The Future of Podcasting with Arielle Nissenblatt

Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios Harvard County Living Presents, Conversations with Rich Bennett. Hi. 

How are you today? 

How are you today? How

Rich Bennett 0:27
are you today? How are you today? In 2020-2006, is it more cameras? But fewer. Today's guest is someone who isn't just predicting the future. She's actively cheering it on. Ariel Nissenblad has become one of the most influential voices in podcasting. And recently, she said something that really caught my attention. On threads, she wrote that this year we're going to see podcasters finally get comfortable saying their shows are proudly, intentionally, audio-only. Not because they're behind the times, but because audio is and always has been, its own powerful medium. She reminded us of a truth too many creators forget and I love this line. Video needs great audio. Audio does not need great video. If the sound is strong, the story carries, the connection carries, the audience stays. Ariel has spent years helping creators find their voice, build community, and make shows that matter. She's a curator, a connector, and a champion for podcasters who want to create with intention, not pressure. And today we're talking about where podcasting is heading. Why sound does more heavy lifting than people realize, and why choosing audio only might not just be okay, it might be smart. I don't want to say it might be smart. It is smart. Do Jew or Greer Ariel? 

Arielle Nissenblatt 2:05
I do, and that intro made me feel like I could do anything for-- 

Rich Bennett 2:11
[laughs] 

Arielle Nissenblatt 2:11
Second of all, I'm going to replay it every time I'm feeling low-composed. Confidence, because man, it's cool to hear your work reflected back at you. So thank you for that. 

Rich Bennett 2:22
Well, I mean, the thing is, since I got into this back in 2015, and it started as a YouTube show/radio show. Because I would record a radio station, they would play it on the weekends. I thought it was cool, but one of the reasons I'm against YouTube, or not YouTube, against video, is I only have a face for radio because the camera broke halfway through to recording. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 2:47
[laughs] 

Rich Bennett 2:48
Serious. And, so, of course, I had to take photos of my guests and all 

Arielle Nissenblatt 2:54
Well, 

Rich Bennett 2:54
that. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 2:54
yeah, it's just, it adds more moving pieces. And 

Rich Bennett 2:57
It 

Arielle Nissenblatt 2:57
we'll get 

Rich Bennett 2:57
does. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 2:58
into this whole thing of, it might be right for some creators, it might be right for some creators at certain points throughout their production. It might be right for promotion, but I do really value the audio only as a consumer. And also, I'd like what you said about what I said, which is, you know, valuing the sustainability of, and the longevity of the production over the hype. 

Rich Bennett 3:24
Yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 3:24
And-- Yeah, making sure that if somebody wants to make something, they're not going to be bogged down in questions of reapportioning their budget because they need to add video. The message should get out there, and hope if audio can do that in a way that makes you be able to do that longer, in a way that helps you find an audience that wants to listen, audio should do that. 

Rich Bennett 3:50
Well, and the thing is you--there's another podcast out there, and I can't think of the name of it, that plays the old radio shows. Wait before TV, like Dragnet and all that, and I always loved listening to them. All right, granted, I'm not that old, but what I'm saying is, as a kid, my father introduced me to those shows, and I fell in love with them, because the audio--it was all audio, but it was painting the picture, and you could see it in your mind. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 4:19
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 4:20
And let's face it, and this is something I don't understand, and I really get teed off about this. I really want to start a podcast, it's strictly video, and it's only on one platform. They don't put--to me, that's on the podcast. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 4:35
Yeah. I'm with you on that, 

Rich Bennett 4:37
It's 

Arielle Nissenblatt 4:37
I think. 

Rich Bennett 4:37
a talk show. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 4:38
It's a talk show, and it has its place wherever it is that you're posting it. And, you know, it, names do matter, words do matter because they have implications for advertisers. They have implications for consumers. And also, just for your own identity, like maybe you don't, and maybe you, as a podcaster, maybe you feel like when shows like that call themselves podcasts, it dilutes the name, and it changes how people see this word that you've been identifying with for a while. I, yeah, I used to be when people first started talking about video and podcasting, which I want to say, I mean, the concept has been around forever. There have been videos available on podcasting platforms in the 

Rich Bennett 5:24
and they're 

Arielle Nissenblatt 5:24
past, 

Rich Bennett 5:24
right 

Arielle Nissenblatt 5:25
to pick up again. Uhm, when people first started talking about this, and I want to say 2021, 2020, things like that. How do we record video? How do we add clips? How do we put it on YouTube? I was very adamant that it's not a podcast if it has video. It's not a podcast if it doesn't have an RSS feed. Now, and then I swung to the other side, which is if consumers call it a podcast, it's a podcast. Because, ultimately, they're going to be the ones to dictate this. But I think there's a middle ground of the platforms, the, the leaders that provide the software, naming things correctly or naming things in a way that helps with conventions and understanding is important. So I think, I think videos. Okay, I think if you put your show on YouTube, call it a podcast, and it has an RSS component, and is available on podcast apps. That's a podcast to me. And even if a consumer doesn't know that there's audio available and they just watch this podcast on YouTube, I don't care. 

Rich Bennett 6:39
right. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 6:40
Say that you're watching a podcast that that phrase used to be weird to me watching a podcast, and I still kind of find it funny, but that is what the consumers are doing. And who am I to be like, I mean, even like my good friends will say, I'm thinking about the friends that I've known since I was little, they call me NIS. My last name is NIS in black. 

Rich Bennett 7:00
Okay. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 7:01
They'll say, NIS, I listened to a podcast, or I watched a podcast this week. And a few years ago, I would have been like, you watched a podcast. What are you talking about? And now I'm like, okay, I was being an asshole. Like, no, I, okay, you can, tell me about it, you know. 

Rich Bennett 7:16
Right. What are some podcasts that I can, I do watch. But I listen to them as well. You know, I'll watch the clips. Like Dave Jackson, as the podcast coach. Yeah, that's a live every Saturday morning. I do if I'm available, I will start watching it. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 7:33
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 7:34
But most of the time I can't watch the whole thing, so I finish listening to it. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 7:37
Yeah. And that's great. There should be multiple 

Rich Bennett 7:40
Yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 7:41
distribution angles and consumption points for the people that want to interact with these shows. 

Rich Bennett 7:48
Well, and to me, if you can't do it, you shouldn't be doing it. You cannot watch video while you're driving. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 7:57
Yeah. Please don't. 

Rich Bennett 7:58
While you're walking, why you're exercising. And I think for if somebody starts a podcast today and those of you listening, if you are thinking about this, listen to this very closely, then I'm, I went time in on it. But those of people that want to start a podcast today and they're only doing video, I think they're losing out because there are a lot more audio platforms out there like pocket casts, good pods, these are so many of them. I heart radio and all that. And they're limited themselves. I think for some reason, because of all this talk about you have that video, I do think that a lot of people feel that if they start a podcast, it's got to be video and that's just it. When did this? Do you think? Start it where people just got it in their mind that they have to 

Arielle Nissenblatt 9:00
I think it came from Spotify. I think it came first with, uh, a lot of the investments that Spotify made in creators that, along with these podcast deals, came video. And then Spotify started building natively within the app and making it really easy to switch between the video and the audio. And I was talking to a good friend of mine last night who knows how much I think about podcast consumption habits and she's very smart, she, and I hosted a podcast together during the pandemic. So she's very aware of this and she works full time for a company where she makes content for, internally for her team, but she, she's aware of being a creator and, and what goes into it. And she was telling me that she mostly listens to Good Hang with Amy Poller, the show that won the Golden Globes 

Rich Bennett 9:53
right? 

Arielle Nissenblatt 9:53
the, for podcast of the year. And, if there's an episode that she really loves the guests and the conversation is making her laugh and she wants to see the facial expressions, she'll, she'll glance at the video. And then she mentioned to me that. She was listening to an episode recently. Walking, listening. And then when she got home she was like, you know what, for the last ten minutes I'm going to sit down and watch this. And that's great. That's an 

Rich Bennett 10:18
Right. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 10:19
awesome use case for listening to, consuming Amy Poller show. 

I really think that Spotify 

is the one that like got us saying the word watching podcasts. And then YouTube also. And now people talk all the time about is a YouTube is it Spotify. Who's really winning this video podcast race. And then, of course now we have Netflix and Hulu announcing that they are creating quote unquote exclusive podcasts on their channel. If they're exclusive, they're not a podcast. The beauty of podcast is that they're available everywhere. They use the RSS technology to make that happen. I'm preaching to the choir now. And I think that's a democratizing value that a lot of people would be. Fans of if they if they 

Rich Bennett 11:09
Yeah, 

Arielle Nissenblatt 11:09
knew that. So I think that's what really got us started thinking about that. But what a lot of independent creators neglect or forget or don't know to consider is that those are the deals created for these big podcasts, these creators that have names that people are just 

Rich Bennett 11:33
yes. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 11:34
going to search for them wherever they are and hit play on whatever they do, whether it's in short form, long form, video, Independent creators don't necessarily always have the resources to make really high quality video 

Rich Bennett 11:51
audio. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 11:52
productions. And I can't remember if I was saying this when we were mic. We had a for those listening now. We had a pretty robust conversation even beforehand. But there's I think a lot of creators get caught up in the hype of I mean, even literally this week that we're recording this Apple podcasts announced that they're going to add video. And then I saw posts all over the internet being like, your podcasts will no succeed if it's just audio. And to that, I just say fooey. 

Rich Bennett 12:31
I was going to say hasn't Apple always done video, they're just moving it to the front or something like that. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 12:35
So isn't it true that in iTunes of your that that was available, 

Rich Bennett 12:40
Yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 12:40
you could download that. And yes, they're they're moving it to the forefront. It's really buzzy. And it's to be a little bit more clear and easier to use. And yes, it may present an opportunity for discovery for creators and definitely for consumers. And also it does not mean that a creator who loves making audio doesn't want to get on camera and care what they look like and asks that ask their guests to care what they look like. It doesn't mean that they should shift everything that they do to make video. Maybe consider clips, 

Rich Bennett 13:20
maybe 

one of the biggest podcasts, and I think he just retired from podcast. I don't think he ever did video. And that was WTF with Mark. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 13:29
Yeah. No, he didn't. 

Rich Bennett 13:31
I mean, and he what had 

Arielle Nissenblatt 13:33
a maybe at the end, I know his Obama interview is on video. 

Rich Bennett 13:41
Obama probably requested that. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 13:43
But but and maybe when Mark Maren switched to hosting with Acast 

Rich Bennett 13:50
just 

Arielle Nissenblatt 13:50
and being 

Rich Bennett 13:51
OK 

Arielle Nissenblatt 13:52
monetized by Acast, they probably pushed it. But yes, for a long, long time, if not the whole time, I'm not remembering exactly. Audio was important to him. And I used to cringe at people saying it's the intimacy of audio. It really is just intimate. But you know what? It is. 

They feel with you. They just don't know exactly who you are. 

Rich Bennett 14:33
What do you think is video is not for everybody, either. And one of the things I do love about podcast depends on what platform you're using or software. Your guests can leave you a voicemail. And you can put that on your podcast. Now if you do it on a video podcast, I mean, they're just hearing the audio. They're not seeing the person. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 14:58
right? 

Rich Bennett 14:59
And I just don't, I don't know. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 15:01
the 

Rich Bennett 15:01
I think that 

Arielle Nissenblatt 15:01
switch in media there might be boring. I mean, I've seen people do say you have a video podcast and somebody leaves a voice note for you. I think one way of doing that is showing the wave form, plus some captioning that you can generate. And that, you know, gives at least a visual component to it. 

Rich Bennett 15:22
Yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 15:23
And that can be powerful, you know, that can be something. And hopefully the audio quality is good enough that it's like easy to listen to. And the voice note is either not too long or is edited for clarity. So I do, I do think I do think there's something to that. But yeah, I think what you're really getting at is the back and forth relationship between the host and their audience. And how they can further or extend that relationship. Through the existing infrastructure of podcasts. 

Rich Bennett 15:58
When you put that that, post up on threads, and I don't know if you put it up on Instagram, 

Arielle Nissenblatt 16:04
I put it on LinkedIn. 

Rich Bennett 16:05
Okay. What, did you get a good response from it? I mean, a lot of, do you, do you think that some podcasters were, you know, in a way, we leave to hear someone, especially with you, say it's okay not to do video. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 16:21
Yes. First of all, on LinkedIn, it got like 400 likes and hundreds of 

Rich Bennett 16:25
Wow. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 16:25
comments. And a lot of it was like, thank you for saying this. A lot of it was like great. I was, this validates where I was going. A lot of people said, this came at the right time because I was just considering spending a good chunk on my budget on this. And, you know, again, I just think, I feel like it's important to reiterate this. I really like to not speak in blanket statements when I can. It might be right for some people to add video. It might be right to have a show that has video, audio clips, other components, a newsletter that all send people to your orbit. And wherever it is, they can, they choose to consume what you're putting out there. Great. You're there. You're in those places. It also might not be right for some people. And some people need an invitation or permission to not jump into all of these different entry points. And for them, I shared that. I shared that invitation. My post was really, I was starting to see more and more people. Reject video or say, like, I'm not doing this. Of course, every day, there's more people saying, I am doing video. 

Rich Bennett 17:42
Right. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 17:43
And I am starting a video podcast or this or that. But my post was also, it was a prediction. I think I wrote, I have a prediction for this year. 

Rich Bennett 17:50
Yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 17:51
But it was also hope. And I think I wrote that in the post is like, this is my prediction. Yes. But it's also my hope because I believe that we can dictate a lot of creator practice by sharing. Our own creator practice with authority and with and by backing it up with experience and with testimony from the people that. Choose to listen to us or watch us. 

Rich Bennett 18:20
I I you did on there. And I think that's important us independent creators need to be heard. Because the ones that and I, this is my belief, the ones that are pushing this. 

Podcasts on all the now even streaming platforms and everything. It's corporate. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 18:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 18:39
It's the big heads. Probably never even listen to a podcast in the first place. So you don't know. It just, 

Arielle Nissenblatt 18:48
And 

Rich Bennett 18:48
yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 18:48
some do. I'm always surprised by the people out there that are like secret podcasts lovers. And often, often they are secret podcast listening lovers. And that's because they love it. It accompanies them as they do x, y and z throughout their day. And of course they have to push video because video makes it so that people stay on the app longer. They can hit consumers with an audio ad and a visual ad. It allows them to monetize, it allows them to report that app sign-ins or clicks are higher quarter over quarter. But there's so much to listening and to not having to look at the screen. 

Rich Bennett 19:33
And I 

Arielle Nissenblatt 19:35
think, and I know and I hope that more creators are going to realize that. And more consumers will 

Rich Bennett 19:43
follow. Well, another thing. And this maybe think about some of the guests I've had on, I've had guests on that did not with their face shown. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 19:53
Right. 

Rich Bennett 19:54
For a lot of different reasons. But how many people want to watch a video where they're seeing just me and a shadow. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 20:05
So boring. But even this, even you and me just talking is boring. 

Rich Bennett 20:10
Yeah. But people don't mind looking at you. They look at me. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 20:12
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 20:14
But, 

Arielle Nissenblatt 20:15
but the point is is like, maybe my facial expressions are funny to tune into every once in a while. I 

Rich Bennett 20:20
my 

Arielle Nissenblatt 20:20
talk with 

Rich Bennett 20:20
Yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 20:21
Maybe that's cool. But for the most part, this is not very visually stimulating. 

Rich Bennett 20:26
Now, yeah, I'd rather listen. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 20:29
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 20:29
I'd definitely rather If you're listening to conversations with Rich Bennett, we'll be right back. I want to tell you about a partner I trust for both home comfort and business needs. Eco Cool, HVAC. They're veteran owned and based right here in Hartford County. But they don't just keep your house comfortable. Eco cool also specializes in commercial refrigeration from walking course and freezers to reaching units and ice machines. So whether you're running a restaurant, a grocery store, a lab or any business that depends on reliable cooling, their team installs, maintains, and repairs all makes and models so your operation keeps running smoothly. Would appreciate most their commitment to service and honesty. They're available 24/7 for emergency refrigeration repairs and they focus on keeping downtime low and reliability high for a team that understands your needs and shows up when it matters called Eco cool HVAC at 443 324 9714. Again, it's 443 324 9714 or visit Eco cool HVAC dot com. That's ECL C O O L HVAC dot com. Comfort and reliability you can count on. Actually, do you think that podcast or chasing visibility at the cost of say sustainability? 

Arielle Nissenblatt 22:11
For sure. I don't think they realized the tradeoff that they're making. Maybe they maybe it doesn't matter to them the sustainability because they and sometimes I preach this for businesses starting podcasts is just to kind of use the word podcasts in order to as a means to an end. For example, there are some companies out there that should make a podcast so that they can interview peer companies so that they can interview members of their, I don't know, board of governors or their organization so that they can make them feel special so that they can make clips so that they can hopefully get these people to continue to be part of their organization. That's a reason to make a podcast and in of itself. You don't have to 

constantly be, you 

don't have to constantly be like Publishing publishing publishing week after week after week. If your goal is not growth of the show forever, it's okay to use the podcast as a channel to publish every once in a while for your own purposes. As long as you understand that that lack of consistency won't necessarily mean that your show is going to grow. If you understand all of that and you use the podcast for what it's great at, that's awesome and I think you should do that. 

Rich Bennett 23:36
right. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 23:36
A lot of creators though are focused on growth. They want to reach an audience, they want to build a sustained audience with, they want to build a sustained like fan base and back and forth with their, with their audience and in that case, You probably do need to be publishing consistently and 

Those are just, you know, two different things, two different aims and there are more, more aims when it comes to business podcasts. I, I work with a lot of them. I work with a lot of people who, 

and I'm saying him because a lot of CEOs are men, but let's also use women here. They, hopefully, are, are being more public. They want to be more public with their message, and they want to get it out there. And like I was saying, investors often want them to get their message out there. And, 

Rich Bennett 24:40
yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 24:40
You know, now that makes everybody a creator, and not everybody is born to be a creator or born to be on camera or knows how to be a host of a show. There's hostiness. There's a hostiness element of this that I think is often overlooked. I'm on so many tangents right now, but I will come back to it, and I will say, 

Rich Bennett 24:58
you're fine. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 24:59
I'm passionate about this. I, I, I'll say that, yes, a lot of creators don't realize the trade off they're making because they, they, they believe, you know, I, audience over everything, audience growth over everything and in reality, your audience. I do think it's important to have a healthy, steadily growing audience, but it needs to be the right, steadily growing audience. You could find people in different pockets of the internet, who might be interested in one episode or another based on the title of it or the guests that you have on. Making sure that they're coming back for you is a way to ensure sustainability. And if you want the show to be sustainable, if you want to continue making it, if you want to nurture the audience that you do have. 

I focus on building sustainably rather than just in a growth oriented mindset. 

Rich Bennett 26:09
Right. 

I just, I, that's the one thing I do love about audio, because and I'm going to. God, I hope I don't get in trouble for this. I'm thinking of YouTube, especially right now because Google Per, I forget what your Google purchased YouTube. And always getting nervous. 

And the reason I say that is you look Google had Google podcast. I don't think there was anything wrong with that. And then they dumped it. The Google reader, which was an excellent RSS reader. They dumped so many different things that they got rid of. And you never know if that's going to happen with you too. It's well, I don't want to say just Google ads of any corporation. Your big corporate companies will end up. And it doesn't mean that it's always going to be around. The other thing is I think that. 

And you see this happen. If the higher ups of a company doesn't, they don't like something. They're taking it down. And that's one of the things I do love about audio podcasting unless you stop doing the podcast and stop playing for your hosting platform. It's there. Yeah, it's there forever. And I think that's, I think that's something that a lot of businesses love. I know my sponsors do because they're host red ads. They stay there. So even the ones from 10 years ago are still there. The other thing is, it's a big salon. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 27:56
Shout out to the sponsors. 

Rich Bennett 27:57
Yeah. But I think it's a big selling point that podcasters are missing out on. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 28:01
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 28:02
Because it let's face it, you watch a video. How many times do you see ads thrown in there? And it ain't, it's not even the ad for the podcaster. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 28:17
Yeah, I mean, I was just two weeks ago interviewing strangers on the street about their podcast habits. 

Rich Bennett 28:26
I saw that. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 28:27
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 28:27
That was great. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 28:28
And I'm just putting together more of the footage of it for a presentation that my friend and collaborator, Lauren Pacell and I are presenting at a festival in Brooklyn next week called on air fest. And one of the video compilations is us asking people about how they feel about podcast ads. And I'm just going to share one anecdote, but I think it reflects a lot more. One college student said that she watches on YouTube, she watches podcasts on YouTube, she knows that listening is available, she'll listen every once in a while, usually on YouTube. By putting the phone in her pocket or if the podcast has a podcast playlist there, sometimes you can add your RSS V to YouTube. She was saying that she not only... 

Even if you create an ad marker, it's sometimes so jarring and so different from the other ads that the hosts are... 

Rich Bennett 29:43
Oh yeah! 

Arielle Nissenblatt 29:44
...that are providing that it's shocking and it almost makes you as a consumer lose respect for... I won't say lose respect. It definitely... Maybe it degrades your message overall or dilutes your message overall because... you have this really intentional choice to work with sponsors that align with your values and your mission and the products and services that your listeners and viewers care about. And then you've got these inserted ads that just are different. And that's just one anecdote from somebody who doesn't work in podcasting, is a college student, didn't know the language even to use around this. She didn't know the term "host red" ad. She didn't... 

Rich Bennett 30:27
Right. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 30:28
And that's just the coolest way to hear from people about the podcast space is like how they are genuinely reacting to these things. The words are they naturally using to describe. 

Rich Bennett 30:41
Yeah. Well, I think Spotify does the same thing. Especially if you use the... ...span. Form. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 30:46
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 30:47
Yeah. And this is something when people that want to get into podcasting come to me first to ask for suggestions, one of the things I tell you, you want to do it for business, but put a business plan together, 

Arielle Nissenblatt 31:00
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 31:00
but don't ever use the free platform because there's nothing... You want to piss a sponsor off? Sorry, you want to make a sponsor upset? Do the "host red" ad and all of a sudden and it's interrupted because another ad goes in from the other 

Arielle Nissenblatt 31:17
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 31:17
sort. Yeah. That is a big no-no. And I learned that from when I was in radio. You never have back-to-back ads from like competitors. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 31:29
Oh, my God. 

Rich Bennett 31:30
Yeah. Yeah. And you never know what kind of ad is going to go in if you're using those free platforms which are mainly on video. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 31:41
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of my podcasts that I host is called "Daily Tips That May Or May Not Help You" and we put it every day, it's video, it's audio. See, here I am. I spout the virtues of audio. I like listening to audio, but I make a video podcast because I like to test out all of these things and because we are curious about who will find us on which platforms. But, for our audio podcast, which we host on Red Circle, we do turn on the programmatic ads because we're curious. We actively have to monitor which ads are running and I don't think most people realize that you have to opt out rather than opt in. So by default, you're going to run any ad, but you need to go in there and say, I'm not interested in running ads on this, in this category, this category, this category and that's how most of the platforms work. It can be a shock when a listener writes in and is like, hey, you just ran an ad for this thing that I really don't think you agree with. 

Rich Bennett 32:42
Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. That can... Yeah. That's what scares me, especially with my podcast, which is another reason I never do free platforms. The last thing I want to do is, you know, we talk to people in addiction recovery a lot. The last thing I want to do is here an 

Arielle Nissenblatt 33:04
ad 

Rich Bennett 33:05
from alcohol or whatever you call it now. The legal marijuana. That just... No. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 33:15
No, 

Rich Bennett 33:16
That would not go over well. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 33:17
you know. 

Rich Bennett 33:18
No, it's not. It's not. It's scary. 

If somebody wants to get into podcasting, 

and... because a lot of people think it's easy, first of all. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 33:31
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 33:32
But 

what... what should they look at to determine whether they want to... besides the cost, of course, whether they want to add video or just keep it audio. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 33:49
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 33:50
And 

I have an idea on this, but I'll let you answer 

Arielle Nissenblatt 33:56
it. 

This is the easiest thing to me. The first question to ask yourself is, do I want to be on camera? That's it. 

Rich Bennett 34:06
Right. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 34:06
If the answer's no... That's it. If the answer's no, it's kind of... I've actually made a personality quiz about this. In old magazines, you know, not old magazines. In magazines, you would see like... how to find out which Valentine's Day plan is right for you, like in these 

Rich Bennett 34:26
mm-hmm 

Arielle Nissenblatt 34:26
teenage magazines, and it would be like start at the top. It would be, there would be a question. If you answered one way, it would lead to another, if you answered the other way, it would lead to another, and you'd kind of like at the bottom find out what your, what your personality is. In this case, it would be like, what your Valentine's Day plan is. But I made one of these for one, do I need to have my cover, my face, on my cover art, and the second one I made for, do I need to be making a video podcast? And for both of them, I was like, the first question is, do you want that? And if the answer is no, then you go to the bottom, and the answer is, you don't need to do this. And if your answer is maybe, then you go in one direction, and if your answer is yes, then you go in another direction. And for me, the video question is, do I want to be on camera, first of all? If I decide, I'm okay with being on camera sometimes, do I have the budget to record a full scale video production? If I decide I have the budget for it, do I want to record remotely, or in person? If I can record remotely, do I care if my guests don't always have the same high quality video that I do? Do my listeners care about that? Actually, are my listeners viewing podcasts at all? And maybe one way to find that out is to take a look at similar audiences. So who are your quote-unquote competitors? Go to the podcast listening app of your choice and look at the category that your podcast is in and see what other shows are out there and what they're doing. Do you want to break the mold, or do you want to play along with what they're doing best practice wise? Do that for a while, and then decide break the mold. It's ultimately up to you, and if you want your audience to help determine that, that's a great baseline to go off of. But for me, it all goes back to, do I want my face on camera, and do I want to be limited by the idea that sometimes my guests might not want their faces on camera. 

Rich Bennett 36:28
answer? Yeah, okay. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 36:29
What's your 

Rich Bennett 36:31
No, I love your answer, but my answer was, if you get your point whatever kind of podcasts you're creating will it get your point across just as much of its audio only, or do you need that video get it across. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 36:51
to 

Rich Bennett 36:51
And I think of like movie trailers. Of course, you gotta show a movie trailer or do you get it across. But 

Arielle Nissenblatt 36:59
yeah, because hopefully the use case is viewers, you know, 

Rich Bennett 37:04
Yeah, 

Arielle Nissenblatt 37:04
if you're if you're promoting a movie, you got to do that by way of visuals. If you're promoting an audio podcast, you got to do that by way of audio, unless you really want to disappoint people by giving them visuals, and then the only thing available to them is audio. I think there needs to be a matching expectation. 

Rich Bennett 37:22
Yeah, and just I just I mentioned before we start recording, but there's other podcasts that I'm starting. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 37:30
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 37:30
And I think there's there's no reason to have video with that. It doesn't make sense 

Arielle Nissenblatt 37:35
right 

Rich Bennett 37:35
to me. Yeah, you're 

because the other idea I had was, and I'm not doing it because there's so many other podcasts out there doing it was for businesses, the elevator 

Arielle Nissenblatt 37:49
have one. I have I start we should you should just take over my feed, but it's 

Rich Bennett 37:53
pitch. I 

Arielle Nissenblatt 37:54
it's called podcast elevator pitch and it's more for podcast to pitch their why you should listen to their show, but I do love any sort of pitch podcast because the story is built in in and of itself. It's like, 

Rich Bennett 38:09
what do you mean take over your feed? No, you keep doing 

Arielle Nissenblatt 38:11
that. Well, I only did like one episode. I got inspired for a weekend, and then I was like, okay, I need to pull back on all these things that I'm doing for free and make some money. 

Rich Bennett 38:21
Making money does help. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 38:23
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 38:24
Actually, and I'm glad you said that too, with podcasters, especially video because again, it costs a lot of money. If you're doing just audio, I mean, you can get a microphone for what 100 bucks. Yeah. It doesn't cost a whole lot. But if somebody wants to get into the video and then of course, the editing, do you think that too many people are jumping into it, not realizing the cost and should they come up with the plan to offset that cost, whether it be through sponsors or investors or whatever? 

Arielle Nissenblatt 39:00
Yeah. If you have the hustle, the gumption, all that good stuff, if you have good enough content, it sounds great, there's an audience for it. If you have a real plan to find an audience for it, absolutely think about offsetting the costs. If that's important to you, it could be that you don't want to be beholding to any sponsors or 

Rich Bennett 39:21
Yeah. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 39:22
investors or whatever. And you just want to fund this yourself because you're going to see it as a... Uh, a means to find clients or a means to entertain yourself. I mentioned before that I had a podcast with my friend during the pandemic at the end. Of it, we paid for an editor. We paid for squad cast. We paid for some other softwares in order to host the show. 

Something fun that you can

Rich Bennett 39:59
do. Do you think podcasters have a responsibility to also be podcast listeners? 

Arielle Nissenblatt 40:08
Maybe not a responsibility, but I think it definitely behooves you as a creator to be aware of what other people are making. I mentioned a few minutes ago. Of going to your podcast listening app of choice, going to your category, seeing what else is out there. Yes, because you might wanna see if they're incorporating video or how they're talking about incorporating video, but also because you can find out how they title their episodes. And even within that, how they are reacting to news in your category, and do you agree with it? Do you disagree with it? If you disagree with it, that gives you fodder to make a whole episode about. You can be in conversation with them and around them, and to let them know that you had a conversation about what they had a conversation about, and maybe that sets you up for a collaboration or for a major showdown that could be interesting to your listeners. So yes, I do believe that podcasters should be consumers as well. I understand that time is limited and we don't have all the time in the world, but I do think it is worth it to carve out some time to regularly check in on shows in your category. And beyond just to see what other people are doing. 

Rich Bennett 41:22
Yeah, oh yeah, you can learn so much and tell people where where they can find you. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 41:27
I'm very active on LinkedIn and threads and I would love everybody to subscribe to my newsletter, which is earbuds dot audio podcast recommendation newsletter. I've been writing it for nine years. 

Rich Bennett 41:38
Well, you started in 2014, listen to the

Arielle Nissenblatt 41:42
Well, I started listening in 2014. I started this newsletter in 2017. 

Rich Bennett 41:46
Wow. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 41:46
And I've never missed a week. And so there are a lot of lists of podcast recommendations. 

Rich Bennett 41:52
Great, Ariel. I want to thank you so much. The door is open anytime. You ever want to come back on those of you listening. Please leave a comment. What do you prefer? Video, audio, both. Let us know. Thanks, Ariel. 

Arielle Nissenblatt 42:07
Thank you. This was a lot of fun. Great questions. And thanks for getting me animated. 

Rich Bennett 42:13
Ariel has spent years helping shape the podcast and world through her working podcast discovery, marketing and audience growth. She's become a respective voice in the industry, speaking at major podcast conferences and helping creators better understand the medium. She's someone who truly champions both the listener and the creator. And that's one of the reasons her perspective on the future of podcasting matters so much. And in 2026. She was inducted into the podcast, Hall of Fame, recognizing the impact she's made and helping shape how podcasts are discovered and appreciated. Audio has been connecting people long before we ever turned to cameras on maybe the future of podcasting isn't about doing more. Maybe it's about choosing intentionally. If you're a podcast or listening to this, I love to hear your thoughts. Are you team video team audio or still figuring it out reach out, leave a comment. And let's keep the conversation going.