Branding in the Identity Age with Jason Clark

Wendy & Rich 0:00
Hey everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we've shared laughs, tears, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Harford County Living presents Conversations with Rich Bennett. 

No no no! 

Rich Bennett 1:00
Today I'm sitting down with Jason Clark, the chief marketing officer at Villa Studio, a creative agency that's been helping mission-driven organizations, nonprofits, and public institutions bring their brands to life for over 25 years. With more than two decades of experience in the creative industry, Jason has guided organizations through everything from rebrands to multi-channel campaigns. Always with the goal of aligning teams, building trust, and sparking meaningful change. Along the way, he's earned Gold Addy Awards, AIGA, Louisville's Best of Branding, and even their only Visionary Award. But Jason's story is about more than awards and campaigns. It's about creativity with a purpose. He's learned what it takes to lead through change, to turn challenges into lessons, and to use brand-building as a way to strengthen communities. And I'm really looking forward to this because when I get down to Kentucky where he's at, he's going to take me on the bourbon trails. Has it gone Jason? 

Jason Clark 2:10
Let's go to those bourbon tours. I mean, I've got 

Rich Bennett 2:13
least 

Jason Clark 2:13
at that you need to see. 

Rich Bennett 2:15
All right, I've never started the podcast with this question. I believe it or not. Well, it's a two-part question. Number one, are you a bourbon drinker? And number two, is so what's what's one of your favorite bourbons that everybody should taste? 

Jason Clark 2:32
Right. So living in Louisville, I think you have to be a bourbon drinker. Your card gets revoked as 

Rich Bennett 2:39
you're 

Jason Clark 2:39
a-- 

Rich Bennett 2:40
an outcast, right? 

Jason Clark 2:42
So yes, every now and then we get bored and we go off on tangents. I'm also a really big fan of absence so much so that I've been able to find some pre-prohibition absence from the early 1900s that's been 

Rich Bennett 2:56
really 

Jason Clark 2:57
freaking phenomenal. So yes, but that's an aside. We'll start with your answering your question first. Favorite bourbon is an aged rye. So probably not super brand specific but some really good ones, angels envy rye, old pepper, is a good, probably just mid shelf. 

Rich Bennett 3:23
Right, 

Jason Clark 3:23
Rye that's really good for old fashions and whatnot. Sassarac rye, obviously, is a great one. And then you get into the higher tier, really collectible ones. And the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection, Sassarac 18-year-old, is the best juice on the planet, 

Rich Bennett 3:40
really? 

Jason Clark 3:41
absolutely. But unless you've got $2, 000 to find a bottle, you're never going to taste it. 

Rich Bennett 3:46
Yeah, 

Jason Clark 3:47
I'd just 

Rich Bennett 3:48
spend $2, 000 on a bottle. I'd be afraid to open that thing. 

Jason Clark 3:52
Well, if you want to hear a story, we actually, back before the bourbon rush that's happened in the last 10 years, 

Rich Bennett 4:00
Right. 

Jason Clark 4:00
I actually found a bottle of Sassarac 18-year-old rye, Buffalo Trace Antique Collection from a liquor store. We got on their waiting list and they called us and sent it to us. And my father-in-law came to town that Thanksgiving and he loves bourbon. He lives in Nashville. We're like, you got to taste this and we gave him a pour. And the next morning we go and we wake up and we look in our liquor cabinet. And there's like, you know, probably 

Rich Bennett 4:34
very little. 

Jason Clark 4:35
20% of the bottle left and that man drank the whole bottle and we were like, "Buddy, that was meant to like impress you and like-- we were not meant to drink that whole damn bottle." 

Rich Bennett 4:46
Wow! 

Jason Clark 4:47
So now he gets one or two tastes from the top shelf when he-- 

then we go to the middle shelf. 

Rich Bennett 4:54
I didn't even realize that was out there. I'm going to have to look for-- And I mean, I didn't know what was Angel's N-V-Rye. 

Jason Clark 5:05
Angel's N-V-Rye, it's really good. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 5:06
I love angels envy bourbon I didn't know they had a ride. 

Jason Clark 5:11
Yeah, yeah, well, I don't know how hard you know because I live in Louisville all the bourbons 

Rich Bennett 5:16
You 

Jason Clark 5:16
are 

Rich Bennett 5:16
get everything right 

Jason Clark 5:18
exactly so I don't know what their distribution looks like so holler at me 

Rich Bennett 5:21
what 

Jason Clark 5:21
and I'll uh well maybe we'll mail 

Rich Bennett 5:23
yeah. 

Jason Clark 5:23
you a 

Rich Bennett 5:23
All right, 

Jason Clark 5:24
a bottle. 

Rich Bennett 5:25
So were you guys devastated down there when the Buffalo trace distillery flooded out. 

Jason Clark 5:31
Not devastated because they've just expanded their um Rick houses. They did a 

Rich Bennett 5:36
oh. 

Jason Clark 5:37
Billion plus expansion over the last few years so um 

Rich Bennett 5:41
wow. 

Jason Clark 5:41
Yeah, I don't think you know obviously it's terrible and the Buffalo trace campus is one of the best ever. It's a 

Rich Bennett 5:48
Right. 

Jason Clark 5:48
great tour. But they're insured they'll be all right um and you know I honestly like lately there's been a little bit of a decline in the popularity of bourbon because it's everywhere now so I think it'll be fine. 

Rich Bennett 6:06
Oh yeah, because I mean you have you have what what do they say uh often imitate it never duplicated. so you have a lot of the imitators out there 

Jason Clark 6:18
Right, 

Rich Bennett 6:19
but like that thing I that bottle I showed you or that brand I told you about before we started I have no idea how's going to taste it may taste good but I think what sells it is the bottle and the and the poor 

Jason Clark 6:31
time 

Rich Bennett 6:31
on the 

Jason Clark 6:32
right nothing beats a good gimmick. 

Rich Bennett 6:34
Yeah, and 

Jason Clark 6:35
that's a marketing tactic, let me we can talk about marketing 

Rich Bennett 6:38
well there we Wow. Isn't that funny how that blends in. 

Jason Clark 6:41
absolutely 

Rich Bennett 6:42
right. Alright 

Jason Clark 6:44
differentiation 

Rich Bennett 6:45
I want to talk about marketing but I want first I want to find out about you. How 

Jason Clark 6:51
okay 

Rich Bennett 6:52
when you are in school was that your focus? Did you always want to do marketing 

Jason Clark 6:57
So I start my sophomore year of high school uh this was the 80s mind you so 

Rich Bennett 7:04
right? 

Jason Clark 7:04
I was um I was a metalhead 

Rich Bennett 7:09
alright yeah 

Jason Clark 7:09
so I would I would get to my classes about you know early and I would just draw heavy metal logos on the chalkboard all the time. And my psychology teacher she was like Jason you should get in a graphic arts had no audio graphic arts was. 

And there was a vocational program and RIP vocational programs because this made my career my junior year of high school I went to a graphic arts vocational program I learned how to run a printing press. This was before the age of the Macintosh so I learned how to do layout on a light table and make the plates in the camera room and put 

Rich Bennett 7:48
press 

Jason Clark 7:49
them on the 

Rich Bennett 7:49
real work. 

Jason Clark 7:50
Yeah it was a real craft and now people want that kind of thing again because it's so rare and tactile but my so my junior year I did that graphic arts program my senior year I was top of my class in high school so the the kind of a reward for that is you got a co-op position at one of the colleges in town. And so my senior year of high school in the afternoons I left and I worked in the print shop of Belumman college now university and haven't stopped since so it's been I don't know almost 35 years. 

Rich Bennett 8:28
Wow 

Jason Clark 8:29
yeah my wife gets mad because I've never worked in a restaurant and that's like my dream job when I retire 

Rich Bennett 8:35
but working a restaurant 

Jason Clark 8:36
oh yeah I love food. 

Rich Bennett 8:39
Yeah 

Jason Clark 8:39
and 

Rich Bennett 8:39
yeah. 

Jason Clark 8:40
she's just like you'll hate it you're gonna hate it you've been 

Rich Bennett 8:42
Oh 

Jason Clark 8:42
spoiled your whole career. 

Rich Bennett 8:44
Oh my God I talked to a lot of chefs because I that I always wanted to be a chef I 

Jason Clark 8:50
yeah 

Rich Bennett 8:51
a culinary school I'm glad I didn't now because some of these guys I talked to the headaches that 

Jason Clark 8:58
yeah 

Rich Bennett 8:58
are the long hours and then if you and your restaurant it's even worse. 

Jason Clark 9:02
Right yeah that's why everybody that tell that there's like oh Jason bless your heart 

Rich Bennett 9:06
yeah so you know stick with what you're doing just do all the branding for 

Jason Clark 9:11
the restaurants you'll be alright yes. 

Rich Bennett 9:13
Alright and I gotta ask this now too because I graduate 81 I was a big metalhead as well who's one of your favorites 

Jason Clark 9:23
Um I my wife hates this but I will always listen to Slayer 

Rich Bennett 9:29
I had 

Jason Clark 9:31
always. 

Rich Bennett 9:31
a feeling I was I had a feeling when you mentioned graphics I'm like the first thing you put in my head I said but he was drawing the Slayer logo on the chalkboard. 

Jason Clark 9:38
Absolutely yeah yeah it's um 

Rich Bennett 9:41
oh man 

Jason Clark 9:42
Yeah and you know I'm pretty open-minded about music so I'll listen to 

Rich Bennett 9:46
yeah 

Jason Clark 9:47
anything but I'm not very, I haven't kept up metal is not my thing anymore so you know I'll 

Rich Bennett 9:54
right 

Jason Clark 9:54
have a friend that's still metal and be like have you heard of that new cattle mutilation album and I'm like I'm not interested that's I'm not 17 anymore I'm not 

Rich Bennett 10:05
now. 

Jason Clark 10:05
angry at the world. 

Rich Bennett 10:07
Funny how our tasting music changes over the years because I remember growing like new wave you know during all of that stuff I could not stand Tom's the twins all that and now if it comes on the radio I can actually sit there 

Jason Clark 10:22
You dig in 

Rich Bennett 10:22
to it before I would turn it off 

Jason Clark 10:25
Which 

Rich Bennett 10:26
is weird and one of the like some of the bands I really hate it was like queen I couldn't stand queen. 

Jason Clark 10:32
Oh they're incredible. Yeah 

Rich Bennett 10:33
They are you learned and love them as you get oh you appreciate it more 

Jason Clark 10:37
Well, I think it's an identity thing like when you're young Yeah 

Rich Bennett 10:40
You 

Jason Clark 10:40
You need to identify with something right like you need to feel like you're a part of something So music especially an hour era was that thing that defined you right um Because I would like I would piss off my middle friends even back then and I would like you know put on Whitney Houston in the car and and you What a dance with some but and they get so mad at me. It's like you're a sellout Jason Whatever 

Rich Bennett 11:08
You look you were windy rolling before Rick Rollin 

No doubt oh man. Yeah, I think I think they would have done the same thing. They would have pushed me out of the car if I tried that 

Jason Clark 11:21
well that's kind of my point. I'm 

Rich Bennett 11:23
Yeah, 

Jason Clark 11:23
an old school troll that way. I probably oh 

Rich Bennett 11:27
So with the branding and you've been in it for a while now Back in the day when you first started What's one of the biggest Most successful campaigns that you remember uh and how would it have looked today with the changes in marketing and everything 

Jason Clark 11:47
Doing 

Rich Bennett 11:47
especially now that from printing press the digital 

Jason Clark 11:50
Work that I'd actually worked on 

Rich Bennett 11:53
yeah. 

Jason Clark 11:54
Sure Um This is uh, I guess this is an interesting one. It's the first one that comes to mind um, I worked at an agency and at the time I was uh, they called me the flashmaster because flash was a big component of the web and 

Rich Bennett 12:09
Right 

Jason Clark 12:11
I got really into scripting so like what we're designed and 

Programming come in right you can animate things you can do a lot that you you had never been able to do before so at the agency I worked for they called me the flashmaster and 

one of our big clients was GE appliances and What we initiated a program that essentially um every year they would fly in all their area sales managers To appliance park here in Louisville and have a conference about all the new products where it coming out Product training sales training all of that stuff so Before streaming video came we we essentially Did what we called it we called it the E launch program so they okay 

Rich Bennett 12:58
Right 

Jason Clark 12:59
developed a series of CD ROMs and video training um using flash and director neither of which really exist anymore 

Rich Bennett 13:08
We 

Jason Clark 13:08
um 

And essentially made like a set of four to six CD ROMs that we sent to area sales managers around the world for GE appliances saved them Millions and millions of dollars in the fees that would have that it used to cost to fly everybody into a wow park and do that and That just wouldn't exist anymore right like 

Rich Bennett 13:31
no 

Jason Clark 13:31
you yet you could just distribute that on the web is you know on YouTube now So, you know, it was probably millions of dollars worth of work for us as an agency That is just not something you wouldn't need to do anymore 

Rich Bennett 13:46
Do you think it's from what you're seeing today? And again, I'm going I'm thinking back when you were when you started with the printing press Do you think the artistic value has gone away 

Jason Clark 13:59
No absolutely not no of you're talking about kind of the craft of design 

Rich Bennett 14:04
Yeah, 

Jason Clark 14:04
yeah, sure No, there's there's a whole scene. I mean so you go even to like old school things like Letterpress and screen printing those I mean those those have really seen a resurgence It's kind of like the vinyl resurgence right like people that really love music and musicians by a vinyl now 

Rich Bennett 14:23
Sounds better 

Jason Clark 14:24
Yeah, we uh, you know back to bourbon um I actually bought a barrel of bourbon last year and uh, branded 

Rich Bennett 14:33
it barrel. 

Jason Clark 14:35
Uh, a barrel, I, this is the second time I've bought a barrel, so. Um, but we- we did a series of three labels for it. Um, 

Rich Bennett 14:44
oh, okay. 

Jason Clark 14:45
And the labels I designed and- and I got printed at a letterpress shop that's run by a friend of mine, just because, like, I wanted it to have a feel to it. 

Rich Bennett 14:53
Right. 

Jason Clark 14:54
And, you know, there is- there's an elevation now that if you create something, and if there is some kind of craft put to it, it's noticeable, you know? That's- that's also gets- it gets into the gimmicks that we'll probably get to. Um, like, what can you do to differentiate? And on a- on a value level, on a brand perception level, that's still really important. 

Rich Bennett 15:19
make- 

Jason Clark 15:19
Um, on the digital level, it's gotten more- and the kids are better at this than we are, but they're doing this with real- style videos, like, portrait, real- uh, Instagram, TikToks, like, the video quality of people doing things with phones is insane. And you, you know, I don't like scroll on the feeds, but you have to give credit to those young people that are doing work in that area that has never been done before. So there is- there will always be craft. 

Rich Bennett 15:54
I- I've never forget I had a young, um, filmmaker on not too long ago. And he was- he was talking about how you can use your phones and everything, and just how amazing it is, but one of the things that he wants to do, he says- and he may have already done, I have to look. He wanted to do a short film in 16-millimeter film. So it's just sort of like what you see Quentin Tarantino do a lot. 

Jason Clark 16:20
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:21
He says just something about that grainy- 

Jason Clark 16:26
you can't- yeah, you can't replicate it, absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 16:29
It's like- that would be pretty- cause I love the Quentin Tarantino films anyways. And I think it might be something with that the way- I don't know. Who knows? Alright, so- so look it back. What do you think advertising as an industry got right in the past? And what do you think it often got wrong? 

Jason Clark 16:51
Um, in the mean, in the past it was easier but more expensive. So you had three television channels, you had a major newspaper in every city, you had magazines, you had billboards. So one of the that it had to get right there was the art and copy. So 

Rich Bennett 17:11
past, I 

Jason Clark 17:11
they did that right and there's so many campaigns that you can think about going back, you know, into the, I mean, even the early 1900s that are just super interesting. That's what they got right. The problem now is there's a volume factor. There's like our attention spans can't dwell on that, you know, 

Rich Bennett 17:33
yeah. 

Jason Clark 17:36
What was the, the Apple campaign? Think different. So that's- that was a campaign that would probably be very hard to do today because you have to- like, you have to just sit on an image, you've got two words and a, you know, an outline of an apple and that is something you have to sit down and like, it has to kind of see your end of your brain for a couple of seconds before you get it. And 

Rich Bennett 18:05
yeah. 

Jason Clark 18:05
I just- I'm just not sure that that would play in today's world because there's, you know, A, you see video, you know, if you- if anybody that scrolls Instagram sees like you see an ad as you're scrolling, right? All the and you have to catch people like in that first point two seconds with some kind of video really. So you can't make them stop on that image with think different and associated, fairly abstractly to your product. I- I just don't think that could happen today. 

Rich Bennett 18:38
Now, I- and I always think back, I believe it was a Susu- when they first came here before Jo-U Susu. They're billboards. I- I'm pretty sure it was in. But I remember driving down. I think it was I-95 and I saw billboard and he just said I. It's like okay. And then I think it was like a couple weeks later, I-s. So throughout the weeks, they finally just spelled out the Susu. And I think it was like, some of that at the end is a Susu is here or something. But everybody's like, it's like, what the hell is a Susu? 

Jason Clark 19:12
Right. 

Rich Bennett 19:13
But it worked. 

Jason Clark 19:14
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 19:14
Not as good as Jo Susu, because Jo Susu was like, who's the mayhem guy now? 

For the- I can't even think about it. For the commercials, for- 

Ah crap it was. All right. I'll draw a blank on that one. How has community trust in institutions, nonprofits, and brands changed since you first started working in the field? 

Jason Clark 19:43
It used to be one way communication and now it has to go in both directions. So, there are, and we've done a lot of work in the nonprofit and kind of organization space, if you aren't listening to and being active with your constituency, you will fail. And that used to be, like, PR communications and marketing used to be separate things. Like, 

Rich Bennett 20:11
[BLANK_AUDIO] 

Jason Clark 20:11
advertising and marketing used to be one way. And so, if you're not actively engaging with your constituents in some way, whether that's just responding to them on social media or having some kind of town hall situation, or you know, there's a feedback loop that is required now that wasn't necessarily always required, because there is so much that is competing for your attention span in your dollars. So, it's rare that somebody is going to, you know, become a member of an institution and let that credit card payment renew every year without some type of acknowledgement that, yes, you are one of us, and yes, your feedback is valuable, and yes, we want to hear what you have to say. 

Rich Bennett 21:02
Yeah. Do you think it's important, especially for the nonprofits, aren't even small businesses? Do you think it's important that, I mean, we know a logo is important, but it takes time for that logo to be recognized. I mean, everybody knows the Coca-Cola logo Pepsi and all of them, but do you think it's very important for the head of a company, nonprofit, or whatever, to put their face out there as well? 

Jason Clark 21:32
Oh, yeah. Yeah, you have to. I mean, this is, 

We just passed the information age. There is 

Rich Bennett 21:41
right. 

Jason Clark 21:41
probably an argument to be said that we are now in the identity 

era. 

Rich Bennett 21:49
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 21:49
Instead of the information age, this is the identity age, because you see this in, unfortunately, politics, you see this with brands, you see this everywhere, is people like to be defined by the things that they spend money on or pay attention to. So, honestly, that is that is something that we talk about when we're rebranding an organization, is you need to give them something to hold onto that they feel like is theirs, and they feel like is true and meaningful. So there was a we just did a rebrand for a forest in our Baritum in Kentucky here called Bernheim, and they had been apparently trying to change their logo for 40 years because it was very basic and didn't really define them, and we came up with this beautiful 

new logo that was so authentic to who they were and what they represent that it was impossible for their board not to approve it. And I can send you, after this I can send you a link if you want to, but it is this just glorious image that could be a leaf, it could be a tree, it could be a series of paths, that also kind of looks like stained glass. So there is a reverence. 

Rich Bennett 23:12
Wow. 

Jason Clark 23:12
There's a reverence to the logo. There's so there's a few different meanings that are kind of baked into it, and it 

Rich Bennett 23:18
Right. 

Jason Clark 23:18
is something like, if you've been to Bernheim forest and you've hiked on their trails and you've seen the art that they put out there, you will understand that connection between the place and the brand. 

Rich Bennett 23:32
Yeah, I'm looking at the logo now. I like that. 

Jason Clark 23:35
Right, and it was, you know, it and there was a whole brand strategy process to get to there. You don't just set a designer loose and say, you know, design something meaningful for this organization. It took months 

Rich Bennett 23:48
Right. 

Jason Clark 23:49
to get there. But once we landed on it, it was obvious. This is it. Every other idea that we were pursuing was, you know, four or five tiers under what this one was. This is obviously what we need to do. 

Rich Bennett 24:03
I want to go to this forest now. I'm looking at it. I'll be there. That's uh, 

Jason Clark 24:07
we win. 

Rich Bennett 24:08
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 24:09
Visionary award deserved. 

Rich Bennett 24:11
I would have never heard of it in a CEO. I went to yours. Well, unless you said something, but I'm also on your website too. So yeah, that is sharp. I like that though. 

Jason Clark 24:22
Thank you. And yeah, again, like if you if you in still meaning deeper into something, it will resonate on even if it's not overt even like even on like a subconscious level, it should work somehow. And it should be able to last, you know, 10 or 20 years. 

Rich Bennett 24:41
Storytelling is very important as well, isn't it? 

Jason Clark 24:44
Yeah, yeah, and that's, uhm, the brand guide for them, it, it walks you through that story. Again, the logo is just one part of it. A brand is an abstract perception of something, right? So if you don't have all those pieces and parts and you can't say how and why then it's pro, it might not last that long. 

Rich Bennett 25:06
Alright, this is, this may be, well, no, it's probably not a hard question for you, but it, it'll be something that a lot of people definitely need to listen to, uh, with this one, uh, cause with social media and AI, and 

Jason Clark 25:22
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 25:24
Constant digital noise. What do you see as the biggest challenge for brands trying to connect with people right now? 

Jason Clark 25:33
Yeah, it's the noise. It's, it's that simple. I mean, unless you have a really active constituency or a team, you just have to throw money at it, and I hate that. There is, I mean, even on, you know, the social media isn't social media anymore. It's algorithmic media. 

Rich Bennett 25:53
Yes, 

Jason Clark 25:54
right? Like you're scrolling your feeds and it's no longer what your friends and who you follow are posting that day and, you know, it's, it's, you know, what does Instagram think is going to keep you on Instagram longer, so it's weird AMSR, it's, uh, it's all these other things. So they, unless you spend money on their ad platforms, you might not cut through. So that's, that's an unfortunate part of this era that I'm really unhappy with, and I hope takes it. I hope people take control of their attention span. Soon. 

Rich Bennett 26:31
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 26:32
I hope they realize what these big social media companies are doing because it's manipulative and it's not helpful for society at large. 

Rich Bennett 26:42
Yeah, and they're always trying to change it. Who was it? I was watching. It may be Gary Vee, even said that social media is not so it's, it's engagement. 

Jason Clark 26:52
Right. 

Rich Bennett 26:53
That's what, that's the important thing is engagement because he's, and a lot of it has to do with the algorithms. You may not even follow somebody, but you're constantly seeing their feed all the time. 

Jason Clark 27:04
Right. 

Rich Bennett 27:04
And it's like, well, I don't want to see that. Well, 

Jason Clark 27:08
So they're either paying the 

Rich Bennett 27:11
yeah. 

Jason Clark 27:11
social media company for it. So you have to see that or the algorithm thinks that you want to see it even though you say you don't. And unless you block that account, you, you might keep seeing it. 

Rich Bennett 27:24
Yeah. And the funny thing is I just had somebody on yesterday. And of course, I went to their website before they came on and I went upstairs. I was, I was sitting down watching something before they even came on and all of a sudden, guess what? There was a commercial for their company. I'm like, I 

Jason Clark 27:46
right. 

Rich Bennett 27:46
just looked at what's like damn. 

Jason Clark 27:49
Right. 

Rich Bennett 27:49
It's scary. 

Jason Clark 27:51
Yeah, there is, there is also 

Rich Bennett 27:53
brother is watching man. 

Jason Clark 27:55
there are data brokers that are 

Rich Bennett 27:57
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 27:57
doing 

Rich Bennett 27:58
Well, 

Jason Clark 27:58
things with your data that like even I don't have access to because it's so sneaky and it's so underground, and they are making millions and millions and millions of dollars by creating a profile of you in a few different places and being able to pick from that profile to suddenly manipulate you or so you adds or so adds to you. 

And it's it's not necessarily for the best. It is 

Rich Bennett 28:27
now 

Jason Clark 28:27
like I'm and again, I don't want this to get too negative, but it is the thing I worry about the most because it's the thing that needs regulated right now in the ever. 

Rich Bennett 28:36
Oh, yeah. 

Jason Clark 28:37
History. 

Rich Bennett 28:38
Yeah, and I look in the head. And I'm glad we're talking about this right now, because this is kind of scary too. Well, to some people it's scary some maybe not, but what role do you think artificial intelligence and emergent tech will actually play in shaping the future of advertising and branding. I mean, we're seeing it now in a way. 

Jason Clark 29:04
Yeah. I mean, somebody like Mark so on the on the very corporate big money side marks somebody like Mark Zuckerberg met a Facebook would say is all you have to do is have a product and just tell me you want to sell that product and how much money you want to spend an AI will generate all the ads or the copy. You don't have to do anything but give us money. 

Rich Bennett 29:26
Right, 

Jason Clark 29:26
I think we're decades away from that, if it even ever happens. 

Rich Bennett 29:30
I hope it in a way, I hope it doesn't. 

Jason Clark 29:32
Right. Yeah, I absolutely don't think it will happen or 

Rich Bennett 29:36
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 29:36
can happen, but that's kind of the corporate visionary future situation with 

Rich Bennett 29:43
advertising. Right. 

Jason Clark 29:53
is very useful in the agency space right now. Um, but it's more about making our work more effective than replacing people or processes. It's more of a, what we call a forced multiplier. 

This organization, there is a level of, if you're not using AI, you are probably not doing your clients' service because you're not being as efficient or, um, you know, an AI can, you can ask an AI like, what am I not considering with this batch of work that I've just done. 

Rich Bennett 30:35
Right. 

Jason Clark 30:36
And you can ask a person that and they've got their own anecdotes and experience to draw from but if you ask an AI of that it's got the whole, it's got exponentially more data to draw from. So, 

Rich Bennett 30:49
right. 

Jason Clark 30:51
So, again, like I think as a, as an assistant, it will continue to be useful. And honestly, it's on the regulators and us as a society to decide how far we want to let that. Put its, get its fingers into our lives into our pocket books and into our ethics even. So 

Rich Bennett 31:14
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 31:14
that's an important conversation to continue to have. And I, like, I need people to know that they have agency here. The lower case A agency, you can decide that you don't want to be your, you don't want your opinions to be shaped by what you're scrolling. 

Rich Bennett 31:35
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, I use AI for the podcast, for 

Jason Clark 31:42
show. 

Rich Bennett 31:42
the 

Jason Clark 31:42
Sure. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 31:43
Yeah, I mean, it just, it cuts down my work, where is eight hours is now one hour job. I mean, now as far as doing a podcast recording with AI. Now, now, and I've heard some of them do that. I actually did one episode and I made it clear this is not me. AI is taken over and it was scary as hell. 

Jason Clark 32:10
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 32:10
It didn't sound like me. Thank God. I mean, it didn't have that bottom more accent. You're You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Jason Clark 33:20
I mean, honestly, now that I am one of the dinosaurs. So when I was when you know, I'm headed towards my mid fifties and 

Rich Bennett 33:30
right 

Jason Clark 33:30
when I was in my twenties, I looked at people that are my age now. I'd be like, Oh, I got this. I can do this. You know, because they can't like that generation had such a level of hubris that they'd you know, there were a couple, you know, there's at least one agency owner here in town that said digital was a fad, you know, it's like, we're not going to get into that because it's a fad. 

Rich Bennett 33:54
Right. 

Jason Clark 33:55
So honestly, I'm excited. Like, what are other, what are the kids going to do to make our lives interesting? You know, like, I'm, you know, I still like to think that I'm an innovator and I can come up with new ideas and whatnot. But like, again, back to what the kids are doing on things like TikTok and Instagram reels and with video. I'm not that guy. I've never been on TikTok. I don't intend to be. So, I honestly, I want to see what you all are going to come up with that is interesting, that is engaging, that helps people take their agency back, that excites people, you know? Like, you should, like, I want to be a follower now, you tell me what we should be doing, and that's what excites me, because if I had the hubris of some of the people that I'd needed to hire me early in my career, I'd like, I'm not as like, I, that just sounds like a miserable existence to think 

Rich Bennett 34:54
that, uh-huh. 

Jason Clark 34:55
Have it all figured out, you know? 

Rich Bennett 34:58
With marketing and the, you know, with cell phones and talking about these influencers and everything, and I saw this into DJ field. Thank God I retired from doing that. 

Jason Clark 35:10
You got the voice for it though. 

Rich Bennett 35:12
Oh, look where we're watching. But, but, you know, as a mobile DJ, and when streaming audio came along, it killed us because. 

Jason Clark 35:23
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 35:24
There were DJs out there that thought they were DJ because they could stream the music. Well, number one, it's illegal to charge anybody if you're streaming the music, but they were, I mean, talked about cutthroat, you know, charges $75 to do a gig or $75 and that, which is cheap as hell. Do you see or think that some businesses and organizations are hurting themselves because there are so many people coming up that think they are a social media marketer, or website designer or pro in this because. You know, even though they never went to school with it, they just think they know what they're doing. And I've seen, I mean, I've seen it happen here where you hurt businesses. Are you understanding 

Jason Clark 36:11
doing? 

Rich Bennett 36:11
what 

Jason Clark 36:11
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 36:12
I'm 

Jason Clark 36:12
no, I hear you. So the analogy from when I was coming up in my career, was that it was so easy to pirate software, 

Rich Bennett 36:24
yeah, 

Jason Clark 36:25
thus call yourself a designer. So, before the comm crash, like 1998, 99 or so. There were, there were so many people that called themselves a graphic designer. Because again, you can download Photoshop and you can make graphics. 

Rich Bennett 36:45
Right, 

Jason Clark 36:46
those people never learned the fundamentals. They never learned learned how to attach that to things like business goals and strategy so that when essentially an economy crash kind of shook out all the jobs and everything, they had to find something else to do because they were the least qualified to be in that field. 

Rich Bennett 37:07
Right. 

Jason Clark 37:07
People that were qualified to be in that field and have the training or the intuition or whatnot to do it. The right way into, you know, understand process and structure of the kind of work that you were doing, they were fine. I was fine. So I think the same thing with how easy it is to do marketing now. You're gonna have the innovators that are like, again, there's always new technologies and those people that are constantly experimenting. I mean, that people that like figure out the YouTube algorithm. I've never watched a Mr. Beast video before, but that apparently that person and his team have been so just laser focused on what the algorithm is and how to get their content elevated in that algorithm. Unless you have that level of focus with something new, you have to know the fundamentals. You have to know strategy and structure, like just being good at one thing is probably not going to get you that far. So I would say companies need to continue to focus on putting out a good quality product that is worthy of marketing. Marketers need to either continue to focus on the fundamentals and strategy or get really good at something very, very niche. 

Rich Bennett 38:31
Right. 

Jason Clark 38:31
You know like SEO companies like I've dabbled in SEO because I have to but like there are companies and now that that just do SEO and they'll charge you $50, 000 a month to keep you on the top of the Google search. So the like I don't think most of those people were educated in the universities for that they had to have that again that laser micro focus. So it's you have to pick one or the other or you have to find another job 

Rich Bennett 39:01
And the other thing is too. And I'm glad you mentioned SEO. I think SEO may soon be a thing of the past in a way because you 

Jason Clark 39:10
now. 

Rich Bennett 39:10
do it. Well, in a way because you do a Google search, remember the old days of Google you did a Google search you would see the ads on the side. 

Jason Clark 39:25
It's 

Rich Bennett 39:26
terrible. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so you're not seeing all the links to the websites of everything right away. Right. It's changing. 

The other thing is I forget the name of it. It's not SEO, but it helps with voice like voice activated devices like Lexi and all that. But I forget what they call that, but you're seeing that's coming or making a big headway too, because even TVs. you know, you could talk into the remote and it'll pull up something for you. 

Jason Clark 40:03
Right. Right. 

Rich Bennett 40:05
You know, so it, damn, man this stuff is 

Jason Clark 40:09
haha. 

Rich Bennett 40:09
changing, like, 

Jason Clark 40:10
Well, again, back, yeah, back, back to the fundamentals though. 

Rich Bennett 40:16
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 40:17
SEO only requires you to have really well structured content. 

Rich Bennett 40:25
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 40:25
And to have really good 

Rich Bennett 40:27
content. 

Jason Clark 40:28
So that is content that educates or inspires or has a point of view or perspective. And again, that's a fundamental. That's if you want to cut through like, you know, people ask us about GEO now, which is generated 

Rich Bennett 40:43
right 

Jason Clark 40:44
in general optimization. Like how do I show up in chat GBT if somebody asked for the best. 

Rich Bennett 40:49
Maybe that's what I was thinking about. 

Jason Clark 40:50
It might be. But again, like the there has been no qualitative data that we have seen yet that shows that you should be doing much different. You 

Rich Bennett 41:02
Right. 

Jason Clark 41:02
need to be putting content out there. You need to be either educating your audience, inspiring them, or you know, that you have to think of yourself as having an audience. So what 

Rich Bennett 41:14
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 41:15
do you do? And it doesn't like you're putting things out into the world. The search engines and the LLMs are surfacing them for you. So you either give up because it's too complicated. Or you do your thing. And if you want to stay in business, you've got to do your thing. We've got a really big B2B client that's got, you know, it's in an industry that is not sexy. It's B2B industrial style offerings. But they've got a YouTube channel with 50,000 followers. They've got, you know, essentially a university for what they offer. And they're killing it. They are absolutely killing it. And, you know, we're, we're essentially in a support role for them because they're, their content machine is so darn good. And people said, you know, I've gotten calls that like I want to be as good as these people are. And I'm like, okay, can you invest in a YouTube person? Can you invest in a writer? Can you invest in a CMO? Because internally, you're going to need probably, I don't know, 500 to 600,000 dollars a year worth of internal HR resources, people. And unless you want to pay us double or triple that of an agency rates, right? Like just being honest. So like, 

Rich Bennett 42:42
yeah, 

Jason Clark 42:42
to be on top, if you want to be, you know, into the nine figures size business, you have to invest. You have to invest in that content and that marketing. And if you don't, you're really just hoping that you'll grow. 

Rich Bennett 42:58
Alright, I have to ask you this, um, because I'm going back to the beginning here. We were talking about 

Jason Clark 43:07
bourbon. Yeah. And 

Rich Bennett 43:09
the thing is, as you know, when you're pouring bourbon, if you want to chill, you know, you want, you want that nice, clear ice cube in there. 

Jason Clark 43:24
All right. Tell 

Rich Bennett 43:25
me about this thing you guys did 

Jason Clark 43:27
clear 

Rich Bennett 43:28
for forge ice, 

Jason Clark 43:30
porch clear 

Rich Bennett 43:31
By 

Jason Clark 43:31
ice. 

Rich Bennett 43:32
God, I'm going to have to, I want to hear about it because now I may have to go, if it's a product, I'm going to have to get it. 

Jason Clark 43:38
This was a so forge clear ice is a product of GE appliances. 

Rich Bennett 43:45
Oh, really? 

Jason Clark 43:46
Yeah, it's, it is, they have an innovation lab here in Louisville, Kentucky called First Build. And it's a maker space that is connected to the University of Louisville. And they, they, their mission essentially is to generate products that, you know, we'll turn that have a, have a shorter time to market than what GE appliances has been able to do in the past. Right. right? So a new refrigerator takes... I don't know, three to five years and a billion dollars worth of research to get out into the market. Okay. 

Rich Bennett 44:19
all! 

Jason Clark 44:20
I might be exaggerating. Forgive me. But it's a long time and it's very expensive. So their mission with first build was to see what they could get out into the world with a shorter time frame and more innovation and quicker time to market. 

Rich Bennett 44:37
Right. 

Jason Clark 44:38
Their first product that we helped launch was called the Opal Nugget Ice Maker. So people that like the Nugget, the Chewable Nugget Ice, they had the first... they had the first item on the market that was just a countertop appliance that could make that ice. And let me tell you, I love it so much. I've been through three of them now. 

Rich Bennett 44:59
Wow. 

Jason Clark 45:00
Yeah. So the the clear ice maker was an idea that spun out of first build and so to bring this to market, they did an Indiegogo campaign. We spent 

Rich Bennett 45:15
walked 

Jason Clark 45:16
a full Indiegogo like a crowdfunding. 

Rich Bennett 45:18
Okay. 

Jason Clark 45:20
But before we launched that campaign, we spent a full year 

building an audience for this product. So we had the concept, the design wasn't entirely finished but that was being completed. 

Rich Bennett 45:34
right 

Jason Clark 45:34
We had an audience that was very specific and we knew that we could target. So we essentially went out on all the social media platforms. Do you love cocktails and bourbon? Do you like, do you like, do you understand how important clear ice is you know, like that beautiful sphere that you can see straight through? And we had a, we generated an email list of probably 40,000 people before the product even launched. 

So we, that was, that was essentially the market test. Like is this worth building? And then you know, once you get to 40,000 people, okay, if we need to sell 10,000 of these, then I think this is worth pushing the button on, right? 

Rich Bennett 46:20
Right. 

Jason Clark 46:21
So so then we launched it on Indiegogo. It blew away their funding goals in you know, the first five hours or so. Um, 

Rich Bennett 46:30
damn! 

Jason Clark 46:31
Yeah. And it was expensive. I think, you know, at launch it was probably a, I don't remember correctly. It might have been like a $500 to $700 spend because you've got the ice maker that makes the 

Rich Bennett 46:45
Right. 

Jason Clark 46:45
clear ice. They call them gyms. And then you have the press that presses them into spheres. The beautiful setup. Um, and they've actually through market testing and as part of, I think they're part of the GE monogram line now. It's just the ice press. They don't sell the ice maker anymore. So 

Rich Bennett 47:05
do, 

Jason Clark 47:05
what you 

Rich Bennett 47:06
oh, 

Jason Clark 47:07
Well you can, you essentially buy the ice gyms because it's just, it's just cheaper to produce clear ice 

Rich Bennett 47:14
right. 

Jason Clark 47:14
on a, um, more like a bigger level than a ice maker at home. Uh, that was the really expensive part. But, uh, so now you get the ice gyms shipped to you and you press them into the spheres at home with the ice press. Um, 

Rich Bennett 47:29
interesting! 

Jason Clark 47:29
Yeah, but it was a really fun campaign. Um, obviously, I'm in Louisville so bourbon's a big thing. So I mean this, this, this product is still being showcased at events like bourbon and beyond and whatnot because everybody loves it. And let me tell you, you have a cocktail party with your friends and you bring that out and you press them a clear ice ball for their, 

Rich Bennett 47:51
it's impressive! 

Jason Clark 47:52
Yeah. And it's just, you know, it's one of those things that nobody needs. But, you know, story, like you said, storytelling is so important. The experience is so important. The craft is so important. Like these are the things that make life rich and worth enjoying and living. So you put one of these on your countertop when you've got friends over and you're serving them a drink and let me tell you, it's a conversation. 

Rich Bennett 48:17
And those of you listening, trust me, if you drink bourbon any type of whiskey. Use the giant clear ice cube because it does make a big difference. Some people say I'm nuts, but it does. 

Jason Clark 48:32
Oh 

Rich Bennett 48:32
It, 

Jason Clark 48:32
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 48:33
you know, unlike the regular ice that you're getting which melts quicker. And something else. Now here comes the bartender in me because I went to bartending the academy when I got out of the Marine Corps and my father told me you get into it and there was, I'll never forget this. The bar downstairs behind my father's bar was that little red book that had all the different cocktails 

Jason Clark 48:59
it. 

Rich Bennett 48:59
in 

Jason Clark 48:59
Mr. Boston's bartender guy? 

Rich Bennett 49:02
Yes! I didn't even realize that thing was still around you. What did you guys do with that? 

Jason Clark 49:08
So that was honestly that was probably the my favorite web project I've ever worked on. 

Rich Bennett 49:14
Okay. 

Jason Clark 49:15
So, Sahzerak, uh, this is the parent company of brands like Buffalo Trace, Pappy Van Winkle, Blanton's, um, all the good juice, um, they- they actually bought the IP for Mr. Boston, um, so 

Rich Bennett 49:30
Oh. 

Jason Clark 49:30
that this was, um, there's a Mr. Boston line of essentially well drinks and mixers, and whatnot, 

Rich Bennett 49:38
Right. 

Jason Clark 49:38
um, it's actually, you know, a product line, um, but they also had the bartender's guide, which goes back, 

Rich Bennett 49:47
know, 

Jason Clark 49:47
I don't 

Rich Bennett 49:48
along, 

Jason Clark 49:48
like to the early 1900s at least, 

Rich Bennett 49:51
yeah, 

Jason Clark 49:51
um, so they- this was really fun because they essentially came to us and asked us what- what can we or could we do with this, and so we did a little bit of research and just looking around and- and understanding how valuable, um, recipes are for SEO. 

Rich Bennett 50:13
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 50:14
I mean, you know, that like it's- it's unbelievable what having recipes on any kind of food or beverage site will do for traffic. 

Rich Bennett 50:21
Oh yeah. 

Jason Clark 50:22
Um, so we had, you know, we got an idea, hey, why don't we- right? Why don't we digitize these books? So we- we went off on eBay and all these other places and found as many versions of the Mr. Boston bartender guide as we could, and we had those digitized and we created a database of recipes that essentially, you can go- you can go on the Mr. Boston bartender guide website, you can search for an old-fashioned, you can see how it was made most recently and like what in the most recent kind of canonical version of that is, but you can also go back to like 1920 and see how the old-fashioned was made in 1920. Um, the other feature of the website that I just absolutely love is you can search by ingredient. So if you say- 

Rich Bennett 51:12
oh, 

Jason Clark 51:13
so if you go to the website and you search for, uh, let's say, Tequila, like, you- you're looking in your cabinet, okay? I've got Tequila, I've got, um, simple syrup and I've got lemons. So you can do it- and- and so the Mr. Boston bartender guide, which has thousands and thousands of recipes, will just give you those recipes that have Tequila, simple syrup and lemon, right? 

Rich Bennett 51:35
Wow, 

Jason Clark 51:35
which is really, really fun. So that's, um, I mean, we built that site, I think, in 2018, 2019, and it's, again, it's still one of the ones that I just- I- I loved the process. I loved coming up with the ideas for how this could be useful. Um, and I'd love that it's still alive and kicking. 

Rich Bennett 51:56
I love the fact that you said it also gives the history of the drink. 

Jason Clark 51:59
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 52:00
Yeah. Now, I have a funny feeling and that's where Anders, you know, Anders Erickson. 

Jason Clark 52:05
Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 52:06
Oh, okay, the bartender always 

Jason Clark 52:08
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 52:08
do one of the videos. I wonder if that's what he's using. 

Jason Clark 52:10
That's a good question. Yeah. I kind of wonder if it's been ingested by the LLMs because there's so much great data on it. Um, there's also- 

Rich Bennett 52:18
Well, I know what website. I'm going to be saving now. 

Jason Clark 52:20
Yeah. Uh, even- there's a history page on that site that even talks about, you know, when the Mr. Boston bartender guide came out, um, Jen was the primary spirit in 

Rich Bennett 52:33
States. 

Jason Clark 52:33
the United 

Rich Bennett 52:34
It was door prohibition at 

Jason Clark 52:35
So then the number of gen recipes is exponentially higher than everything else. And then as you get imports, um, and like more global trade, things like vodka and tequila started 

Rich Bennett 52:48
the- Mm-hmm. 

Jason Clark 52:48
like ramp up in the recipes and you can see like 

Rich Bennett 52:52
Wow. 

Jason Clark 52:52
global trends and how the world has changed in that data. And again, like, we don't manage that website anymore, but I wish we did because I'm- I'm still in love with 

Rich Bennett 53:02
it. Well, get it back. 

I think what you need to do, not for the company, but just for you, you need- you need to come up with a metal bourbon, a heavy metal bourbon. 

Jason Clark 53:18
I was really disappointed that Metallica released a bourbon and it's made 

Rich Bennett 53:24
in 

Jason Clark 53:25
California. Yeah. Yeah. It's called- I think it's called blackened. Oh, 

Rich Bennett 53:29
wow. 

Jason Clark 53:29
But yeah, it's- it is, it's made in California. So it's not really bourbon. 

Rich Bennett 53:35
I didn't know that. 

Jason Clark 53:37
But yeah. That's- I mean, and that's a gimmick that a lot of bourbon brands are doing now is 

Rich Bennett 53:42
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 53:42
adding a celebrity to it. I mean, if you've ever been to Nashville, you'll see the, you know, Jason L. Dean bar with their- his own, you know, whiskey brand and that kind of stuff. 

Rich Bennett 53:53
I didn't know that either. 

Jason Clark 53:55
It's a big deal. Yeah. And, 

Rich Bennett 53:56
I mean, I always see of Sammy Hagar with Cabowabo. 

Jason Clark 53:59
right? Cabowabo. 

Rich Bennett 54:02
And the rock is Tequila line. 

Jason Clark 54:04
Yeah. Well, who was 

Rich Bennett 54:06
you 

Jason Clark 54:06
it? 

Rich Bennett 54:06
ain't 

Jason Clark 54:06
But 

Rich Bennett 54:06
that bad, actually. Oh yeah. 

Jason Clark 54:07
Vin 

Rich Bennett 54:08
Right. 

Jason Clark 54:08
Reynolds, I think he sold aviation gin for like a billion dollars, really just because it had his name on it. So again, like that's it's not great. I mean, it's a good gin. It's not great gin. But

Rich Bennett 54:19
Right. 

You know what? That may not be a bad idea. 

Jason Clark 54:39
Count me in, buddy. This is fun. 

Rich Bennett 54:41
Oh, I think I think we'll have to do that. All right. So before I get to my last question, is there anything you want to add besides the website and everything? I don't

Jason Clark 54:49
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 54:49
and tell everybody why they need to use via studio. 

Jason Clark 54:53
Yeah, sure. There is

so I've, I essentially bought into the business back in 2003 and I recently sold the company. Slash merged it with

that was at the start of 2023. So eResources is our parent company now. 

the reason that I did that is so because essentially like being in the small town like Louisville, you don't really have a large footprint. So now that we are part of a bigger organization, we've got a more national footprint, we've taken on more national companies. We've got more resources with things like web development, AI. We've

we've started doing a lot of AI strategy and integration projects. 

Rich Bennett 55:41
And 

Jason Clark 55:42
In addition to just the branding and marketing and, you know, website development that we do on that level. So it's been

it's been a really awesome journey, honestly, like watching, because one person taking a company from, you know, $2 million in revenue and growing it further than that is not easy. So, 

Rich Bennett 56:02
right. 

Jason Clark 56:03
That's the other piece that I have to help people understand with marketing is that we'll only get you so far if you really want to grow, there's other business tactics that can be used to grow. You might have to sacrifice a little bit of your ego for that to happen, but that's business. 

Rich Bennett 56:19
It's worth 

Jason Clark 56:19
But yeah, that's

it's been great to see the team grow and evolve and for us to be able to do more complex and complicated projects, digital transformation over the past two and a half years, almost three years now. So it's been really fun. Our team's amazing to work with. Again, like, they've

they've exceeded my capabilities now, so I'm

I'm

I'm a talking head compared to the amazing things that they can do. 

Rich Bennett 56:49
And what's the website? 

Jason Clark 56:51
It's just @gtps colon slash last via .studio. 

Rich Bennett 56:58
just

Jason Clark 56:58
Or if you 

Rich Bennett 56:59
no calm people. 

Jason Clark 57:00
You can go to veastudio.com and it will redirect, but I just

Rich Bennett 57:04
Good. 

Jason Clark 57:05
I'm a fan of conciseness, so being able to just have via. studio makes me very happy. 

Rich Bennett 57:12
Alright, so did my last question, and this is going to be scary, because I don't know what the question is. I don't know. I don't know what the question is. So my b is scary. It's October. Pick a number between one and 100. 

Jason Clark 57:29
43. 

Rich Bennett 57:31
Crap. I got to go backwards. Why 43? 

Jason Clark 57:35
Because 42 is the answer to life, the universe, and everything. So what's next? 

Rich Bennett 57:41
Oh damn. You know what? And this question goes hand in hand with what we've been talking about, not the bourbon part. What's a skill you're grateful to have learned, even if it seemed insignificant at the time? 

Jason Clark 58:01
Playing 

Rich Bennett 58:02
bass. 

Jason Clark 58:04
Right? 

Honestly, the ability to connect with people on a human level. When I was young and really just was so invested in the work and was probably a little bit too obsessed with like building. My former business partner. When I first, like I bought into the business. I didn't found via studio. I bought into it. And my business partner at the time Kelly McKnight. I would get so frustrated because we'd go into a meeting. And you know, an hour long meeting, they'd spend the first 30 minutes talking about football and the game last night. And I was like, what does this have to do with anything? And you know, now I've realized that that like connecting with people on a human level is actually important to winning trust 

Rich Bennett 58:55
Yeah. 

Jason Clark 58:56
and empathy and getting work done. So I see people that are, you know, I'll employees or you know, people that I'm mentoring that are like, well, why can't we just start doing this? And it's like, well, you know, you have to win trust. You have to win respect. You have to connect with people. Nothing moves forward if people don't trust you. So... that it's a soft skill that can be very hard to learn and I'm still not great at it but I appreciate that I learned that early on and it's not something you know somebody might think that my answer would be learn AI or learn how to code or learn you know Figma or Canva, no learn learn how to empathize with people. 

Rich Bennett 59:40
That's which is important especially if you're in business. 

Jason Clark 59:44
Absolutely, yeah, you have to I mean any success, unless you're just a savant, any success in business and in your career, it has to be predicated on your soft skills. Can you read the room? Can you you know come to some kind of compromise with somebody you don't work well with you know 

Rich Bennett 1:00:02
yep, 

Jason Clark 1:00:02
you if you can't do that then you're probably not going to get very far. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:06
Well Jason, I want to thank you so much and I so do you like old-fashioned? 

Jason Clark 1:00:13
I'm more of a fan of just neat because you know but I'm I do love an old-fashioned so. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:21
Well since since you like it neat that Von Pain that I told you about once it comes in I'll let you know how it is 

Jason Clark 1:00:29
I love 

Rich Bennett 1:00:30
it. If it's good I'll let you know if it sucks I'll let you know. 

Jason Clark 1:00:36
Now I'm just going to get it for the bottle I need one of those 

Rich Bennett 1:00:38
oh the bottle is awesome. 

Jason Clark 1:00:41
Yeah 

Rich Bennett 1:00:42
I know it's like it's funny because there are some great looking bottles out there and you never when you finish it you don't want to throw them away 

Jason Clark 1:00:50
absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:51
and you know my boy's like well what's that bottle? I don't know what do you want to put lights in it make it a candle or whatever. 

Jason Clark 1:00:56
I have a friend that 

Rich Bennett 1:00:57
don't use the top 

Jason Clark 1:00:59
the crown royal bottles we talked about that earlier 

Rich Bennett 1:01:01
oh 

Jason Clark 1:01:01
I have a friend because those bottles are so cool he actually has a kind of a side art business where he paints them and decarates them because they're so interesting so yeah 

Rich Bennett 1:01:15
I always like saving the bags to keep changing. 

That was just me that also Jason thanks a lot man and we'll be talking to get because I think we're gonna have to definitely do an episode on music 

Jason Clark 1:01:29
yeah I didn't even tell you about my career so we'll get 

Rich Bennett 1:01:34
Oh 

Jason Clark 1:01:34
there on your list. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:34
well there you got it man thanks a lot. 

Jason Clark 1:01:37
All right buddy. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:38
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love it if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at Conversationswithrightpennate.com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time take care be kind and keep the conversations going. You know it takes a lot to put a podcast together together, and my sponsors help add a lot but I also have some supporters that actually help me when it comes to the editing software the hosting and so forth. There's a lot that goes into putting this together so I want to thank them and if you can please please visit their websites visit their businesses support them however you can so please visit the following Full full circle boards nobody does charcuterie like full circle boards visit them at fullcircleboards.com Sincerely, Sincerely sincerely soil your photography live in the moment they'll capture it visit them at sincerely soyer.com the job-a-town Lions Club serving the community since 1965 visit them at jopatownlinesclub. org and don't forget the E at the end of Jopatown because they're extraordinary.