Katharine Giovanni on The Power of Forgiveness and Healing

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Hey, everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we've shared laughs, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios Hartford County Living Presence conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
Today on Conversations with Rich Bennett, I'm joined by the remarkable Catherine Giovanni, a three-time award-winning, best-selling author, international speaker, and forgiveness and transformation coach. As a 12-year breast cancer survivor, and someone who has overcome 

intense struggles, including a dark moment in her youth, Catherine brings an incredible depth of wisdom and compassion to the topic of healing. Her latest book, The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness, Unlocking Your Power, introduces a truly unique system that helps people let go of pain and reclaim their power through the transformative act of forgiveness. And she's here today to share how forgiveness isn't just a concept. It's a life-changing journey. All right, I want to start at beginning, so what? And I don't mean when you came out of the womb. What actually led you to create your unique forgiveness system? And how did your own life experiences shape it? 

Katharine Giovanni  2:03
Well the fact that I call myself a forgiveness coach probably implies the universe has provided me with an over-abundance of things to forgive. 

So it started, probably when I was a believer or not, it started in the eighth grade. I was raised by some alcoholic parents, and I was terribly bullied in school because I was different. And I tried to commit suicide in the eighth grade, was 1974. Let's just out myself how old I am. And so I turned into one of those teenagers, you know, the kids I'm talking about, and just kind of floated to life until my mother, bless her heart. fell down a flight of stairs, broke her hip, and ended up in the hospital. And even my mother couldn't get a gin and tonic of the hospital, so she 

Rich Bennett 2:55
She 

Katharine Giovanni  2:55
glide out, and we centered a rehab. And then we spent the next three years closer than sisters. I mean we were tighter than tight. We practically finished each other's sentences. She got sober. We forgave each other. It was great. And then she died of breast cancer. And which I later got in 2012. And everybody's life, everybody's life has what I call flashpoints. You don't know, you don't know what's a flashpoint when you're going through it, but when you look back, kind of sites 2020 and you can see it and that was mine. And I knew without a shadow of a doubt if I didn't change my life, I was going to die. So I got drinking, which is the only new year's resolution I ever actually kept, been sober now for 35 years. And 

Rich Bennett 3:41
relations. 

Katharine Giovanni  3:41
Thank you. When you go through that, you have to go through... well, a lot of us go through AA and that kind of thing. And they want you to do something called make man's. 

And back in those days, I was really shy. And if we had had technology like texting, I would have easily texted these people happily, but we didn't. There was no text. You had a choice. You either call these people up on the phone and risk getting yelled at, or you had to see even a person. Those were the two choices. 

Rich Bennett 4:19
That was it. And that phone wasn't a camera at the time. 

Katharine Giovanni  4:21
No, no, no, which was great, but just 

Rich Bennett 4:25
yeah, 

Katharine Giovanni  4:25
listen to them. So I stumbled on the first part of our system by accident. I decided to forgive these people in the privacy of my apartment, New York City. And I did it all by myself. See, the thing about forgiveness is everybody tells you to forgive your pastor, your parents, your teachers. Okay, how. 

Rich Bennett 4:53
How? Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  4:54
Nobody teaches you how, and then on a 10 scale with 10 being an unforgivable dumpster fire, and one being the easiest person in the world to forgive, every single person listening to this broadcast right now is thinking of their number 10 person, which is completely fair, because they're the ones that wrecked you the most, and that's why everybody's their brain goes there, that's why nobody wants to forgive, nobody wants to talk about it, because you're thinking of the dumpster fire, but I'm the only one in the world that's going to look you in the eye and says you don't have to forgive me, unforgivable. Why stay with me? Because there are so many people places and things, I did say places and things, stay with me, don't click off, that you can forgive before you if you get to that person. In other words, I'm going to have you my system, which is a seven-part system, if the step by system, let back you get the word out. I'm going to start with the easy ones and you're going to work your way up to the dumpster fire, and we're going to talk about how to forgive the unforgivable in a minute, but that's how it started. It was started with that flash point and one thing led to another and I went into the concierge industry and on and on and on it goes, but forgive this has always been the core of everything I've done, even when I was in business, I stumbled back by at the turn of the century. Damn, that makes me sound so old when I. 

I got to stop wording at that way, but around the turn of the century at the risk of sounding really ancient, like Joe, heads, helicopters, I discovered that the more people I forgave in my personal life, the more money my company would some cereal up to your, and I'm a college girl and I thought forgiving my personal life, my parents and other people, why is that affecting my company's bottom line? Yet it was, there was a direct correlation and that's kind of how the journey all started. I kind of--that was kind of the building blocks of it to all how I got to here. 

Rich Bennett 7:04
Okay, first of all, stop saying it you're old because we're the same age, okay, age, is nothing but a number. Okay, think about it. We grew up in the best generation first of all. 

Katharine Giovanni  7:18
We had, hey, there's no good yield growth for anything we did. 

Rich Bennett 7:22
Yeah. 

Katharine Giovanni  7:22
It's really nice. 

Rich Bennett 7:24
We had the best music, 

Katharine Giovanni  7:26
nothing 

Rich Bennett 7:26
there's like it. 

I didn't realize that you were in recovery yourself. 

Katharine Giovanni  7:34
Man, I was. 

Rich Bennett 7:35
for-- 

Katharine Giovanni  7:36
I sober 

Rich Bennett 7:37
You are, yeah. I mean, that's awesome. But you mentioned something, and I wanted, I want to jump ahead. 

Katharine Giovanni  7:49
Oh, there's a lot 

Rich Bennett 7:49
What? 

Katharine Giovanni  7:49
to unpack with my stories. 

Rich Bennett 7:50
Yeah. 

Katharine Giovanni  7:51
Take your pick. 

Rich Bennett 7:52
Why 

would something or someone be unforgivable? 

Katharine Giovanni  8:01
You know, it has to do-- the unforgivable--we'll be back up before I talk about the unforgivable. Let 

Rich Bennett 8:08
Okay. 

Katharine Giovanni  8:09
me, let me squash some things that piece some ideas that people have some misconceptions about. 

Rich Bennett 8:15
Okay. 

Katharine Giovanni  8:16
First of all, just because I forgive you doesn't mean I want a relationship with you. 

Rich Bennett 8:20
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  8:21
I probably don't. I I have barriers in place. I don't want to have dinner. I don't want to go to that party. I'm, I forgive you, but I don't want to relationship. 

Rich Bennett 8:33
have-- 

Katharine Giovanni  8:34
Just because I forgive you doesn't mean you were right and I was wrong. It doesn't mean I'm giving you a pass all of a sudden. 

Rich Bennett 8:41
right. 

Katharine Giovanni  8:42
You're still wrong. You're still a dumpster fire. You probably still have to make a mess. I still want you in my life. The formal definition for me simply means I want you out of my head. That's it. I want to stop thinking about you. I want to stop dreaming about you. And when I'm wandering around, living my life, I don't want to be triggered anymore. And I have people say to me all the time, "You know, cats and a half done the work. I have forgiven them, but I keep getting triggered and I keep getting angry again." Because they go back to Thanksgiving and I have to see these people and I get angry again. How do I stop getting triggered? And that's the thing that's asked to the whole thing, to energy. You keep getting triggered because you didn't forgive the energy. Einstein clear-- and I will get to the unforgivable. Einstein clearly proved. Energy has either created more destroyed. It's simply transformed from one thing to 

Rich Bennett 9:37
It's 

Katharine Giovanni  9:37
another. 

Rich Bennett 9:38
right. 

Katharine Giovanni  9:38
When you get angry, everybody assumes and most people don't even think about it. When the anger leaves your mouth, it dissipates into the universe, kind of like a radio wave. It does not. It hangs around your energy field and will stay there until you clear it. 

Sciences also proved that everything on our planet has an energy field around it, including this little silver microphone that I'm talking into. It has an energy field around it, and it also will stay there. So that's why you keep getting triggered because you didn't clear the energy. So the affirmation, and I'm going to go through the step-by-step system, but the affirmation I want you to say is, I completely forgive Martha. I don't have it at Martha in my life. It's a very safe name. I completely forgive Martha. I forgive the energy around Martha. I completely forgive myself. I forgive the energy around myself. I forgive the energy around the entire relationship. And so it is. Go with God, Amen. Say whatever you want. That's the -- I'm starting from the middle, to be honest. That's the middle piece of the whole thing, but that's the thing. It's the energy that you didn't clear. That's why you're being -- you're being invisibly tied to the one person you don't want to be tied to. So when it comes to the unforgivable, they're up there. They're up there. That's why I want you to save them for last. I want you to do the easy ones. The person who took your parking lot -- your parking space at the grocery store yesterday. You could forgive them. Oh, about your supervolting that lost. I'm not from time has gone by. I think you can forgive them now. How about the person who stole your sum, which out of the lunchroom at work yesterday? You can forgive that person. We hope. Come on. That's being a little petty. You can forgive that. Or you could put a hot pepper in it next tomorrow and see what happens and you'll know who did it. 

Right? 

Rich Bennett 11:40
Oh. 

Katharine Giovanni  11:41
What a good pepper in there. No, don't do that. That would be me. I have a really dark sense 

Rich Bennett 11:45
humor. 

Katharine Giovanni  11:45
of 

I want you to start with the easy, easy people. 

Rich Bennett 11:52
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  11:52
And, you know, these are the people you have no problem forgiving. So, 

Rich Bennett 11:59
with that -- because you talked about the energy -- and we all know that negative energy is always stronger than the positive energy. It just hangs there. But you mentioned about -- you know, forgiving and all that. But, what about why? Shouldn't we also say why we forgive them? 

Katharine Giovanni  12:22
All right. There's some science to that. The why is very interesting. Because there's another thing that people bandy around without even thinking about it. And people will look at you and get in the eye and say, "Anger is toxic." Okay. Why? How? I agree that anger is toxic. It's going to give them stress kills, give you heart attacks, Drugs. I understand that. How? Don't tell me that without giving me a little bit more. Well, there was a study done in Japan called the Japanese Water Study. And if you just google that, it'll pop right up. And a guy, as a guy's name, has to moat something like that. Anyways, the interest of time I'll say it fast. He studied water. And he took several containers of water. One container of water, all he did was talk to it. And he said, "Beautiful, loving, gorgeous words to this water." The other container of water? Absolute hate, garbage. The worst thing he could say to anybody he said to this water. He then froze the water and put it under a microscope. The water he spoke love to had these gorgeous transformations. These crystal kind of things. The water he spoke hate to had these black and brown kind of sludgy formations that looked like it was kind of going into itself, these malformation. Why am I telling you this? The human body is over 95% water. So if your self-talk is bad, if you are holding angry in your heart that's been there for decades, What do you think you're doing to the water cells within your own farm? You're literally making yourself sick from the inside out. And what forgiveness does is literally transforming those water cells from dark to light. And it's going to open up your life. You're going to start to feel better. Coffee is going to start to smell better. I mean, it's like, and I know, I can talk people through this. It's official, but I'll talk to you. I'm holding a, I'm holding a purple coffee cup to the right side of my body. This cup represents anger and hate and all of these things, you know, maybe I'm holding a grudge. But when I first get angry, I could hold it off to the side of my body. Look, I can manage my anger really easily. But humans irritate other humans, don't they? And if you don't take anything out of this cup, you're going to keep putting more anger, more resentment, more bias all into this cup eventually it's going to get heavy. So now I have to use two hands to hold up the cup. My life hasn't stopped. You and I can still have a conversation, but look at my body language. Now I'm using two hands. It's kind of chipping me up. It's getting into my head now. And if I don't continue, if I don't forgive at all, eventually, it's all I can think about and all I can see. I'm holding the cup in front of my body right now. I can't see you anymore. I'm missing things. I'm missing opportunities, money-making opportunities, opportunities to get healthy. Opportunities to live a better life, get that dream house, that dream apartment. Why? Because I'm so focused on the anger, I can't see anything else. And I'm starting to get sick and tired because the water cells in my body are all turning. That's why you want to forgive. It's literally going to open up your life. And by starting with the easy ones, it's going to allow your anger to go from in front of your body over to the side again and look at my body language. Now my life has opened up. I'm seeing opportunities. I'm seeing things. And I haven't forgiven my unforgivables yet. I've only done the easier. 

Rich Bennett 15:59
Now

Katharine Giovanni  16:00
we can talk about the unforgivable. Now that I've stopped that. 

Rich Bennett 16:05
Now all that's interesting. And the thing with the water, it makes sense with 

Katharine Giovanni  16:11
Right? 

Rich Bennett 16:11
the water 

because, for example, the people that do the crystal rakey. All it does is just releases 

all them t- 

Katharine Giovanni  16:23
t- that's right. They're preaching, they're talking about the energy and the water cells. It's really, 

Rich Bennett 16:29
yeah, 

Katharine Giovanni  16:29
really what they're transforming, they're transforming those cells. Your body is 95% water that you're working with energy that's shifting those cells. 

Rich Bennett 16:38
I guess that's also why people feel better when they start losing, losing weight for a good reason not because they're sick. 

Katharine Giovanni  16:44
Right, that's right. 

Rich Bennett 16:46
Yeah, damn, that makes a lot of sense now. 

Katharine Giovanni  16:50
And that's why some people don't want to lose weight with all due respect. Don't email me. It's because of what? Because they're they're holding on to the anger. There's a reason why they're eating their troubles. So when this system will help you lose weight, there's a reason to buy the book. It will help you lose weight. There you go. 

Rich Bennett 17:11
Okay, so your system is teaching people how to forgive other people and how to forgive things. Does it also teach them how to forgive themselves? 

Katharine Giovanni  17:22
Yeah, this is the first book of three and I have a co-author. My one of my best friend is co-authoring the next one with me. And this one is going to be we're writing it now. And this one's going to focus on how to forgive yourself. You're going to take a deep dive into it so I can talk about it now. And it's going to take a very deep dive into the unforgivable and how to forgive money. Hello, 

Rich Bennett 17:43
Ooh. 

Katharine Giovanni  17:43
so that should be out later this year. But the system, I want you all to sit down with a pad of paper and a pen. I know that sounds old fashioned and I know you want to reach for your laptop, your PC, whatever. But there was a study done at Harvard University and they studied these kids, right? And they followed the kids through the years and they told half the class to just say there are goals out loud to the room. The other half were told to write them down. They followed the kids through the years and the kids who wrote their goals down were twice as successful as the who did. So something magical happened. 

Rich Bennett 18:22
Right, 

Katharine Giovanni  18:22
right. I also want people to do something really, really hard. There's an off button on your cell phone and I would love you to turn your phone off. Now if you're visibly twitching at the thought of turning your phone off, there's another magic button and it's called the mute button. Don't vibrate because then when it dances in your desk, you're going to want to look at it. I just want you alone in a room. All humans besides dog have to be out, little humans, big humans. I want you alone in a room. Okay. And then I want you to write down all the people you think you need to forgive. And the first three are going to be the people you would label a number 10. So these would be the unforgivable. The people that hurt you the most are probably the people you're going to write down first. The obvious ones. But I want you to keep going. I want you to think about when you were a kid in the sandbox. I want you to just write without thought. I want you to just use your intuition that gut feeling and just write a list of names. Don't judge the names. If you write down the name "Bob" and you don't remember the name "Bob"? Well, obviously they're going to be an easy one. Just write "No." And then, I want you to rate these people from 1 to 10, 10 being unforgivable, one being super easy. Now, you could have 20 number 7, I really don't care. You could skip a number, I also don't care. What I really care about is you start with the one. I want you to look at that first person. And then I want you to remember you're alone in the room. Nobody's there. It's not like a recovery program where you have to reach out and talk to these people. You do not. You don't even have to tell anybody you're doing this. You do it in the privacy of your own home. Forgiveness is selfish. That being said, you can forgive dead people because 

Rich Bennett 20:15
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  20:15
where they are or not, just a matter of looks because they're alive and well on your head. So if you didn't get closure with your parents and you're still alive, write their names down. Or maybe they're a 10 family really messes you up. Right? And I want you to look at that number one person and I want you to imagine they're standing in front of you. Now, if you're thinking of somebody you went to high school with, I want you to see the kid in front of you, not the adult, the email. 

Rich Bennett 20:40
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  20:40
Hey, I want the kid, the original kid. And then, same thing you like, get it out, yell, scream, cry, laugh, I don't care. Say whatever you want. If it's a level one person, you're probably not going to say anything. But it's all because it's really easy. Put your hand in your heart and that's really just to remind you to say the words from your heart because the words are just from us. It's really the energy. Say the affirmation that I said before and there's worksheets and stuff in the book. And then, once you say that affirmation, check in with your body. Does it is the level one person is zero? Great. Cross their name off. Was it a level three person and they're now a two? Okay. You're still a little angry? Okay. Wait 24 hours, do it again. Here's this happened to a really close friend of mine. It was a level four person. She did this exercise and she checked in with her body and it shut up to a 10. She really met. I saw 

Rich Bennett 21:38
it. Wow. 

Katharine Giovanni  21:39
In her face. What happened? Your brain is a most amazing tool and it protects you. And there's a closet in the back of your brain that's been turned locked for decades and in that closet is a movie that's been playing in the mind. You would turn it off. You knew it was there. You didn't know it was there. And what you just did is you set the magic secret code and your brain said, "Ooh, Catherine's ready for this closet." And it opened up the brain and flooded you with your brain. They didn't even know it's there. For contestants like an onion, you know, you just really, what you did is you cleared that first layer of the onion. Well, there's a lot of layers underneath. 

Rich Bennett 22:19
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  22:19
So this is a journey. It's not gonna happen overnight. You can't get a number 10 person dead to a one overnight. It's not gonna happen. This is something that you're gonna have to chip away at. And the tens are a bear. But there's a way to forgive the unforgivable. Now I can answer that question. 

Rich Bennett 22:37
Cool. But before the unforgivable one, I think this is something a lot of people don't realize. 

And I've gotten into arguments with people about this. And I've just said, just forgive them. And they're like, "Ah, I can't forgive them." I always go back to the man on the cross. 

Katharine Giovanni  22:59
Right. 

Rich Bennett 23:00
And my thing is, you know, we're not saying you forget, but forget. 

Katharine Giovanni  23:07
Okay. That's another thing that people-- 

Rich Bennett 23:08
I do. You're gonna 

Katharine Giovanni  23:09
forget. Okay. We're originally from New York City, and I can promise you with 100% guarantee that none of us forget. We don't forget. It's in our DNA. We're not forgetting anything. 

Rich Bennett 23:22
No. 

Katharine Giovanni  23:23
What I can promise you is, when you do this system, it's going to remove the emotional charge. So you can look at that person. You're not gonna care. Good, you're not gonna care about. You're not gonna care. That's natural. Remember I forgave an old-- I've had a lot of business partners. I've been around a long time, and I saw this person's name on Facebook one day. And usually that would send me flying for a couple of days 'cause the memory would come back. This particular day, you know, I do practice what I preach, and I had put her on my forgiveness list, and I forgave her. I got her all the way down to her home. I mean, I literally tossed it. And I saw her name-- I didn't care, even when 

Rich Bennett 24:01
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  24:02
I was just around over there and I actually stopped myself and I caught it and I thought, wait a minute. I don't care. I don't care. That's freedom. That's joy. It is out of your head. Now, what is that going to do for the person? Not a dorm thing. They're still awful. They're still doing whatever they're going to do, but you are free. You're absolutely free. 

Rich Bennett 24:25
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Katharine Giovanni  26:09
Oh, 100% it does. 

Rich Bennett 26:10
Yeah, I mean, with the anxiety, depression, oh my God. 

Katharine Giovanni  26:16
Well, here's how 

Rich Bennett 26:16
hears. 

Katharine Giovanni  26:17
it 

Rich Bennett 26:17
It's like that. I don't say it. It's lifting a ton of bricks off your shoulders. 

Katharine Giovanni  26:21
Well, that's when people forget that's what people might, my older son does this on a regular basis. And when he forgets somebody that's really big, he says that his shoulders feel lighter. Some people feel energy leave their body. Some people are really, really tired. So I really want you to do this the day before you go to bed. And I don't want you to do more than 10 at a time, because remember those water cells. Listen, I practice what I preach and I use myself as a guinea pig and I did my list. There must have been 50 people overachiever. I know, that's a shocker. 

Rich Bennett 26:51
Overachiever. 

Katharine Giovanni  26:51
And I wrote down and I thought this is going to be great. I'm going to be like a phoenix rising from the ashes. I'm going to be like a butterfly. I'm going to wake up tomorrow morning and this stuff is all going to be gone. Okay, the universe is a really good sense of humor and it did not end up the way I thought it was. I did forgive a lot of people on the list. This is true. I also ended up in bed with what everybody thought was a stomach flu for three days. Remember the water cells people. Your body heals itself when it's sleeping and if you do 10 or one number 10 high level person, it's one of the other. Your body can mitigate that energy and will clear it while you're sleeping. But if you do more than that, you're going to get a Native American Indian taught this to be about 20 years ago. They called it energy sickness, which means there's too much toxic energy in your body and your body has to toss it. And one of the ways it does it is, well, I gave you a piece of bad fish and you're not sick and it's you don't have a stomach flu. It's just your body's way of tossing and most people get tired, some people feel the energy, some people get hungry or thirsty, but do it before bed or at least right after dinner. So you have a couple of hours. Not everybody can just go to bed right away. 

Rich Bennett 28:08
Do you think that 

somebody can get to the point to where there is nobody that nobody left for them to forgive, but you mentioned earlier about forgiving some things? 

Katharine Giovanni  28:25
I did. I have literally written a book on this and I still practice this every night before I go to bed. Humans irritate other humans. There's always something to forgive. You can forgive anything. You can forgive politicians dare I say not going there. You can forgive the war in the Middle East. What's it going to do for the war in the Middle East? Absolutely nothing, but it's going to do brilliant things for you. CNN you can forgive it. You know, there's always something to forgive. How about the person who cuts you up on i95 staff? You could forgive these people. Now let's talk about the thing. Let's talk about the places and things that I was talking about. When you forgive the unforgivable, we'll use the bully in school because it's a really good. And if this is one of my own, I wasn't ready to forgive the bully. And I know it happened in the 70s, but you know, it was, it's, it bothers you. You 

Rich Bennett 29:17
this. 

Katharine Giovanni  29:17
carry 

Rich Bennett 29:18
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  29:19
And I wasn't even ready to forgive the energy around the bully to be quiet honest. I just didn't want to. So I picked apart the memory. It's like going to work if you're driving and you come to a red light. You always go left, but the little bird in your shoulder tells you to go right. So you trust your gut and you go right. That takes you by your old high school. And by the time you get to work, you're groovy. You had a brilliant morning. It was 70 degrees. It was you had coffee. It was just a real peaceful, beautiful morning, but you're groovy. You're cutting off everybody's head and everybody's saying, what's wrong? Why are you groovy? And you're like, I don't know. I had a great day. I shouldn't be groovy. Well, of course, you're groovy because your subconscious saw the ice or you were bullied there, and that closet, where that movie play, the movie started in your head. So how do you, how do you get rid of the trigger? You forgive the memory. You pull apart the memory. So I forgave my childhood school, the energy around the school. I forgave the desk, the chair. I forgave the classroom. I forgave the playground. I forgave the swings. I'm serious. I forgave the energy around these things. I forgave the people that stood around and didn't help me. The energy around these kids. I forgave New York City. Seriously, the energy around New York 

City, I forgave 1974. I actually sat and said, I completely forgive 1974 and the energy around 1974, 'cause that's the year I tried to get it suicide. I pulled apart the memory. And by doing that, I got that number 10 person down to a nine, and I haven't forgiven the person yet. 

Rich Bennett 30:58
Oh, wow. 

Katharine Giovanni  30:58
I get to apart the memory, and by that point, I was ready to start making a pass at forgiving the actual bully. Now, it took me weeks and months to get that number 10 person down to a one. It took me months to get to to forgive my father. But eventually, I got dad down to like a one or a two, and I was able to forgive him, but I did it by picking apart the memories. 

Rich Bennett 31:25
Wow. 

Katharine Giovanni  31:28
You can forgive anything. I had a client who used to have this boss, who made her cry, literally made her cry. And every morning when she was getting ready to work, she would cry in the shower because she had a family and she didn't want anybody to know she was crying, and she hated going to work. So by the time she came to me, she was a mess, and we did a lot of forgiveness work, and I had her forgive the shower. That's where we started. Forgive the shower, and the energy around the shower. That's where we started. 

Rich Bennett 31:59
I like that. Thank you for telling me that because now this gives me something to add to my morning routine. 

Katharine Giovanni  32:09
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 32:09
Because I always say a prayer before I get that, but I always say a prayer. I always say something down, "Great for four, and why?" Why not forgive something or someone? 

Katharine Giovanni  32:20
That's right. 

Rich Bennett 32:22
Oh, I really like that. All right, so now on to the Unforgivable. Sounds like a movie. 

Katharine Giovanni  32:29
Well, you know, you might be your own unforgivable, but let's take a really interesting, unforgettable. Let's use Aunt Martha, because my mother used to say, "Every family is the same, only the names of chan shouldn't. Every family out there has an Aunt Martha. I do not. That's why I use the name Martha." But she's an alcoholic, and she's a bad sloppy alcoholic, and she loves to poke at people. She loves to cause trouble, and she doesn't shower very much. So she smells, and you have to go to Thanksgiving with her every year. And your parents sit you next to her because I don't know why. You just always end up next to the woman. And it's awful, and it takes you a week to prepare yourself to go, and it takes you two weeks to come down from the ceiling after, because she knows where the buttons are, and she pushes them. and she makes you mad. And everybody around just kind of sits around and enjoys the show. And everybody ends up it ends up to be a big thing. So what do you do? You know you have to go every year. What do you do? Well, a few months or weeks before you have to go see beautiful Aunt Martha, I want you to start picking apart memories. My aunt Martha is a 10. You probably don't want to forgive her or the energy around her. You don't want to be in the same claim zone as her. I get it. I want to pick apart the memories. Take one things giving. Remember where it was. Remember what was served. I want you to forgive the table you sat at, the energy around the table. I want you to forgive the chair, the energy around the chair. I forgive the food, not kidding. Forgive the people that just stood around and watched. Forgive the buildings, the house that you were in, the room that you were in, the city that you were in. Forgive the grass, forgive the driveway, forgive the car that you had to drive to take you to this horrible place. 

And then, check in with your body. Are you able to make a pass to Aunt Martha? No? Okay. Pick apart another memory and do it again the next time. And by the time you get to Aunt Martha and Thanksgiving, is she going to be a forgivable like level one or two? Probably not, but you might have gotten her down to like a 5, 6, 7, which is doable. So by the time you get to Thanksgiving, what's going to 

happen? Aunt Martha, sadly, is going to be Aunt Martha. She's going to do exactly what you think she's going to do, but your emotional charge is less now. It might even be gone. You won't care. You might even laugh. You might even turn it into a drinking game and every but time she pushes a button, you take a shot. There's a sober person telling you to do that. 

I've been sober for 35 years, but my whole point is, you're going to laugh. You're going to expect it. 

Rich Bennett 35:19
Come 

Katharine Giovanni  35:20
back for it. You won't care. You might even just be one of those people who will just calmly leave the room, which will piss her off. The more you don't react, the more she's going to try. So now, at least for me personally, now it becomes entertainment for me because I know what's happening, and I'm going to get upset. The more upset she gets, the more I'm going to be a Susie sunshine from Sunnybrook Farm. I used to teach customer service, and I play by play with you. And I'll be a Susie sunshine. The more angry you get, I'm not going to smile at your face, but in my head, I'm going to be glad to do this kind of interesting thing. 

It's going to change, it's going to change the energy of the whole thing. As you forgive people, your family, your friends, people are going to notice they're going to come up to you, and they're going to say, did you lose weight? There's something different about you. What are you doing? You can tell them or not. 

Rich Bennett 36:21
You're going to have that glow around you. 

Katharine Giovanni  36:22
You will. But certain things are going to happen when you do this. Life energy attracts energy, so new people are going to be attracted into your life. Life like moss to a flame. 

Rich Bennett 36:33
Law of attraction. 

Katharine Giovanni  36:34
Which is really great. But to play devil's advocate, you're going to lose people too. You're going to have the jack ravits. These are people that have been rolling with you for a very long time. They've been tight and they just, they don't want to change. They see you changing and they take the first door and out they go. I've had a bunch of them in my life and they ghosted me. I've never heard from them since. Ever. Still back a fire. Then you've got Sabbath tours usually live with these people. They're family. They're really tight friends and they're like, I like the broken captain. I like the old you. I don't want it to change. So they're going to try and sabotage it. 

Rich Bennett 37:09
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  37:10
So there, you know, there's a very, very famous, famous saying that says, you were the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. So who you spending time with, now you get to choose. You get to choose. Forgive this is selfish. You're doing it for you. You're not doing it for anybody else. It's never for anybody else. You do it for you. 

Rich Bennett 37:30
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  37:30
And if you can't forgive this unforgivable person, listen, if you never can forgive the unforgivable, let's say it was a real bad trauma. Someone was raped or murdered. I don't know anybody who could forgive that. It takes a special soul to be able to forgive that. That's fine. Forgive what you can in the memory and keep going. If you can circle back later, great. If you never circle back, don't worry about Keep going. It's fine. 

Rich Bennett 37:58
You help people all the time as well, don't you? 

Katharine Giovanni  38:01
I do all the time. 

Rich Bennett 38:03
All right, so this is something I always love to ask my guest, especially the ones that are helping people. Can you share a feel-good story with us about somebody that you help and you don't have to use their name. You can use Aunt Martha again. 

Katharine Giovanni  38:22
You know, there's been a lot of people that have been helped by my forgiveness and I had somebody just a... I had somebody call me up and it was actually a podcaster and it changed her life so much that and it's happened to a couple podcasters to be out of their spin like there's been like a dozen of them and it changes their life so much you can actually see it in their face and the the whatever whatever they were carrying whether it was anger at their mother or their father their best friend or whatever happened you can literally see them change

Rich Bennett 38:59
Yeah

Katharine Giovanni  39:00
You're a different person their their physical symptoms were gone and she just she just it was it was like eating chocolate Sunday for the first time she you know they you almost don't know what to do because you don't have that over your head anymore 

Rich Bennett 39:17
Mm-hmm

Katharine Giovanni  39:17
it's like it's like going through something in the courts and the case finally gets settled and you walk out and your the sun is out and you're like okay now what do I do it's over it's over 

Rich Bennett 39:30
yeah 

Katharine Giovanni  39:31
that's how people feel 

Rich Bennett 39:34
wow so how if somebody 

needs your help how do they get in touch with you 

Katharine Giovanni  39:41
they could go to my website Catcher. Giovanni.com and thanks to my mother my first name is spelled a little odd thanks mom k a th a r i n e Giovanni.com you could also buy the book and it's on amazon i've got the audio book the ebook and the um the uh paperback available um and that's right on amazon and the audio book was produced by my younger son and we're still talking to each other you know it's 

Rich Bennett 40:06
as 

Katharine Giovanni  40:07
not with thank to do an audio I have mad respect for anybody who just voice over work or does that in movies you think they go into a studio and they just read a script and then they leave. 

Rich Bennett 40:18
No so 

Katharine Giovanni  40:19
know 

Rich Bennett 40:19
you you yourself 

Katharine Giovanni  40:21
I did I 

Rich Bennett 40:22
yes 

Katharine Giovanni  40:22
did 

Rich Bennett 40:23
self 

Katharine Giovanni  40:23
my 

Rich Bennett 40:23
nice 

Katharine Giovanni  40:24
I did 

Rich Bennett 40:25
good good 

Katharine Giovanni  40:26
I have two books another one is called the little bird in your shoulder it's about getting in touch it's your intuition and I did 

Rich Bennett 40:32
who 

Katharine Giovanni  40:32
the audio book for that one too 

Rich Bennett 40:35
now are you self published or did you go through publisher for all these 

Katharine Giovanni  40:38
well that's an interesting story 

Rich Bennett 40:40
uh oh good 

Katharine Giovanni  40:42
i published we've published some of my 13th book now i'm actually 

Rich Bennett 40:46
what 

Katharine Giovanni  40:47
published 12 yep and years ago um we decided to self publish because we learned that when you publish something with the big houses it takes funs to a year to get your book to press they can change anything they want within the body of the work because they own the rights and you only get a small percentage of the profits so my husband and I who were both serial entrepreneurs said okay wait this being the New we work and we formed our own publishing company called new road publishing which doesn't act we published one other person's book but we actually only do mine now and it's an actual publishing house and now we use um in-gram sparks anybody's thinking of writing 

Rich Bennett 41:33
yeah 

Katharine Giovanni  41:33
we use ingram sparks and when you're thinking of writing a book i'll just give you a little bit of help everybody thinks and like if you're writing non-fiction fiction is different but for non-fiction um you think have to come up with the title and go chapter one chapter two chapter three no just write 

Rich Bennett 41:51
right 

Katharine Giovanni  41:51
the title comes at the end just right i wrote one of my books um in the chemo chair on my cell phone because i was bored 

Rich Bennett 42:00
really 

Katharine Giovanni  42:00
yeah and i i told you it was a lot to unpack with with my story and the reason i did it is because i kept thinking of these things that i wanted to put into the book so i would just pick up my phone and i would write what i was thinking and before i know what i had a book 

Rich Bennett 42:15
wow 

Katharine Giovanni  42:15
that's how you write you just just start writing and at the end then you put it into chapters and you put it out 

Rich Bennett 42:23
there i can't even type on a phone my fat fingers are i'm like 

Katharine Giovanni  42:26
you can you get this audio you can recite it you can just there is 

Rich Bennett 42:31
you know what 

Katharine Giovanni  42:32
there is software now that you can just talk into the microphone and it magically write down everything you say AI would be happy to do 

Rich Bennett 42:41
that for you Kathy Katherine i tried that one time and hi no apparently i hit the wrong button and i was talking 

Katharine Giovanni  42:49
that 

Rich Bennett 42:50
kiss yeah they come back like what the hell are you talking a bell suddenly huh oh i'm sorry 

Katharine Giovanni  42:58
yeah you got disco into microsoft word and there's a little 

Rich Bennett 43:01
dictate 

Katharine Giovanni  43:02
there's a dictate thing in there 

Rich Bennett 43:04
yelp 

Katharine Giovanni  43:05
you make you know and just make sure you Bluetooth off but you'll be fine it doesn't look fluctuation though so you have to make sure you 

Rich Bennett 43:12
yeah 

Katharine Giovanni  43:12
stick home on period 

Rich Bennett 43:14
With everything that you're doing, all the books you're writing, all the people you're helping, all the podcasts that you've been on, how come you don't have your own podcast? 

Katharine Giovanni  43:26
That's a good question. I don't know. I'm thinking about it. I'm now committed to my son since I told you before we started recording, doing 30 videos in 30 days. 

Rich Bennett 43:37
I love that. 

Katharine Giovanni  43:38
It does imply I have to keep doing it after the 30 days, but I am to win it. I'm doing 30 videos in 30 days on six platforms. 

Rich Bennett 43:48
What all platforms I can follow more? Facebook, 

Katharine Giovanni  43:53
Facebook, Instagram, Threads, 

Rich Bennett 43:57
talk, 

Katharine Giovanni  43:57
LinkedIn, and TikTok been on their forebanging. 

See, before you're old woman on TikTok, I think... Let's put, 

Rich Bennett 44:07
Hey! 

Katharine Giovanni  44:08
people, my sons tell me that... 

Rich Bennett 44:14
I had a gentleman on... You get a chance looking up, David Griffiths. 

Katharine Giovanni  44:18
I will. 

Rich Bennett 44:19
And he is a social media influencer and he's R. 

Katharine Giovanni  44:23
Oh, I love that. So, the boys were right. There you go. 

Rich Bennett 44:26
Oh, yeah? Well, you think about it. 

Katharine Giovanni  44:27
They were very insistent. I'd be on TikTok. 

Rich Bennett 44:30
How old is the person that more or less invent the internet? 

Katharine Giovanni  44:37
Oh, they're probably their 70s at this point. Hey, listen. 

Rich Bennett 44:40
Right. 

Katharine Giovanni  44:41
But we are in generation taught you how to use a spoon. I'm just saying. 

Rich Bennett 44:45
But it was also our generation that really created social media if you think 

Katharine Giovanni  44:50
it. 

Rich Bennett 44:50
about 

Katharine Giovanni  44:51
I was teaching people via video and zoom before anybody knew what zoom was. I was doing teaching people how to start a business and I was doing it like 20, 25 years ago. 

Rich Bennett 45:03
I remember AOL chat. 

Katharine Giovanni  45:05
Yep, I remember that I remember if you're a musician, you remember the noise decay. You 

Rich Bennett 45:10
didn't... 

Katharine Giovanni  45:11
I was laughing on you could get coffee in a sandwich and we thought it was... 

Rich Bennett 45:15
It 

Katharine Giovanni  45:15
was so slow! And the computers were massive. I learned how to use a computer and the thing was the size of a room. It was 19, never mind. It was entirely too long ago. But yeah, you know, the reason I think our generation is pretty, is pretty cool because we kept up with the software. We kept up with the technology. Many of us did. 

Rich Bennett 45:39
Yes. 

Katharine Giovanni  45:39
I'm really kind of a geek. And kids today are so brilliant and so bright because they were bored with it. But we had to learn it. So don't, don't leave us out. 

Rich Bennett 45:49
But I think that's the other thing too with our generation. And this is something I've always told my kids. I don't care what you do in life. What your career is. Whatever. Not necessarily your career either with anything. Education never stops. 

Katharine Giovanni  46:06
No, 

Rich Bennett 46:07
You're 

Katharine Giovanni  46:07
no, every day, 

Rich Bennett 46:08
always learning. 

Katharine Giovanni  46:10
yep. 

Rich Bennett 46:11
And I just read something the other day, this book I'm reading about Henry Ford. And I don't even he didn't finish school. I don't think a 

Katharine Giovanni  46:21
lot of these really people did not finish 

Rich Bennett 46:24
Yeah, but what he 

Katharine Giovanni  46:25
school. 

Rich Bennett 46:25
said is if he didn't have the answers, he aligned himself with people that did. 

Katharine Giovanni  46:32
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 46:33
And that's how you learn more 

Katharine Giovanni  46:35
and more. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 46:35
So, before, well, we already gave you a website. So before I get to my last question, because you got to come back going again, like I said, there's a lot more I want to talk to you about. 

Katharine Giovanni  46:44
I'll be happy to anytime. 

Rich Bennett 46:47
Is there anything you would like to add before I get to my latest question? 

Katharine Giovanni  46:52
I think the only thing I ever really, really, really want to tell people is your worth it. 

You are worth it. You can do this. You know, a lot of women have this worth, you think they don't think they're worthy enough to have a good life. And I'm here to tell you you are worthy enough to have a life of happiness and have money in the bank and food at the table and a beautiful job and a beautiful place and a family and a relationship. This is your first right. You weren't meant to live in a refrigerator box on the street. You are worthy enough to live a life of love. This is your first right. And forgiveness is one of the paths that you can take to get

Rich Bennett 47:35
Those of you listening when you purchased a book, you can just go to Catherine's website. 

Katharine Giovanni  47:40
there. 

Rich Bennett 47:41
At books, I'm sorry, if you purchase the books, make sure you leave a full review whether it be on Amazon, Goodreads, wherever you can leave reviews. And if you got something out of it, buy a copy for someone else as well or buy several copies and pass them along because you're just helping other people. So Catherine, besides writing the next book, what is the next big thing for Catherine Giovanni? 

Katharine Giovanni  48:11
think the next big thing is just honest to God to keep doing videos and getting the word out about forgiveness. This is the first book of three to be honest so that's certainly in the future so it's just you know just getting the word out as fast as I can. 

Rich Bennett 48:29
Well you're doing it with all the podcast you're getting on that's for sure. I think 

Katharine Giovanni  48:34
if I can you know it's a world is broken it's broken and this system is something that anybody can do and you can do it in the privacy of your own home you don't even have to tell anybody you're doing it and that's why I'm trying to get the word out to get people to understand that it is possible and you don't even have to forgive the unforgivable you don't even have to talk about it just forgive the people you've written between one and eight. Do that. 

Rich Bennett 49:01
And just imagine if everybody followed this that means everybody would be fixed and the world would be 

Katharine Giovanni  49:12
thick. 

Rich Bennett 49:12
Well that would 

Katharine Giovanni  49:14
be fun. 

Rich Bennett 49:14
That would be fun. That would be great. 

Katharine Giovanni  49:16
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 49:17
The awesome. Catherine, thank you. 

Katharine Giovanni  49:20
I love this possible but I will I will I will I will breathe that in for a little bit. 

Rich Bennett 49:25
I don't know. Never say never. 

Katharine Giovanni  49:27
There you go. 

Rich Bennett 49:29
Catherine, thanks so much. 

Katharine Giovanni  49:31
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. 

Rich Bennett 49:33
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did. If you'd like to hear more conversations like this be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss a episode. And if you have a moment I'd love it if you could leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories. Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at conversationswithrich Bennett.com for updates, giveaways and more. Until next time take care. Be kind and keep the conversations going.