Andrew Lewin on Why the Ocean Needs Better Storytelling

Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Hartford County Living presents, Conversations with Rich Bennett. Today's guest

Rich Bennett 0:28
brings a whole new depth. To the conversations we have on this show, Andrew Lewin is a marine biologist, a science communicator and the host of How to Protect the Ocean, a podcast that's become a go-to spot for anyone who cares about what's happened in beneath the surface of our planet. Andrew's mission is simple but powerful. Help people understand the ocean, fall in love with it and take action to protect it. And he doesn't do it with doom and gloom. He does it by breaking down complex science, spot lighting the folks doing the work and showing us that every one of us can make a difference. Whether that's through our lifestyle, our vote, or the way we show up for the planet. He spent years digging into everything from climate change and rising sea levels to overfishing, plastic pollution, coastal development, and the ripple effects these issues have on marine life in our own communities. And what I love about his approach is that he's not just pointing at the problems, he's revealing solutions, success stories, and the hopeful, innovative projects happening around the world. So if you've ever wondered which really going on with our oceans and if you care about the future your kids and grandkids won't hear it. Or if you simply want to hear from someone who's dedicated his life to making the world better. This is an episode you don't want to miss. So let's go ahead and dive right in there. Andrew, how's it going, man? 

Andrew Lewin 2:03
I'm great. Thanks a lot, Rich, for having me. This is I'm looking forward to this conversation. 

Rich Bennett 2:08
One of the things I didn't mention in the intro because I love talking to other podcasters. 

Andrew Lewin 2:13
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:13
You started the podcast 10 years ago. 

Andrew Lewin 2:17
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 2:18
stay the September of 2015. 

Andrew Lewin 2:20
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:21
You have over 1800 episodes. 

Andrew Lewin 2:23
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 2:24
So for those people that are getting into podcasts and I would say you know what the hell you're doing. 

Andrew Lewin 2:31
You know, it's like everybody has their own journey, right? And 

Rich Bennett 2:34
Yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 2:35
like you have your own journey. I had my own journey and I continue to kind of listen to sort of the experts and the people who have been doing it longer than I Because podcasting has been around since what like 2006 if you really go back and when the first 

Rich Bennett 2:47
Yeah when it was 

Andrew Lewin 2:47
podcast. 

Rich Bennett 2:48
called a net cast. 

Andrew Lewin 2:49
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I've been listening to those guys and women who have been doing that. And you know it's grown so much even in the last 10 years when I started. You know it was a it was an avenue for me to really just speak to people in my own way. You know I've always enjoyed radio. We all grew up you know I was born in 78 so I'm 47 so we grew up listening to the radio. We didn't have internet when we grew up. And that was you know, so the personalities of the people the way they spoke. You know you had your own. You know like disc jockeys every time like every and host like you would go to different stations just to listen to those. And I really I really enjoyed the, especially the rawness of getting to know the people and stuff right. That was always the fun, the fun part of it. And of course the Howard Sterns back in the day and stuff like that when he would do all his his fun silliness and kind of like the rebel of radio. And then when podcasting when I discovered podcasting in early 2010s I was like this is cool like this is you can just anybody can start. And we can just talk about whatever we want. I think there's like I listen to a guy I want to give him credit David Jackson who's like really 

Rich Bennett 4:00
Oh 

Andrew Lewin 4:00
known 

Rich Bennett 4:00
my God Davis. 

Andrew Lewin 4:01
right. 

Rich Bennett 4:02
He's one of my mentors. 

Andrew Lewin 4:03
Yeah and one of the 

Rich Bennett 4:04
he 

Andrew Lewin 4:04
nicest 

Rich Bennett 4:04
doesn't know it. But he is 

Andrew Lewin 4:06
exactly same with mine. Yes, same with me and and like he just the way he started. He was talking about how like if you want to learn the banjo you can learn the banjo through podcasting if you had the ear for it because someone's there teaching you about the banjo. And it was almost like when when phones like smartphones first are coming like the first iPhone ever came out and the commercial was like there's an app for that you know because there was an app for everything because they you know Apple gave everybody the opportunity to create apps. Well, this is the same thing like there's a podcast for that like there's like someone wants to learn there's a podcast for that you want to learn about mental health. There's a podcast for that you want to learn about the ocean. There's a podcast for that but at the time there weren't many 

Rich Bennett 4:44
right 

Andrew Lewin 4:44
podcasts for that and I was getting into the science communication world where I was you know right around the BP oil spill when I started to see 

Rich Bennett 4:53
wow. 

Andrew Lewin 4:54
Yeah, I mean that was devastating for everybody. Like the US Canada like the world was watching and to see like I worked in Louisiana in 2001 2002 or 2002 sorry and and I worked like in like deep south Louisiana like right along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. We were in the Gulf of Mexico. So I met a lot of the the fishers right the fishermen that would that will go season to season and do like crab like like you know blue crabs or soft-celled crabs and then they go shrimp boats. They go fish and they would do all these different things and you got to know who they were you got to know that that was their life it wasn't just a living to them. it was their life like it was who they were as their identity was 

Rich Bennett 5:36
Yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 5:36
there it was their they're right you know and it didn't matter if they were from the US or they were immigrants coming in like they all love to be out on the ocean they all love what they did and they cared about the ocean I think a lot of people think you know fishing because of overfishing. The people who actually do the fishing don't care about the ocean and that's not true that's like a big myth and I think a lot 

Rich Bennett 6:00
right 

Andrew Lewin 6:00
of people don't realize they actually care more they actually participate with the local sciences institutions and stuff like that and scientists to be like yeah I'll take you on the board I want to know what's happening in the ocean from a scientific perspective right. 

Rich Bennett 6:11
Which makes sense that's how they like you said that's how they make their living 

Andrew Lewin 6:15
exactly exactly and generations like it's not just them they're not thinking about just them in that time they're talking they're thinking about their kids they're thinking about their grandkids and those grandkids like it goes on and on and on and so when I when I saw the B. P. Oil spell is like holy cow like this is devastating and I saw a lot of scientists like these were like big well known scientists within the ocean world so 

Rich Bennett 6:41
right 

Andrew Lewin 6:42
Wallace Jay Nichols who who's unfortunately passed away but you know for some piece he's he was amazing doctor Sylvia Earl who's what well known doctor Carl Savina they all all three of them went down to the golf shores right they all lived all across the US and they went and they brought attention to it not from a perspective of just here's the spill but they brought about like they educated people on what's actually happening because like when I was even growing up I was a scientist when we talked about oil spills I always assumed that when they cleaned it up they were actually taking the oil out of the water. That was spilling in a way that they like they would use booms to corral and stuff I always thought they're doing that then they talk about well. No we're going to use these dispersants to disperse the oil and make it like less so diluted but essentially what they're doing is they're sinking the oil right they sink the oil to the depth. No it's not good at all and think about like with the BP oil spills like it was one of the largest if not the largest spill in US history I think it rivaled ex-owned belt as if you 

Rich Bennett 7:46
happened. 

Andrew Lewin 7:46
remember when 

Rich Bennett 7:47
I 

Andrew Lewin 7:47
that think that was what was really surprising what these scientists were bringing up and then they're talking they're showing the tarballs I remember Carl Savina he actually rented a plane and flew over the area to show how widespread it was and like the oil slicks and everything like that so we really got to see and it was really the it was the coming of age of social media for me anyway I think social media like there was Facebook Twitter I think my space was going out the Google you know Google had its own thing I don't even remember what Google was called 

Rich Bennett 8:20
Google plus 

Andrew Lewin 8:21
Google plus yes that's it and you know so that was the advent of that but Twitter was really hitting on these and like CNN and other news stations were we're kind of like taking the videos from you know Jane Nichols and from Carl Savina and from and and from Sylvia Earl and they were putting him on they had them like you know journalists in the field you know and they so they had like profiles out and you can watch their videos and stuff and that kind of clicked to me I was like this is where I'm supposed to be like this is what I'm supposed to do I'm a marine biologist that lives in Ontario which is surrounded by the Great Lakes which are beautiful and they're wonderful they give us so much but I'm not by an ocean those are fresh water lakes and so I have you know I've always struggled with finding jobs within the thing so I had to do something above and beyond if I want to continue this going forward so I was like okay like I gotta do something so I started up like a blog because blogs are big back then there were a couple of big one southern fried science dot com deep scene use dot com and and I was like I want to bring my perspective and I was like you know what I'm going to do and I was like rich I'm going to I'm going to write every day I'm going to write like a news item every day and I'm going to write so five days a week we'll do you know take two days off because you know I got to have 

Rich Bennett 9:32
rest 

Andrew Lewin 9:32
I got to 

Rich Bennett 9:32
you need a break so yeah 

Andrew Lewin 9:33
Yeah, you need a break. And then I realized writing is sucks, I guess hard, I'm not good at it. It was like, I don't want to do this. This is awful. And so I was like, you know what, I'm really good at speaking. People have said that before. So I'm like, okay, no, let's do it. YouTube was starting to, like you know, it was starting to hit, like it was hitting. And I was like, alright, cool. I'm going to do YouTube. And so I started doing YouTube and I had two young girls at the time, told her. So when they went to bed around like 7, 4, 5, 8 o'clock, I would be able to do the video. And then I realized, this is a lot, I'm doing four days a week. Like, this is a lot of work to edit. And so I talked to an old football teammate of mine. He was kind of in space of like, helping business people. We had a chat, hadn't talked in a while. We caught up, and he had a chat. And I'm like, man, I just don't know how I can get my time out there. And he, he sent me a link, it was a place called mixergy.com. And it was, it was a guy doing video. It was basically one of the first video podcasts that I ever saw. But he also had an audio podcast. Because I've never heard a podcast. I mean, I've heard of it. But I don't really know much about it. I don't listen to them and things like that. He goes, they're free. They're pretty much free to start. Well, that was a lie, because you have to have a microphone and everything like that. We know how much we can sink in, you know, judging by your microphone that I'm looking at right now and my microphone that you're looking at. It's, these are not cheap, cheap items. But, but he says, like, you know, you can just go and you can just start a show. It's like a radio show. So I was like, you know, that's not that bad. Because the editing would be a lot less depending on what I want to do. So I started to 

Rich Bennett 10:57
You 

Andrew Lewin 10:57
do these. 

Rich Bennett 10:58
don't have to worry about a license. 

Andrew Lewin 11:01
Yeah, you don't have to worry about a license. Yeah, you don't have to worry about a lot of stuff, right? And so I was like, all right, let me do this. I've been going to, you know, marine conservation, like ocean conservation conferences for a long time. And I got to meet some amazing people, like amazing people. And they have great stories on the projects that they work on where they come from and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, I want to like profile them. I want the, I want like an audience to learn about them. And because they don't get the media attention that James Nichols would get or Sylvia Earl all deserving and really great. But there are a lot more people as they would probably say too, that could have a voice or that should have a voice to get out there and talk about their projects and talk about their science. Now, I also want to tell you what's that. At that time, we weren't talking a lot about science at that point. Like within science, like science communication was not something that you were rewarded for in your career. In fact, you were probably looked upon a little bit less because you would get, you would get scrutinized in the media, or the media would like, take your words and manipulate it to make it what they want. So people like professors, like these are like highly educated, really great people within the field. We're not even, like we're very hesitant of going to the media. So speaking about science was not encouraged. It wasn't saying you shouldn't, but it wasn't encouraged. So I started to, like, I was worried, but I was like, I want to get this out there. I want people to know that scientists are really fun people, especially marine biologists. They just love the ocean. They love being on, and they're not these elitists that a lot of people are made out to be, you know? When we look at the issues of climate change and overfishing and all this kind of stuff and scientists are like, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that. It kind of comes off as like, your mom and dad telling you you shouldn't do something, you know what I mean? 

Rich Bennett 12:50
Then do you do it then? 

Andrew Lewin 12:51
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And then there's also a lot of other issues we can get into. 

Rich Bennett 12:56
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 12:56
Like what the perception is and stuff. But, you know, we don't get paid a lot to do this, you know? Like to do marine biology. It's not something that you're getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it. We make a decent amount of money to live, but even then, some people are making, you know, like, in the 50s to 65,000s, like, to, you know, in at some point, which is okay, like you can live off of that and still have a good life. The reward for us is being out on the ocean. The reward for us is to work on this stuff that we're passionate about. Right. And so that's something that's just like fishing. Marine biologists don't stop when the day ends like 5pm hits like we're still going, we're still learning and that can lead to burn out for some of us, but it's a big thing for us. It's a passion that lives inside of us. You know what I mean? 

Rich Bennett 13:40
And I would think when it comes to the ocean, you know, the sea life even at nighttime is completely well not all of it, but there's a lot of different things at night versus day. 

Andrew Lewin 13:53
a lot of predators will come out to hunt a lot of 

Rich Bennett 13:55
Just hide 

Andrew Lewin 13:56
things will 

Rich Bennett 13:56
to all life. 

Andrew Lewin 13:57
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so yeah, so like your field season doesn't mean that you're going 9 to 5, you're field, 

Rich Bennett 14:03
right? 

Andrew Lewin 14:04
And if you're out on the field, like when I was on the boat, that on Louisiana, like, sometimes I'm up 36 hours a day, 

Rich Bennett 14:10
Wow. 

Andrew Lewin 14:10
you know, doing work, especially if a machine's not working. You know, if an instrument's not working, you only have, you know, maybe a couple of days to get all your data that you want for that season or that cruise, you got to get everything in the row. So sometimes you're up a lot and it's late, it's tough. You know, the ocean is not always friendly, you know, it can be very rough and, and, you 

Rich Bennett 14:30
See. 

Andrew Lewin 14:30
know, yeah, yeah, the Pacific, the Barring Sea. 

Rich Bennett 14:34
Uh-huh. 

Andrew Lewin 14:34
I was stuck in a tropical storm in the Gulf of Mexico and that 

Rich Bennett 14:37
worst. 

Andrew Lewin 14:37
was the 

Rich Bennett 14:37
Oh. 

Andrew Lewin 14:37
Like, 30 to 40 hours of my entire life. Like I was petrified, you know, 

Rich Bennett 14:43
I bet. 

Andrew Lewin 14:44
And you know, you're sitting there in these massive waves and we were safe, but, you know, it doesn't take much to go for something to go wrong in like, you know, 15 to 20 to 20 to 20 years. And so it was crazy. Yeah. So it was great on 100 foot boat. But regardless, like the whole, I guess the, like my whole point is I was watching all this and I said, like, I need to do this. I started interviewing people and, uh, and it was funny because I, you know, you mentioned I launched 10 years ago. I launched in 2015. I started interviewing early 2014 and it wasn't until like mid to late, uh, 20 to 25 when I launched. And that was because I was petrified. I'd done 

Rich Bennett 15:21
of 

Andrew Lewin 15:21
a bunch 

Rich Bennett 15:22
15. You launched a 2015, not 2025, Andrew. 

Andrew Lewin 15:25
Sorry. Sorry. 

Rich Bennett 15:26
That's all 

Andrew Lewin 15:26
right. 15. I launched a 2015. I started recording in 2014, but I was petrified, right? Because I was like, I'm worried about what my colleagues are going to say, like, am I saying the right things? Am I saying the wrong things? Like, you know, is this, is this, like I'm not a PhD in anything? I got a master's degree. I know what I'm talking about for the overview and the oversight, but am I really saying when it's supposed to do? Okay, so I didn't know what was going to happen and finally, I just said script that press that publication button and I was like, let's see what happens. And the funny thing is is, is when you launch, you don't hear anything from anybody. It's like crickets because you get like maybe 

Rich Bennett 16:03
yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 16:03
like my mom listened to it. And I don't even think she listened to the whole thing. God bless, there's no way she listened to the whole thing, right? Um, but yeah, so and then, but then I started to get, it started to get some traction. I started to cover some, some papers, like some research papers that people had. As I started to go solo, like I did my first 10 episodes were all interviews and then I was like, you know what? I'm really enjoying. I'm going to, I'm going to move instead of one day a week, I'm going to move to five days a week. 

Rich Bennett 16:29
Oh, 

Andrew Lewin 16:29
I 

Rich Bennett 16:30
wow. 

Andrew Lewin 16:30
started to move to five days a week and I then I was like, then a buddy helped me out. I met this guy. He's like, Hey, I want to write, I want to write your show notes. I'm like, perfect. I don't want to write show notes. 

Rich Bennett 16:38
all. 

Andrew Lewin 16:38
You can 

Rich Bennett 16:38
Yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 16:38
do 

Rich Bennett 16:38
that can be a headache. 

Andrew Lewin 16:39
It's a huge headache, but he wants to write. He wants to get experience. So we, we lasted about over a year together working together. He does all, both of us was volunteer, right? We just want to get in. We want to do something a little bit more than what our jobs were providing us. And, uh, and he started to catch on and then finally I realized what it really hit. Uh, a guy who's a friend of mine right now, he doesn't in England. There was a conference that was happening in Newfoundland, right, right in Canada. And he's like, Hey, you coming to this conference? It was called the International Marine Conservation Commerce. Very, very good conference. 

very good. 

Rich Bennett 17:23
Very, 

Andrew Lewin 17:27
Well, 

I think we can do this. 

I think we do it. Let's go. Okay. like beds everywhere. No, it was just like a living room kind of part of the hotel. And we, you know, we'd have a beer and we'd like talk and stuff like that. And as I was at the conference, people were recognizing me from my voice. Which was 

Rich Bennett 17:48
Yep. 

Andrew Lewin 17:48
really cool because I wasn't video at that point. And I was like, wow, people are really recognizing. And so much the fact that I had, I was, I did a talk on my podcast and how important it is for podcasts. And I had my cover art up on the on the projector screen. And somebody walked in by mistakes. This person was not even part of the conference. And then she walked in and she made a mistake by coming into the wrong room. And she's like, Oh, I'm not in the right room. But I'm like, Oh, I listened to that podcast. And I'm like, wait a minute. What do you mean you listen to the podcast? She's like, yeah, I listen to that all the time. Like you like, who does it? Whoever does it? Oh, it's Andrew puts. I'm like, Well, I'm Andrew. She's like, Oh my gosh, I'm we started meeting and we chatting and stuff. She wasn't even part of the conference. She was like, she wasn't even in science. She was just a lawyer or something. And she was just like, yeah, she's like, I love your podcast. I discover it once a night. 

Rich Bennett 18:34
That's wild. 

Andrew Lewin 18:35
The time. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was really cool. So I started to get more and more confidence as I got a lot more positive feedback. 

Rich Bennett 18:42
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 18:43
And then I just it just kind of went, I've, I've, I've, I've continued on with the mission of like, if I can just make one person of my audience aware and kind of just think about the ocean a little bit more, then I've done my job. Right? No judgement. Understanding that I come with faults. Understanding that we live in a society, no matter what country you're in. No matter... That is wasteful. That is built on waste and built on

Rich Bennett 19:16
Yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 19:27
It's expensive to go above and beyond and be environmentally That's just the way it is. And until, like, the big companies, the big corporations start to make these environmentally friendly things at scale which, again, could be against environment. But you know what I mean? Like, until we get into a 

Rich Bennett 19:45
friendly. 

Andrew Lewin 19:45
system 

Rich Bennett 19:45
Yep. 

Andrew Lewin 19:45
where we're looking at more renewable energy, we're looking at more environmentally friendly energy, no matter what side of the aisle or what political sort of leanings you have, this is not

this is about us as a species and us in 

Rich Bennett 20:01
Yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 20:01
taking care of the planet. And so there's no judgement. Now, doesn't say that in my podcast I don't disagree with certain leaders, including my own, including, you know, the U. S., including, like, UK and all that kind of stuff and the decisions that they make. However, we have to learn that we have to

like, the whole point you mentioned that being is, like, voting is like the biggest power that we have in 

Rich Bennett 20:20
Mmm-hmm, 

Andrew Lewin 20:20
the... societies, and the choice. And sometimes we don't have the best choice, depending on which you lean, and that choice may not be your first choice. But we have to make a choice. And by talking to those leaders who are our representatives and saying what's important to us more and more, the more people that talk to those leaders, which we don't do enough as a collective, the more they're going to start to get in their heads and say, hey, it's not about who supported, who donated the most to get them in there. And if it's about the people, and if we don't listen to the people, no matter, again, no matter what political affiliation you have, then you are not a good leader, and you should not be there, and you will not get voted back in. So that's the goal of the podcast. It's just make that one person, just think about the ocean a little bit more, and that can be in their own purchases, that could be there. But I don't expect one individual to change the world by making, like, by not buying something in a plastic bottle. 

Rich Bennett 21:15
But one voice can make a big difference. 

Andrew Lewin 21:17
One voice can. There have been some great leaders across the world that some get more attention than others and some get scrutinized quite a bit for speaking their truth, and they still continue to go. But you see people follow. You see people, you know, climate change, climate change movement or climate change action didn't happen. As much until one teenage girl decided to go on a climate strike every Friday at her school, you know, and that voice just kept going bigger and bigger and then not only was there that voice, but it wasn't just that voice in her country. It was voices of other women in different countries and other young women 

Rich Bennett 22:03
in many 

Andrew Lewin 22:03
and all different types of people in those countries who didn't probably get as much accolades as that person, but they're the ones who really stood up and in some places in countries where they was dangerous to stand up as 

Rich Bennett 22:16
Oh 

Andrew Lewin 22:16
a. 

Rich Bennett 22:16
yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 22:17
you know, against the government and impression, the government and so like you you have to give them credit they should because they deserve it and be like yeah, this is what we need to we need to be worrying about. This is what we should be supporting overall. Yep, 

Rich Bennett 22:30
so something you mentioned earlier. Those people that are listening, especially if the ones that want to get into podcast and 

Andrew Lewin 22:38
now 

Rich Bennett 22:39
you said when you started the podcast, you are worried about what your colleague. we're going to say, not the listeners, you didn't even mention anything about listeners, whether anybody was going to listen 

Andrew Lewin 22:51
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 22:51
and I think that's where a lot of people get into podcasting mess up. They just their focus is like, Oh, my God, is anybody going to listen, what are they going to think? No, 

Andrew Lewin 23:00
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 23:01
you have fun doing what you're doing. 

Andrew Lewin 23:03
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 23:03
the thing is 

Andrew Lewin 23:04
I 

Rich Bennett 23:04
it. 

Andrew Lewin 23:04
truly enjoy it. 

Rich Bennett 23:05
So it's like with me, you're learning from it. And I 

Andrew Lewin 23:09
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 23:09
think that's the key. I think that's with a lot of podcasters don't, you know, they get into it, and they don't really do it to learn. 

Andrew Lewin 23:19
No, I think especially yeah, sorry, 

Rich Bennett 23:23
certain, yeah, certain niches, you know, but 

Andrew Lewin 23:25
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 23:26
I mean, the thing is you're not learning people are learning from yours. 

Andrew Lewin 23:30
Yes, yeah, as we learn from each other, right? I 

Rich Bennett 23:33
the 

Andrew Lewin 23:33
think that's 

Rich Bennett 23:33
yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 23:34
I think that's what one of the interesting things about podcasting has been, and I hope it continues to be. There is, we hear about the podcast on the news about the major podcasts that are usually held by celebrities or comedians or 

Rich Bennett 23:49
right 

Andrew Lewin 23:50
or people who are who are well known, but like the quote unquote independent podcasters. We're here to support each other. Like when you go to a, I've 

Rich Bennett 24:00
Thank 

Andrew Lewin 24:00
never 

Rich Bennett 24:00
you! 

Andrew Lewin 24:00
been to a conference, a podcasting conference, although I want to. 

Rich Bennett 24:04
Yeah, me too. I'm going to go to a suba-ad. 

Andrew Lewin 24:06
Right? And, and, but it's like it's when you go and you, you have that in common. We've all been through the same struggles. Nobody likes hearing their voice the first time they're editing their podcasts. It's like the worst thing they do. And you go from like when you first start editing your podcast, you go from that, and not liking your voice to say, three, four years down the road. If you make it that long too, how can I make this more interesting? Like how can I present the material, the topic that I'm covering, in a more interesting way to get. Not necessarily, sometimes it's to get more listeners, but it's also to grow as a communicator, because that's what we all are. We are podcasting a topic that we enjoy, or multiple topics that we enjoy. And, and what we want to do is how do I present this? How do I create the story in a way, or tell the story in a way? 

Rich Bennett 24:54
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 24:54
That will intrigue the audience, my audience, and make it more valuable for them so that when they tune in, they tune in. You know, when they open up that podcast, that they're checking, you know, the rich. 

Rich Bennett 25:06
Uh-huh. 

Andrew Lewin 25:07
Recession with the rich benefit, or they're checking how to protect the ocean first, because they're like, Oh, yeah, he released an episode recently, so I'm going to go, and I'm going to check that out. 

Rich Bennett 25:14
It's something else you mentioned earlier too. And you and I both do this, but I see this with a lot of people that want to get into podcasting. You and I both were listening to Dave Jackson when we first started, 

Andrew Lewin 25:30
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 25:30
Or I probably even 

Andrew Lewin 25:31
I still 

Rich Bennett 25:32
before 

Andrew Lewin 25:32
do. 

Rich Bennett 25:32
turn the microphone on. Oh, yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 25:34
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 25:35
Yep. Absolutely. And Daniel J. Lewis. 

Andrew Lewin 25:38
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 25:38
Sure the two I listen, 

Andrew Lewin 25:40
yes, 

Rich Bennett 25:40
all the time before I started, 

Andrew Lewin 25:42
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 25:42
and of course, still do, and my God, Daniel J. Lewis, everything he's done for podcaster, 

Andrew Lewin 25:48
oh my God. 

Rich Bennett 25:48
Since then, and even Dave, 

Andrew Lewin 25:51
both of 

Rich Bennett 25:51
them, and Alex from Podmatch as well, 

Andrew Lewin 25:53
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 25:54
um, but I guarantee you, they all listened to podcast. If you want to get into podcasting, and you're not listening to podcast, 

Andrew Lewin 26:04
yeah, 

yeah, true. Yeah, because you get that, like, you get the little, you can take the little tidbits of ideas, like I'll do that every once in a while. I'll just listen to a random podcast. 

Rich Bennett 26:16
Yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 26:16
And sometimes it's like some, and most of the time, it's like, oh, this is an interesting topic. I don't know this person, but I'm going to listen to it. Um, sometimes I go on the podcast charts and listen to that, but a lot of times I'll search on a topic, and I'll see, like, oh yeah, okay, I want to see what's what this person has to say. Cause I find that, I find that, like, a little bit more interesting, but also like, I listen to the way they communicate. And I'm like, ooh, I'm going to try that or that's a really cool way to work on that. And I think that's something interesting. One book that really helped me. And I think it's not even just for scientists. Um, it's a book called Don't Be Such a Scientist. And 

Rich Bennett 26:52
little 

Andrew Lewin 26:52
I'm just 

Rich Bennett 26:53
fat. 

Andrew Lewin 26:53
Yeah. And it's such a cool thing. So this is a guy. I just want to get the, uh, the author, just to make sure it's um, Randielson. So Randielson was, uh, was working at Harvard. Um, I believe it was as a professor of marine biology. So very good school, you know, affluent, you know, he's a smart guy. Decided to quit his job at Harvard, uh, and go into the movies and make a documentary on evolution. So I think it was called, 

Rich Bennett 27:22
oh, wow. 

Andrew Lewin 27:23
I think it was called something, but something by the dodo, something like that. Um, and it hit well and he's become like, and then he wrote this book, Don't Be Such a Scientist. And the thing is with Don't Be Such a Scientist, is it really changed the way I thought about communication. So for us as a scientist, we are taught by facts. So it's all about, 

Rich Bennett 27:43
right, 

Andrew Lewin 27:45
you just spew facts. So if I'm telling, I used to tell people about climate change, I'm like, yeah. So here's the data, this is what's happening over the last like, you know, since the industrial age, we've seen an increase in an absorption of CO2, and then, uh, into the atmosphere, it's getting warmer. It's bifostal fuels, blah, blah, blah. Here's the data. And then people like, well, I don't believe you or that's not true or what about this data or they're not, they're not engaging. They don't 

Rich Bennett 28:12
They 

Andrew Lewin 28:12
care. 

Rich Bennett 28:13
don't understand 

Andrew Lewin 28:13
It's 

Rich Bennett 28:13
it. 

Andrew Lewin 28:14
doom and gloom. Why are you bothering me with this stuff? Like this is the annoying. And then so, so what, what Randy teaches is don't speak to the mind like just by spewing facts, is speak to the gut, because that's where emotion is. That's where you hit the emotion. When you laugh, you laugh with your, with your gut, you know what I mean? Like a comedian says a funny joke, and you start laughing, you're belly laughing. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's a laugh. When you cry, it's like an emotion that you feel in your core. And so he's like, like, go to that. Speak to the emotional aspect of this. 

And- and I learned that throughout time where it's like, tell the story. We all learn by stories, and- before we- like 

Rich Bennett 28:57
Yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 28:58
every television show, every movie is a story, it's just a visual depiction now that's- but when we- as a human species over the years, when we didn't have that visual perspective, it was audio stories, it was just telling of stories, and you use your imaginations with books and stuff like that. And so he's like, tell the stories, but get into the emotional aspect of the story. So that's why I went a- when I talked about the B. P. Oyers' Bill. I didn't start by like, 'Oh man, you know dolphins were dying, and the sea turtles were dying, we started to pull.' I didn't pull that because there's a lot of doom and gloom. A lot of people are like, 'Oh man, that really sucks, but I don't want to hear about this. Like, 

Rich Bennett 29:30
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 29:31
I can't do anything about that.' Well, I talked about a lot of the hoods of fishers who are going out and loving it and, you know, passing on from generation to generation, good people who want to protect the ocean and their lives were changed by this oil spill, because they can't fish in certain spots where they wanted to, where they have been, where they've been allowed to, because of these- of this oil spill, and the chemicals that are in it to disperse the oils, for years they couldn't do it, right? And so- and then people, of course, people didn't want shrimp from the Gulf of Mexico after that, because of like, there's oil in there, and there's dispersants, and you know, it takes a long time to recover, which, you know, we know fishermen don't make a lot of money. Like, it's not- like, especially like the- the- the- the- I'm not going to say small fishermen, because they're not small people, but like the- the- the artists don't be called them, so like the- the independent, just like an independent podcast. You're 

Rich Bennett 30:23
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 30:23
not an industrial movement of the podcast industry where you have, you know, podcast one or all these podcasts, networks that are funneling money to 

Rich Bennett 30:30
Uh-huh. 

Andrew Lewin 30:30
you, and you're getting all this, you're talking about like you and I, trying to make it as getting our message out in, if we can make some money off of this as a business that's even better, right? 

Rich Bennett 30:38
Oh yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 30:39
That's what these fishers are, so I tell the story of the fishers, because that's how people start to be like, well that sucks. Like, these people are just trying to make a living, they're trying to get their kids, like, they're trying to have a life, like we're having a life. Not- I can't connect to a dolphin dying. It sucks, I hate to see it, I hate to hear about it, I will disconnect after- if I keep hearing that. But, if we talk about the people, and if we start with the people story, it's- and the people who live around that and depend around that, it starts to get a little bit more interesting, and you feel like you can do more about it. Right, especially nowadays with crowdfunding and all this kind of stuff, people 

Rich Bennett 31:13
Oh 

Andrew Lewin 31:13
can 

Rich Bennett 31:13
my God! 

Andrew Lewin 31:13
do whatever they want. I just heard a story rich, and this is not related to oceans, but I just heard a story where there is this a creator, influencer, or whatever you want to call him. And he goes around, he tries to help people, and he doesn't die when he was 10, he's felt the connection, he's always felt the connection, he wants to help people out. She- 

Rich Bennett 31:29
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 31:29
And she took her own life. So, he goes around, and he goes, hey, guys, in a rather world, he talks to his audience like, hey, if you know anybody who needs help, let me know I want to help them. This guy is older man, he's 88 years old, his wife passed away seven years ago, he had to sell his home, he's in the US, he had to sell his home, he had to pay for all the medical bills, and all this kind of stuff. He's still working at 88, five 

Rich Bennett 31:49
week, 

Andrew Lewin 31:49
days a 

Rich Bennett 31:50
wow, 

Andrew Lewin 31:50
in a store, right, doesn't say the store, you know, just bad luck hits this guy. You know, wonderful old man, this guy goes out, and he's like, we want to help you, they started a GoFundMe page. And they told his story through the video, that was the content. And so far, according to the video, they raised $1. 5 million. 

Rich Bennett 32:10
Good lord. 

Andrew Lewin 32:11
Right, so this guy can retire. That was the whole point. I want to retire you. I don't have the money to do it. Can you guys help? So like, by telling people stories, you can help people. Now, not everybody's going to get $1. 5 million on that kind of stuff. 

Rich Bennett 32:26
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 32:26
But the idea is that story moved people to the point where they're donating $100, $200, $300, $500, $10. It was just the sheer amount of people that can do that. And we're starting to see crowdfunding coming up with a lot of different projects, like graduate projects, you know, science projects, Patreon, things like that. Where scientists are actually becoming influencers themselves by doing science and showing people the science. Right. Right. Taking videos, underwater videos and everything like that. This is what I'm doing. This is this, like, there's a woman, I forget her name, I haven't looked at it in a while, but who worked in the Maldives. Beautiful, beautiful place you would think like when you go there, it's like extravagant, massive resorts, you're on these big boats. She lived in, she was a PhD student, so I'm not getting paid. Probably just enough to cover tuition. She's staying in literally a hut on the water. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 33:18
Wow. 

Andrew Lewin 33:19
And that hut leaks with storms, there's ants in her bed every once in a while, it's tough. And then all day, every day, she goes out in the field and she deploys these acoustic monitors, because she's looking at acoustics and how it affects coral reefs. But as she goes and she puts it down and she, like, you know, secures them and things like that, she talks about the difficulties of what happens. So sometimes the data logger gets, like, it gets, it gets, it gets water logged and it shorts out the circuit. So she's, she's put that out for, like, however many days has to download the data and it doesn't work. She's like crap. Now I got to get a new one. It costs like 300 bucks to get a new one, you know, I'm a PhD student. I only have a certain amount in my grants to do that. And so she's, and then some people steal them, you know, fishermen will grab and they look because they look like GoPro's. So some people will just see them like, oh, that doesn't belong to anybody. I'll just grab and I'll just go. So like she's talking, she's showing the fun and the beauty of living out in the mall these and studying these these creatures and, you know, every once in a while, she's diving. There's some man arrays that come around and they kind of do circles around her and stuff like that. But then she also talks about the difficulty of, like, it's her story, but a difficulty of losing loggers and what, like, how hard it could be living in the mall these and the hut when you're not, when you're not rich, you know, and not have enough money for resort and that kind of stuff. And it kind of just shows her story and people, like, she had a tick talk about it and people, the more people watch the more she got money for her tick talk. But, you know, the, and story ended up last time I checked her, her, she got defunded or her funding didn't get funded for the next year. So she had to stop. She's back in the UK trying to raise money and trying to find grants to get this stuff. So it's like, it's, it's the constant battle. But it's that story of that person who's a scientist, definitely not elitist, but has her beliefs and she's talking, you following her life through watching her do science. And it's kind of fun when you see it because that's what we see every day. That's what I see all, 

Rich Bennett 35:11
yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 35:11
I do every day. But you may not see it because you don't know because they're out in the remote islands or they're out on a boat and they don't have internet access all the time. But now they're starting to take people are starting to take videos, this younger generation and document what they do to talk about it because they feel the passion to 

Rich Bennett 35:25
about. 

Andrew Lewin 35:26
talk 

Rich Bennett 35:26
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 35:27
Right. And they want to get people to know. And now it's, you know, it's generally okay to talk, you know, science, communication and stuff like that. So we're seeing a, a big evolution in, in chatting with more podcasts when I started, I was like one of the only ones on ocean. And now there's like a plethora of education conservation careers. There's a lot of different things. And it's not just oceans, it's wildlife and everything. It's really, really great to see. 

Rich Bennett 35:53
So with, with the one how to protect the ocean. Ten years. 

Andrew Lewin 36:00
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 36:01
1800 epithets over 1800. 

Andrew Lewin 36:03
I 

Rich Bennett 36:04
know this is probably going to be hard for you to answer. What's one of the, because you have guests on as well. 

Andrew Lewin 36:10
That's a 

Rich Bennett 36:11
One 

Andrew Lewin 36:11
solo. 

Rich Bennett 36:12
of the most surprising things about the ocean that you learned. 

Andrew Lewin 36:19
Or 

Rich Bennett 36:21
guests or during your whole journey of this. 

Andrew Lewin 36:25
It always surprises me. How much we don't know. 

Rich Bennett 36:29
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 36:30
Every time a guest. So it's not necessarily one particular guest. One of the biggest episodes that I've had. And one of the most that there's a couple that move me. So one we did, I interviewed a scientist, Dr. Naomi Rose. Great scientist, orcobiologist, but also like an advocate. And she works a nonprofit. 

Rich Bennett 36:49
Do you see an orca orca orca? 

Andrew Lewin 36:52
Yeah. Like like killer 

Rich Bennett 36:53
whale. Yeah, the whale. I didn't know that was the thing. 

Andrew Lewin 36:56
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's people who study that all the time. Because some of them are endangered, right? The 

Rich Bennett 37:01
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 37:02
North, the South, what the South resident orca population, the Northwest of the United States. They're, they're highly endangered. Right? So, so 

Rich Bennett 37:10
Wow. 

Andrew Lewin 37:10
people study them all the time to find out what they're doing and how they're doing. People know them by individuals. Like they actually know them by individuals. They know their character. They know like what the how they act and who they hang out with and their names. And yeah, it's it's 

Rich Bennett 37:23
really. 

Andrew Lewin 37:23
really 

Rich Bennett 37:23
I had no idea. 

Andrew Lewin 37:24
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 37:27
Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead. 

Andrew Lewin 37:28
Yeah. No worries. No worries. 

Rich Bennett 37:29
Well, that's unbelievable. 

Andrew Lewin 37:30
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can go down the orca route. Uh, I know, I don't call them killer whales. They're, they're also known as killer whales. And nothing wrong with that is. 

Rich Bennett 37:37
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 37:38
People call them killer whales like back in the day because they used to be afraid of these whales. Right? There's never been a report in the wild of an orca harming a human. Never. And they've been swimming around us for a while. I don't recommend swimming with them. Just in case they are a massive or 65 foot, you know, toothed. 

Rich Bennett 37:57
I don't recommend swimming with anything 

Andrew Lewin 37:59
big. Right. But there are people who do it and they've been fine. But there's nothing they've never had. They're very curious. Very intelligent animals. Um, by the way, so we, we, but like I call them orcas just because that's like they're, they're 

Rich Bennett 38:11
right. 

Andrew Lewin 38:12
But, uh, and to take away that sort of characteristic of them being killers, kind of thing. But, we, uh, like, I interviewed her about blackfish, the documentary that came out in the mid 2010. 

Rich Bennett 38:23
Oh, okay. 

Andrew Lewin 38:23
Right about the captivity, whales and captivity. And so the reason why I had her honest was because, as it came out, there were a lot of people like SeaWorld and things like that that were talking against it, saying it wasn't scientifically valid, the science is wrong, this and that. She's a scientist, you know, a PhD. She did her PhD in Orcas. She knows she was one of the scientists that would provide information to the producers. And so I had her on a newer husband, I had him on like the week earlier. He goes, you need to interview Naomi. And of course, like, she's been producing, providing the episodes ever since with great content around, like, you know, captivity and things like that. 

Rich Bennett 38:58
Mm-hmm. 

Andrew Lewin 38:59
And she kind of really opened the science behind Orca captivity and what we discovered from the experiment that we call Orca captivity, you know, capturing Orcas and bringing them into a cage, that were a tank, a small tank. Like, these are animals 

Rich Bennett 39:14
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 39:14
that swim thousands of kilometers per day, up to thousands of kilometers per day. And now they're in the small tank. And the psychological problem that we realized how, uh, emotionally intelligent they are over time. Like, we realized that over time by studying them. And so now we know, from a scientific point of view, that's not a good idea to have these in captivity. So now, like, you know, the, the blackfish was basically telling that, but it came off the story of, uh, dawn, uh, dawn. I forget her last name. Uh, a dolphin trainer who is, who was killed by an Orca during her interaction with it. Um, and so it had, and it showed video of, like, another trainer being like, this Orca, like, took the trainer and kept dunking them under the water and holding them under the water. He was okay after, but still. And just showing, like, this, like, how they started to, not rebel, but how they started to do these interesting things and, you know, see where it was covering it up and all this kind of stuff. Anyway, since then, that movie has changed the captivity game in the US and the Canada. Both US and Canada come out. There are no more, there's no more captive whales. You can't capture, capture whales in the wild and bring them in. You can't sell what they were doing. A lot of the big money makers, they were selling their sperm. Believe it or not. 

Rich Bennett 40:25
What? 

Andrew Lewin 40:25
Yeah, to breeding captive greed, breeding captive workers was a huge thing. So they would go to a different tank. They would go to a different C world, or they'd go to somewhere in China and Russia, and they'd pay for it. 

Rich Bennett 40:35
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 40:36
Money. So they would start to do that. And so that is banned in Canada and the US, and some other places as well. I think France as well. So it now is just a matter of like, what do we do with these? They can't, they can't go in shows anymore. They can't do shows. So a lot of them are shutting down or changing their business model and stuff. And, you know, the science community is not saying that they're bad people. They did some bad things in terms of trying to cover it up and stuff like that. And the people who are training and the people who are working with these animals are great people. They want to do the best for these animals. It's just now we're in a situation where we know what we're doing to them. How do we stop, we know how to stop it, but what do we do with the animals that we have now? How do they go? So there's a big debate. But anyway, that interview was one of my biggest interviews. And it was like right off the bat. But it also made me realize there's a lot more to a lot of the documentaries that are out there. There's a lot more story behind the story. And that made me kind of change the way I look at doing interviews and trying to get the stuff that people wouldn't normally hear or see and get that out there to get them to kind of like think about the ocean in different ways. So like I talk a lot about Orcas, I talk a lot about Beluga whales I talk a lot whales, dolphins, sharks, fish invertebrates, like Blobsters, crab, fisheries, climate change, all that kind of stuff just kind of came out of that. So that's one of the shows that really helped me. And the other ones I do is I cover a lot of what's happening within the field of marine 

Rich Bennett 42:01
Morning. 

Andrew Lewin 42:01
biology and marine conservation. So it's more for the people who are listening, who are scientists and who are biologists, and one of the most memorable one. And kind of one that I'm proud of in a way of what it actually did. 

Rich Bennett 42:13
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

The Hartford County Health Department can help eligible pregnant women and children with low to average incomes get free health insurance through the Maryland Children's Health Call 410-877-1040. That's 410-877-1040. 

Andrew Lewin 42:36
It was an episode I did. A friend of mine came on. She wanted to come on. I did not pressure to come on, but she was a graduate student. Unfortunately she is somebody that assaulted her during a graduate student. And then that person was kind of protected. And there was a lot of stuff going on. He was the funding agency that funded them didn't know that he had done this. But they kept promoting him and having him do speeches and this and that. And so it's her. The story was her navigating her life as a graduate student trying to one, recoup from the assault, and two like... be a graduate student, which is hard enough. So you have those 

Rich Bennett 43:14
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 43:15
two things, but then seeing him all the time, you know, close to him and not feeling safe and going through it, then she actually spoke to a senator, her state senator, and and that senator, you know, believed her worked with her and they came out with better legislation to protect students at universities in that state to be able to, you know, do better, basically to protect the students better. And then we found out once we aired the episode, now this was a, uh, I, you know, I told people before this is a, this is like heavy material. So if you've been through an assault or you've been, then you may not want to hear 

Rich Bennett 43:48
put 

Andrew Lewin 43:48
this, 

Rich Bennett 43:48
up 

Andrew Lewin 43:48
or 

Rich Bennett 43:48
that 

Andrew Lewin 43:48
you may 

Rich Bennett 43:49
trigger warning. 

Andrew Lewin 43:49
Yeah, put a little trigger warning. And but when people listen to it, uh, the, the agency that provided the, the funding for that person reached out to her, the guest, and said, we had no idea that this has happened. We are very sorry for our role and continuing to fund this person. This person will never be funded by us and we are changing our practices in how we fund people in the criteria of how we fund people. 

Rich Bennett 44:15
Oh, wow. 

Andrew Lewin 44:17
just by someone listening to this show, not only is this brave woman talking about it and being able to change legislation, work to change, help change legislation, but we also got another granting agency who understood what the problem was by listening to the show and changing their practices in the future. That is, like, when you, when I look at, like, my most impactful interview, 

Rich Bennett 44:40
So 

Andrew Lewin 44:40
I feel like that was one of my most impactful interviews from a way of protecting the people that I work with that I can't do, right? Like, I can't do normally. This is a way of being like, I'm, I'm just a vessel in this 

Rich Bennett 44:52
journey. 

Andrew Lewin 44:52
woman's 

Rich Bennett 44:53
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 44:53
As a great scientist and a great person and helping get the word out and amplify the stories that they all go through. Right. So that was, like, a really big thing for me. And I continue to, like, take that with pride. 

Rich Bennett 45:08
That's one of the other reasons I do it is. And I've talked to a lot of people that, you know, have been sexually assaulted. recovery 

Andrew Lewin 45:16
whatever. 

Rich Bennett 45:17
or And when you, when you have listeners respond back to you and thank you. 

Andrew Lewin 45:23
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:23
For that. Oh my God. 

Andrew Lewin 45:25
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:26
It's just, it's, to me, it's overwhelming 

Andrew Lewin 45:31
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 45:31
because. 

Andrew Lewin 45:31
it is. 

Rich Bennett 45:32
You're not expecting that 

Andrew Lewin 45:33
100%. I get emotional over it. When, 

Rich Bennett 45:36
yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 45:36
we'll talk to me about and they listen to that episode. Cause I think also too. It's like, again, when I first heard that and, you know, I'm doing the episode, I kept asking, like, are you sure you want to do this? You, and even after my, do you want me to release this? You can listen to it? Like you let me know. She was great. You know, whatever she decided to do. What that was we just said, she wanted to publish it. Um, and, and, and, you know, As a white guy that, like, in middle age, white guy, for me, to be able to provide that help. Like, at the beginning, I don't think I, like, a lot of times, like, I don't know what to do in these situations. I don't know how I can help. I listen. You know, you do, you do, you, you do what you, you know, people have asked you to do and you'd listen, you learn and you listen and each, each person's different in how they, how they react. Obviously, you don't want to see anybody do that. But as like a white guy, sometimes you're just like, am I going to add to the problem? Am I going to help solve 

Rich Bennett 46:25
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 46:25
it or am I going to help this person through the problem in any way that I can, and the fact that I got to help in this way by helping the story get on the platform that reach that, that organization. That helped me to be like, you know what, even if you don't think you can do something, you can do something, you know, I mean, and you just, you may not mean to do it and, and, and, and, but this was just a great benefit to that. And, but it's a testament to her, and her coming on this podcast and talking. 

Rich Bennett 46:51
What, and the other good thing with that is to you're seeing more and more people that have gone through that, come, going on podcast and talking about 

Andrew Lewin 46:58
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 46:59
it. Weariness. Yeah. And it's helping other people. 

Andrew Lewin 47:03
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 47:03
It's saving lives. 

Andrew Lewin 47:05
Yeah. 100% 

Rich Bennett 47:05
by their day. No, it or not. 

Andrew Lewin 47:07
100%. 

Rich Bennett 47:08
I want to ask you about something else. Two things. You got another podcast beyond Jules. 

Andrew Lewin 47:16
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 47:17
When did you start that? And why? 

Andrew Lewin 47:19
So that was a podcast that almost was derived from the How to Protect the Ocean podcast, like my podcast. I had a guy who was my cohost for Beyond Jaws. His name is Dr. David Ebert. Days been in the shark science game since the 70s, you know, did his PhD in South Africa. Like, and he's kind of a guy who knows everybody within the game. And he, I asked him to come on. We talked about what's the shark, basking sharks in the and then along the California 

Rich Bennett 47:54
hall. 

Andrew Lewin 47:55
a basking shark. So it's actually kind of funny. So basking sharks are these large sharks. And they kind of, they like, people often mistaken for like a great white shark, but they're 

Rich Bennett 48:08
Okay. 

Andrew Lewin 48:08
kind of brand, they're brownish in a lot of the times, but they're large. So there's a lot of people like, oh my god, that's a great white shark, but they actually don't eat meat. Well, they eat meat, but they eat plankton. So they eat like little 

Rich Bennett 48:19
Okay. 

Andrew Lewin 48:19
tiny critters, microscopic critters. They don't actually eat like fish or people or anything like that. They're not like that type of shark. But when people see it, they like freak out and they're like, oh my gosh, like that's a great white. And so there was a, they're in danger in the US and in Canada, along the Pacific coast. And so I want to have somebody on to talk about it to get, they don't get people more aware. There was talk about taking them off the list, or maybe they're not on. They, yeah, they're just talking about take at the time. So anyway, so I, I, I, somebody told me about him. I reached out to him. He was like, yeah, sure no problem. And like we got on the call and to be honest, rich. It's like you and I, like we just hit it off right 

Rich Bennett 48:53
away. Right. 

Andrew Lewin 48:54
Just comfortable. I think we ended up, we recorded it. I think we ended up having a two hour conversation before we recorded for it now or just about everything, you know, just like the sharks and his career and sports and, and all that kind of stuff. And so, you know, we had just had a great time. And so I said, hey, like anytime you have something coming out a paper or anything like this guy discovers sharks. So he's, he's discovered and named 50 different, over 50 different types of sharks. Like he's known as a lost shark guy. I highly recommend you check out his YouTube channel. 

Rich Bennett 49:27
Wow. 

Andrew Lewin 49:27
I've been editing and helping him with a a kind of like a bit of a vlog of what he does to look for sharks. He goes to these different fishing villages all over the world. But he like sometimes are like little sharks. They're deep sea sharks. Sometimes they're big. Sometimes they're, they're small. But yeah, he's done a lot. So he know with him knowing everything and us getting along and him really enjoying podcast. He came on another couple times and we kept saying we got into a podcast here. We got to do a podcast together. And I said, let's do a podcast together. And so we started off as part of a society. So I had another podcast that I was working on with somebody called the Marine Man well science podcast. it was with the science. It was with the society of marine mammology. So an actual like biological society that talks about marine mammals and studies marine mammals. And this one was the American Alaska Brake Society. And so they talk about sharks raise chimeras. All these different types of sharks. And so I said, why don't we start a podcast where we interview people within the society to get, just kind of get people to get to know the different people within the society. So we started that. We did that for a year with them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. There are some things that are happening at the board level. There was a bit of a change in sort of knowledge and outlook and stuff like that. So it didn't really, you know, pan out the way we had hoped. And so they said, yeah, we're not going to fun. We're not going to put it under the name of the American Alaska Brake Society more. We're like, you know what, that's okay. Like we get it. We really like doing this and people were listening and people really enjoyed it. So we're like, we're just going to continue it on our own. You know, we still have funding for it. And we got funding for it. So we were getting paid to do it. Not much. But we were getting paid to do it. And it was a great, the save our CE society was funding this, which is a big society for funding like new kind of projects and things like that that are that normally wouldn't get funded. And they're a great, great organization. And so we were like, okay, cool. Like let's let's continue doing it. And we've been doing since 2021. And the goal of it is to interview a shark scientist to get to understand how they became shark scientists and understand their careers. So some of these careers, just like Dave, they they've been in these for like 35 plus years. So they're giving advice for new people, they're doing all that kind of stuff. And it's great. It's been working out really, really great. People like young people are listening and they're like, like young scientists and they're like, 

Rich Bennett 51:49
what? 

Andrew Lewin 51:49
Hey, you know 

Rich Bennett 51:50
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 51:51
Let's hang out. Like let's let's I want to I didn't know this person that I looked up to had such trouble like a meandering path, career path, where they were like, Oh my gosh. Like this is This is really great. I didn't know that it's not a straight path. You don't go to school, get graduate work, and then get a job right up the bat. You could work in some other kind of industry. You can do this, and you can go in and out, in and out, depending because you just don't know what the jobs are. It's not easy to find a job as a shark scientist. There's not as much funding. There's more people that are working in the industry. So we talk a lot about that, then we'll do these bonus episodes on like, "Oh, there was a report on oceanic white tip sharks in the Pacific, and what their population levels are like and how they've changed over time, and stuff like that. So we'll do that every once in a while, or somebody who received an award. So we'll profile them. But congratulations. Why did you get this award? Because I did this. Well, that's awesome. Let's celebrate 

Rich Bennett 52:48
great. 

Andrew Lewin 52:48
you. And so, yeah, so it's really great. We've had people who have just graduated, to graduate students, to people who have been in the industry for five, 10, 20, 30, 40 years, and it's been, it's been a great journey. And Dave knows a lot of the people personally. And so if we get great stories out of them, you know, we talk about like how they, you know, some of them, how they met back in the eighties 

Rich Bennett 53:10
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 53:10
at a conference, they're having drinks, and they get up to no good. And then they go back, you know, and then now 30 years later, they're working on a paper together. You know, it's just cool stuff like that, you know. 

Rich Bennett 53:20
It's the behind the scenes. 

Andrew Lewin 53:22
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 53:23
People don't think about 

Andrew Lewin 53:24
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 53:25
this. 

Andrew Lewin 53:25
Exactly. It's the bonds, right? You build 

Rich Bennett 53:27
Yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 53:27
these bonds with careers, right? Like, like, you were in the military. I can just imagine like the bonds that you built with, you know, your fellow military personnel, right? Like 

Rich Bennett 53:35
still stay in touch. 

Andrew Lewin 53:37
Exactly. Right? 

Rich Bennett 53:38
That's why they call it a brotherhood. 

Andrew Lewin 53:40
Mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 53:41
With those two podcasts, is that what started the speak up for the blue podcast network? And do you do you want to add more podcasts to that? 

Andrew Lewin 53:51
Yes and yes. The network. 

Rich Bennett 53:55
I like that. 

Andrew Lewin 53:56
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Most definitely. The network 

idea came when I first started. I was like, ooh. 

Rich Bennett 54:04
Okay. 

Andrew Lewin 54:04
I was like, we can have a bunch of these. You know, so I started off. How to protect the ocean when I first started was called speak up for blue? So that's how speak that's where speak up for blue came from. And I was like, speak up for the ocean. The ocean is blue. I changed the name over times for search because I didn't have the word ocean. And that was a really important thing I learned. But when 

Rich Bennett 54:26
it 

Andrew Lewin 54:26
I Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 54:26
difference, 

Andrew Lewin 54:27
But what happened was as I started to go to these conferences and I started covering these I started to go to more of these conferences and doing podcast episodes because it's like latest research. Nobody's ever heard of this before. Let's interview these people 

Rich Bennett 54:38
right? 

Andrew Lewin 54:38
at the conferences. And people are like, I want to start a podcast. How do I do it? I'm like, yeah. Okay. Cool. This is how we do it. And then so what I would do is I say, look. I can handle all the technical stuff for you, like putting it up, signing up for the account, this is not. I'll even pay for it, like just to get you up there. You just send me what you want to send. I can talk you through like the microphones and all that kind of stuff. Just send me what you said. So I had a couple, like probably about four or five that I had helped start where the other people were doing this. And that was the idea. I was like, let's do a network. Like, if we all kind of come together, there was a couple of other people who were doing podcasts. I'm like, if we all come together and team up and just focus our voices outwards to really get more topics out there, get more fun things, like two female scientists got together and started out what they call Madame Curiosity, which was about documenting women scientists over history. So Madame Curie, like talking about that. It was great. Wonderful. But the problem was for them, like, I, as you know, doing a podcast is extremely time consuming. No matter what you think, you can sit down and record, but that's just a percentage, like a 

Rich Bennett 55:49
do. 

Andrew Lewin 55:49
small 

Rich Bennett 55:49
Yeah. That's 

Andrew Lewin 55:49
percentage of what you 

Rich Bennett 55:50
a small percentage. 

Andrew Lewin 55:51
Yeah, if you want to grow and you want to, you know, publish it and edit it and all that kind of stuff. And so like a lot of the people had their careers, well, some of them are graduate students like doing PhDs and stuff like that, which is a job in a half, in my opinion. So they didn't always have the time to make it consistent. And so like, over time, it just didn't like they didn't work out. And so they kind of said either they paused it or they went on their own. And I said, you know what? Take your show and you keep it. Like, they wanted they said, can we keep it? Yeah. Like this, I'm just paying for the hosting. So it'll help me. If you're not going to contribute at this point, there's no point in paying for the hosting. 

Rich Bennett 56:23
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 56:24
You know, you take it and some of them were a little disagreements and stuff like that. It was me learning how to deal with having a network and what goes into it. And I probably had too many shows and I never met because I was so busy doing my own working, being a parent, I'm a hockey coach, football coach, you know, trying to do too much. Yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 56:42
time. 

Andrew Lewin 56:42
yeah. I have no 

Rich Bennett 56:42
Damn. 

Andrew Lewin 56:43
I sleep very rarely. So you know, it's so like it was it was just me not managing it properly and keeping people connected and stuff like that and then getting a business side of it too to make it worthwhile. So I I that a lot of the shows left. So I had like one two three four plus mind so five shows and then they four of them six and then four of them left six five of them left I had my own and then beyond jaw started and I was like okay cool and I had a couple of other ones I had a network. I use pod page. I had a network. 

Rich Bennett 57:17
network. 

Andrew Lewin 57:17
I have a 

Rich Bennett 57:17
Okay, 

Andrew Lewin 57:18
just put up and I'm like hey you guys want to be part of a network. It's just basically posting this on this website and 

Rich Bennett 57:23
I 

Andrew Lewin 57:23
they're like yeah sure no problem. I took those down now and now it's really the two of us because that's what I can focus on and so the goal is to build it out slowly but these are going to be a little bit more business like in this Yes and every show that I start is going to be funded but I get control I control the content. I may not be the host all 

Rich Bennett 57:47
so 

Andrew Lewin 57:47
the time but I'm controlling the content. I'll pay a host because I'll be funded and that's how I want to go from there because then I can say look if you don't if this host doesn't have time to go beyond six episodes then I can get a different host to do it or I can fill 

Rich Bennett 58:01
unlike that 

Andrew Lewin 58:02
and so it's just a matter of it's nothing against the other people that I was working with it was just their jobs and it wasn't their priority so if I can pay a dedicated host then maybe it becomes a little bit more of a priority for them if they want to continue on and we can talk about you know negotiating stuff and so the idea is like almost like make a business out of this not just not just go from hey yeah that's really cool idea let's do this podcast is let's try and build this up as much as possible and let's bring in let's let's concert our efforts to get money from sponsors and companies that are really eco-friendly that want to help 

Rich Bennett 58:36
right oh 

Andrew Lewin 58:37
So that's the goal I actually have a crowdfunding campaign now to do a Seagrass podcast and yeah I'll send you the link if you want to post it. 

Rich Bennett 58:47
Absolutely 

Andrew Lewin 58:48
yeah so the goal like so Seagrass is aren't really talked about a lot but they're just as important as coral reefs and I've over the years I talk to a lot of Seagrass biologists and restorationists and so we do a lot of a podcast on that I said you know what this is something that I really like to do but in a different model so the goal is bring like the goal is for the podcast not just to educate audience members but also kind of connect researchers together so by talking about one say project or research paper. 

People on the other side of the world could listen to it and then be like oh I'm going to contact that person so it's almost like a bit of a networking ability is putting them on a platform and so people can hear about it. And then the other idea is like the people who funded who pay for it will have a portion of that will go towards restoring another Seagrass on the other world and we're going to follow that project along and so give people updates so it's like by listening and by helping this podcast get going you can help restore Seagrass which has wonders for biodiversity for carbon capture and all this kind of stuff. 

Rich Bennett 59:51
There are so many things you could do podcast wise to help it because once you mentioned coral reef I thought of one of my best friends who unfortunately passed away. 

Andrew Lewin 1:00:04
No, I'm trying to hear that 

Rich Bennett 1:00:05
and one of the things that he wanted was for his ashes to be 

Andrew Lewin 1:00:11
in a reef ball 

Rich Bennett 1:00:12
court yes 

Andrew Lewin 1:00:14
yes 

Rich Bennett 1:00:14
yeah I'd never heard of that until 

Andrew Lewin 1:00:15
yeah 

Rich Bennett 1:00:16
that's a thing you could do that 

Andrew Lewin 1:00:18
yeah yeah you can do that. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:20
But it's just I think there's a few listening you definitely definitely have to go and listen to Andrew's podcast again how to protect the ocean because. I do believe that a lot of people don't realize the stuff that's going on and I know there's a lot we didn't talk about we. 

Andrew Lewin 1:00:39
Yeah 

Rich Bennett 1:00:39
the oil spells people think about that but the other thing is to the plastics. Whatever that are in the water yeah and it that's one thing and I don't know if you know anything about this what because with power. You know they run a lot of cables underwater let's go and all that does that affect sea life as well or do we know yet. 

Andrew Lewin 1:01:07
We've been laying cable for a number of decades 

Rich Bennett 1:01:12
now right 

Andrew Lewin 1:01:13
for for quite some time there are there are you know environmental depending on the country their environmental assessments that that company has to go through to undergo before they can lay any kind of any kind of cable. Locally because of words labeled and words laid in how it's actually installed it will have a local effect on where it's installed because it's installed on the bottom of the ocean so whatever's around that at the time we'll either get blasted or we'll get. You know move hopefully so like you know fish move crabs move that kind of stuff 

Rich Bennett 1:01:47
right. 

Andrew Lewin 1:01:47
But they'll probably not put it through or try not to put through like a specific habitat. Unless they don't know it's there 'cause some of these are pretty deep. You know what I mean? And some of them we don't know a lot about some of the ocean. For some reason I'm thinking like the Black Sea, especially because the Black Sea has a lot of cable that goes through it. But uhm, so yeah, so they could have an effect on, on marine life. I don't know if we know exactly like any kind of metals leaching from the construction materials that are on there. The effect generally probably won't have a huge effect because again it's, it's local. And like the metals won't just go through it. It's like, it's not as if like the, if there's plastic use, I don't think you wouldn't be able to use plastic at that depth because you'd have to be a specific like a titanium or something like that. Uhm, for it to handle the pressure at that, at that depth. But uhm, yeah, I wouldn't have like a huge effect but there are definitely regulations around it. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:41
Okay. 

Andrew Lewin 1:02:41
That should, in most countries, can't say every country. And whether that's in force, that's another thing, too. So, 

Rich Bennett 1:02:46
have you had anybody on yet talking about, now I'm, I'm thinking military-wise, 

Andrew Lewin 1:02:53
mm-hmm, 

Rich Bennett 1:02:54
um, unexploded ordinance in the ocean and how they can leak. 

Andrew Lewin 1:02:59
Yeah, no, we, I haven't had anybody on, uh, on, for the military talking about that. Um, I have, when I worked in the Gulf of Mexico we, we used to pick up Navy researchers from, uh, the Navy base, I think is in 

Rich Bennett 1:03:15
Okay. 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:16
Alabama, is it mobile? No. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:17
I believe so. 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:19
Yeah, it's a mobile 

Rich Bennett 1:03:19
somewhere down there, 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:20
yeah. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:21
I 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:21
yeah. Uh, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:21
don't 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:21
wouldn't, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:21
know. They were our tendency to look. Maybe was our taxi service 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:24
all. Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:24
at 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:26
but I used to, I used to participate in studies around that and I like to go into a Navy yard like that. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:33
Yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:33
and actually that was right around when the USS coal came back, you know, that one, the, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:37
oh yes, 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:38
just to see those battleships and how big they actually 

Rich Bennett 1:03:40
are. They're amazing. 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:41
You, they don't, TV doesn't do it justice. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:44
Now, 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:45
massive, these buildings are, like they are buildings, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:47
means? 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:48
you know what 

Rich Bennett 1:03:48
Some 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:48
it 

Rich Bennett 1:03:48
of those seas, you look at an aircraft carrier. It's like a freaking city. 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:51
it is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I went on the midway that stationed, you know, the old midway, the USS Midway that station in San 

Rich Bennett 1:03:57
Uh-huh. 

Andrew Lewin 1:03:57
Diego is like a museum now. That's not, and they're like, yeah, that's like a tiny one. You're just like, what are you talking about? This is the tiny one. Um, but anyway. Yeah, we used to, we used to have them on and they used to do a lot of optics to look for, uh, like sea mines and things like that. So they 

Rich Bennett 1:04:12
Okay, 

Andrew Lewin 1:04:12
were looking at studying how to study optics and different things. And we had like navy, like reserve Navy, Navy seals come in these guys like, you just sit there. You're like, you are built different. You are built different than everybody else, you know, in military people, like, I got love them. Like I, I, I, I definitely support the military and, and I, like I said this before, but thank you for your service and everything. But they're, you guys are built different. Just the process that I definitely, you know, I, I respect that. I respect that. But it was, it was very cool. And so then we talked a lot like just the conversations on the boat that you'd have 

Rich Bennett 1:04:47
people. 

Andrew Lewin 1:04:47
with 

Rich Bennett 1:04:47
Yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 1:04:48
And like, oh, like, yeah, these are some of these mines have been here since like, you know, not necessarily around the US, but like some of the mines out there that have been there since like the 40's, you know, during World 

Rich Bennett 1:04:57
Uh-huh. 

Andrew Lewin 1:04:57
War One and things like that. And you start to realize, you know, what was happening in World War One with you boats and how close they got to, to our shores and things like that, right? And, and so, so yeah, so that was, but I've never, you know, we've never really discussed like the leaking of materials of old mines or old, you know, ordnances and things like that. It would definitely be something that that would be interested in talking about because I think that's something that, again, you just don't think about because it could over the long lasting period. It could have effect. I would say more locally, but it depends on how much is leaking and the currents where they're going and what's around that. But yeah, it's definitely interesting. I did have an organization that worked with veterans. It was a non-profit organization. I forget, as a team blue or something like that, were they, they're on the East Coast of the US. And what they do is they work with veterans who come back from, you know, from their deployments and things like that. And obviously, they go through life changing, you know, events. 

Rich Bennett 1:05:59
It's hard to transition, yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 1:06:00
hard to transition, but it's also what the the person was saying was that it's hard to feel like you have a purpose when you come home because you're kind of lost in whatever you're doing, right? And so what this organization does works with veterans to take them out on boats to do science experiments with scientists, so they could, cause. 

Rich Bennett 1:06:19
A 

Andrew Lewin 1:06:20
lot of these military guys have electronic training, electronic engineering training, boat experience, being in the field so they can take harsh things, but what it did was it gave them a purpose, You know, and it gave them an idea of what they could do and some of them have gone on to become like marine technicians in the science world or some of them going on to like open up their own businesses and like be an electronic engineer or work with 

Rich Bennett 1:06:45
right? 

Andrew Lewin 1:06:46
machinery and things like that. But what he says it just like when people come home, it's it's a difficult transition. And so the idea of giving them something to do and some like a purpose to do and to fulfill makes them feel like they're wanted like they have something to do, you know, they're going from battle where they have orders, and they do certain things to come home. It's peaceful and and now you got to live life and you got to forget, you know, people like if you think about what we asked people like military people to do and I of course I don't know a lot of military people. You're close to a lot of military people, but if you think about the ideas, you go and you fight for our freedoms. And then you come home and you're supposed to just what forget what you went through and like every all the mental stuff and potentially hopefully not but physical stuff that rehabilitation and then you're just supposed to live life as if nothing happened. It's a very interesting way of of of thinking about it. And so having programs like this that help like going out to see or doing some work in the science world where people can be very useful and and and not just useful but like in integral to the to the the science that does it. And it makes them feel like they have purpose and then of course everybody being on the ocean makes you feel good. You know, we all would love the ocean. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:02
And it's called team blue. 

Andrew Lewin 1:08:03
I think 

Rich Bennett 1:08:05
I 

Andrew Lewin 1:08:05
it's called 

Rich Bennett 1:08:05
have to look for 

Andrew Lewin 1:08:06
Yeah. Yeah. It's been it was when I was one in my early early 

Rich Bennett 1:08:10
that. 

Andrew Lewin 1:08:10
interview. So I'll have to 

Rich Bennett 1:08:10
Okay. 

Andrew Lewin 1:08:10
look that up. But yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:11
I love talking to the veteran organizations. 

Andrew Lewin 1:08:14
It's so good. 

Rich Bennett 1:08:15
I mean, I love talking to nonprofits. Period. Especially very good nonprofit helping 

Andrew Lewin 1:08:21
making 

Rich Bennett 1:08:21
a difference. So before I get to my last question. Well, two things. Number one, tell everybody how they can find you. 

Andrew Lewin 1:08:30
Absolutely. You can find me by going to speak up for blue dot com, all one word speak up for blue dot com. I have two podcasts on there, how to protect the ocean podcast, which covers pretty much everything around the ocean and conservation. And then beyond jobs, which we talked about shark science podcast. If you're interested in sharks, you're interested in learning about the shark scientists that are doing the wonderful work and the great work. We even have a great episode, we older like like the shark vets. Let's just say we call them the jaws generation and we talked about the 50 year anniversary of jaws and how it impacted their 

Rich Bennett 1:09:05
got 

Andrew Lewin 1:09:05
career. And if you think about it, like a lot of people will say jaws made like kind of made sharks look evil all the time, which yeah, it did have that component. But one component that doesn't that nobody knows it actually caused a lot of funding to go towards great white shark research because all of a sudden government officials like, we need to know more about these because people are freaking out. And and and great white sharks in the US is one of the greatest conservation stories that we have seen in a long time because there are a lot of great white sharks on the west coast. 

And so then California, and then there's a lot of great white sharks on the east coast that are now starting to move up into Canada more 

Rich Bennett 1:09:48
like God 

Andrew Lewin 1:09:48
and more. So these things have were once endangered, still technically a danger, but they're getting they're getting better in the population again very because we studied them more. And it was jaws helped that funding start to this jaws generation where you're seeing guys and women who have been absolutely amazing and crucial to, you know, furthering our information about about sharks. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:10
Thanks for making me feel so damn old. Now he said that jaws 50 

Andrew Lewin 1:10:14
Hey, 

Rich Bennett 1:10:15
years. 

Andrew Lewin 1:10:15
I get it. I get it. I was born. I think what one of the like a year after one of them was was released. So I get it. I understand. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:22
I just I just saw something about how that movie. It's scared a lot of people, but you did not see the shark until like almost the end. It was just that music that dot 

Andrew Lewin 1:10:36
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:37
that 

Andrew Lewin 1:10:37
day. Do you know why do you know why you didn't see the shark a lot. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:42
Well, it was a robot wasn't 

Andrew Lewin 1:10:43
And it's and it sucked 

Rich Bennett 1:10:46
it? 

Andrew Lewin 1:10:46
as a 

Rich Bennett 1:10:46
Yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 1:10:46
robot. It sucked. They said they had so many that they tried to fix it so many times. It never worked because you think about it. It's the 70s, right? When they shot this. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:55
Yeah, there was no computer. 

Andrew Lewin 1:10:56
Because no computer. There's no CGI or anything like that. 

Rich Bennett 1:10:59
Yeah. 

Andrew Lewin 1:11:00
It was an actual robot in the water. One of the scientists was actually from Cape Con and was watching a lot of this like being shot and stuff. And you know, you're just like, you've got to be kidding me. Like this thing did not work. And it scared the heck out of all of us. You know what I mean? So it made us like think of twice about going into our own pools. You know what I guess. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:22
Who's going to make good blooper reels? 

Andrew Lewin 1:11:24
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah. There's like, there's, there's, um, I don't think they're sure it's put us a lot of, there's a lot of, uh, like, pictures of the robot shark, like from the from the set, like it's 

Rich Bennett 1:11:34
cool. 

Andrew Lewin 1:11:34
pretty 

Rich Bennett 1:11:34
Right. 

Andrew Lewin 1:11:35
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:36
Yeah. Man, wait a minute, did I ask you, uh, I can't remember if I asked you if there was anything you wanted to add or not, you got, you see, you threw me off of jaws. 

Andrew Lewin 1:11:44
Oh, I'm 

Rich Bennett 1:11:45
Was 

Andrew Lewin 1:11:45
sorry, 

Rich Bennett 1:11:45
there 

Andrew Lewin 1:11:45
I apologize. 

Rich Bennett 1:11:46
anything you wanted to add? 

Andrew Lewin 1:11:48
I would say, like, for my mission of, you know, getting people to understand the ocean best, I would say, like, you know, how people will say touch grass, you know, like, to kind of feel grounded to their touch some ocean, touch some water, get connected. It's very important that we are connected to nature, not just oceans, but like, you know, I'm going to assume a lot of your audiences from the US. Um, your national parks are phenomenal, your national park system is phenomenal. Go out, touch a tree, touch grass, connect with the ocean, go on a boat ride, go fishing, you know, if you're hunter, go hunting, go in and, and connect with nature, scuba diving, snorkeling, just go by the beach, go by the 

Rich Bennett 1:12:34
It's good 

Andrew Lewin 1:12:34
ocean. 

Rich Bennett 1:12:35
therapy. 

Andrew Lewin 1:12:35
Like, it's good therapy and just listen to the sounds around you, the quiet, the birds chirping, maybe a fish coming out of the water and you feel that little, you know, like coming 

Rich Bennett 1:12:47
listen, 

Andrew Lewin 1:12:48
up and grabbing like an insect or something like that. It's the best way to really understand how important the ocean is and how important a nature is. Because a lot of the times in this type of world that we live in it's very easy to run from thing to thing to thing during our day and not think about the ocean. We are a society here, especially here in North America that is based on convenience. And so we try to make everything move as fast as possible and we don't stop and just touch grass or touch water, you know, and I think it's really important that we connect with the ocean, so that we can understand how nature plays a role in our world and how good it is for you. It is so good for you. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:32
That's why it's one of the easiest sounds the fall asleep to. 

Andrew Lewin 1:13:36
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:37
Ocean sound. 

Andrew Lewin 1:13:38
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:39
Oh, 

Andrew Lewin 1:13:39
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:40
God. All right. So, Andrew, pick a number between one and one hundred. 

Andrew Lewin 1:13:46
Oh, I am going to go 66 for a great Canadian hockey player, Mary Limeo. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:53
back. Oh, why oh. 

Andrew Lewin 1:13:54
I'm going to go that's my Canadian in me. 

Rich Bennett 1:13:58
Oh, 

Andrew Lewin 1:13:58
Played for the Pixberg's penguins amazing. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:00
You know, what? OK, I have to tell you this 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:03
OK, 

Rich Bennett 1:14:03
story. because my daughter who she's 24, she's big into hockey now. 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:08
Hmm. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:09
Yes. And Canadians, Montreal Canadians are one of her favorite teams. The Hurricanes which I explained to her, I said, I don't understand why a hockey team would be called the Canes because that has nothing to do with ice. The other one, the other one I think the other team she likes now is, is it the Devils? 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:32
New Jersey Devils. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:33
Yeah. It might be and she may like the penguins now too. 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:37
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:37
But I told her I said now penguin makes sense for a team name because I'm just getting I get on her all time because I 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:44
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:14:44
Tall and I keep saying, yeah, go black Hawks. He's like, no, they suck. But I think she got into it because of the guys. Who's the one guy Seth Jarvis? 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:56
Seth Jarvis. There's a bunch of guys that like, 

Rich Bennett 1:14:58
yeah, I 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:58
Have 

Rich Bennett 1:14:58
know. 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:59
really 

Rich Bennett 1:14:59
on 

Andrew Lewin 1:14:59
caught the 

Rich Bennett 1:15:00
there's a bunch of brothers and all this. 

Andrew Lewin 1:15:02
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:04
I tried to watch it. I can't I can't find the puck. 

Andrew Lewin 1:15:08
that. You know what? That's a 

Rich Bennett 1:15:09
It 

Andrew Lewin 1:15:09
big 

Rich Bennett 1:15:09
goes to 

Andrew Lewin 1:15:09
problem for a lot of people. They came out one time. I think it was Fox came out one time with like they made the puck glow in the dark or glow. So it had like a blue thing and Canadians made fun of Americans so much for that. I'm like, are you serious? It's a black round thing on a white on a white surface. Like how can you not see it? This give it time take takes some time to like really watch it and you'll you'll get it eventually. What I recommend over the holiday season there's the world juniors. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:43
Yes. 

Andrew Lewin 1:15:43
And the world juniors is so fun because these these are the kids that are coming up. And they're there like going to make it. These are like the next NHLers from all over the world. And I'll tell you the US system has become powerful in terms of hockey. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:57
Oh, they're big in the hockey. 

Andrew Lewin 1:15:58
years. 

Rich Bennett 1:15:59
Oh, 

Andrew Lewin 1:15:59
Yeah. And like I'm not sure if you watched the First Nations Cup last year or the Four Nations Cup last year. It was the US Canada Finland and Sweden. Four teams. It was a tournament. Canada being the being the US out of it. But it was it got it got interesting. The first game they played in the round robin the first 10 seconds. There were three fights between Canada and the US. Two of them by the concert by the contract brothers on the US. And it made it 

Rich Bennett 1:16:24
that's 

Andrew Lewin 1:16:24
fun to watch the 

Rich Bennett 1:16:26
Yes, 

Andrew Lewin 1:16:26
stadium. yeah, and it made it fun to watch. It was it was great hockey because he got the best like and the thing with the thing with hockey players That's maybe different from NFL and NBA is that when they do like a country team 

Rich Bennett 1:16:41
Uh-huh 

Andrew Lewin 1:16:42
Because every country because the NHL is made up of all the different players from every country The competition is fierce when you go into the Olympics or you go into these like, you know, four nations cup That was the first time I was ever done, but when you start talking and there's pride on the line Like the NHL doesn't like giving up their players to their countries, but they don't have a choice These players were like I will like some of got injured like for the rest of the year And that's what the NHL is worried about the owners are worried about but these guys I will this is that their this is our military Like we will die for for this tournament and if we come in anywhere other than first That's it like you're the criticism flies like here in Canada. It's it's not good So it's a it's a it's a fun thing because it really looks at the pride of hockey and And like hockey players love to play hockey and and it's like it's kind of like the old school rules in a 

Rich Bennett 1:17:35
way Yes, 

Andrew Lewin 1:17:36
it's great hockey in terms of there's less fighting But you can't get away with doing dumb stuff You know what I mean? You say something wrong to a guy He will fight you and he will only pay five minutes of penalty time You know what I mean? 

Rich Bennett 1:17:53
yeah, that's That's the one great thing about hockey. I think it's the only sport out there Where you're gonna see fights all the time 

Andrew Lewin 1:18:01
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:18:02
and the penalties not that strict Yo, you look at baseball football you know these guys get heavy fines 

Andrew Lewin 1:18:09
yeah 

Rich Bennett 1:18:09
and Sometimes it's 

Andrew Lewin 1:18:11
oh yeah, yeah 

Rich Bennett 1:18:11
for the rest of the year 

Andrew Lewin 1:18:13
Why all I'll be honest though. I think like with football and and and basketball too If a fight breaks out, especially in football There's no way the rest can control that because not one-on-one. It's like 63 humongous people who are built muscle their entire lives on 63 right like it's a it's a riot because like how do you stop these massive human beings from from fighting each other whereas hockey The lines men are tough guys and they will like hold you down and cover you but there's a there's a Unwritten rule in terms of 

Rich Bennett 1:18:54
Yeah, 

Andrew Lewin 1:18:54
I'm not trying to kill you I'm just trying to beat you up a little bit and sometimes there's a great thing So I know we got to go, but there's a great story Wendell Clark used to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs in the 80s and 90s He was like your typical hockey player at the time like he'll go in the corners bumpy around a bunch He'll fight if he has to but he can also put the puck in the net So like we call it almost like your typical Canadian player like the grinder, 

Rich Bennett 1:19:18
right? 

Andrew Lewin 1:19:19
player. So he retired and so they had this other guy Marty Mcsorley who was also like both of them were used as enforcers on their team So back in the 80s and 90s Like Marty Mcsorley was on the Edmonton net oilers and that's where Wayne Grestki was on now Wayne Grestki is the pride and joy of hockey He is 

Rich Bennett 1:19:36
Oh, 

Andrew Lewin 1:19:36
like 

Rich Bennett 1:19:37
yeah 

Andrew Lewin 1:19:37
the Jesus of hockey, you know and and back then because he was so important You would have an enforcer on the team. So if anybody messed with Grestki anybody tried to hit him Eddie tried to slash him you even look at him in the wrong way Marty Mcsorley was in your face beating you up like that was it. That was the rule So so this these both Wendell Clark and Marty Mcsorley have fought each other have fought other people But Marty Mcsorley was on there. They all have respect for each other. This is what the great thing about hockey is Marty Mcsorley one time told the story where Wendell Clark was on the Quebec Nordics, which is now Colorado and Marty Mcsorley was on LA and the like L. A. was beating the Quebec Nordics like five to two so Wendell Clark goes on the ice, Marty Mcsorley is on the ice and they're talking like between the commercial break and and Wendell's like how's it going? Like how are you doing? How the kids are great? All these things just let you know I got we got to go like We got to drop the gloves. We're like yeah, no problem. Okay, he goes I understand five to two You're trying to get your team going. They just understood what the rules 

Rich Bennett 1:20:36
right 

Andrew Lewin 1:20:37
were There's there's no hard feelings we got to go so puck drops gloves go off. They fight each other They go out to the bar after and talk about it 

Rich Bennett 1:20:49
That's 

Andrew Lewin 1:20:49
hockey for you we're apt up into 

Rich Bennett 1:20:52
That is too funny, I forgot to oh no, you said 

Andrew Lewin 1:20:56
60 okay 66 for Mario the View yeah 

Rich Bennett 1:20:58
Hi, so this is the last one. This is a good question. Okay If you could witness any historical event first hand Which one would it be? 

Andrew Lewin 1:21:15
Any historical 

Die because there's so many 

Rich Bennett 1:21:24
Uh-huh 

Andrew Lewin 1:21:42
I think that would have been a cool experience, like to see that. That and I have a friend who was part of a team that got the first captured video of a live deep sea squid. 

Rich Bennett 1:22:00
That giant thing? 

Andrew Lewin 1:22:01
Yeah, yeah, because normally when we see it, it comes up to the surface as dead. But this one, they had a specific camera that they put in. Dr. Edith Winter was in charge of it. But Dr. Nathan Robinson was a guy in charge of looking at the camera. If you think about it, you have this camera down for days on end 

Rich Bennett 1:22:18
and it's 

Andrew Lewin 1:22:19
a specialized camera to look in the dark. So you've got hundreds of hours of recorded stuff that you have to go through. So sometimes you'll see some, like you know, we call it marine snow, right? So you'll see some bioluminous stuff coming, but it's boring. It's just black. And then think about it, at some point during that time, during those hours and hours and hours, it's these days of you looking at this video, probably in fast forward and stuff. You come across like a little sight, you're like, what the hell's that? You rewind and then you look and it's a deep sea squid, like a giant squid. Or a colossal squid. And you see the eyes and it actually comes up to the camera and it like grabs it to like, you know, fiddle around like what is this in the deep sea. It's bright. It's got a color on to it. It had like something to attract it. Is it food? No. OK cool. And then it just disappears. But that's like one of the first, I think it's like they've gotten it twice, like a different in different parts of the world, one in Japan. And one actually I think was in the Gulf of Mexico. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:19
Wow. 

Andrew Lewin 1:23:19
And it was like really cool to see that. So I would love to have been part of that team to be able to see that. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:25
Now I'm gonna have to 

Andrew Lewin 1:23:26
look for that video. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:27
Although I'm not going to watch hundreds of 

Andrew Lewin 1:23:29
it. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:29
hours of 

Andrew Lewin 1:23:29
No, no, this one is just you'll just see the clip. There is a clip out there. I'll send it to you. There's a clip out there. It's pretty cool. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:34
Wow. That's pretty wild. 

Andrew Lewin 1:23:36
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:23:36
Well, Andrew, I want to thank you so much. Those of you listening, make sure that you go and listen to the podcast. And when you do two things. Number one, subscribe to it. And leave some comments. My podcast is one of the things we love is to hear from you listeners. And we'll even take ideas. I may even have you on the show. You never know. Andrew, thanks a lot, barely take care of it. 

Andrew Lewin 1:24:01
Thank you, Rich, had a great time. Appreciate it. 

Rich Bennett 1:24:04
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love it. If you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with Rich Bennett dot com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care, be kind and keep the conversation's going. You know, it takes a lot to put a podcast together and my sponsor's helped add a lot, but I also have some supporters that actually help me when it comes to the editing software, the hosting and so forth. There's a lot that goes into putting this together. So I want to thank them and if you can please please visit their websites, visit their businesses, support them, however you can. So please visit the following full circle boards, nobody does charcuterie like full circle boards, visit them at full circle boards dot com. Sincerely, Sincerely You can seriously, so your photography live in the moment. They'll capture it visit them at sincerely so your dot com the job at the line's club serving the community since 1965. Visit them at joppetown lines club dot org. Don't forget the e at the end of job at town because they're extraordinary.