The Dyslexia Experience: Insights from Wendy, Ashley, and Kayla

Rich Bennett 0:00
Thank you for joining the conversation. So today I am joined by three lovely ladies, of course, the one you all know. She's been my regular co-host. Sure. God news. How do you even know how many episodes you've done so far when we do not? 

Wendy Beck 0:15
We should figure that out. 

Rich Bennett 0:18
That can be kind of scary. 

Wendy Beck 0:19
I mean, yeah. Well. 

Rich Bennett 0:21
I mean, that's not scary enough. Never mind that I don't. Never mind. And we have Ashley Easter. Ashley has been on. This is her third time. The last time she was on, we did the virtual roundtable podcast on mental health, which actually went very well, which we're going to have to do another one. And this other young lady I just had on recently, Kayla Dykeman, who is a children's author who has written two children's books, which are awesome. And I just love everything behind it about, you know, the meaning of it, which I, I still have to was it color myself in the one color my brain or was it color myself? 

Kayla Deickman 1:05
Both books have each activity in it. 

Rich Bennett 1:09
Yeah, I got to do both of them. I haven't done that. I just. I'll wait till afterwards and shave the beard. Then I'll do it. Just a lot of stuff. So the reason I have these three ladies on is we're going to talk about something very important. Wendy and Ashley basically blew me away when they told me they 

both have dyslexia. And my first thought was, and keep in mind, my ignorant self didn't realize I didn't know that much about dyslexia. But my first thought was, wait a minute, they've written books. They started a nonprofit. Both of you started nonprofits, and you're just everywhere. Doing stuff is like, How can that be? But this is why we want to do this, because I want to talk about coping with dyslexia and how you guys have been able to I don't know if you can say overcome it or basically just, I guess, well, cope with it and do what you do, you know. So, first of all, how are you all doing? 

Ashley Easter 2:13
You're doing good. I'm really glad we get to talk about this subject. 

Rich Bennett 2:18
Oh, so am I. So and actually, if we can, let's just get a little background from each of you, and we'll start with the newest one. First, Kayla. 

Kayla Deickman 2:27
I'm a children's book author, and I've been dyslexic my entire life. So much fun there. 

Rich Bennett 2:37
So how when were you you were diagnosed in school as being dyslexic. 

Kayla Deickman 2:43
So back in school, I had ADHD, which is what took over most of the diagnosis in my life, because once you're diagnosed with that, you're pretty much on. It's only that when I write other things as well. I had an unspecified learning disorder in school, and then later I put two and two together and dyslexic. I was diagnosed as adults. 

Well, I guess a young adult, I was like 17, right? But I was told, you know, that's probably what it is. And that and dyscalculia, I think, is what it's called, where you mix up numbers. 

Rich Bennett 3:31
Which makes up numbers. Okay. And, Ashley, for those of you that are for those of you that don't know, actually, you're about to find out. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself and how you know, when it was you were diagnosed. 

Ashley Easter 3:47
Yeah. So I'm Ashley Easter. I kind of do. Well, I do a lot of different things. I write. I got a nonprofit for abuse survivors called Courage 365. And then I also do coaching to help people really tap into their intuition. I'm also a cult survivor. And so as far as the dyslexia journey, as far as I know, it's something that has been in my family history. I don't know how far back it goes that I know one of my grandparents had dyslexia, had a very difficult time in school, and then me and several of my siblings have dyslexia because I grew up in a cult like environment and I was homeschooled. I didn't have like the traditional kinds of treatment that could have maybe been useful, but it was certainly something that showed up in my schoolwork and in my life, particularly when I was younger. And it's still very prevalent in my life today. But I found ways to cope with it and I would say even embrace the uniqueness because there's actually a lot of beautiful gifts. I actually like being dyslexic because the multiple things that come with it. But there are some challenges that have had to be overcome. 

Rich Bennett 5:11
And I think you forgot to add something else that you do. Or aren't you a talker now? Oh yes. 

Ashley Easter 5:18
I had a recent Ted X talk that'll be coming out soon. The video is not out yet, but yeah, that was that was a lot of fun. 

Rich Bennett 5:30
I was not supposed to say that yet. 

Ashley Easter 5:32
You can say it now, but yeah, the video hasn't been published yet, so I can't direct anybody there yet. But okay, you blow it so 

hard. 

Rich Bennett 5:42
And Wendy, but I if there is anybody out there that doesn't know who you are. 

Wendy Beck 5:49
Yeah. I'm Wendy back and I am a co-host with Rich for number of episodes for conversations with Rich Bennett. And then I also am a co-host on Rage Talk, which is a segment that we do for Rage Against Addiction, my non-profit organization, and I am of, I guess, a lifelong dyslexia person. And when I say that I'm a lot older than these ladies and believe it or not, and when I. 

Rich Bennett 6:22
Say me. 

Wendy Beck 6:22
And I don't think I'm older than you, you're not really not far off, but it was a very different world when I was growing up. So, I mean, I had young parents who weren't really very well versed in, you know, higher education. And so they didn't realize that the struggles that I was having was a result of this. And I am self-diagnosed and I was always had trouble. And my thing my earliest memory was 

kindergarten, actually. And my I remember my mother sitting there with me and I was writing my name on the paper and I kept going to the opposite side of the page instead of starting, you know, left to right. I was went to the right to left, and I kept writing my name and she said, That's not right. And I was looking at it and I could not determine what she was talking about because it looked like it was supposed to look. So I always had a hard time with reading. And so my it wasn't that I couldn't comprehend it, I just couldn't sound out the words. So because of this, I was put in more of a remedial English class and no one really paid too much attention to my education because that was just the way it was. I was considered a slow learner when I had my first daughter, and I did, you know, I did get through school and I had my first daughter when she was three. I taught her how to read and I really taught myself how to read through that process. Oh, yeah. So that was when I kind of realized, you know, I didn't have the ability to sound out words and it didn't matter. I learned a lot of sight words, which, you know, obviously people do. But if it came to a word that I was not familiar with, even to this day, I cannot sound it out. So I had started my journey in my career as going to be a medical transcriptionist. But that was so silly because I couldn't spell and I couldn't talk. I couldn't I had I didn't have that ability. So I switched over and I was a paralegal by trade for 23 years before I moved over to do my nonprofit full time. But what I had realized, you know, I had to I had to like I had to fake it a lot of times. Like, I, I can't if someone's name if I'm reading someone's name that I'm not familiar with, of course I know. SMITH But if it had some kind of, you know, you know, name that I'm not familiar with, I can't. So medical transcription was completely out. And so yeah, so it was, it's been, it's been challenging and I think that that kind of brings us to the, the coping piece of it. I had to learn that I just learned differently and I have to kind of focus on my weaknesses. And then in that I find my strengths, which I feel like are the creative side of life more than the reading and writing side, which I do love to do that, but it's a little bit more challenging for me. 

Rich Bennett 9:28
So when you mentioned the writing and everything, and with all three of you being writing or being authors, how was it that your with dyslexia, was there like certain techniques that you guys used to be able to write? I mean, how did each of you do that? 

Ashley Easter 9:50
To me, I don't see writing probably the same way everybody else most people do. To me, writing is less about putting the words on the page and more about your mind creating a story or being able to retell a creative story. And so for some people they might need others to narrate that down. For me, I'm able to jot it down on the page knowing that it's not going to be spelled correctly. But I'm able to carry thoughts and and 

ideas and put those on a page, and then I leave it for somebody else to fix the grammar and the spelling. Because to me, people do that. The creative part is the story, the parts that you come up in your mind or the retelling of an experience you had, the actual putting it down is like the least of my concerns. I can hire someone to do that. 

Wendy Beck 10:51
I with that statement, I feel like, you know, academically with dyslexia, for me personally, like I felt less than a student because I didn't have some of those skills, you know, for a number of reasons. My reading comprehension, my reading was probably slower because it was more difficult. You know, every class you have to spell, you have to write, you have to do all of these things. So when you kind of like remove yourself, you know, years later for me, and then you decide that you have a story to tell and you put it on paper, you don't really focus on that part. So it might look like a mess. But, you know, the end result is, you know, what we intended. With a little help from some professionals. 

Kayla Deickman 11:35
And so because I write books for kids rather than adults, 

I, I agree. I mean, this is the same thing. I'm telling stories and I guess these two books aren't really stories, but it is what it is. I, my best friend, added to my stuff. She's an English major and I've always kind of left it to her because she knows that I can't do it by myself. So she'll be like, okay, here's this along the way, just to kind of help, but it's putting it down. That's the fun part. And so I don't have to worry about the spell checking of it because I have her. I believe it as being fun. 

Rich Bennett 12:22
So yeah, she came clean when you were younger. Well, you're the youngest one here, I believe. 

But did you always want to be an author, a children's author, or did you have doubts because of the dyslexia? 

Kayla Deickman 12:37
So I never saw myself writing books. 

I always failed the spelling tests in school. The biggest issues with my dyslexia, the spelling I read very, very well and I've never had any problems with them. It's always been the writing aspect for me. So the idea of writing a book was not one I ever wanted to do. And I just this past year I found myself doing it because I took a hard look on my life and I realized that there are not many resources out there for kids who may need them. And as a family of neurodivergent individuals, I realized my kids need these resources as much as other children, so why not spread that? And so 

I wrote the first book, and lucky for me, because they are for kids. Smaller words are great. I love it. I have a funny little thing. So my book offerings are beautiful. That's been out for a while, is about to get a stuffed animal. And I thought it was funny because my first thought is what would you name a frame? His name's Brian. Except when you're dyslexic and have to write that down over and over and over again. The word Brian and Brian looks so similar that he on my website and I have a phone and six he his priorities list that was brain brain because I thought I was spelling Brian and I can't catch it all the time so I'm just going to run his tag by my editor before I put that on the stuffed animal just so that he's not permanently. Brian. Brian. 

Ashley Easter 14:34
I love that. And also just how you have people in your life, friends, editors to do that. I know for me, my husband, he did some proofreading at first and then my friend's husband shout out to Nate Horton. He proofread a lot of my blog posts, and then I downloaded a software called Grammarly, which is really helpful. And now I have a virtual assistant that put reads almost everything that I put out, and it's allowed me to just be create as because, you know, I'm not going to say anybody can write because obviously we can't, but a lot of people can write and copy things down and fix things grammatically. But not everybody has the type of creativity that we have. And I think people with dyslexia are forced to think and see the world differently. And so we add some valuable insights that maybe other people haven't considered. And so I see that is where the real value is, is having a different perspective that can be useful to the world. And then somebody else who maybe enjoys and finds it relaxing to put the commas in the right place and make sure letters and words are spelled right, they they can do that and feel fulfilled there. But yeah, I one of the things that I'm frustrated with, I'm wondering if the other dyslexic here feel the same way. They're such a grammar police thing online. 

Wendy Beck 16:17
Particularly with. 

Rich Bennett 16:18
Or without. 

Ashley Easter 16:18
The edit button and people will pick out you for your grammar or misspelling a word and they'll almost detract from your argument if you're like in some sort of a debate. And I think it just shows how little creativity some people have that they can't look at what I'm. 

Kayla Deickman 16:40
Writing. 

Ashley Easter 16:41
And maybe I add in an extra vowel, but like everybody knows what I'm saying and couldn't take the concept seriously. Instead, they try to pick out things that aren't 

perfect. And I just think that that's such a thing that needs to be changed. I'm wondering what the other dyslexics think about. 

Wendy Beck 17:02
I agree. And I and I have had people, you know, say that, you know, they're grammar snobs and, you know, they frown upon, you know, things being, you know, incorrect. And and, you know, when I write some stuff for the organization and I do, you know, mini blogging on some of our Facebook and Instagram stuff. And a lot of times, you know, because I don't have anyone that really like goes over a lot of it. Like if it's a if it's something that the organization is sending out, like a like a sponsor letter or something like that, of course, like my person that I have hired, she does all of that. But the things that I do and then like sometimes I will go back and I will go, Oh, you know, and I'll find my own, you know, errors. And I'm able to to check them, but I don't see them and I don't that to me, that's not a moral failing just because I you know, but the grammar police out there. Oh they make you are definitely less than because of it and it's hard because it kind of it kind of makes you feel like you're not smart enough a lot of times. 

Ashley Easter 18:12
And I think it's ablest. Like people don't talk about that so much. They pride themselves in like fixing other people's grammar and hey, I am not against somebody saying, Hey, I really honestly don't know what she meant by that. You know, could right say that again. But people who are just picking on you for not putting words in the right order or something where I can understand it, I think it's just very ablest and something that we haven't really dealt with as a society. 

Kayla Deickman 18:43
I fully agree with that. I actually don't get a lot of grammar correctness on my business pages, which to me I feel like I should. But I give them a lot of my personal pages and I think sometimes that hurts a bit more just because the people who are on my personal pages for the most part know that I'm dyslexic and I struggle with this, and I still will find people who are commenting about how I'm spelling words incorrect or the grammar is not perfect and and I'm just like, I'm doing the best that it can like. Right? And I can't I don't have a built in spell check like some people want. 

Rich Bennett 19:33
And 

the other thing is to I mean, even autocorrect gets it wrong at times. 

Kayla Deickman 19:41
It's really yeah. 

Ashley Easter 19:42
100%. 

Kayla Deickman 19:42
Correct. Doesn't know what you're 

like. 

Wendy Beck 19:49
Then they're. 

Rich Bennett 19:50
Like. 

Kayla Deickman 19:51
What are you even trying to say? 

Wendy Beck 19:52
I'm like, I don't know about you guys, but there's been words in my life. Like, I remember because like I said, I was a paralegal and there were words that I needed to use over and over again. And I'm just going to I think I might've mentioned this before, but like the word negotiate, like I cannot I used to have it on a Post-it in my desk. So every time I had to write the word negotiate because my brain would not get it right, I had to cheat. And I was just like, I mean, I'm cheating for myself because I would spell it so incredibly wrong that Spellcheck would not even know what I was trying to say. So like, I think like those kinds of challenges people don't understand when you do have dyslexia or whatever form of it it is, you know, you're not just being lazy, you're not being stupid. You It's literally a challenge for you to do what someone else might take for granted in terms of like spelling or punctuation and and that type of stuff. So I feel like there's, you know, there are some haters out there for sure. 

Ashley Easter 20:53
Yeah. Dude, if you have like little chance that you do in your mind for certain, like spellings of words like Mississippi, you know, that's like a common one. And my SSI, SSI, PTA, you know, I have that for other spelling things. 

Kayla Deickman 21:09
I forget what? What's that? I do it for chocolate. 

Rich Bennett 21:14
Oh. 

Ashley Easter 21:15
What's your chance? 

Kayla Deickman 21:17
It sounds kind of dumb, but my brother grew up watching Dora the Explorer. Yeah, So there's an episode where they're, like, mixing chocolate and they're like, choco, like taffy. And I was like, Oh. 

Ashley Easter 21:30
Yeah, those. 

Kayla Deickman 21:32
Words individually. 

And it actually took until my friend's last year I was 27 and I was 26 before I could spell it without thinking too hard about it, right? So even with the chart, I'm just like, it's a tossup. 

Ashley Easter 21:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or words that you've read in a book and you contextually know what they mean. 

Kayla Deickman 21:59
Like, you know. 

Ashley Easter 22:00
That this word is commonly used in this context. You understand the meaning, but you've never known that when somebody speaks it out loud, it's the same word that she's been reading. And so you say like what you phonetically think it is. And then people like what? And I'm like, Yeah, you know, and like, they're they actually say it the correct way out loud. And you think they're talking about a different word than what you read. Has anybody else had that? 

Kayla Deickman 22:28
I've dealt with that quite a bit, especially because I love reading 

and I read things that have like some type of like foreign language words in them occasionally. And I'm just like, okay, in context, I know what you're saying. And then, you know, using it like you said, and I'm just like, no idea. And I think there's a little bit more forgiveness and sometimes it is in a different language. However. Right. You don't realize that. It's also like English written language as well when they're I have an issue with like larger words, right, that are like three syllables. 

Wendy Beck 23:07
And that's 

I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but do you how are you with foreign languages? Because when I thought I was going to take French, like in the eighth grade. Oh, my gosh, it was just such an epic failure. Like, I, I sat there just completely, like, unable to to do that at all. Now, like, I can hear like, you know, I know some Spanish words and I could probably learn it if someone was with me, like speaking it orally so that I could learn it. But having any kind of foreign language lessons on paper was absolutely impossible for me. 

Kayla Deickman 23:45
I doubt I ever heard of Spanish and I loved it, but I could never read it. 

Wendy Beck 23:53
Okay, I was just curious about that. So then again, this goes back to me being in eighth grade, not knowing this, and here I am wanting to learn how to speak French and wanting to be a participant in this class, and I just wasn't capable of doing it. So of course, again, you feel like a failure. You feel like you're not smart enough. And, you know, that's kind of stuff that like carries you through your high school career and you just don't even know why at that time. Like, it was not something that when I graduated from high school and before that people were recognizing like, it might be different, like Kayla with you getting diagnosed in school. But for me, it wasn't a thing. It was not a thing. 

Ashley Easter 24:36
Yeah, Yeah. Now that makes sense. What you're saying. The exception to that for me has been sign language. Now, I'm not fluent in my language at all, but it's amazing if somebody can't hear me and I took like, one year of sign language, I think like way back, if somebody can't hear me, I don't even think about it. Like if they're across the room, I start to like, do something like do a sign language sign with my hands. Like, literally, I'm terrible at it, but it just comes back to me because it was like a hand thing versus like sounds and words. And also when I went to Puerto Rico and they predominantly speak Spanish, those are words that I started to pick up on as like knowing what they meant. But sitting down in the Spanish class and learning like different tenses of words and that kind of stuff, like, No, that's not going to happen for me. 

Kayla Deickman 25:33
So I think that's where I struggled in the three years of Spanish that I took was learning, I guess the I guess it would be grammar behind it. I'm speaking. It was fine. I was able to pick that up a lot faster and I was okay for the most part reading it. But then when you started adding, like all of the tenses, all of the like there's, you know, there's multiple ways in Spanish. You can say the same word, but if it's a feminine or a masculine word, there's going to be a different beginning or a different end. And and it's all in the context that it's being used for. So I, I struggle with that, especially when it was visually presented to me, like on test, I could do the oral kind of exam tests kind of thing. I would couldn't do any of the written stuff if I had to write it myself. I could read it, couldn't write. 

Rich Bennett 26:37
It. 

Ashley Easter 26:38
Yeah. And I, I don't know if you all found this too, but for me, that was the same way with music. Like I. I took piano lessons for about ten years, and I practice almost every day like I was diligent at practicing. I can't play the piano, but I think if I had instead, then instead of been taught to try to read the notes, if I'd learned by ear, then I think I could have done it. Because with singing, I learned. I taught myself how to sing harmony. And I did that just by tuning in and listening with my ear instead of understanding like the music theory behind it. And so I think a lot of times dyslexics are really good at like comprehension of verbal things or sounds and kind of putting those together. It's more so like if those sounds or concepts are put on paper that it can get confusing. 

Rich Bennett 27:38
Wait a minute, Ashley, you sing? 

Ashley Easter 27:41
Well, I used to back in the day. 

Rich Bennett 27:43
Oh, man, I was going to put you on the spot to now. 

But one of the things actually Wendy mentioned it earlier was the Post-it notes. Is there anything that, you know, besides Post-it notes that you guys use to help you with, like certain words or anything 

or even the singing of it? Like, I love the kit. Would you say that that catchphrases the chants, I love that you said. 

Ashley Easter 28:16
Not a chance. Not so much was spelled sing, but lists are very difficult for me to remember the order of a list. 

Rich Bennett 28:25
O. 

Ashley Easter 28:25
And so like if I am trying to do a recipe like I need that written down, like making rice for years, that was so hard for me. Rice is like one of the easiest things to make, but you have to follow certain steps and if they're written down, I could be like, okay, I did this one on this one, but to keep that list in my mind. And so I'm often fanatic about using my calendar and using it like a to do list and a checklist so I can remember what order I need to do. Certain tasks, But that even goes into like 

everyday things. I don't have this on my calendar. Like if I don't wash my body in the shower in the same order, I'll forget a limb. Or every time I get into the car I have to think, okay, sit. Seatbelt. Peace and press the gas. Like I have to think through each of those processes. It's not it doesn't ever become automatic for me. So constantly lists going on my mind. And if I can write them down on a sticky note or on my phone. So that. 

Wendy Beck 29:38
Reflects. Yeah. Or do you think that's more of like, I don't want to say ADHD or obsessive compulsive or some kind of other disorder because I mean, I know it's different. Not everyone has the same symptoms because I don't I don't have that in my life. Like mine is very much reading and writing and spelling orient. And so, like, I'm just curious if you think that I might fall into a different category. 

Ashley Easter 30:07
You know, it's possible I don't have ADHD or obsessive compulsive disorder, but I know other people who've had dyslexia with those characteristics. 

Kayla Deickman 30:20
So that. 

Ashley Easter 30:22
Might be something I'm. 

Wendy Beck 30:23
Curious. I don't know. 

Kayla Deickman 30:25
So I'm I've got dyslexia. I also have ADHD. I'm also autistic. So the combination I completely can relate to that too, because my husband will write this down for me because often forget to write down because poor executive function. But I also am extremely rigid when it comes to steps, which is why it's so hard for me when it comes to working. I used to work at 

a like a medtech at a nursing home and there are apps and procedures and I'm so rigid, like as I call it, if it's steps one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, I will follow them down to a tee. But then if you throw a curve ball, it was really hard for me. So the reason I left that job was they were starting to throw curveballs that I didn't agree with legally didn't agree with. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to be able to follow those steps because it's not what I was trained to do. 

Whereas I'm like, now that I'm a stay at home parent, I follow things like a list, like regularly. I remember my kids go to school at 930, they have to be in the building. So we get there nine to the time to walk in. But prior to that, this is what we're doing. All right, this, this, this. And I think that's more of an autistic trait for myself rather than dyslexia. 

However, it definitely overlap for me on an everyday. 

Wendy Beck 32:08
I have a daughter and she has the ADHD and I do know a lot of people that do that really rely on routine, really routine, like they can't function without their routine. So they had to learn to train themselves that in order for me to be successful, I have to follow this routine. And if I do not, I'm going to get so distracted that I'm not going to go from A to B to C today and so on. So I mean, I think that what we're realizing is, is, you know, dyslexia is one thing, but there's a combination of things that that people have and there's no one size fits all. And because there's no high school, it's really hard to diagnose. And, you know, 

being a parent and as you know, Kayla, like, you know, figuring out how to best help your child is one of the biggest challenges that we're going to have as a parent. My parents didn't realize how to help me until I was older, and then I kind of figured it out on my own. And it was dyslexia, which I think is is, you know, in terms of being like hard. It's not as hard as ADHD in a way, or it's not as hard as having other things. So I was able to, you know, I wasn't very scholarly. I you know, I wasn't, you know, a good student. And it didn't mean that I didn't want to learn. It didn't mean that I wasn't trying to learn. It's just that nobody knew how to teach me at that time. 

Kayla Deickman 33:39
And I can I can agree with that. And I see the point I remember distinctly growing up. I come from a family of educators and I love my family. But I've also learned through the years that just because it's not a one size fits all when it comes to mental disabilities or things like dyslexia or maybe an autistic, I learned so differently, and I distinctly remember sitting on my grandparents, like sitting at my grandparents kitchen table, dining table and doing homework. And I remember how much of a stroke I would sometimes have their powers and they wouldn't understand why I would be in tears because I had to do this homework and at the time again, they were doing what they thought was best for me academically. And I'm a firm believer and always have been, you. You do better as you know better. So at the time, that's what they knew what was best. And now that I'm an adult, I know better. I do not put 

crazy. Like if my kids are truly not understanding the material after I sit down and explain it to them, like I'm not going to force them to continue doing it because I'll have to write a note to the teacher explaining, Hey, can we elaborate on this? So with the dyslexia, I struggled with math for a while. Yeah, it wasn't because I didn't understand the math. I'm actually really good at math and I love doing math. But because of that, like dyslexia and the dyscalculia, I could not keep scoring. So things like that 

Pythagorean 

theorem, I totally punch that where like you're following this whole process. I know the process and on paper I can write the process down. But if I'm reading it, I don't understand it at all. Yeah, and that makes fun. And I just struggled so badly that I was OCD student my entire life in elementary school, up through high school. I'm glad it passed 

because it was it was hard. So, I mean, I, I just I remember that that was like a huge like point for me where people around me did not understand why I couldn't do this, do the thing, do the math homework, do the report on my own. And I'm talking like 17 years old I couldn't write a paper on. I needed a lot of help and a lot of encouragement to do it because it was just such a hard process from beginning to end. And even nowadays, my grandparents can tell you they wouldn't see like they wouldn't understand why it was so hard for me back then, but it was traumatic for both of us. Yeah, I didn't that it. 

Wendy Beck 36:53
I think we need to kind of throw out there into the universe. You know what? What do we need to tell parents that have children that are struggling in these ways? And it's not being recognized? How do you how do you spot it? How do you help it? How do you, you know, get the school involved? And I know more resources now than when I went to school, but even having a child with ADHD, it still took a really long time for them to acknowledge that we were actually having a problem. And so, yeah. 

Kayla Deickman 37:29
So I'm actually going through that now with my kids. We just had a meeting Monday 

where she they wanted to dismiss her IEP, and I was I brought up the point like, I want to I want to make sure this is all re-evaluated. It takes forever for school to do evaluations. I'm pretty sure in Hartford County, it's like 60 days from the time that you say you want the re evaluation, not that they have to do it. And, um, yeah, she so I guess as a parent, my first advice for a parent who sees that their child struggling is take a take, take a deep breath, walk away and then come back to the situation and see if my child's struggling because I don't know. The material is there. 

Wendy Beck 38:18
Right. Right. 

Ashley Easter 38:19
And the other thing I would mention kind of on that topic is 

really addressing to your child like, this is not an intelligence issue. This has nothing to do with your ability to comprehend things. This does not mean you're dumb or stupid. It just means that the way your brain processes things is different from the majority. And because there's a majority way that brains work, that's what the systems have been created to cater towards. So there's nothing with you. It's simply a different type of brain. And for me 

it could be very stressful to have to take a test. That was a written test, but if somebody would read me the questions and I could verbally give the answers and have the answers, 

but having to make sure that I read the question correctly, because if you misread the question and you think it's saying one, you could technically be giving the correct answer to the question you thought was there. But that's not the question that's there. So it's. 

Wendy Beck 39:30
Mark, that's a really good reframe right there. 

Ashley Easter 39:34
No, because like the like say the word not like, is it if the question is 

how can you not or how can you avoid 

drowning or, you know, I don't know, something like that. And maybe the answer is learning to swim. But if you took out the word a void because your brain blocks it out and it look like how can you drown, it would be like by inhaling water. And, you know, you you got the answer right, the question wrong. And so if it can be done verbally. And then the other thing is, if it has to be done in a written format, like for my driver's test, you know, there's the the driving part, but then there's the the part where it's written. And I took a long time to do that test. I got 100% on it, but I took probably three times longer than the other people because it took me so much time to make sure I was getting that question right. So I get. 

Kayla Deickman 40:38
The. 

Ashley Easter 40:38
Answer, even though I knew what the answers were. And so a lot of times schools focus on giving people time crunches to finish tests and and that is not useful when you need more time to make sure it's wrong. The question that's being asked and then writing it down in a way that people can comprehend. Again, it has nothing to do with intelligence. But if you're in a situation where they're like putting a sense of urgency on you, then that's going to make things even worse because that brain is in fight or flight or freeze, and that's going to make it harder to deal with the dyslexia. So I would say letting students know that, like the system is created for other people, there's nothing wrong with you. We just need to find a system that works for you. The system should serve the student, the individual, not the individual serving the system. But that's not how it's set up. 

Kayla Deickman 41:33
So I know I mentioned this on the last podcast we did. It's all about the way it's set up. Is they judge you no matter what animal you are for climbing the tree, you and Allison have to climb the same tree as the goldfish. And I. I love the point that you made about reading things aloud. So that's one of my biggest things for me. If I were writing someone's IEP for all the accommodations that I would be like, Hey, give them extra time on the test. And that's something most people who have I use. I strongly, strongly, strongly suggest you have written it to them is extra time on test. I personally do not believe in tests. I understand in a school day we only have so much time. But because of that fight or flight freeze time test measure, I hated it. Even the Scantron ones when you're feeling it because then you feel like your race, your your racing, because the kids see people finishing their tests and then they're thinking, well, why am I Why am I only halfway done when people are already finished? Yeah. And it's, it's just just tears down the confidence. Kids, you don't deserve to have to turn down because it's not as fast as their peers or that again, like, like you said, I would read questions all the time. I hate trick questions with a burning passion because it is worded 50 times in like the same test in ten different ways. I'm like, Now I don't know the answer because I thought I knew the answer, but now I'm not sure if I knew the answer. And that's not fair in my opinion, for any kid, let alone the small children in the elementary school setting. I'm all for proper test taking skills and learning them. I'm not for taking down the confidence of kids because we want to keep things accomplished. Because 

if you look at the grand scheme of school systems, they're in competition for funding. They're in competition for statistical scores. 

And that's I guess the only way they can determine those things. However you would think. I mean, we see these test scores. Well, how many of these are great test takers and how many of these our kids suck at taking test? I stuck to taking tests. I always used to, but I stopped to take some tests. 

Now. 

Ashley Easter 44:29
The other thing is I think a lot of our values in Western society are very white centric, very 

honestly, white supremacist in systems that we don't even realize. And so 

European ideology, which of course is predominant in the US as well, is very much about perfection. It's very much about 

like intellectualizing knowledge, and it's very much about being able to present something that is impressive because there are these rules and guidelines. Now, not each individual of those things are always bad. You know, you probably need to reach some level of perfection when you're doing brain surgery, you know, But 

focus on perfectionism is very unhealthy and other cultures, there are other values that are raised up as being higher and more appreciated. So if you think about storytelling, oral history being passed down has been highly accurate through the years. In a lot of other non-Western countries, they've skillfully and accurately carried down wisdom without writing the same way that we do, and not saying that other cultures didn't have access to writing. But there was a emphasis more on the storytelling, the communication, the feeling, things in the body, the creativity and Western society when colonisation happens, just comes over there and tries to fit everybody into this one system instead of saying, Hey, many different groups of people are realizing there's so many different ways we can appreciate the human experience and express ourselves. All of these are extremely valuable. Perfection isn't the goal, connection and being able to communicate in a way that brings people together that should be the goal. And so I'm not saying don't teach kids spelling, but when we get to a place where we're like shaming somebody because they can't spell properly, instead of saying like, you are such a great communicator to your friends, like you have a way of bringing people together, your communication skills are valuable, even if you're not communicating in the way that Oxford wants to receive an essay, you know, like still equally valuable. And so I think we need to kind of get out of that white supremacist perfectionist view that we don't even realize is so ingrained into our society and realize that there's so many other different ways to appreciate people and that we really should be learning from other cultures that have highlighted those skills more strongly. 

Kayla Deickman 47:40
So that one of the things that I've always thought as kind of ridiculous, especially in the educational system, 

is in Western culture, because of that perfection is kind of feel children who are children now who are learning to read and things like that, maybe doing it while they're not developmentally ready as well. So in the United States, children are starting to learn how to read at pre-K and kindergarten with sight words that are very basic. And then getting it gets gradually harder. However, in other countries it is not common for kids that are four or five six to learn how to read. Typically it's seven, eight, nine is when they're starting to learn how to read because. 

Rich Bennett 48:36
Now. 

Kayla Deickman 48:37
The developmental aspect of your brain is not developed enough to learn how to do that. I'm not saying that the children who can read at four or five six, it's a bad thing. But what I am saying is that 

my kids personally were always behind on reading and my daughter here is just now figuring it out and she's now reading on grade level. She's eight and a half years old. 

They brought up at her IEP meeting how it seems that it just clicked for her. And the reality is it did just click. She's developed mentally ready to learn how to read these things, and now she's reading like a 400 page Bambi chapter. Books like This is developmental, and we have to look at these kids like, Are you really ready for what you're learning, especially in the Western culture. 

Rich Bennett 49:39
Right? 

Kayla Deickman 49:40
You might not be. And that's okay. It is perfectly fine if your child cannot read until they're seven, eight years old. Guess what? That's normal. That is developmentally fine. 

And that's why I personally like my kids. We're doing the beginning foundations of reading younger, but they were doing it through their video games and through learning through experience, and I was totally on board with that. And now, like and my oldest daughter, it just clicked and I'm just it clicked because you're finally ready to do this. And she read really well. So thank you so much. Yeah. 

Ashley Easter 50:27
And also with that, the developmental ability to understand more complex stories I think can also be like. 

Kayla Deickman 50:37
A reward. 

Ashley Easter 50:38
Thing because even at even a four year old who really wants to read a book that says not sat on a spot with a cot and you know, you're like, it's just like it's nonsensical stories that don't have an interesting storyline for me. I really started reading more competently when I was about ten, when I was given, like you said, a chapter book theme is the Boxcar Children, and I felt motivated to learn it because there was an interesting story happening. But if you're already struggling and then people are giving you stories that are incredibly boring, there's no mystery or suspense, like. 

Kayla Deickman 51:20
Who wants to read it? 

Ashley Easter 51:21
And I'm like, Why would you want to read that? 

Kayla Deickman 51:24
Can't And that's that is a great point. And I didn't think about it like that. We're teaching the kids the phonetics about it, like they are absolutely boring 

and not. And again, not all kids can learn the phonetics right away as well. They have to hear it and see it in their environment to like, make sure people are when they're in the car, talk about the road signs, like what speed limit is it now outside? It's 25. That's what 25 looks like. That's great. Like, you know, I think. 

Rich Bennett 52:02
That can get you in trouble, too, though. It's like, well, mom, why are you doing that? 

Kayla Deickman 52:07
Kind of 

like praying hands by having the kids in the environment to read to not just be in a school setting? It can. Yeah. While you're out doing things. My uncle, I know Tim took his kids. His kids are relatively at my children's age, so he takes them out and he will point things out like that building says this and that explains what that building is. And so the kids have already this preexisting knowledge so that when they come across it in a book, they are going to be like, I know that word. I saw that word while I was out doing this and this because it was an exciting thing for them. And reading's never going to always be exciting because your textbooks are important. But I'm sure you know that excitement, each part of reading. 

Wendy Beck 53:00
And yeah, and I think that, you know, 

recognizing the, the issue is first and then coping is second. So I think we're understanding that. We're not recognizing that this is happening to a lot of people, you know, myself and all of us here. But then, you know, taking that extra level and like re redesigning how we learn so that we can cope with I don't even want to call it a disability, but I felt like I had a I was I had a disability and and I still do. I mean, I'm going to be 55 this year and I'm like, so, you know, if you handed me yeah, soon. But if you handed me a book and told me to go stand on the stage and, and just read, I would be terrified. It wouldn't have anything to do with stage fright or the audience. It would be the actual act of doing that. And, you know, that's probably going to change in my life, like at all. Like I used to go around the room and I think I mentioned this to you when we were talking about dyslexia and and I knew that we were going to have to read out loud because the teacher would randomly pick people and maybe that would be like, all right, you know, you do read this. And then the next paragraph and after and I would I would be sweating bullets and I would try to catch up with like, how many people am I going to have? What paragraph am I going to be on? And then I'm going to have to read this and I hope in hope to God that there's not a word in there that I don't know because I'm going to look like an idiot to my peers. And, you know, that was something that I kept very hidden. Like nobody knew that this was something that was going on inside of me. So that's when you say, I need to go to the bathroom, That's when, you know, like all of that kind of stuff. And, and it was just unrecognized. So how do you cope with something that no one recognizes? You you cope internally and then that's a struggle you're dealing with. And, you know, you sometimes, you know, you get through it and sometimes you don't and you're completely, utterly embarrassed or, you know, you feel like a failure or you don't feel like you're good enough. And I think like, you know, coping comes after or we give these people like us value and say, you know, it's okay, it's okay. Now let's figure out how to adjust and move on with your life. And yeah, and I wanted to be a writer when I was very little. I mean, even though I I've only done, you know, like the children's book that I did, you know, I feel like there's there's something in me that wants to do more, but I don't feel like I'm up to par because of this. And like you said earlier about, you know, let's get the professionals to edit it. We're creatives. 

Kayla Deickman 55:43
Yeah. 

Ashley Easter 55:44
I also think that there's a difference between coping as a child and coping as an adult. Yes. And I think the information you have given around childhood and the things that should change. But for me, like as an adult, 

dyslexia is a disability and I'm very comfortable saying that I'm a disabled person and that I also have an autoimmune disorder. You know, there's I have disabilities, but this is a particular disability that I actually enjoy in my life now and have embraced, and I use it as an asset now I have another disability that I do not enjoy, that is my immune disorder. But for this one I actually and I have it in my email signature every single email I send out in my signature, says Ashley Easter. You know, advocate coach. Hey, I'm dyslexic, like my peers, I'm dyslexic. Stay tuned for grammatical bloopers. Everybody sees it, but I put it in a joke in ways everybody knows that I'm just going to bring this forward. Like if you see the spellings, like expect them. This is who I am. And when I'm talking with people about how I can work with them in consulting or doing TV production gigs, those kinds of things, like I am dyslexic and that is an asset to your team because I'm going to see things that you don't see because I have had to do everything different in my life. And so having me on your team as a dyslexic person, sure, you're going to have to have somebody read before I put a casting call out, but you're going to want me to create that casting call and find those people because you're not going to think of the ways that my brain has had to be trained to think because it doesn't fit in the normal system. And so I definitely think that it can be a huge struggle, particularly in childhood, and it can be a huge struggle in adulthood. But I flip it and use it more like, Yeah, I know I'm bad at spelling, I'm never going to be good at spelling. I'm not going to dwell on that. I'm bad at reading things out loud. You know what? I'm not going to put myself in positions where I've got to read things out loud. I'm just going to tell people like, No, I don't do that. But if you want me to give you a 12 minute TED talk, no problem. You know, so like, just telling people like, no, I'm not going to do that, but I can do this and probably better than X, Y or Z, you know, and just kind of owning like what are my strengths and really leaning into those and not really even and. 

Kayla Deickman 58:26
I'm. 

Ashley Easter 58:27
Better at some of those things that, you know, you just can't improve on. Like I'm using a spelling book to try to get better. It's not going to happen, so I'm not going to waste my time on that. I'm going to duplicate that and I'm going to focus on the stuff that I really rock out and make it better. So that's what people want to hire me for because we can find somebody to clean up my spelling, you know. 

Kayla Deickman 58:53
And is wonderful. I love how you look at it. It's such a positive thing. It took me a long time to be okay with my own like, like my internal people ism, because for a long time I didn't look at myself like I was disabled. In reality, I am. And it took me a really long time to realize to see that disability is not a dirty word and that it shouldn't be treated as such. So now I'm I'm very proud that, you know, I again, I share about my dyslexia all the time with people. I do something very similar when I'm writing a larger post out or something when it comes to like my mailing list or things like that. And I'll be I'll say, Hey, I'm dyslexic and, you know, this is how it is and I hope you still enjoy the content. Just know that nobody spellcheck this for. 

Rich Bennett 59:55
And something I've always said with with you and you both mentioned disability and I never looked at disabilities as that. I look at them as differing abilities because you were sitting here, you guys are teaching others and that's the thing. If people learn from it, that's an ability to me. And yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. There you are. I'm going to get smarter. 

Ashley Easter 1:00:22
It's good because I think it's both. I think there are things that I am unable to do and that's okay. But then there's other things I am able to do, and neither one of those things that I'm either able or unable to do says anything about my worth and value. I'm going to choose to focus on the things that I enjoy and try to reduce, reduce stress and pain in my life by telling people, Hey, I'm dyslexic, deal with it. 

Kayla Deickman 1:00:54
Yeah, I know so much. And I know that that's part of the reason I decided to be a stay at home mom rather than returning like permanently, rather than returning completely to the work field. Because I learned I also have like an of thing and then I'm in the process being diagnosed with neuropathic parts. So I pass out a lot and that's a disability. I don't enjoy. It's not very fun, but the upside to it is I can eat a lot of chips and so it's like finding that, finding the positive and all that. And so if my dyslexia is causing me some issues today, I look at it like, that's okay, it can always be worse. I could be passed out on the ground and then I'm like, okay, it's, you know, it's all good. It's like it's it's. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:51
Well, I think we're we're learning and we're changing. There are so many things that are going on now that we know with the brain. And there's so there's I mean, there's, you know, with mental health and disabilities and disorders and just these things that were not recognized in the past. Like, I don't I don't go around saying I'm dyslexic, but, you know, I'm not embarrassed about it anymore because I'm not in that school setting. I'm not in that setting where I felt like it was an insecurity, where now I'm an adult, I've stepped into my powers as a human being and as a woman. And, you know, I have to learn to deal with these things just, you know, with the natural growth that I've come to in my own my own journey. But like, it wasn't always like that. And I think having these conversations is what is making it evolve and and why you guys are so brave and can just say, you know, say it in your in your signature line or in anything else. But like, that wasn't how I grew up. And so now, like it's not it's not shameful, but it's also you know, I had to get there. It took me a long time. 

Ashley Easter 1:03:02
Sure. And, you know, I think that's a good point that you bring up. Like for me, a lot of my work does require me to do things that I'm not good at with the dyslexia piece, like the writing of emails. And so it is important for me to tell people that I'm dyslexic, not because I'm ashamed, but just so they understand what's going on. But if in your line of work that doesn't come into play and it doesn't come up, then there's not necessarily a reason to have to like shout it from the top. Like everybody gets to make their own choice. And it's not like if you if you don't put it in your email tagline, you're shaped like, that's not that's not it. It's just sometimes it's more functional for me to do that than to like, to to have additional conversations with people. 

Kayla Deickman 1:03:53
But it also helps keep people who are super grammatically crazy people from taking things. Yeah, I realize. So then people just kind of like, ignore it then I'm way better with that than I am with people constantly, like separate and now I'm smelling things. So when I share it, it's just it makes it a little simpler. But if I were in an office said it, it would be something that I feel like I could be talking to my senior years about because it's not something I know you wouldn't necessarily want publicized in my office setting. 

Ashley Easter 1:04:35
Right. That was and I don't want people listening to this to think that I'm going to be angry if, like, I really don't understand what you're saying there. Could you clarify that? Like, that's totally understandable. I've had people send me private messages that were like, Ashley. 

Kayla Deickman 1:04:51
I think you. 

Ashley Easter 1:04:53
Might have meant this, but I'm not sure that's not offensive to me because that's like, I want to get my message across. And if I'm not doing that effectively and you're coming in a way that's like, I really want to understand what you're saying, that's totally different than just dismissing my argument or my thought because I put an apostrophe in the wrong section and and those type of people, I do tend to call them out and just be like, Hey, I'm dyslexic. That's not cool, you know? 

Kayla Deickman 1:05:20
And usually they're like. 

Ashley Easter 1:05:22
You know. 

Kayla Deickman 1:05:23
Humble them a little bit. Yeah, right. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:27
Right. 

Kayla Deickman 1:05:29
I mean. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:31
Yeah, Well, actually, I got one last question for all three of you. I'm sorry, Wendy. So what if I will go with Kayla, Wendy and then Ashley? What advice would you give to, say, young aspiring writers who have dyslexia? 

Kayla Deickman 1:05:48
Just give find a good editor and keep going because your creativity is going to be shared 

and get a good editor because that's not. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:03
Just don't let your insecurities prevent you from doing what you want to do. 

Ashley Easter 1:06:10
You have such a unique perspective in the world that it would be a huge disservice if you didn't share your thoughts and whether you need to speak them into a video or a microphone and then have it transcribed. Whether you need to have an editor, whether you need to tell it to somebody else and have them help formulate the things for you. What people want is your wisdom and the uniqueness only you can give. So use whatever tools are at your disposal and don't think that makes you less of a writer because you use a non-traditional way. Writing the purpose of writing is to get information across, and as long as you're doing that, you've succeeded. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:58
Did I say that was my last question? 

Ashley Easter 1:07:01
You did? 

Rich Bennett 1:07:02
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I had one more I would ask earlier. I yeah, I was just like I said, I was taken away by everything. But, you know, with your dyslexia, have you found stuff like chat to be a friend? 

Ashley Easter 1:07:22
Yes, 100%. I love chat. Good. 

And I. I'm here for it. Like bring the air revolution. 

Wendy Beck 1:07:33
Upgrade from typing something or correcting me along the way. I'm I'm okay with that too. 

Kayla Deickman 1:07:40
I have them be going like back and forth between a dictionary. It's helpful. 

Ashley Easter 1:07:48
Yeah. Okay. And theory series. Great. I'm just like, how do you spell? And then you know, what is x times x? 

Kayla Deickman 1:07:56
Me 

embrace y, you know? 

Rich Bennett 1:08:01
Yeah, I love it. Ladies, I want to thank you so much. I love doing these roundtables. I learned so much, you know, and we're going to have to do it again, which is whether it's about dyslexia or. Right. We got to do another author's roundtable 

or anything else or actually actually, we just I think we need to get you back on to talk strictly back surgery 65. 

Ashley Easter 1:08:30
I would love. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:31
To. Maybe Wendy and I can get you on to talk about that. 

Wendy Beck 1:08:33
I'd love to hear Lynn. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:35
Oh, it's awesome. 

Ashley Easter 1:08:38
That would be definitely awesome. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:39
So, but I want to thank you all so much and sorry for having to cut out, but I saw something flash and I wasn't sure what it was. And apparently there was something in my backyard. Nothing explosive.