizing that I wasn't the problem. I thought I was the problem, you know, for all of these years. And so, but it takes time. It, it takes, um, you come out of these relationships and you, you have no confidence, you know, um, and it and it does take time to kind of get rid of all that false narrative that you've been fed for so long. Um, but really just becoming educated about the personality disorder, um, I think is, is helpful to, to make you realize, okay, it's, they have the problem, you know, and and they created a problem. Um, they create a problems for me, but I'm not the problem. 

Rich Bennett 31:59
And actually, and I'm sure you've heard this a lot. 

And I'm really, I really want to hear your answer for this because I believe other people in the same situation need to hear your answer. How do you respond to people who ask, why didn't you leave sooner? 

Mia Hanks 32:18
That is such a complicated question. And it's, it's a question that a lot of people want to know the answer to, you know, 

Rich Bennett 32:25
yeah, 

Mia Hanks 32:26
there are so many different factors. I think that the kids for me, I really could not envision sharing custody of my kids. That was a huge, Um, the finances, you know, um, he, he didn't make it that easy for me to, it's not like just having money to go to the grocery store. I mean, you've got to have enough money to find a new place to live. Um, I didn't have access to those types of funds. So there was a financial abuse. And then I think a really big piece of it was, um, there's an embarrassment factor. And a lot of people don't, don't talk about that. But it's, it takes, you know, it's embarrassing. And it takes a 

Rich Bennett 33:05
yeah. 

Mia Hanks 33:05
lot of nerve to have to admit that your marriage failed, that you had to walk out of this marriage and that your life isn't perfect. So I think just trying to say face and just not, you know, it was just really embarrassing thought to have to leave. Um, I think all of those things, the finances, the kids and just the, you know, my own pride, really what is the reason that I stayed in. And also I think society, you know, society tells us, uh, you, you don't break up your family, you know, you don't want your children to be children of divorce. And you stay and you make it work. And so I think I was trying to, you know, hold up to that and feel like I making the right decision. 

Rich Bennett 33:50
Yeah. And actually, how can friends of family best support someone in an abusive relationship? 

Mia Hanks 33:54
Yeah. It's really hard because you know, my, my parents were the only people that really knew what was going on behind closed doors. Um, and they did try to talk to me, you know, many times. years and every time I would defend my husband, it's okay, everything's great, he's just stressed, don't worry. I think for friends and family that see this and it is so difficult because realize that this victim is probably trauma bonded, they're living with Stockholm syndrome and they're probably not going to be receptive when you say you need to leave. The first thing they're going to do is defend their spouse. My advice to them is, let that person know that they can come to you should they decide to but really you can't force the issue, it really has to be something that they decide for themselves. 

Rich Bennett 34:50
And actually, what are some misconceptions about narcissistic abuse that you want to debunk? 

Mia Hanks 34:59
I think the biggest misconception is that, you know, it's this horrible and serious form of abuse which it is 

Rich Bennett 35:08
and it's 

Mia Hanks 35:09
obvious. It's not obvious to the victim. It generally is something that's a slow build and so the victim doesn't always know just how deep into abuse they are. So I think that's one myth is that, you know, oh, it should be so obvious you're being abused, but it's not. And then the other myth would be, you know, well, if it's, you know, if they're that horrible then just walk away, just leave. And it's just not that easy to leave. So, yeah, definitely not easy to leave and not easy to recognize when you're in the thick of it. 

Rich Bennett 35:42
Okay. So in your book, I have to ask you this. 

Mia Hanks 35:47
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 35:49
Do a stitch. 

Mia Hanks 35:50
Oh

. That's actually my best friend. Best 

Rich Bennett 35:55
Okay. 

Mia Hanks 35:55
loyalty. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 35:57
Yeah. And your name is Lila. I think 

Mia Hanks 35:59
it

yes. 

Rich Bennett 36:01
Okay. I saw that by way that what? 

Mia Hanks 36:04
Yeah. The first person that's ever asked that. Yeah. My best friend growing up and somebody that really helped me just heal from all of this. And I'll tell you, it's, it's, you underestimate how important friends are until you go through something like this. And 

wow, to have people to talk to, you know, that is for me that I think that was life, life saving really. Having people to talk to that know you, you know, especially somebody that's known you your whole life, that you can confide in. It is, it is life changing. And I think that really I, I've said before, I think that that just being able to talk to friends and family was really probably more beneficial to me than than therapy. 

Rich Bennett 36:58
Okay. I died to hear the answer for this one. 

Mia Hanks 37:02
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 37:03
Her book was released on February 14th. 

Mia Hanks 37:06
It 

Rich Bennett 37:06
was 2020? 

Mia Hanks 37:06
It was. Oh, 

Rich Bennett 37:07
Yeah. you didn't know that? 

Mia Hanks 37:10
No. Yeah. No. That was on purpose. I just thought. 

Rich Bennett 37:12
I was, I had a feeling. I want to ask you about that. 

Mia Hanks 37:16
Yeah. I thought how appropriate. Right. That's how I a Valentine's Day. I, I released a book. 

So. 

Rich Bennett 37:25
Yeah. That was brilliant. 

Mia Hanks 37:27
Yeah. Not many people have picked up on that. So that's, you know, 

Rich Bennett 37:33
I saw that at first. I'm like, Oh, my God, that is good. 

Because I was, my first thought was, I wonder she realizes this was released on Valentine's 

Mia Hanks 37:47
Day. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 37:48
Yeah. But apparently you, you did it 

Mia Hanks 37:49
purpose. 

Rich Bennett 37:49
on 

Mia Hanks 37:50
I did it on purpose. 

Rich Bennett 37:51
You are smart. I 

Mia Hanks 37:54
it. Yeah. I just, 

Rich Bennett 37:55
love 

Mia Hanks 37:55
I just throw a little humor in there. 

Rich Bennett 37:57
It can't 

Mia Hanks 37:59
be all serious, right. So 

Rich Bennett 38:00
Right. 

Mia Hanks 38:01
that was. So 

Rich Bennett 38:04
and yourself published, right? 

Mia Hanks 38:05
I am. Yes. All 

Rich Bennett 38:07
right. So with the publishing part and even the marketing, what's been the biggest challenge so far? 

Mia Hanks 38:14
Definitely the marketing. Um, you know, I, I published under a pen name. Yeah. And I, um, I go on a lot of podcasts, but I don't go on camera. And so that's, it's been hard. Uh, first security reasons, you know, my ex husband's not know this book exists. Uh, nordic, you know, I do podcasts. 

Rich Bennett 38:34
So Oh, 

Mia Hanks 38:34
it's hard to market something when you can't be out there marketing it. Um, that has been a challenge. Yeah. So trying to give a book out to people that that might need to read it, but having to be kind of sneaky and how I do it. Um, and there are a lot of marketing tactics I can't use, you know, so yeah. 

Rich Bennett 38:56
Yeah. I mean, Wow. That I didn't even think about that because. You have a website but I'm thinking of remember I mentioned like the support groups for people going through a divorce. 

Mia Hanks 39:11
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:13
Okay, never mind you do I'm looking at your website now so they can't get in touch with you. 

Mia Hanks 39:18
Yes, 

Rich Bennett 39:18
yes. Because I think any support groups I think You should have your book to give to other people in the group. Or 

Mia Hanks 39:28
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:28
you know what better yet better yet. Okay, so those of you listening. 

If you know of any 

groups sincerely divorced 

Beverly and Hillary or Bethany Hillary that hopefully you're listening to this. This may be good for you guys. Get some copies of this book for everybody that's in your group. And let's market this because yeah, that's I didn't even think about that. That's um, 

wow. That's got to be a real big challenge. 

Mia Hanks 40:03
Yeah, it is. It really is. So I you know thought about giving it a little time and then you know giving it maybe a year or a four and then 

Rich Bennett 40:14
you 

Mia Hanks 40:15
know not being quite so hidden. So I'm just kind of exploring opportunities and possibilities but still keeping myself safe and 

Rich Bennett 40:25
yeah. 

Mia Hanks 40:25
Yeah, so it is, yeah, it's crazy. But you know, even so I think it's, I you know, I've sold some copies and gotten some good reviews. So it is getting out there a little bit. But I do wish I could push it more and but my hands are kind of tied on really how much I can do. 

Rich Bennett 40:46
Well, I will, I will make sure that I push it not just well, of course, the podcast you already are, but I'll push it on my other website as well. I'll feature it as book of the week at least. 

Mia Hanks 40:56
Well, thank you. 

Rich Bennett 40:58
Yeah, I just I think it's important that people read this because of course they're going to learn from it. 

Mia Hanks 41:03
Yeah, I that's my hope, you know, that it will really resonate with somebody and just give them hope and realize that they can find a better life. 

Rich Bennett 41:13
Yeah, so before I get to my last question, because I didn't tell anybody this, but how can people get in touch if you in order to book? 

Mia Hanks 41:25
Um, so my books are available everywhere online that books are sold. Amazon. Barnes and Noble Target. Walmart. And also I have a website mejhanks.com and there's a link on that website that will push you to Amazon where you can order 

Rich Bennett 41:41
it. And on your website, are you going to start doing the blog again? 

Mia Hanks 41:46
You know, when I started I intended to do at least once a month and then somehow that just fell apart. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 41:55
because you've been going on all these podcasts. That's 

Mia Hanks 41:57
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 41:57
why I 

Mia Hanks 41:58
maybe so. Yeah, I do want to I do want to make the blog a more regular thing. that's that's my plan and what that'll happen. 

Rich Bennett 42:08
So before I get to my last question, is there anything you would like to add? 

Mia Hanks 42:13
Um, you know, just that if you if you think that you're in one of these relationships, you know, with a narcissist, please, you know, get out there and learn, educate yourself, um, read my book. And, um, you know, I just hate to think that people are staying in these relationships because they don't realize what they're in. 

Rich Bennett 42:33
Yeah. So those of you listening, you know what I'm going to say. So I'm just going to go ahead and say it anyways. When you purchase Bride made a memoir by Mia J Hanks and you read it, make sure you leave a full review, whether it be on Goodreads, Amazon, wherever you purchase books. Um, and then purchase it for somebody else that you think could get a lot from this. Or buy a bunch of them for a group, like a support group or something, because I think that that would help a lot 

Mia Hanks 43:07
too. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:08
So actually, I lied two questions. Are you going to continue writing any plans on writing another book? 

Mia Hanks 43:15
I'm not sure. Um, I was approached by, um, maybe working on an anthology. Where, you know, we get other other victims to to share their stories and kind of have a anthology 

Rich Bennett 43:28
Ooh. 

Mia Hanks 43:28
book, yeah. So possibly, um, yeah. I don't really have any, any set plans right now. I'm just like, say kind of taking it one day at a time and just enjoying this freedom. 

Rich Bennett 43:41
So what, well, after you enjoy this freedom, you know, you are free. So you're, yeah. Freedom is the rest of your life 

Mia Hanks 43:50
now. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:52
What is the next big thing for Mia? 

Mia Hanks 43:56
I get asked this a lot and I actually don't have an answer. I don't know. 

Rich Bennett 44:02
she's 

Mia Hanks 44:02
Um, 

Rich Bennett 44:02
every day, doesn't 

Mia Hanks 44:03
it? It really does. I, I just, I'm kind of seeing where this is going. You know, I, I really would like to continue 

spreading awareness about narcissism. I feel like you know I feel like it's helping people and it's therapeutic for me really to feel like that I can use my bad experiences to help help somebody else. So yeah I mean I'd like to continue in this field but I don't have any anything huge on the horizon just kind of see what see what happens. 

Rich Bennett 44:35
Well you're you're already helping people and that's a big plus. I have a funny feeling that 

in the years to come when you're able to you know to basically to show yourself and be yourself 

you're you're just you're gonna be exploding because you're gonna be helping so many people 

in ways that you probably never even imagined and I believe you already 

Mia Hanks 45:07
are. I hope so I really do um yeah I think there's a lot of people out there that that need to hear this information so 

Rich Bennett 45:14
yeah 

Mia Hanks 45:14
um I want to help get it out there. 

Rich Bennett 45:17
Well anything I can do to help please let me know. 

Mia Hanks 45:21
Thank you so much. 

Rich Bennett 45:22
Make sure I do. Oh my pleasure. Mia thanks so much. 

Mia Hanks 45:25
Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 45:28
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did if you'd like to hear more conversations like this be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode and if you have a moment I'd love it if you could leave a review it helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with rich Bennett.com for updates giveaways and more until next time take care be kind and keep the conversations going.