Dr. Fred Moss: Connection, Not Diagnosis, Is the Cure

Wendy & Rich 0:00
Hey everyone it's Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together we've shared laughs, tears, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios Hartford County living presents Conversations with Rich Bennett. 

No, no, no, no, it's like who is? 

Rich Bennett 1:00
What if everything you thought you knew about mental health was wrong? Today's guest isn't just a psychiatrist, he's a renegade. Dr. Fred Moss, the self-proclaimed undoctor, spent nearly 40 years inside the system before walking away to expose its flaws and offer something radically different. Healing through creativity, connection, and unapologetic self-expression. He's the founder of the Welcome to Humanity movement, a truth teller, a disruptor, and a guide for anyone tired of being labeled, Medicaid it, or misunderstood. So if you've ever felt like the system doesn't see you, this conversation might just change everything. So first of all, I got to ask, do you go buy is it Dr. Fred? 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:56
Fred. 

Rich Bennett 1:57
Dr. Moss 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:58
Dr. Fred, Dr. Fred 

Rich Bennett 1:59
a 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:59
is perfection, and I like that one the best. 

Rich Bennett 2:01
Okay, because I didn't know if it would be Dr. Fred or UnDr. Fred. 

Dr. Fred Moss 2:04
I'm Dr. Fred's a good one too, but no one's ever called me that, so let's just go with Dr. Fred. So I at least know who you're talking about when you say my name 

Rich Bennett 2:13
and I have to ask, how did the undoctor come about? 

Dr. Fred Moss 2:17
Yeah, so thank you for asking and thank for having me on the show and 

Rich Bennett 2:20
oh my pleasure. 

Dr. Fred Moss 2:21
The undoctor was an affectionate moniker that was given to me at a men's group. I was there for the weekend and it was an initiation men's group and in the woods down here in the Sacramento area. And I was with a bunch of men who were up to really good stuff and at the end of the weekend, one of them is a marketing branding expert and he told me that he was giving me a $10, 000 dollar name for free and I was like, okay, let's hear what you got. He goes, you're the undoctor dude. And I'm like, that is good stuff. 

Rich Bennett 2:49
he 

Dr. Fred Moss 2:50
And had heard me on the weekend talking about undiagnosing and unmedicating people because that's the only thing that makes any sense in this world. If we're really going to have an opportunity to help people find stability in the chaos, disarray and conflicts of what it means to be alive in a present world. 

Rich Bennett 3:07
Right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 3:07
So, you know, diagnoses don't be, do people very much help and for sure the medications and the treatments also frequently just perpetuate the symptoms they're marketed to treat. So I was talking like that and he was like, well, take on the undoctor and see how it feels. And the more I took it on, the more it sort of fit and, you know, it's kind of catchy. We have un, diagnoses, unmedicate and an undctrinate. That's what comes with the undctrater. So the idea, there's no word called undctrinate. It just takes people out of the conventional system and puts them back into the world where they belong with the new level of power and freedom. 

Rich Bennett 3:42
I would think, because you're still practicing, right? 

Dr. Fred Moss 3:45
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 3:46
I would think, especially since COVID, the way mental illness has been on a rise that you are probably busier than hell. 

Dr. Fred Moss 3:54
It's interesting. You know, people, it's, it's a really good point and it's different than you would guess. You know, as it turns out, is it, Psychiatry, as a field has been pretty busy for the last five years. No doubt about it. But most people don't want to be undiagnosed. Most people really, a lot of people, they don't want to actually lose their diagnosis because it serves a maximum 

Rich Bennett 4:16
oh, Sh. 

Dr. Fred Moss 4:17
purpose for them. You know, what they notice is that when they're diagnosed, they can say, people don't come to a psychiatrist to find out if there's something wrong with them. 

Rich Bennett 4:25
mm-hmm, 

Dr. Fred Moss 4:26
People come to a psychiatrist to find out what's wrong with them. They already know that there's something wrong with them. That's how they got to my door. So people who come to a psychiatrist don't want to leave without a diagnosis. They don't want to really necessarily get better. They want to be given a label that allows them to say, hey, that wasn't me. That was my depression. That wasn't me. That was my ADHD. That wasn't me. That was my social phobia. That wasn't me. I'm on the spectrum. That wasn't 

Rich Bennett 4:51
right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 4:51
me. I got PTSD. That wasn't me. I've got bipolar, etc. So my business per se. people would only want to come with me if in fact they want to lead this psychiatric system if they want to you know find a way to find their own Container inside of themselves if they want to find a way to walk through the world with the power that we've all been given and Lord knows It's a difficult world to deal with these days. There's a lot of challenges a lot of obstacles a lot of hurdles a lot of chaos a lot of disarray and you know when we have all these things Yeah, the average person who's coming to a psychiatrist doesn't want to hear that he doesn't need medicine or that he doesn't have a diagnosis not naturally anyways Right This is the only sub-specialty in all of medicine that if you tell somebody that they're that they're okay They get pissed 

Rich Bennett 5:42
Why is that Yeah 

Dr. Fred Moss 5:43
Well because look life is hard, right? And I don't know about you but it's only seven something to what seven 15 in the morning and this morning I've already made a handful of mistakes right and and if you look at it that way Um if I have to take responsibility for those mistakes, that's a tough world, you know They say if I can 

Rich Bennett 6:01
Right 

Dr. Fred Moss 6:01
if I can say that's not me. That's my bipolar. That's not me. That's my ADHD So people want to be diagnosed because it's allows them to really relinquish responsibility for the things in life that they feel Clumsy about or they were shamed about or they're guilty about you know they yelled at their wife or they kicked the dog or they Forgot a deadline or they became Afraid or they scrolled the internet or they went on to porn or whatever they did they if they can say I got this and that's why I do that then it it allows them to at least have the you know the Image of them not being responsible for their life and what we're talking about here is no problem by the way Look rich if I could blame you for the mistakes. I've already made today Please take them on I'll 

Rich Bennett 6:51
right 

Dr. Fred Moss 6:51
give them Your fault. It's your fault. I did all the shit. I did this morning. If I can do that. I'm going to do that 

Rich Bennett 6:57
yeah 

Dr. Fred Moss 6:57
because we it's hard to shoulder being a human being So you know when we we really start looking at whether my world was busy Yes, it's busy, but it wasn't you know, look COVID was A stress on a lot of us and really continues to be a stress There's so many things going on in the world are on the back end of COVID that are just built on the whole The whole phenomenon of COVID and when we start and it wasn't it certainly didn't start in March of 2020 That 

Rich Bennett 7:26
Right 

Dr. Fred Moss 7:26
started years or decades before that really but 

Yes mental illness or the concern about being mentally Went up through the roof during those five years But that doesn't mean that mental illness went up. What went up is that people started feeling like there was something wrong with them More, you know, you know more So if you feel like something's wrong with you That's when you come to psychiatrists and you get that you know, you get that diagnosis and The other thing to really get about feeling that there's something wrong with you is that everybody I'm talking everybody if they look in the mirror thinks that there's something wrong with them. In fact one could say That if you think there's something wrong with you, that's a good sign that you're normal Because we all think there's something wrong with us, you know 

Rich Bennett 8:14
and nobody's perfect 

Dr. Fred Moss 8:16
Man if you look it we're just not there's no there's no roadmap. There's no template. There's no recipe book Being a human Is tough stuff man. It's been tough stuff since the beginning of time. It remains tough and You know, we all if because we compare our insides to other people's outsides We all have the illusion that there's something wrong with us and that we need to go see a doctor We need to get diagnosis. We need to get some medication. Whatever we think 

Rich Bennett 8:45
Do you are you seeing a problem with people? I guess you could say 

Self-diagnose in themselves 

Dr. Fred Moss 8:55
Well, you know, I would have to say that a hundred percent of people who have a diagnosis self-diagnosis self look If I call you an elephant you get to choose whether or not you're an elephant right 

Rich Bennett 9:06
Wait, all right, Dr. Fred. I've lost a lot of weight. Come on now 

Dr. Fred Moss 9:10
Yeah, I mean look if you here's the thing about that let's take this elephant one step further Let's say you come to my office and we'll back off from the elephant But let's say you come to my office as a human being and you start telling me that you got some problems You got gray skin. You got a big nose. You're overweight. You're You love peanuts. You drink too much water and you're a mess in a china shop Let's just say that you got that going on Now I 

Rich Bennett 9:35
in my way 

Dr. Fred Moss 9:35
go 

Rich Bennett 9:35
you explain that 

Dr. Fred Moss 9:37
Right, let's just say you have that sentiment. 

Rich Bennett 9:39
guy. 

Dr. Fred Moss 9:39
I'm 

Rich Bennett 9:39
Yeah 

Dr. Fred Moss 9:39
a I go into my book. I'm like oh dude you're an elephant and you're like that explains everything I'm an elephant and you know what happens. This is the next thing that happens rich is you walk out of my office And you're looking for circuses and chains 

Rich Bennett 9:54
Oh cheap 

Dr. Fred Moss 9:54
because you're an elephant now. Yeah 

Rich Bennett 9:56
Right 

Dr. Fred Moss 9:57
You're an elephant. You know yourself as an elephant. What does an elephant need? An elephant needs circuses. They need chains and you're looking for that now and you're out there sure that you're an elephant. Why? Because me as an authority has given you that label. And once you now you go home and you're like you tell your brother, hey, dude, I figured out what's wrong with me. What's wrong with you? I'm an elephant. He goes, I don't think so. He's like, no, I am an elephant. Dr. Fred told me as an elephant. He's like, well, I don't think you're an elephant. And you know, you start taking about your brother. You just are wrong. He doesn't know yet. 

Rich Bennett 10:27
Right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 10:28
He doesn't know yet. He doesn't understand the whole, the whole, you know, the whole existence as an elephant. He doesn't understand the whole concept of an elephant. So you start worrying about him because he's in the same family as you. So with little does he know he probably has some elephant in him too, but he doesn't know yet, you know. And then people start treating you like an elephant because you treat yourself as an elephant and now you walk around with a confirmed diagnosis and guess you made that diagnosis. You, 

Rich Bennett 10:58
who did? Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 10:59
Who cares what I call you? In the end, every diagnosis, every mental health diagnosis that you take on, you took on for yourself just because somebody with a, with a degree or somebody with some experience told you you had X, Y or Z certainly doesn't mean you have X, Y or Z until you take it on for yourself. 

Rich Bennett 11:17
Right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 11:17
So in the world of self-diagnosing, I would say 100% of psychiatric diagnoses ultimately are self-diagnosed as long as you agree that you have it, you know. 

Rich Bennett 11:28
Right. And the reason I bring that up because I mean, I've talked to people, I mean, people that are very close friends and all that and out of the blue, we're talking and they're like, oh yeah, my OCD is 

Dr. Fred Moss 11:40
that. 

Rich Bennett 11:41
kicking up 

Dr. Fred Moss 11:41
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 11:42
We've, we've it what? But 

Dr. Fred Moss 11:44
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 11:44
yet, have never been to a doctor 

Dr. Fred Moss 11:46
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 11:47
to find? 

Dr. Fred Moss 11:47
exactly. Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 11:49
And my thing is I said, look, how do you know you have it? Well, I looked at everything on the internet and it's clear that I have it. 

Dr. Fred Moss 11:59
Yeah. Well, again, if you, if you have great skin, big ear... 

Rich Bennett 12:03
Yeah, 

Dr. Fred Moss 12:03
you come back, you come back and you tell the doctor, I got big ears and a good memory too, and they say, you know what, your elephant type 2 now. And, you know, and 

Rich Bennett 12:12
yeah, 

Dr. Fred Moss 12:13
that's how it works. It's like, you've got a special case, man. We only see this case one in a thousand, you're like, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 12:21
God, I just, I, because we, we talked about mental health on here a lot and 

Dr. Fred Moss 12:26
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 12:26
it's just, it blows me away because my biggest thing is I, I want to talk about medication here. 

Dr. Fred Moss 12:37
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 12:38
I, it seems like everybody just wants a prescription to help with it. And to me, my take on that is, because I got to be in severe tears before I even pop a nutrient. But you see a lot of medications, they had the side effects for something that is supposed to be treating. But yet, I see other people that can have the same problem and never take any medication. Because whether they're doing with the tapping, whether they're doing, you know, something holistic, meditating or whatever, that seems to help. 

Dr. Fred Moss 13:17
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 13:17
What is your take on medication when it comes to a lot of this stuff? 

Dr. Fred Moss 13:20
So the medications are not designed to heal you. That's for sure. Nobody even pretends that they're designed to heal you. The industry doesn't even suggest that it's designed to heal you. The industry suggests that the medications are there to contain you or perhaps slow down the deterioration that was going to happen anyways. That's the best you can hope for with that stuff. 

Rich Bennett 13:39
Like a bandaid. 

Dr. Fred Moss 13:40
Now, I wish it was like a bandaid. Rich, it's like a bandaid with a razor blade embedded in it, 

Rich Bennett 13:44
dude. Oh, jeez. Oh, shit. Yeah. Damn. 

Dr. Fred Moss 13:48
I wish it was a bandaid. I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be here. 

Rich Bennett 13:50
Right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 13:51
It's no big thing. If it was a bandaid, I'm down. It's not a bandaid. It's a bandaid with a razor blade in it And how does a bandaid with a razor blade in it? Let's look at it Let's say you got a little cut on your hand and you put a bandaid and you didn't even know it had a razor blade in it You put a bandaid on and for a moment the thing starts bleeding and then a few days later is start oozing out the sides of the bandaid And when it starts oozing out the side of the bandaid, you assume that your cut got worked You don't assume that the bandaid caused it and what happens then is once it starts oozing out the sides You only have three choices if you're going to be a competent, you know, healer That would be to add increase or change that bandaid Are you going to add another bandaid? Are you going to increase the size of that bandaid? Are you going to change to a different type of bandaid? No one's going to ever think that what's causing that cut-to-get worse is actually the bandaid And what I'm suggesting here is that these medications actually cause and secure and they perpetuate and induce and In fact, create the symptoms they're marketed to treat now that's a very very cool business model rich That's a very cool business model is going to work really nicely if you can create a product that actually creates a need to buy that product You're going to 

Rich Bennett 15:05
Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 15:05
rock and roll you're going to rock and roll And that's exactly what's happening inside of that industry that industry is creating a multi-billion dollar profit margin every single day 

now look I don't blame the pharmacological industry if I would have created a product that can make me multi-billions of dollars a day and That people 

Rich Bennett 15:27
Yeah, 

Dr. Fred Moss 15:27
are just buying it line up across the street every single morning before the place even opens up So that they can go get some I'm down with that as I mean, you should create that product. 

Rich Bennett 15:37
right 

Dr. Fred Moss 15:37
We can the hills that'd be great. 

Rich Bennett 15:39
For 

Dr. Fred Moss 15:39
So it's not the pharmacy industry. We don't want to blame on in the industry Let's face it. It's not the pharmacy industry and it's not the doctor. This is where we're establishing already rich good job It's not the doctor who told you that was something wrong with you who's faulted as either in the end. It's on you right If you really are gonna walk around thinking there's something deadly wrong with you and you're gonna take whatever they give you to deal with that even if it makes you worse That my friend is on 

Rich Bennett 16:08
Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Fred Moss 16:08
you and it's up to you to start looking at maybe just maybe there's nothing wrong with you in the first place We don't have a recipe book and just because you have funny thoughts or just because you're deadly afraid or just because you're anxious in a crowd Or just because you're not meeting your deadlines or just because you're sad for the future or just because you have you Fast moving thoughts are you or you have shiny object syndrome or you are awkward in a crowd Does not mean there's anything wrong with you That's called humanity and that's what 

Rich Bennett 16:41
right? 

Dr. Fred Moss 16:42
welcome humanity is about and you know what if you want to have something wrong with Use and declare yourself with something wrong with you go to a doctor. You'll get the stamp of approval Then you'll get your diagnosis and as an elephant what will you do you will walk out of the office looking for what? Chains and circus 

Rich Bennett 16:59
is right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 17:00
You will now be an elephant because you said so 

Rich Bennett 17:04
So with your clients, what is it that you actually do 

Dr. Fred Moss 17:08
that's a really great question. Let's really talk about it You know we're up to the assumption that if you really need help you should go to a professional and if you go to professional They give you dbt or CBT or psychotherapy or they give you like MDR are they give you medication or they give you some sort of counseling and they wonder like what can you do Here's the deal dude if you really want to get better the way to get better the most powerful medicine that we've ever had in our life in the History of time is connecting with another person 

Rich Bennett 17:38
Thank you. Oh God thank you for saying that 

Dr. Fred Moss 17:43
you don't have anything better right No one dies. There is nothing when you find something better than connecting with another person. Please let me know 

There is nothing better that's what we're doing here today That's what we're all really trying to do no matter whether we're on this side or that side 

Rich Bennett 18:01
There 

Dr. Fred Moss 18:02
We agree with this or that Ultimately, well really interested in look. I've worked in the prisons I've worked in a bike, you know, 500 different places more than 500 different places in my 

Rich Bennett 18:10
is nothing better. Yeah 

Dr. Fred Moss 18:10
career and yeah I know I've I've signed a lot of contracts in my life and what I've really been looking for is a place that finally works for me that Allows me to actually speak this kind of truth But I've worked in prisons I've worked in jails. I've worked in inner nursing homes and I've worked in inpatient units You know supposedly these are people who are pretty sick. Let me tell you When I meet up with somebody and we connect at that moment, at that second, there's no side effects, there's no authorization, there's no need for a doctor's order, there's no nothing. There's this massive thing called connection and that connection often gets even label that something beautiful called love. Like when we're actually connecting with someone you get that surge. Wow, this guy gets me or wow, I feel gotten or wow, I get this person. When that happens, the spark of healing takes place at that second. I don't care. If you're a lifer, I don't care if you're deeply inside of the inpatient unit, I don't care who you are in the world. If I'm able to connect with you in such a way that you feel like you've been gotten. boom. Right then, instantaneous, no side effects, nothing like that. We just get connection and in 

Rich Bennett 19:18
Yeah, 

Dr. Fred Moss 19:18
that world, that's really what we're looking for. But there's so much isolation these days, there's so many, there's so much, you know, people are afraid to actually speak so true boys. You know, I wrote a book called Find Your True Boys, which helps you speak your true boys. And, you know, people are afraid of speaking their true boys, they're afraid that they might be thrown off the island or they might be disregarded or cause a mess of their own. So they say things that they don't even mean, rich, let's take a second and look at what I just said, they say things. They don't even mean. They say things that even they don't believe. Where have we come to? Rich, what is that about that people are actually spitting stuff out of their mouth that even they don't believe. 

Rich Bennett 20:00
They don't believe or they don't even have a first clue about it. 

Dr. Fred Moss 20:03
it's like that. It's amazing. What people will do in order to stay inside of their tribe. And 

Rich Bennett 20:08
Yeah, 

Dr. Fred Moss 20:08
what we're really looking for, look, we've learned over time. And it's been years and, you know, if we're born in the United States, we really understand this, but most countries have a version of this. If we've been pretending to be somebody that we're not in order to protect the person that we are. And we've been doing that from when we were a little kid, you know, like I know for me, I was a prodigious child. I had two brothers that were 10 and 14 years older than me when I was born and I just went into school. I was already knew a little bit about, you know, a little bit about math and a little bit about writing, a little bit about sex and drugs and rock and roll. I knew a little bit, right? And when I got to, when I got to school, I was very talkative. There's no elementary school student. No, any elementary school teacher who ever forgot having Fred as a student. 

Rich Bennett 20:56
that. 

Dr. Fred Moss 20:56
I'm pretty sure about And, you know, what we're really saying here is that, you know, people end up being. Even in first grade, I was pretty articulate. I was pretty funny. I could raise a room. I could cause trouble with my boys because I was so smart, so supposedly so smart that I was bored, you know, so that I would, I would really funny in class and I just love making my class laugh and I love 

Rich Bennett 21:24
class clown. 

Dr. Fred Moss 21:24
I was a class clown and I was the top of the class at the same time, right? And so what I was told in the first grade and pretty much every single grade and every single day later was something like sit down, be quiet and do what I do and do it at the way I do it. In other words, teaching me how to be someone different than I was. And that's where I learned how to be someone different than I was in order to protect the person that I am. That crack in the cement grew over time. It grew over time and no one ever went back to repair it. So over the time over the years, we've all learned how to be somebody that we're not in order to protect the person that we are because we don't want to be thrown off the island. So because of that, we step into pretending who we are and we start saying things that we don't mean or we start not saying things when we know we should. And as Henry David the Rose so brilliantly said, the massive men go through life and quiet desperation and then go to their graves with their songs still in them. And between me and you, I don't really know a more tragic situation than going all the way through life and having nobody ever actually get to know you. 

Rich Bennett 22:34
Yeah, I would not 

Dr. Fred Moss 22:36
No, of course not, yet in some way we're all doing that. People, you know, that's when I'm with my wife, I'm like, what's the problem with me and my wife? Okay, well, maybe I'm not loving her enough or maybe I'm not showing her my real self or maybe I'm not being vulnerable or maybe I'm not telling her on my own importance she is to me or maybe I'm not appreciating her or adoring her as my, that's the same thing. I'm afraid, maybe I don't want to go out on the limb 'cause who knows, maybe it won't work out. And so we all learned how to be someone different than we were in order to protect the person we are. And that's why we want to learn how to speak our true voice. Why do we want to learn how to speak our true voice because when we speak our true voice, we can be heard for who we really are. And if we can be heard for who we are, we can create a space for the other person to start speaking who they really are. You've had this experience where you open up and you start talking to somebody, maybe you start emptying your heart a little bit and that person who doesn't typically and they're opened their heart, starts opening their heart because you 

Rich Bennett 23:35
want that. Yes! 

Dr. Fred Moss 23:35
did. And you're able to connect at a very high level like a resonating frequency of attuning for, called humanity and right there, that's the conditions that allow for that human connection at the highest level, which is often stated as love, in many cases. 

Rich Bennett 23:51
Why do you think it's so hard for a lot of people to find their true voice? 

Dr. Fred Moss 23:54
Well, that's a good question. I mean, we really are terrified. We're really terrified that we're going to lose our connection with the rest of our people. And so when we, you know, we're afraid that like, I know you might have some thoughts that you couldn't keep in secret. Maybe it's about some of the world events or maybe it's about, you know, how you think about this or what you saw there or you know, stuff that you, in your heart of heart, is true for you. It's true for you, but you already know that if you bring that up in that crowd, it's possible that you're gonna ruffle some feathers, so you don't do that. You don't bring your true voice. Instead, you actually become who you think they want you to be in order to be in that crowd. Now, let's really look at this. 

What's the, either way, look, that's the most ludicrous, preposterous absurd thing that you could possibly do is pretend to be somebody else. You get that, like, 

Rich Bennett 24:47
We'll do it. 

Dr. Fred Moss 24:48
everyone does it. At some level, we're all doing it. It is the most absurd thing that a human does, right? And so not only, why is it preposterous? Because it doesn't work. 

So either way, you're gonna be dismissed. Either way, you're gonna be 

Rich Bennett 25:04
Right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 25:04
hated. Either way, they're just gonna either hate you for who you really are, or hate you for who you're pretending to be. Either way, you're gonna lose people. Either way, not everybody's gonna appreciate you. So it doesn't even protect you and is so much effort. Oh my God, when I'm trying to be somebody that I'm not in order to stay in a crowd, I gotta remember who I said, what two in all of this? I gotta like keep my story straight because I said hit to him and maybe he knows her. And if he said that to her, then I probably should say this to her because in order for me to be with her and to make her think that I'm a consistent, normal human being, I gotta memorize everything I've said and who I said it to, oh, 

that, and we spend our whole time spending our wheels in this area, dude. 

Rich Bennett 25:50
Hey, no wonder people get headaches all the time. 

Dr. Fred Moss 25:53
Exactly. Exactly, for real. 

Rich Bennett 25:56
All right, because the connection, I'm 100% and 10% with you on there. 

Dr. Fred Moss 26:01
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 26:02
But how can you help people that, 

let's say social anxiety, they have social anxiety, 

Dr. Fred Moss 26:15
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 26:15
all, 

Dr. Fred Moss 26:15
we all, we 

Rich Bennett 26:16
They just, yeah, they just don't like that, one on one connection, 

Dr. Fred Moss 26:21
Yeah, there's not very many people who ultimately don't like a one-on-one connection. 

Rich Bennett 26:25
right? 

Dr. Fred Moss 26:26
It's just been burned so many times that they don't want to get burned again. They've had her heart out there. Maybe they were last time was when they were a child, they're a teenager. And it hurts to be rejected, it hurts to be abandoned. So these people pretend that they don't like social connection but they do like social connection. It just has failed them so repetitively over their life that they've had the pain and they're like, you know what, I'm not doing this. 

Rich Bennett 26:49
Right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 26:50
You know what, I don't trust you. I don't trust them. I don't trust anybody. And I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna try to create a social connection. Ultimately, we all require social connection. That's how we get through the world. And you know, even if you're a month living inside of a cave, ultimately you're looking for some form of social connection. Then what I'm saying about that is once you start taking these medicines and once you take on the diagnosis, let's say you inadvertently throughout this whole diagnosis thing called social anxiety, which has a beautiful history in its own right by the way. But we go there another day maybe. And that is, once you declare yourself with social anxiety, dude, you're like an elephant looking for circus and chains. You feel like, oh, I got a condition here. I got a condition here. I got this thing called social anxiety. You can't expect me to function normally inside of a social setting. Why? 'Cause I got social anxiety. I got this condition that separates me from you. I got something called social anxiety. And then we start taking the medicines and what do you think the medicines do? The medicines actually cause anxiety and social settings. So now what a beautiful setup this is rich. We're back to that beautiful industry that created the multi billion dollar profit margin every day. Like if the medicines can create that problem, now you actually do have social anxiety because you think you're taking something that's helping you that's actually creating social anxiety. Now you think you have social anxiety because you switched the horse in the car. And because you think you have social anxiety you do because who diagnosed you? 

Rich Bennett 28:28
You did. You did. 

Dr. Fred Moss 28:30
And when you now declare yourself as having social anxiety, you do. 

Rich Bennett 28:37
I just I don't know. I just I I think people just need to get out there and well, first of all, if they have any problems, they need to get in touch with you. The connection part is just I think it's key. 

Dr. Fred Moss 28:58
It's everything. 

Rich Bennett 28:59
Yeah, I mean, you're granted you may butt heads with some people, but be like you said, use your true voice. Be your true self. 

Dr. Fred Moss 29:08
be authentic, be genuine. If you can 

Rich Bennett 29:10
Yeah, 

Dr. Fred Moss 29:10
do that. Yeah. And so how do we do that? You talked about you asked this question earlier. So one of the ways to do that, you have to do it incrementally because this stuff has really grown over time. You know, if we're going to go back to I learned it with Miss Monroe in the first grade when she tell me, she's laughed so hard at everything I said. And then she told me to sit down and shut up. You know, and 

Rich Bennett 29:28
all right, way me hold up. There ain't no way in hell. You remember your first grade 

Dr. Fred Moss 29:32
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 29:32
T. 

Dr. Fred Moss 29:33
yeah, her name was Miss Monroe first share. 

Rich Bennett 29:35
Damn, I can't remember mine. 

Dr. Fred Moss 29:36
Yeah, I know, I know. I somehow made it my business to remember all all seven of my elementary school. I had miss Rosenow for kindergarten. I had Miss Row for Miss Monroe for first grade. And second grade I had Miss Lynn and third grade I had Miss Akin and fourth grade I had Miss Brandau and fifth grade, I had Mr. Klein and then sixth grade I had Mister Estabruck. That was my teachers for 

Rich Bennett 29:59
Wow. 

Dr. Fred Moss 29:59
sure. Yep. 

Rich Bennett 30:00
I only remember a few of mine. 

Dr. Fred Moss 30:02
Well, 

Rich Bennett 30:03
God, 

Dr. Fred Moss 30:03
you know, look, I don't know, it's not that big of a deal. And at the same time, you know, if we look at miss Monroe and we look at her telling me to just sit down and be quiet. You know, that's what we're really saying here is that that's when we learned I kind of got off dracker, but that's when we learn to start, you know, being different than who we were. And when we start being different than who we are and start being told to, you know, sit on and be quiet, that's when we take on a second personality. And that second personality is not a genuine personality. It's not an authentic personality. It's not a core personality. It's something that it's actually put in place so that we can survive and get green check marks instead of wrecked red access on our papers, 

Rich Bennett 30:42
right? 

Dr. Fred Moss 30:43
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 30:44
Huh, creativity. 

Dr. Fred Moss 30:47
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 30:48
You talk about creativity as a heel and force. Can 

Dr. Fred Moss 30:50
For 

Rich Bennett 30:50
you? 

Dr. Fred Moss 30:51
sure. 

Rich Bennett 30:51
Talk about that a little bit because I'm 100. I have it even heard what you're going to say yet, but I have a funny feeling. I'm with you on this. 

Dr. Fred Moss 30:59
I think so too. And here's how it goes. So creativity. You know, I wrote a book called the creative eight healing through creativity and self expression. And we look at creativity. One of the things I've noticed, you know, I've had over 30,000 patients and, you know, I've worked, I don't know like I said over 500 jobs. I've been in the field for 45 years, 46 years now. And you know, I've been a psychiatrist for about 36 years. I've been I was in as a child care worker for a state mental hospital for adolescent boys for 10 years before that. 

Rich Bennett 31:30
Oh, wow. 

Dr. Fred Moss 31:30
And that's where I really learned most of what I'm talking about here to be honest. I mean, it's the same stuff right. And then we look at creativity. We look at art, music, dancing, singing drama, cooking, writing, gardening, photography, cleaning our two other to others that got an on got added on. What I noticed is that when we're being creative, we take a pen out and we put it on paper or we take a paintbrush out and put it on canvas or we play a guitar or play harmonica or we tap the side of our table with music or we start singing, you know, when we sing inside the car, sing inside the shower or when we do some drama or when we cook, which is also a creative activity. Or when we dance, even if we close our door in our room and actually just been around do whatever kind of dancing we do. During that time, all our sense of being in, being deficient or defective or afflicted goes away. Like, you know, like while we're doing that, there's relief that takes place in all these concerns all this discomfort that comes with being a human, it actually disappears or at least gets to manage 

Rich Bennett 32:35
Right 

Dr. Fred Moss 32:35
significant. what that says to me is that when you're done doing that stuff you have a choice do you want to go right back to feeling miserable like you did before you started or do you want to go from where you are at the end of playing that harmonica and actually step into a world that really works that's one of your possibilities you are not stuck to being the dude who brought you to right now you just aren't you just aren't and you have been released while you're being created you have been released there's been a massive diminishment if not a disappearance of your symptoms and at that moment when you're done tapping on the side of the table with your with your you know spoon and fork you can actually walk into a freedom that's waiting for you right there that doesn't mean ahhhh shit here comes my depression again I guess I'm depressed you don't have to go back there 

Rich Bennett 33:24
right 

Dr. Fred Moss 33:25
you can choose from this moment now that you've been released from the cage you can step into being empowered it's possible 

Rich Bennett 33:34
if 

Dr. Fred Moss 33:35
but people really are drawn you know they're really drawn to the right to the misery and the disempowerment of having a psychiatric diagnosis and I want to say it one sort or another and we've already discussed at least one very major reason for that because when you have a diagnosis you're no longer risk you're outsourcing who you are to a diagnosis you give yourself some sort of um alphabet soup diagnosis PTSD MDD BAT you know ocd um whatever a st n p nan narcissistic whatever you want to call yourself 

Rich Bennett 34:13
pay 

Dr. Fred Moss 34:13
ellum 

Rich Bennett 34:13
to you yeah 

Dr. Fred Moss 34:16
and 

Rich Bennett 34:16
yeah you're right 

Dr. Fred Moss 34:17
you give yourself that diagnosis and now you have a reason for doing what you're doing that isn't you you get to out-s Usher own personality inside of these very bizarre very nebulous very arbitrary diagnoses that have frankly most of them been made up in the last 40 years it's made up from nothing 

Rich Bennett 34:38
sayin that because I 

Dr. Fred Moss 34:39
yeah 

Rich Bennett 34:40
always believe 

Dr. Fred Moss 34:40
that that's true just made up 

Rich Bennett 34:43
something else I've noticed I want you to take on this especially with I guess the younger generation for some reason they I see a lot of them they think it's cool to either be depressed 

Dr. Fred Moss 34:59
yeah 

Rich Bennett 35:00
anxiety or you know PTSD or whatever 

Dr. Fred Moss 35:04
yeah yeah there is a there is some sort of pride that comes with that you know because again it's sort of like saying I have a I have a scar on my face or something like that you know like it really uh it gives an identity it allows you to then explain why your life is so clumsy and by the way I don't know you that well but I can tell you for sure your life is clumsy why do I know that because all of our lives are clumsy man we don't have a recipe book we don't have a template we don't have an instruction manual life is clumsy you don't know what you're doing neither do I you don't have a clue dude and neither do I you don't believe what you believe is true may or may not be true so what right so what man that's called humanity let's just face the real truth here that's just called humanity 

Rich Bennett 35:56
wow okay the 

I could see here and talk to you for hours I'm serious it just it's and I guess mainly because I mean I work with kids a lot and having kids of my own and even adults 

Dr. Fred Moss 36:15
yeah 

Rich Bennett 36:15
it just I especially 

when it comes to anxiety and depression and one of my first anxiety 

Dr. Fred Moss 36:27
people actually think they know what they're saying when they use those two words that's hilarious too 

Rich Bennett 36:32
oh explain that 

Dr. Fred Moss 36:34
what do you know about anxiety you just call it anxiety and you expect the other person to understand what you're saying you get the little 

Rich Bennett 36:41
right 

Dr. Fred Moss 36:41
you little twitch where you feel like you know you got the shake so like you drank too much coffee or something like that and you call that anxiety and we then assume that we understand what you mean when you say that word anxiety and somehow that it's different than depression which looks like that or feels like that you got this notion you got a self described definition of what these two words are anxiety and depression which are thrown around like M&M's all day long between people and people don't know what the hell they're talking about with this I got anxiety you better have anxiety dude it's really scary out here it's really scary if you don't have anxiety or something wrong with you if you don't have you know if you that might be if you're actually not have not anxious if you're not how long would it take me and you to come up with a hundred reasons to be anxious maybe four minutes 

Rich Bennett 37:33
yeah 

Dr. Fred Moss 37:33
four minutes maybe if we stopped if we took a break halfway through maybe like four minutes right yeah how long would it take us to come up with 100 things to be depressed about about four minutes yeah how about to be really afraid about like terrified. Like, I don't know, three minutes, yeah. So we don't have anxiety. We have a world that creates discomfort. I'm going to quote another one of my, you know, now deceased mentors, his name is Yadouk, Krishna Murphy. He spoke to this idea, it is no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. 

no, 

Rich Bennett 38:14
Again, 

Dr. Fred Moss 38:15
no sign of mental health. To be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. 

We spend all our time pretending to be well adjusted to a profoundly, we'll go through so many iterations so many, 

Rich Bennett 38:31
yeah, 

Dr. Fred Moss 38:31
so much, you know, with, you know, we'll just contortion ourselves in order to be well adjusted to the society, because we have taught, we have been taught since the mid 80s anyways, that if we're uncomfortable, that means there's something wrong with us. It's gaslighting, my friend. 

Rich Bennett 38:50
Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 38:52
If you're uncomfortable, it's because you're human. You should be uncomfortable. There's some very uncomfortable things going on in the world, and they've been going on for a long time, not just since in 2020, 

Rich Bennett 39:04
since the beginning of 

Dr. Fred Moss 39:05
since 

Rich Bennett 39:05
time, 

Dr. Fred Moss 39:05
the beginning of time, you're not going to find anyone ever who wrote to a time that said, I'm not uncomfortable. No, no, they didn't. 

Rich Bennett 39:16
No, they didn't. That's one of the things that cracks me up a lot of times. You're here if people say, oh my god, what is, what has, what, I can't even think of a phrase that they usually say, or it's, it's definitely a negative phrase. Like, you know, what has happened to our 

Dr. Fred Moss 39:34
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 39:36
all the time. Things have been happening all the time. The 

Dr. Fred Moss 39:38
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 39:38
only problem, the only difference is now you have the 24/7 TV, you have social media, so you're seeing and hearing it all the time. 

Dr. Fred Moss 39:46
Do you go, let's take a look at this. Let's take another look as we're digging in here, because I think this is really important. 

The TV's causing a problem and either 

Rich Bennett 39:57
you are by watching 

Dr. Fred Moss 39:58
the exactly and letting it just ruin your 

Rich Bennett 40:01
brain. Yes. 

Dr. Fred Moss 40:03
Exactly right. And it's very addicting. They worked hard at it. I'm addicted to my phone, just as bad as anybody else, and 

Rich Bennett 40:09
Yep. 

Dr. Fred Moss 40:10
I don't have a TV. Thank goodness. I used to watch a lot of TV, but, and I, 

Rich Bennett 40:14
you ain't missing nothing. 

Dr. Fred Moss 40:15
I'm not missing anything. That's for sure. And, you know, and, but it's not the TV's fault and it's not the internet's fault. It's not my cell phone's fault. It's not Facebook's fault. It's not. They're just things. 

Rich Bennett 40:28
You 

Dr. Fred Moss 40:29
choose whether or not you want to go down the belly of the beast into Facebook. You tell me whether that's going to work for you. That's going to work for you. That's going to create a life that's better for you. By all more power to you. Please spend all your time in Facebook. 

Rich Bennett 40:40
Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 40:41
But if that stuff is messing with your inners and, you know, turning you inside out, making you incapable of communicating directly with other humans, that's a pretty big price to pay. 

Rich Bennett 40:52
Well, how do you get people to stop doing that? 

Dr. Fred Moss 40:54
That's really a good question, too. So, you know, once you start doing it, it's really compelling. And they put the thing at the right weight, the rights they've done. Look, billions and billions of dollars and hours 

Rich Bennett 41:06
put 

Dr. Fred Moss 41:06
have been 

Rich Bennett 41:07
there. Science behind 

Dr. Fred Moss 41:07
How to 

Rich Bennett 41:08
shit. 

Dr. Fred Moss 41:08
oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Very real science. And so, you know, and then they make you sort of depend on it just to get through the day. And so, now you have to text. You have to email. You have to watch this. You have to see that. You have to go to YouTube. You have to go to, you know, you have to, you know, go to AI or go check out something on Google or find somebody's address and, you know, there are techniques for getting off of an internet connect on inner that will call it a dependency or addiction. And it's very similar, very, very similar to the techniques that have worked up until now with becoming less dependent on drugs, alcohol, sex and, you know, stuff like that, which is, you know, really stepping into, you know, we came believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore a society or this idea that we admitted, we were powerless over X and that our life had become unmanageable, which are the first two steps, of course. 

Rich Bennett 42:11
Yeah, I think one of the other things that would help people. No, let me, I don't even watch the news or anything anymore. 

Dr. Fred Moss 42:18
Good. 

Rich Bennett 42:18
Do I have a TV? Yeah. A lot of times I like to watch funny stuff like, I'm old-school, I let's go back and watch the Carol Brannette show and watch Tim Conway make everybody laugh. 

Dr. Fred Moss 42:28
Yeah, good. That's good. 

Rich Bennett 42:30
But the, the thing is, you said it in the beginning, if social media, TV and all that is really, really driving you down. than sit down and talk, make that connection, 

Dr. Fred Moss 42:47
Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 42:47
don't make the connection by tech- hell! people, kids now- even the thoughts, they don't even know how to pick up the damn phone and call somebody, they wanna text 'em. 

Dr. Fred Moss 42:56
Exactly. And you know, let's keep in mind that we think the damn phone is a good connection and the damn phone still is dependent on technology. If you 

Rich Bennett 43:05
Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:05
really wanna connect with somebody, go them. 

Rich Bennett 43:09
Yes. 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:09
For real. 

Rich Bennett 43:11
I mean, one of the things I love doing, it's funny because my, my daughter, my wife, be like, huh, they're having your pal out. Our neighbors, we'll just, I'll go out, we sit there and talk. 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:24
Yeah, it's great. 

Rich Bennett 43:26
Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:26
It's so good, right? It's so good. 

Rich Bennett 43:27
It's what, we're not sitting there on our phones while we're talking, or 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:30
Right. 

Rich Bennett 43:31
we're not standing in their text in each other. 'Cause I see that, you see kids nowadays, they could be standing across from each other and they're still texting each other. 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:39
Yeah, it's right to be right, man, 

Rich Bennett 43:40
Open 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:40
exactly. 

Rich Bennett 43:40
your damn mouth! 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:42
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:42
God, I'm 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:43
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 43:43
sorry, I better get off my soapbox. 

Dr. Fred Moss 43:45
Oh, no, you're right, man, exactly right. And the truth is, is that, you know, that's where the real human connection happens is, you know, when I tell about those stories in the prison or in the nursing home, or, you know, they don't happen on television. They happen when I'm standing right there next to that, next to that inmate, or next to that resident and just, you know, able to hear, able to listen, being deeply curious about what's going on in that other person's world. 

Rich Bennett 44:10
Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 44:11
That's, it does take a little bit of that. 

Rich Bennett 44:13
One of the things I did when I asked you, what is your take on the idea that some were over-treated but under-heard? 

Dr. Fred Moss 44:23
Over-treated and under-heard. Over-treated. What do you mean by that? 

Rich Bennett 44:26
No, no. Over-treated but under-heard. In other words, like it's a lot of people will go to the dog 

Dr. Fred Moss 44:32
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 44:32
going 

Dr. Fred Moss 44:33
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 44:33
back to the medication. 

Dr. Fred Moss 44:34
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 44:35
Yo, but they're not, they're being, I guess you could say, over-treated with the medication... 

Dr. Fred Moss 44:41
I do what you're saying, 

Rich Bennett 44:42
but they're not like they're doctor or whatever's 

Dr. Fred Moss 44:44
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 44:45
into them. 

Dr. Fred Moss 44:46
Look, they don't, you can't teach that in school. And here's the good thing about the undoctor. So, one of the beautiful things, I have this program now called undoctorreset.com and I'm biting people to take a look at that. So undoctor reset is a way of really finding your way through this whole mess and getting yourself off of medications and off the diagnoses. And it's a pretty cool program I'm building and when you talk being over-treated and under-heard, what we're really talking about is you don't have to have a degree to be a healer. I didn't learn in school how to listen to anybody because you can't teach that in school. I 

Rich Bennett 45:23
Right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 45:23
don't, I don't even blame the school, but they don't, you know, they don't teach psychotherapy in psychiatry school anymore because that's not important to be a psychiatrist. In order to be a psychiatrist, what you have to be able to do is from the, from your hip, be able to diagnose people, because once you diagnose people, now you're compelled to give them the treatment that comes with that line of thinking. So, I slap on some alphabet soup diagnosis for you and now I'm compelled to actually give you a form of treatment that's already supposedly pre-designed for that condition and that might include some medicines and we already know what the medicines do, the medicines perpetuate the conditions are marketed to treat. Right. So, when we're over-treated and under-heard, the good news is, is that like it sounds like who you are for your neighbors and who anyone can be, you can be the healer even though you've never gone to school for that or you've never received a degree or you don't even have any experience sitting around as a therapist or a counselor or a doctor or psychologist or psychiatrist, you can actually step in and be a healer by simply getting yourself talking your own truest voice and then connecting with another person. You can do that even if you didn't graduate the ninth grade, you can do that even if you, you know, you went to law school or if you went or if you grew up in Arkansas or if you grew up in New York City, it doesn't matter, you're a human being and what we've already decided or what I'm declaring out loud emphatically and unapologetically is that connecting with another person is the most profound and effective medication known to mankind and anybody can do that. Yeah, and that's where healing. That's where under her. If a doctor, you almost can't blame a doctor, you know, in some ways, a doctor's got 10 minutes to start taking responsibility for your life. It's a really odd part of what's like, of what being a doctor is. I thought about this last night and so it's come around to you today. Under what world does it that I am now responsible for how you manage your life? I want to know, like, you know, if I see you as a doctor and then next week you throw a hand grenade into McDonald's, how the hell is that even close to my responsibility? 

Rich Bennett 47:35
It's not. 

Dr. Fred Moss 47:36
But it is. See, I can get sued for that. I take responsibility as that psychiatrist for having not been able to preconceive the notion that you are dangerous enough to throw a hand grenade into McDonald's now you throw a hand grenade in the McDonald's one week or two weeks after seeing me and let's say I took you off a medicine or I gave you a funky diagnosis or I didn't give you a diagnosis or I reminded you of your mother dying or whatever. 

Rich Bennett 48:06
Right 

Dr. Fred Moss 48:07
now you like Dr. Moss said this and then they come after the doctor as if the doctor is responsible for the future behavior of this patient after they leave the office. I can't be responsible for your behavior no matter what you do 

Rich Bennett 48:23
now 

Dr. Fred Moss 48:23
and under zero moments that I'm responsible for your behavior even if you're with me so you know that we really it's pretty twisted way but so ultimately. If you rise above it all we have one thing that we can do that can really bring peace not only for us for freedom for us and that is to get ourselves clean with who we know ourselves to be and create that space so that we when we're connecting with another person when we're conversing and communicate can create that resonating harmonic relationship call the human connection that calls right at that moment for a catapulting leap into healing. Actually healing the conditions that didn't even exist in the first place. 

Rich Bennett 49:13
It seems like I'm glad you brought that up with the grenade thing because it seems like everybody not everybody it seems like they're trying to put the blame on other people associated with a person that does something wrong. 

Dr. Fred Moss 49:30
Right 

Rich Bennett 49:31
whether it be the doctor whether it be the parents 

Dr. Fred Moss 49:33
Right parents the same way 

Rich Bennett 49:35
or whatever. 

Dr. Fred Moss 49:36
yep yep exactly 

Rich Bennett 49:38
everybody's got their own 

Dr. Fred Moss 49:40
mind 

Rich Bennett 49:41
yeah. You know granted not everybody could be who is that I had on it they said it best not everybody's mind can be rebooted 

Dr. Fred Moss 49:51
yeah 

Rich Bennett 49:52
You could say like 

Dr. Fred Moss 49:53
yeah 

Rich Bennett 49:53
a computer 

Dr. Fred Moss 49:54
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 49:54
or whatever I'm looking at the time but there is something else I wanted to ask 

Dr. Fred Moss 50:00
okay 

Rich Bennett 50:01
especially with well especially since we're talking about mental health. If you could redesign the mental health landscape from scratch what would be the first three pillars you'd build it on 

Dr. Fred Moss 50:17
well the first three pillars the number one pillar is that maybe there's nothing wrong with you. Maybe there's really nothing wrong with you for real even if you know there is even if you're totally twisted and totally awkward and you got thoughts that bug yourself and maybe there's nothing wrong with you maybe you're just good as you are maybe you can self heal and how what do I mean by self heal maybe you can get yourself on a road that is actually satisfying and brings joy to your life it's possible to do that and the way to do that more than anything is to connect with other humans. The truth is if you're a meditating monk who lives in a cave that's a good way to do it to because you're really just creating yourself you know you're creating yourself aligned with a spirit or aligned with you know to bend it you're infinity and that's a fine way to find peace and that freedom as well. But more than likely you're going to have to go to the store you're going to have to go to the community you're going to have to lean on somebody to help you build how sir build up some are by some clothes or whatever you're going to buy. And you have to connect with other humans we are social beings at the very core so this idea that there's nothing wrong with you and that we are social beings that are very core probably the first two pillars and then the third pillar I have is you know really built on that would be something like. 

The medications in the present world the medications and the diagnoses are actually built to increase induce perpetuate cause and secure the diagnoses that your market that are marketed to treat and when you take them on. We'll use that elephant we're beating down this dead elephant is that you become that elephant and so when you agree to call yourself defective deficient and afflicted now you actually do become defective deficient and afflicted and you don't have to do that maybe for real there's nothing wrong with you and maybe by connecting with other people you can find healing that you didn't even know exist so. Psychiatric symptoms psychiatric diagnoses are made up they're totally made up they're arbitrary and they don't represent a true and honest organic defectiveness and you starting in this moment you are not stuck being the person that brought you to now. 

Rich Bennett 52:40
All right some other things I want to talk to you about tell us about the global madness madness film project what 

Dr. Fred Moss 52:48
do you know the global madness film project is dormant right now it stopped right it's. Oh, but we were up to good stuff. I had Anthony Bourdain. I thought I was going to 

Rich Bennett 52:56
Anthony. 

Dr. Fred Moss 52:56
be the 

Rich Bennett 52:57
Oh, 

Dr. Fred Moss 52:57
you know, the of the whole mental health system that I could go around the world because here's the thing psychiatric diagnoses are so arbitrary that if you go to different parts of the world. And you thought you had schizophrenia in America, and you go to Tandania, and you know, not now you're actually going to be giving a gift, you know, if you go to Australia, there's nothing wrong with you. You'd be elected for, you know, for official. If you go to. Um, you know, if you go to Reykjavik, you get an entirely different approach to what life is about. So I my interest at that time was to get some funding put together and have me go around the world and see how the same condition, how supposedly the same, not condition, the same behaviors or the same thought processes, get dealt with culturally specifically, and what it was like is that I was hoping to be able to show, and I know I could show it if I actually rekindled the project. Was that, um, you know, if you have a broken arm in, in Tuscaloosa or Little Rock, and you go to, and you go to Singapore, you still have a broken arm. It's called the broken arm. That's what you have. No, it doesn't matter where you are. If you got bipolar disorder in St. Louis, and you go to Reykjavik, guess what? You don't have bipolar anymore. Got something else. You know, they don't use the same condition because the things aren't real. They're not real. They're arbitrary. They're liquid. They're, they're, you know, they're. They're, um, they're fabricated. So when we can see that a diagnosis actually shifts depending on where you are in the world and what the culture is that you're living, we can learn once and for all that these diagnosis are totally made up. That was my intention. Global madness. 

Rich Bennett 54:33
Dr. Fred, you got to, you got to bring it back, you got to, 

Dr. Fred Moss 54:36
I know, 

Rich Bennett 54:36
you work on it. 

Dr. Fred Moss 54:37
I know. You're right. 

Rich Bennett 54:39
And you're, you're, you're taking a break from your podcast as well, right? 

Dr. Fred Moss 54:44
A little bit of a break from my podcast. We're starting off with the un-doctor podcast from around the corner here. I've had three podcasts already. I've dropped about 250 different shows. And they it was in welcomed humanity. The healthy healer and then another one, my third one with my buddy Sam, a little bit more irreverent of a podcast called insanity towards insanity. And we had it. We had it. We had a good time with that one. 

Rich Bennett 55:09
Well, I definitely want to get you back on. We haven't done one in a long time. And I need to. Uh, we have done, I think two virtual roundtables on 

Dr. Fred Moss 55:20
love that love that? 

Rich Bennett 55:22
I have you on. 

Dr. Fred Moss 55:23
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 55:24
But before I get to my last question, which I have no idea what it's going to be is tell everybody how they can get in touch with you. And 

Dr. Fred Moss 55:32
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 55:33
add, if there's anything you would like to add, add that as well. 

Dr. Fred Moss 55:36
Yeah. So I have a very cool website called Dr Fred 360.com DR Fred 360.com is a good place to find me and everything I have is somehow in there. And it's very cool. He set up very, very cool. And you can book a discovery call and you know, we can talk about how I can help you or whoever it is you want me to pay attention to in your life. And so I can offer that. That's normally I think a $250 value. I'll give that to your listeners for free. 

Rich Bennett 56:03
It is a nice site. I just pulled it up. Wow. 

Dr. Fred Moss 56:06
Yeah. It's a pretty cool site. And yet the other site I have is the one I'm building, which is that that one is almost ready to go. That's called the Undo, or called Undoctor reset. 

Rich Bennett 56:17
Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 56:18
com and really creating a community there. That's really fantastic. I love that project. It's really up and running. I got some great counseling and great partners helping me build that. And that's just helping people come off the, the, you know, coming off of the illusion that there's something wrong with them and really finding ways to come off those medicines and finding ways to help other people. not only come off their medicine, but lose the whole notion that there's anything wrong with you in a first place. So that's the purpose of that program. And 

Rich Bennett 56:50
for 

Dr. Fred Moss 56:50
I 

Rich Bennett 56:50
making connections. 

Dr. Fred Moss 56:51
They are making connections. Exactly. And we use school, SKOL Alex or Moses. 

Rich Bennett 56:57
Yes. 

Dr. Fred Moss 56:57
And we use mighty networks as well for a couple of different places where you can meet in the 

Rich Bennett 57:04
I got I didn't realize about the other websites. Now I got now I got to save them to my 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:09
community. 

Rich Bennett 57:09
favorites. 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:09
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 57:10
Me, you're going to me homework already. Dr. Fred. What's up with that? 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:15
homework like Miss Monroe gave to me. 

Rich Bennett 57:17
I wish I could remember my first grade teacher. This is going to bug the hell out. 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:22
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 57:23
I remember my sixth grade. 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:24
What city did you grow up in? 

Rich Bennett 57:26
I actually bought my parents house. I'm in Hartford County, Maryland. 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:31
Hartford County. 

Rich Bennett 57:31
Right on the Chesapeake Bay. 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:33
Nice, very cool. 

Rich Bennett 57:34
Yeah. I've always said, if I ever moved out of here, I wouldn't love to move to Connecticut. I don't know why I've never been to 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:41
Never 

Rich Bennett 57:41
Connecticut. 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:42
even been there. 

Rich Bennett 57:43
All right. Now, 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:43
All 

Rich Bennett 57:43
but 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:44
right. 

Rich Bennett 57:45
I just but it's like. Now I have no interest in moving because I have great neighbors. 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:51
There you go. 

Rich Bennett 57:52
Yeah, I mean, that's that's the big 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:54
That's 

Rich Bennett 57:54
thing. 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:54
all of it. It is. Yeah, you're 

Rich Bennett 57:55
it's 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:55
just 

Rich Bennett 57:56
that connection 

Dr. Fred Moss 57:56
underline at that point. Exactly. 

Rich Bennett 57:58
All right. So for my last question, I need you to pick a number between one and 100. And as I'm looking for the question, tell me why you picked that number. 

Dr. Fred Moss 58:08
There's a couple of numbers that come to mind. I think, you know, kind of stay away from 50. I thought a 73. Sometimes I'm guessing that number gets picked somehow frequently and 35 would be another one. 

You know, 23 is an easy one for all my athletic friends. I went to school in Chicago and 1984 was the year I started and the year 23 started. So I had season tickets for 23 in Chicago for the first four years of his career. And it was fun to be fun to watch Michael Jordan in his first four years of his career. Right. Well, I was in medical school. I went every, every time they were home. I went to Chicago Stadium and watched Jordan play. It was dude. It was 

Rich Bennett 58:51
23 is a great question to go along with what we've been talking 

Dr. Fred Moss 58:55
It 

Rich Bennett 58:55
about. 

Dr. Fred Moss 58:56
is. It is. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 58:58
What's a part of yourself, that you're still exploring or trying to understand? 

Dr. Fred Moss 59:05
I think that part of myself is that even I when I wake up in the morning, I wake up in some pain and I wake up, you know, not physical pain but just fear and dissolved and purposeless and ameless and there's some dread and it seems like it's repetitive and it's pretty painful. So just a few hours ago, I woke up and 

I wish that I could relieve that because it's it's just disturbing and you know, by the time I get up and I do some stretching and I do some meditation. I take care of my three Felines. I have these beautiful feelings in my house. I got three of them. They are amazing. 

You know, step outside, get myself a cold shower, take my remedy, then I start feeling strong again. If I can be involved in a strong conversation in the morning like you and I just had I can man up. What do I mean by man up. It's not about being a man. It's about being an job embracing the whole nonsense. Like actually. 

Rich Bennett 59:59
Yeah. 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:00:00
Taking a look at the whole thing and stepping into the craziness of what it means to be alive. And then, you know, and you know, even Buddha knew that it was crazy. He sat under that tree for, you know, days. Can you imagine this, dude. He's sitting under a bodhi tree for days, figuring out all life, right? And he's got it all figured out and then at some point he decides that he's going to get up. Right. At some point, he's like, okay, I think we're done. And but before he gets done, he's got to realize that he didn't resolve at least one thing. And that was that life has misery embedded in it. You know, he. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:36
Uh-huh. 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:00:37
He hasn't get up even though he hadn't gotten to the bottom of that one. Quite yet. Imagine that decision that man had to make, you know, because he had worked out everything else such that we're still very curious about what he had to say about anything that he had to say sure had a cool approach to so many beautiful things. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:55
Right. 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:00:56
But the one thing he never was able to unleash himself from is that life is as misery associated with it. And I wish I could, you know, I wish I could help people, um, manage your misery early in the day or more often than not because. Look, this human condition is difficult, man. It takes it takes quite a human to stay a human. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:15
Mm-hmm. 100% 100% there. 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:01:19
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:19
Well, Dr. Fred, I want to thank you so much. The door is always open. I 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:01:24
Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:24
definitely want to do a virtual roundtable. 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:01:26
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:27
And once I do, I will let you know and we'll make it happen. 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:01:31
I love it. Man, I can't wait to be on your table. That sounds. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:33
Thanks a lot. 

Dr. Fred Moss 1:01:34
All right. You're welcome. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:37
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you have a moment, I'd love it if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversations with rich Bennett.com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time, take care. Be kind and keep the conversations going. You know, it takes a lot to put a podcast together together, and my sponsor's helped add a lot, but I also have some supporters that actually help me when it comes to the editing software, the hosting, and so forth. There's a lot that goes into putting this together. So I want to thank them. And if you can please please visit their websites, visit their businesses. Support them. However you can. So please visit the following. Full circle boards, nobody does charcuterie like full circle boards. Visit them at fullcircleboards.com. Sincerely, Sincerely Sawyer photography, live in the moment, they'll capture it. Visit them at sincerelysoyer.com. The Jopatown Lions Club. Serve in the community since 1965. Visit them at JopatownLinesClub. org, and don't forget the E at the end of Jopatown because they're extraordinary.