Podathon For Recovery: Karen’s Road to Recovery

Rich & Wendy 0:00
Welcome to a special episode of Conversations with Rich Bennett. This is a part of our part of our recoveries. 12 days of hope. Our mission to raise money for raise against addiction. My co-host Wendy Beck and I will be sharing powerful stories of addiction, recovery and resilience to help break the stigma and show that hope is always possible. Your support helps raise against addiction, provide life change and resources, and you can donate right now by visiting our GoFundMe link in the show news. We are so grateful you've joined us on this important journey. Now let's get into today's conversation. 

Wendy Beck 0:38
Hi it's Wendy and I'm here with Rich and we have a special guest that's going to tell us her recovery story for September's National Recovery Month. Hi Karen, how you? 

Karen 0:50
I'm good, how are 

Wendy Beck 0:51
you? I'm fine. We've had Karen on art. 

Rich Bennett 0:53
She's been on several times. 

Wendy Beck 0:56
couple of 

Karen 0:57
Yeah, 

Wendy Beck 0:57
times. 

Karen 0:57
a

Wendy Beck 0:58
Yeah, she's a, a tried and true guest. She's always here to share with us and be a part of the movement that we're doing, especially for National Recovery Month. 

Karen 1:07
Do 

Rich Bennett 1:07
little 

Wendy Beck 1:08
you want to 

Rich Bennett 1:08
bit 

Wendy Beck 1:08
talk a 

Rich Bennett 1:09
about 

Wendy Beck 1:10
recovery? 

Karen 1:11
Well, my journey started probably, I guess it's been about 21 years now, that it started, that. I am what you would call a quote, not typical addict in this, in the end by what I mean, and that is not a judgment at all. On my, it's, 

Wendy Beck 1:30
is this what you call towards? 

Karen 1:32
No, no, that's what the way society looks at who an addict is, what an addict is, 21 years ago, I didn't quote, fit the mold. 

Wendy Beck 1:41
Okay, 

Karen 1:42
I was in homeless, I wasn't shooting drugs, I, you know, I was in prostituting myself. I was a stay at home with two kids with way picket fence. 

Wendy Beck 1:53
Okay, 

Karen 1:53
my life looked absolutely perfect. I was a Girl Scout leader, the whole, you know, June cleaver type thing. 

Wendy Beck 2:02
So what was your drug of choice at that time? 

Karen 2:04
Pain pills. I had been in a car accident when I was 24 and I had hurt my neck and they couldn't fix it at the time. It was soft tissue damage, I thought. So they were it with opioids. Back then, they not only didn't really realize how addicted they were all the pharmaceutical companies were pushing them. 

Wendy Beck 2:29
Right. 

Karen 2:30
So it was the point of, okay, we can't fix our neck, she's too young to do surgery, let's give her some percuss at. And the first time, and I still remember the first time I ever took one, I felt like I had drank a six pack of beer. It was in like people get knocked out or get loopy or tired or whatever. It gave me energy. So that was kind of like the first red 

Wendy Beck 2:56
so you were, you were drunk off of it. 

Karen 2:58
Kind of, but without the hangover. 

Wendy Beck 2:59
Okay. 

Karen 3:00
And it gave me energy. It didn't knock me out, it me energy. And that, not knowing at the time, that should have been a real big red flag. So I took those for years with no problem. And if I felt like I was taking too many, I put them away and cut back and so forth. It took probably four or five years for them to really figure out what was going on with my neck. 

Wendy Beck 3:27
It was helping your neck. It was 

Karen 3:29
It would 

Wendy Beck 3:29
helping 

Karen 3:29
help 

Wendy Beck 3:30
with 

Karen 3:30
the pain. 

Wendy Beck 3:30
the pain. Okay. 

Karen 3:31
It definitely was helping with the pain. 

Rich Bennett 3:32
It didn't fix the neck. 

Karen 3:33
It didn't fix the neck, 

Wendy Beck 3:34
Right. 

Karen 3:35
but they had no idea it was wrong in order to fix it. And they would, it made me be able to function because it was to the point I used to get these horrible headaches from the muscles in my neck being tensed. 

Rich Bennett 3:46
And how old were you in this? 

Karen 3:48
25, 

Rich Bennett 3:49
25 and they say you were too young for surgery. This 

Karen 3:52
was 21 years ago, 

Rich Bennett 3:53
or do you think I was an excuse because they didn't know what was actually wrong? 

Karen 3:57
I think it was a combination because back then, the technology was not what it is now. Right. 

Rich Bennett 4:01
Right. 

Karen 4:01
And being able to like look through MRIs and nuclear tests and all that kind of stuff, they honestly could not figure out what was wrong. 

Wendy Beck 4:09
So the pain killers were the bandaid. 

Karen 4:11
They were the bandaid. 

Rich Bennett 4:12
Exactly. 

Karen 4:12
Yes, exactly. So I was like I said, I was taking them just kind of as needed type thing. And then over time, I realized one of the things that hit was that my mom was typical. My mom was coming out to visit and I had to have the house clean. So I was like, oh, well, I'm really tired. So let me take a percussette. That was the first time I used it for I used it for other than its medicinal purposes. 

Wendy Beck 4:43
Okay. But that was that was a couple years in. 

Karen 4:46
Yeah. Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 4:46
Okay. 

Karen 4:46
It was a couple years in. And then so that was I remember doing that. It's like, yeah, this probably is not a good idea. And that kind of like started it. And then it went from there, this was all right before 9/11. 

Wendy Beck 5:01
And you're still functioning. Your, 

Karen 5:03
Oh! 

Wendy Beck 5:03
your mom, your kids are good, 

Karen 5:05
your.. 

Wendy Beck 5:06
pain, your bills, your, 

Karen 5:07
Your 

Wendy Beck 5:07
your relationships good, all of that. 

Karen 5:09
Yeah. Nobody had a clue. So then 9/11 hit, and it was as, it affected everyone, and it really affected even though I didn't know, I didn't really know anyone there, but like the last podcast we did, I'm an empath, so I was picking up stuff, and I didn't know as an empath. 

Wendy Beck 5:26
Oh, okay. 

Karen 5:27
So I was picking up all these feelings and emotions from everybody, and this loss of control. At the same time, that's going on. I don't know if you remember, there was an incident, there was the DC 

Wendy Beck 5:39
exact, 

Karen 5:39
sniper. 

Rich Bennett 5:39
Yep. 

Wendy Beck 5:40
yep. I remember 

Karen 5:41
Same 

Wendy Beck 5:41
that well. 

Karen 5:42
My husband and my best friend were both working down in that area while that's going on. My husband was in the same parking lot, where a woman got shot. He had been there like four hours earlier. 

Wendy Beck 5:53
Yeah, I remember that. 

Karen 5:54
So, 

Wendy Beck 5:54
That was, 

Karen 5:56
basically 

Wendy Beck 5:57
ugh. 

Karen 5:57
it was, 

Rich Bennett 5:58
it 

Karen 5:59
was a loss of control 

Wendy Beck 6:02
with the pills at that 

Karen 6:03
No, 

Wendy Beck 6:03
point. 

Karen 6:03
with life. 

Wendy Beck 6:04
Okay. 

Karen 6:05
The pills helped me feel like I had a sense of control, 

Wendy Beck 6:09
because it was the only thing you could control. 

Karen 6:10
And what happened was I could take the pill and not be so anxious and not be so worried about what might or might not happen. Because I had no control over whether or not anybody would die, what if something would happen to my kids. I had no control over any of that. And it's interesting from working the program, because I am in a 12-step program. Working the program, I've seen that one of my biggest character defects is needing control, Which stems back to childhood and all that. 

Wendy Beck 6:44
right? 

Karen 6:44
So at the time, if I took the pills, I wasn't anxious. 

Wendy Beck 6:50
Now, were you dependent on them? If you stopped taking them or was the amount increasing? 

Karen 6:57
The amount increases. That's where it started. It probably within six months to year got to the point where I was doctors shopping. I always say, I say that I doctor shopping, 

Wendy Beck 7:09
yes, that's 

Rich Bennett 7:10
Oh, 

Wendy Beck 7:10
true. it's common. 

Karen 7:11
Back. 

Wendy Beck 7:11
Yeah. 

Karen 7:12
I always used to say back when I first started coming around, that I was an Oprah Winfrey episode. 

Wendy Beck 7:18
What does that mean? 

Karen 7:19
What I mean is, and I know god, nobody's gonna understand this because 

Wendy Beck 7:22
I mean, I know Oprah, I mean obviously, 

Karen 7:24
But she used to have a talk show where she 

Wendy Beck 7:25
yes. 

Karen 7:25
used to have people on that would talk about their lives, and how screwed up they were, but that you would never know it. 

Wendy Beck 7:31
Okay. 

Karen 7:32
So, here I am, a mom, a girl scout leader, kids go to private school, everything on the outside look perfect, loving relationship with my husband, etc. 

Wendy Beck 7:44
Can I ask if he ever questioned why you were using these or he just assumed it was for your neck? 

Karen 7:49
He assumed they were for my neck, and he would slowly notice it. But he is somewhat of an enabler, love one, but it's you know, it's, I had excuses. I mean, I really did have an injury that I needed them for. Did I need to take as many as I took a day? No. 

Wendy Beck 8:09
Right. 

Karen 8:10
And so it finally, at the end, it got to the point where I was taking, I was doctor shopping, meaning I was going to different doctors, there was some up in Delaware where I could go, walk in, be seen, you know, get a bunch of them leave. I was getting them off the internet because I had a, um, I had MRIs that showed a problem. So there were certain companies that existed 

Wendy Beck 8:34
at that time, probably 

Karen 8:35
time. Well here, that's one of the reasons I got clean, is because it got more and more difficult to do that. Because it used to be you could call them up, you had a consultation quote over the phone. Send them a, I think it was actually a facts back then, um, a copy of your medical records, and they would just write your script 

Wendy Beck 8:57
Well, 

Karen 8:57
for a lot more money than what it would cost 

Wendy Beck 9:01
right. 

Karen 9:01
to go to a doctor, but. So with my addiction, not only was I using a ridiculous amount of percussette, I was going into debt, my credit cards were maxed, um, and I was literally chasing down the UPS guy when I would run out of drugs, because I knew they were on the truck. 

Rich Bennett 9:23
Wow. 

Karen 9:24
I would, I would literally, God, I haven't thought about this forever. 

Wendy Beck 9:28
No, 

Karen 9:28
I would literally, no, it's good to remember. I would, I knew there was a shipment coming and I would, if I ran out, I didn't want to be sick. 

Wendy Beck 9:39
so you knew you were getting sick at this point, and you knew 

Karen 9:41
Oh, 

Wendy Beck 9:42
that was the reason, 

Karen 9:43
Oh 

Wendy Beck 9:43
obviously. 

Karen 9:43
yeah, I was going in with throughout. If I ran out, I was going through with throughout. I was taking... Back then, I think 10 milligram was the highest you could get and I was probably taking 15 to 20 a 

Wendy Beck 9:55
day. Oh my, wow. 

Karen 9:57
And quote, And quote 

Rich Bennett 9:58
15 to 20 milligrams or 15 to 

Karen 10:00
pills, 

Rich Bennett 10:00
20 pills, holy shit 

Karen 10:02
a day. 

Wendy Beck 10:03
So yeah, you would definitely start to feel the effects of that withdrawal 

Karen 10:06
immediately, 

Wendy Beck 10:06
sure. 

Karen 10:07
Yeah, yeah, and I was quote, functioning 

Wendy Beck 10:12
with a, with a, you know, 

Karen 10:13
I 

Wendy Beck 10:13
for 

Karen 10:13
thought I was 

Wendy Beck 10:14
life. Yeah, with the secret life, yeah. 

Karen 10:16
I was still thinking care, well, no, I'm not mine. I was, say I'm taking care of my kids, but I wasn't. Because my son was, my daughter was what, three at the time, maybe. So my son was eight. I'd hide up in my room. She'd need something. He'd help series, you know, she needs to drink or whatever I say, can you get it for? She wants something to eat. Can you get it for her? I would hide in my room. was, so was definitely, I was physically there, but mentally, 

Wendy Beck 10:46
I 

Karen 10:46
I wasn't, I was, I was, yes, I was an absentee mom, which breaks my heart. 

Wendy Beck 10:52
Right, I'm sorry. Yeah, 

Karen 10:53
so, but I was fortunate in that it didn't last super long. It was just a year or two, maybe two years, I guess that, to that extent. 

Wendy Beck 11:01
Right, 

Karen 11:03
and a couple times I tried to stop by myself. I know there's a problem. I'm just not going to do it, but with no outside help. 

Wendy Beck 11:09
Well, and at the time, correct me if I'm wrong, that people weren't talking about this. 

Karen 11:15
Not 

Wendy Beck 11:15
I 

Karen 11:15
at, 

Wendy Beck 11:15
mean, you were hiding it, but it was also not something that there was no recovery movement. There was no news about it. And again, you're not getting it off the street. You're thinking that you're getting it from doctors and, 

Karen 11:28
hmm, 

Wendy Beck 11:29
pharmacies online and that type of thing. So 

Karen 11:31
it's legitimate. I have a legitimate thing or injury and I'm going to a doctor to get it, even though it wasn't my real good 

Wendy Beck 11:40
doctor. Right, you're 

Karen 11:41
it. 

Wendy Beck 11:41
chasing 

Karen 11:41
Although I was getting it from my real good doctor as 

Rich Bennett 11:43
well. 

Wendy Beck 11:44
Right. 

Karen 11:45
And what, 

Wendy Beck 11:45
and he had no idea that you were doing 

Karen 11:47
of 

Wendy Beck 11:47
all 

Karen 11:47
course not, of course not 

Wendy Beck 11:49
well. 

Karen 11:50
You know, and I look like you would never know, like a little lady walking down the street with, it was an old then. But you know, you would walk in down the street. You'd have no clue when people found out, like my daughter's friends, you. 

Wendy Beck 12:05
Okay, so how did they find out? Like what got to that? What took you to that point of 

Karen 12:09
They 

Wendy Beck 12:09
people? 

Karen 12:10
didn't even know until I told them after I got inkling. No one knew. 

Wendy Beck 12:14
Even your husband, 

Karen 12:15
he knew 

Wendy Beck 12:16
like, 

Karen 12:16
he was 

Wendy Beck 12:16
so how did you get clean without anyone knowing? Like what was the process of that? 

Karen 12:21
I was tired of hiding. I was tired of trying to hide the credit card bills from him. I paid all the bills so he never knew. So I would hide the credit card bills which were in the thousands. 

Rich Bennett 12:34
Wow. 

Karen 12:35
Wow. Then chasing down the UPS guy, if I needed my medicine when, and at the time that's what I thought it was. And it would be like on a weekend, I'd have it delivered to my neighbor's house so he wouldn't see it. Because he knew what was in those boxes. He caught me a couple times and why are you getting it questioned it? And I'd have my neighbor get it or God forbid it's snowed and the UPS guy couldn't come. 

Rich Bennett 13:05
that's 

Karen 13:05
Because then I would be sick and it's a cliche but I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. And I said, I need help. I can't do this. I tried a couple times on my own and I kept going back to it. My family said, I can't do this. There's a problem. Well, yeah, it's 

Wendy Beck 13:21
not safe 

Karen 13:22
Well, 

Wendy Beck 13:22
either. 

Karen 13:22
it wasn't even, it wasn't the sickness part because I had gone through times of not having any and I would be sick and it felt like the flu and that kind of stuff. It was just a mental aspect of it, the reason behind the addiction. I wasn't dealing with it, so therefore I wasn't going to be able to stop. So I went to a place 

Wendy Beck 13:43
that again because I really think that that is extremely important for people to 

Karen 13:48
stop. And I got to try to remember what I said, the reason behind the using is what had to be dealt with, just the using because, and this is my opinion, it may or 

Rich Bennett 14:02
not 

Karen 14:02
may not be right, but for me, it's what I feel. The addiction is just a symptom of deeper trauma, deeper things that are going on. 

Wendy Beck 14:12
People don't get that, but in all of the recovery stories that I'm going to diverge for a second, but in all of the recovery stories that we've been telling this month. Not every single one, because some of them will say I had a great childhood. You know, all of these things, but, you know, there's usually some underlying thing that's feeding this that we're trying to numb, we're trying to isolate, and then even if that doesn't happen, the shame becomes your trauma. Okay. 

Karen 14:46
Yeah, and for me, and I've seen it with a lot of people with the clients that I have, with people I know through the rooms, it, a lot of times boils down to some trauma. And trauma is an interesting word because people don't always, there's a lot of emotional trauma out there that people don't realize. And for me, that's what it was. Physically, I had no trauma. 

Wendy Beck 15:08
I don't think that I would have believed that before until I witnessed it with my own eyes with people from my own family. And trauma that you have and trauma that I have may not look the same at all, but how it affects us, it doesn't really matter what it was. 

Karen 15:27
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 15:27
It was the worst thing that ever happened to us. 

Karen 15:30
and it's people will say, I didn't really have any trauma. I had a great childhood, I had this, I had that. But it could be parents fighting, it could be 

Rich Bennett 15:40
Yes, 

Karen 15:41
watching, you know, they're for me, watching somebody in the family get it, you're safe, you weren't touched, you were loved but somebody else in the family. 

Wendy Beck 15:49
Food insecurity is bullying 

Karen 15:52
anything 

Wendy Beck 15:53
mental 

Karen 15:53
security, 

Rich Bennett 15:54
health 

Karen 15:55
mental health, 

Rich Bennett 15:55
there's more mental trauma than there is physical. 

Karen 15:59
And hopefully that gets talked about more because that is a huge, huge thing. 

Wendy Beck 16:04
I think it's coming around. I mean, it's taken a long time for the addiction piece to be talked about and again, there are people who still don't want to accept the fact that it's a disease. You still have people who don't want to support people who are judgmental. But I think that we've come to a point. And anymore, we really 

Rich Bennett 16:26
can. 

Wendy Beck 16:27
We cannot 

Karen 16:27
deny it's an old saying walk a mile and my shoes and then you'll say, yeah, I was, when this all really the addiction started, I think when it got out of control. I was 36, 37. 

Wendy Beck 16:44
OK, 

Karen 16:45
I guess maybe. 

Wendy Beck 16:46
Did you go to treatment? 

Karen 16:47
What I did was I went to a place that's actually not even around anymore, drove myself. And to be evaluated to see what was going on. And I remember it was the hardest thing of my life because I went there not knowing if I was going to be. An impatient and not see my kids for 30 days, or I was going to be able to walk out and do outpatient treatment. I had no idea walking in there. And the thought of leaving my kids for 30 days just broke my heart. 

Wendy Beck 17:17
Yeah. 

Karen 17:17
But 

Wendy Beck 17:18
not uncommon. 

Karen 17:19
I didn't have a choice. 

Wendy Beck 17:20
Some people don't get the help. Yeah, 

Karen 17:22
but I had to get the help for them because I wasn't a mom that I wanted to be as it was. So I have remembered 

Wendy Beck 17:28
ten years now, right? You started when you were 24 now you're 36. 

Karen 17:32
No, it was like, up using them. 

Wendy Beck 17:35
Yes. 

Karen 17:35
it was probably about two or three years. 

Wendy Beck 17:36
OK, 

Karen 17:37
I had them from like 24 to 35. And would just use them as needed, like literally one or two a week. 

Wendy Beck 17:44
OK. 

Karen 17:45
But then like 9/11 happened when not 11 happened. And the DC shooter happened. That's when it started. 

Wendy Beck 17:53
OK. 

Karen 17:53
I found that I could calm my anxiety by taking a pain pill. It had never been a whole lot a big drinker. I was in high school. I was, but you know, that was always, oh, well, all the jocks drink. And you know, that, I always just wrote that off. Although there were times I would go out. I would get back out drunk. And there would be times I would go out with the sole intention of drinking heavy that night. 

Wendy Beck 18:18
Right. 

Karen 18:18
But we all did that once in a while. So I didn't. 

Wendy Beck 18:21
It wasn't it wasn't a thing back 

Karen 18:23
No, 

Wendy Beck 18:23
then for people. 

Karen 18:23
it was a social. Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 18:25
It was a right of passage. I'm saying that because, you know, when I found out that my daughter was like using marijuana, like at, you know, a young age back, you know, long time ago. 

Karen 18:37
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 18:38
I was kind of like, oh, this is the face. This is the face she's going through. You know, like, you don't know what to do at the time because, you know, I mean, hey, we all have things. We have, you know, we drink 

Karen 18:52
done 

Rich Bennett 18:52
I'm 

Wendy Beck 18:53
alcohol. 

Rich Bennett 18:53
not disagreeing with you. 

Wendy Beck 18:54
Whatever. And you don't like think, well, it's going to lead down that path because I didn't even know that that path existed. 

Karen 19:01
Right. 

Wendy Beck 19:01
For her or for anyone? 

Karen 19:02
Right. We all do it. And 

Wendy Beck 19:04
Yeah. 

Karen 19:04
like I said, no one talked about the fact that, you know, my father was a functioning alcoholic because he would get up every day. He would go to work. He supported 

Rich Bennett 19:13
me. 

Karen 19:14
And his drug of choice was beer. So he wasn't drinking the hard stuff. Now my neighbor down the street. Her father drank a quarter of vodka every night. 

Rich Bennett 19:24
Or cheese 

Karen 19:24
or something or a fifth or I don't even know what it was. But, you know, and he had the big belly. He did a certain liver. He was not calling. 

Wendy Beck 19:32
Right. So 

Karen 19:33
My 

Wendy Beck 19:33
there 

Karen 19:33
dad wasn't. 

Wendy Beck 19:33
was this comparison that people were doing, that what made you an alcoholic versus what did not. 

Karen 19:38
It wasn't even discussed. It was I was told before I was the youngest of five. My sisters are older than I am. When they were little, he was full-fledged, you know, angry, yelling, fighting, that kind of stuff, alcoholic. He had mellowed by the time I come along. That's what I heard. He 

Wendy Beck 19:56
Right. 

Karen 19:56
had mellowed. So I honestly did not even realize my father was an 

Wendy Beck 20:00
Gotcha. 

Karen 20:00
alcoholic. Until I got married and moved out. And I'm like, most people don't drink like a six pack of beer every night, and a case or two every weekend. 

Wendy Beck 20:09
Right. 

Karen 20:10
You know, that was just 

Rich Bennett 20:12
how is there unfortunately. 

Karen 20:13
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 20:13
I mean, it's 

Karen 20:14
A lot of people. 

Wendy Beck 20:14
it's it's common and there are 

Karen 20:16
find 

Wendy Beck 20:16
people who 

Karen 20:16
him, but he would sit in the chair. He'd read his book. He'd be quiet. He's at the drink his beard. Read his book and go to bed. 

Wendy Beck 20:22
You get to a point where you're having a physical dependency. And it's you it might not even be something that you have to. You know, do, but 

Rich Bennett 20:31
Right. 

Wendy Beck 20:31
it's the whole like one of my trying to say, like the habit of it, the routine of it, 

Karen 20:37
and I'm sure I mean, he had his own demons. He was we talked about this last time. He was a marine in World War two at the age of 17 in the South Pacific. So he had his own demon. 

Wendy Beck 20:46
Yeah, he had his trauma. 

Karen 20:48
had his own demons. 

Wendy Beck 20:49
He 

Karen 20:49
And um. But 

Rich Bennett 20:50
in his 

Karen 20:51
I guess 

Rich Bennett 20:51
kids, we see, we, we just think it's, 

Karen 20:53
it's normal. It's normal. This is what that did. Um, so and and that kind of partly is into me currently. 

Wendy Beck 21:00
Okay. 

Karen 21:01
Because what happened was I, so I, 

Wendy Beck 21:04
went, 

Karen 21:04
I 

Wendy Beck 21:04
have you been, how long have you been clean from 

Karen 21:07
Pills 

Wendy Beck 21:07
pills? 

Karen 21:08
21 years. And thank you. I went to treatment. Look, thank God I was able to do outpatient. And I remember sitting there them doing the whole interviewing and stuff of me, basically crying the entire time. They suggested that I start doing a 12 step program and calling my doctors and letting them know. That I was an addict and could not have anything. 

And twenty one years later, I can tell you exactly where I was coming home from. From there, uh, I was on 95 if I 43 coming to my house. So when this was a GBM say, so you know, an hour drive picked up the phone called my doctor in Delaware to tell him that they had to mark my chart. That I was an addict and do not give me any. And when I hung up that phone, the grief, I felt was as bad as the grief I felt on my dad 

Rich Bennett 22:03
died. Wow. 

Wendy Beck 22:04
because it was, you were 

Karen 22:06
I was done 

Wendy Beck 22:06
losing 

Karen 22:07
I 

Wendy Beck 22:07
something. 

Karen 22:07
lost it. Yeah, I told, that was my main connection. And the grief of not being able to get the grief, the fear, the everything of 

Wendy Beck 22:16
a, 

Karen 22:16
not being 

Wendy Beck 22:17
but you did it. 

Karen 22:18
I did it because, you know, thank God I'm stubborn in some ways it took good thing. 

Rich Bennett 22:23
No, no, but something you said because a lot of people would think that it would be a relief. But you, like what you said, it was grief. 

Karen 22:33
I was my, it was my life line. 

Rich Bennett 22:34
Yeah. 

Karen 22:34
That's how I dealt with life. And I did not have that anymore. So how was I, how the hell was I supposed to do 

Rich Bennett 22:41
Uh 

Karen 22:41
that? 

Rich Bennett 22:41
huh. 

Karen 22:41
How was I supposed to function now that I didn't have, 

Wendy Beck 22:44
so how did you? 

Karen 22:46
NA. 

Wendy Beck 22:47
Okay. And how did that start for you? He said, you need to do a 12 step program. So at that point where you like, what is that? 

Karen 22:55
I, I didn't know what it was. I was at that. I had finally been defeated enough that I was willing to take suggestions. So that same night I went to my first NA meeting. I walk, I laugh about it now because I walked in there. And this, I grew up in a very judgmental home. And I walk in this room, and I can still see it. And the meeting Monday 

Rich Bennett 23:20
Mount, 

Karen 23:21
night at meeting is still there. And I walked in and I look around and there's people from all walks of life, but especially back then, people with like tattoos all over their bodies, tattoos on their faces, people missing teeth, the whole nine yards. 

Wendy Beck 23:38
up the, 

Karen 23:38
I grew 

Wendy Beck 23:38
the stereotypical 

Rich Bennett 23:39
time, 

Wendy Beck 23:39
addict at the 

Rich Bennett 23:40
right? 

Karen 23:40
Yes, I grew up in a white middle class family. That was very judgmental. And I'm walking in, looking at everybody and it is literally the first time in my life. I felt comfortable and I felt at home. 

Rich Bennett 23:54
Wow, 

Karen 23:57
here comes this soccer mom with the minivan and it walking in the door that I had on the outside, look like I had nothing in common with these people. And it was the most comfortable place I ever felt. 

Wendy Beck 24:12
Once they started 

Karen 24:13
talking, no immediately, 

Wendy Beck 24:15
immediately, you 

Karen 24:16
have that, you have, well, I have that ability, but yeah, I felt it immediately. And I remember, I remember because my one friend, who was a sponsor sister back then, laughed, he's is me about it, because when, when you first go to the meeting, they let people who are new introduce themselves if they, if they want to, just so that people could know who you are, and you can get phone numbers and so forth. And I remember not knowing how it all worked, I raised my hand, said my name, and then proceeded to tell my whole story, crying my eyes out, rate the very beginning, and they were great, they let me do it. And at the end of the meeting, a ton of women came up, they were hugging me, they were loving on me, telling me it's okay that I'm not a piece of shit. 

Sponsors started working, the staff started listening, started sharing. Because it's time, and even today to some point, I have trouble being vulnerable, you know, and letting people in. 

Wendy Beck 25:17
I think a lot of us do, 

Karen 25:18
Yeah, 

Wendy Beck 25:18
yeah. 

Karen 25:18
yeah, yeah, a lot like, being the daughter of a marine, that was kind of like, you don't show emotion. 

Wendy Beck 25:26
Okay. 

Karen 25:27
So, you just don't let 'em 

Wendy Beck 25:29
see. And when you stuff your emotions, that's never good. 

Karen 25:33
Yeah, no, it comes out eventually. 

Wendy Beck 25:34
yeah, exactly. For whatever reason, even, you know, when you just have like a more emotional child, and they, you know, like to express, would like to express themselves, you know, often in a very emotional way, and you as the parent are like, you're You're fine. You're fine. You're, you're forcing them to stuff that in, and it's going to come out later. 

Karen 25:56
Oh, 

Wendy Beck 25:56
So, we need to let it come out. 

Karen 25:58
That's why I have a job. 

Wendy Beck 26:01
can talk about that as well. What is your job? I mean, 

Karen 26:04
We 

Wendy Beck 26:05
we'd 

Karen 26:05
Well, yeah, this is more about the recovery part, 

Wendy Beck 26:08
write. 

Karen 26:08
but it's, but it's helped a lot 

Wendy Beck 26:10
Okay. 

Karen 26:10
is that it's, um, I'm a Ricky master 

Wendy Beck 26:13
Okay. 

Karen 26:13
intuitive counselor. 

Wendy Beck 26:14
Gotcha. 

Karen 26:14
So, I help people, energy healing, and we pull out traumas, help people remove, which are about the people storing. There's a really great book. It's called The Body Keeps the Score. 

Wendy Beck 26:23
Yes. 

Karen 26:23
It's an, it's an older book. It's been around. I'm like, I wrote it when he was first studying everything. He was dealing with Vietnam veterans first coming home. So give you an idea how old it is. Um, but it talks about people holding trauma in their body, and it'll come out somehow. Sometimes it comes out physically with people having aches and pains that are where it's coming from coming out with people with autoimmune diseases, they're finding more and more fiber, my aussia. That kind of stuff. 

Wendy Beck 26:51
Yes. 

Karen 26:51
A lot of that is trauma. 

Wendy Beck 26:52
I completely 

Karen 26:54
so 

Wendy Beck 26:54
agree. I mean, 

Karen 26:55
I, 

Wendy Beck 26:55
my opinion matters because it is 

Karen 26:57
And 

Wendy Beck 26:57
science. 

Karen 26:57
yes. Yes. So I work with that. I work with helping people remove those traumas so that way 

Rich Bennett 27:03
move. 

Karen 27:03
they can 

Wendy Beck 27:04
So, so that's not the end of your, what you said, that's where your journey began, but that wasn't you. 

Karen 27:11
Unfortunately, 

Wendy Beck 27:11
go. 

Rich Bennett 27:11
no, 

Wendy Beck 27:11
You didn't just go from there and, 

Karen 27:14
I would love to say. I would, I was about to say, I would love to say 

Rich Bennett 27:19
that. 

Karen 27:19
That's where it started 21 years later. Here I am. But I'm also grateful that that's not weird and because I learned a lot. I wound up being in a program for probably eight years or so. Um, and then I started backing away. I started thinking I started judging people in the rooms, which is all clichés. You hear the stuff like you know, it's well, the first part let me back up because it was really difficult at first because 

it's easy to judge yourself out of the room and compare, more compare yourself out of the room. Like, I don't belong here, you know, because of whatever reason. And for me, it wasn't that I didn't belong there. It was because I'm better than you. It was, I don't belong here because I don't have as many issues you do, so I don't deserve this chair. Somebody else should have it. I was going back 21 years back then they knew nothing about pain pill addiction. So when, and I actually would have people say, Why are you here? You just choose painkills. And because I wasn't shooting dope, where I wasn't doing hair or winter coat, or whatever else may be out there, you know, drug of toys or whatever. I was at destitute. I had a house. I, on the outside, everything look perfect. And that's what I meant by the Oprah Winfrey story. Everything looked perfect on the outside 

Rich Bennett 28:40
inside. 

Karen 28:41
inside I was 

Rich Bennett 28:42
I was, yeah, 

Karen 28:43
dead literally dead. 

Wendy Beck 28:44
Well, you were hiding a pretty big secret that if you had not taken that, made that decision to get help, you don't know where you would have been. 

Karen 28:53
Oh, 100% 100% 

Wendy Beck 28:55
because those doctors would eventually have stopped at some point. 

Karen 28:58
And then I, it's like, and that's one of the things that always scared me and I'm very fortunate is that the quote worst drug I ever took was percuss that knowing it would lead to heroin, which is the next step. And I knew that it scared the shit out of me even back then. 

Wendy Beck 29:14
Right. 

Karen 29:16
So 

Wendy Beck 29:17
but you didn't go back 

Karen 29:19
to that. No, now I was able to. ..with, help of a lot of people, help of a- of a 12 step program, a lot of working the steps help me see things, see my own personal issues, why I was doing what I was doing. 

was good, quote, 

Wendy Beck 29:53
I 

Karen 29:54
which way you'll hear that a lot, I was good. And I was just like, I'm just getting irritated at the meetings, and at the time I had gotten rid of a sponsor, and hadn't picked up another one yet. So I was without a sponsor to kinda hold me accountable, and to start, stop going. And for a bit it was fine, you know, 

Wendy Beck 30:18
One 

Karen 30:18
well, 

Wendy Beck 30:18
thing we really haven't touched on this, and 

Rich Bennett 30:20
mm-hmm. 

Wendy Beck 30:21
if I can, 

Karen 30:22
Sure. 

Wendy Beck 30:22
talk to me, 

Rich Bennett 30:23
the 

Wendy Beck 30:24
importance of the sponsor. Yeah, I feel like we just use it so- so loosely, like when we talk about it, but they- it's really a very big piece of recovery for a lot of people. 

Karen 30:36
It's huge. Because the sponsor- the sponsor you have, hopefully, and if not get another one, in my own opinion, is someone that- 

Technically, if you read the literature, a sponsor is someone to go over the steps with. 

Wendy Beck 30:52
Okay. 

Karen 30:53
The steps are there's 12 steps to help you in recovery, moving forward, everything from first step, admitting your powerless over your addiction. And it goes always forward. So technically, a sponsor is there to work the steps with you. You answer the questions, they go over them with you. 

Wendy Beck 31:12
I think it's evolved since 

Karen 31:13
But 

Wendy Beck 31:14
beyond that. 

Karen 31:15
That's, yeah, that's just to quote technically. 

Wendy Beck 31:17
Okay. 

Karen 31:17
But what should happen is, you form a relationship. I know, I form a relationship with someone who knows you inside and out, they know your deepest, darkest secrets. Because when some of those, like the fourth step is listing, we take a personal inventory. So you're listing all your good and your bad. And then you have to share it with somebody. That's probably the scariest step for a lot of people. And because you're literally telling your life, it's really a- it's a very, it's a very freeing step, I think. But it's scary when people do it for the first time, I've done it a few times. But it's, actually, I'm going it again now. But it's, you list your resentments, but then you list the things you've done, things you're ashamed of thing or everything. So it's, it's out there, 

Wendy Beck 32:05
right. 

Karen 32:06
And it's, I mean, technically it's things you've already done. So it's not anything new that you don't know about. You're just bringing it to light. And then you share it with someone else to help remove it. And 

Wendy Beck 32:17
there's no shame because they're there for you. 

Karen 32:20
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 32:20
Right. 

Karen 32:21
Yeah. And there's no judgment. There's absolutely no judgment. And what the really wild part is for my experience, and a lot of people have said this when you may have something that happened to you that's you think is completely unique. There's no way in the world anybody else has gone over this has had this happened to them or that did something. My spot, I had something like that and I told my sponsor and she's like, oh, I did that too. No, so say they could relate. It's 

Wendy Beck 32:49
right. 

Karen 32:50
like it's, it's like 

Wendy Beck 32:50
It's the 

Karen 32:51
your higher power can give you whatever you want to call your higher power God, the universe, 

Rich Bennett 32:55
real, 

Karen 32:56
whatever the rooms kind of put you with the right person to help understand that. And so the sponsor is a person to lean on so that when you're feeling your feelings, which is what for me, the disease of addiction is a disease, the feelings and when you're having those feelings and you don't know what to do with them, you don't know where to put them. You can call your sponsor and you can say, hey, I'm feeling off from feeling this or and they can walk they've already worked the steps and they have the 

Rich Bennett 33:31
because 

Karen 33:31
experience and they can help you see things clear. 

Wendy Beck 33:37
Thank 

Karen 33:37
you. 

Wendy Beck 33:38
Thank you for clarifying because I mean, sometimes we talk about things and we just assume our listeners know what what we're talking about, especially this. I really love everything that you're saying because I feel like it's giving a true picture of what the program can do for people because I know a lot of people sometimes are judgmental about that. They don't want to do that not me 

Karen 33:59
call 

Wendy Beck 34:00
whatever it is, but obviously I've seen the results of 

Karen 34:04
yeah, 

Wendy Beck 34:04
it and it's a it's a beautiful thing if you do it right. 

Karen 34:07
Yeah, it is and it's not easy. I mean, it's the you'll hear a phrase a lot that says, it's a simple program for the people. 

Wendy Beck 34:16
Okay, I like that. 

Karen 34:18
And it's very true, 'cause we as addicts 

Wendy Beck 34:21
try to- do this 

Karen 34:22
we 

Wendy Beck 34:22
but 

Karen 34:22
have to- We try to- 

Wendy Beck 34:23
Right. 

Karen 34:24
Oh, yeah, we have to complicate it as much as we possibly can. Do this, okay? Yeah, well let me try this first, and other kinds of stuff, and uhm, ya, it's- the fact that-and this is the interesting thing, is there's people- you'll meet people in- and, again, not everyone does 12-step programs, and there's different- there's- nowadays there's a whole lot different- more programs, I would say. Like there's some for, like, all paths which is- and there's- there's a bunch of- 

Rich Bennett 34:53
Christian- You're 

Karen 34:54
there's 

Rich Bennett 34:54
covering it- 

Karen 34:55
there's all kinds of recovery 

Wendy Beck 34:56
and recovery can mean a lot 

Rich Bennett 34:58
programs. 

Wendy Beck 34:58
of things 

Rich Bennett 34:58
Right, 

Wendy Beck 34:58
to a lot of people, and- and, uhm, we support that for them, because that's no different than maintenance. That's no different than, okay, I'm not using my drug of choice, but I am using medical marijuana. I'm not promoting any of this. Like I'm not, I'm just saying, when you said all paths, I wanted to make it very clear that- that all paths means a lot of different things. 

Karen 35:21
Mm-hmm, yeah, and that's- that's one great thing about rage, is that you guys don't judge, and that you've always been there for people, and that you have resources for anyone who needs help. 

Wendy Beck 35:30
Yes, 

Karen 35:31
and that's- that's- that's- huge for 

Wendy Beck 35:33
Right, 

Karen 35:33
the- 

Wendy Beck 35:33
well, because what is the saying? You know, what? Meet them where they're at. So, you know, when someone comes to you, you know, I mean, Rachel's really created this, you know, you're- 

Karen 35:43
she's 

Wendy Beck 35:43
you're- 

Karen 35:43
amazing- 

Wendy Beck 35:43
you're 

Rich Bennett 35:44
Starting 

Wendy Beck 35:44
starting 

Rich Bennett 35:44
from 

Wendy Beck 35:45
here. 

Rich Bennett 35:45
here, we don't really 

Wendy Beck 35:46
care about 

Karen 35:47
from- 

Wendy Beck 35:47
there, starting 

Karen 35:50
So, I left for a number of years, was quote, clean for a while, as far as from pills or anything, or alcohol even, and then one day I picked up a glass, I was at a steakhouse, picked up a glass of wine, because thought I could. And that one- every once in a while, no big deal, that kind of stuff. Looking back, it's like, "Yeah, I wasn't drinking a lot, but I was spending money. My addiction was acting out in different ways." And that's the thing with addiction that a lot of people- it's not necessarily just drugs and alcohol. It can be "shopping", it can be gambling, it can be sex, it can be porn 

Wendy Beck 36:32
control, it can be work, 

Rich Bennett 36:33
Backo? 

Karen 36:33
yeah. Yeah, yeah. It could be people who 

Rich Bennett 36:36
are working, 

Karen 36:37
they have to work- 

Rich Bennett 36:39
You 

Karen 36:40
just have to do it. They have to get it done, and they don't feel- It's any- okay, this just came to me. It's any way to get outside of yourself. in my opinion, obviously, I'm not an expert, for me it's like, it's any way to get outside yourself, and 

Wendy Beck 36:53
So, 

Karen 36:53
looking back. 

Wendy Beck 36:54
Where did the wine take you from there? 

Karen 36:57
It went from a glass of wine here and there to me drinking a bottle of night. What? 

Rich Bennett 37:04
A 

Karen 37:05
night? 

Rich Bennett 37:05
A night? Wow. 

Wendy Beck 37:05
Every night? 

Karen 37:06
Oh yeah. 

Wendy Beck 37:07
Oh, wow. 

Karen 37:07
It would just be a small bottle. It's where I started, and then 

Wendy Beck 37:10
I 

Karen 37:10
we- 

Wendy Beck 37:10
think they're- I think they're all the same. 

Karen 37:11
Oh no, there's big bottles, and there's- 

Wendy Beck 37:13
Well, there is, obviously, I know that, but- 

Karen 37:15
Oh, no, because then it went to the big bottles. 

Wendy Beck 37:17
Oh, wow. 

Karen 37:18
Yeah, so- 

Wendy Beck 37:19
Okay, so, how is your family seeing this? 

Karen 37:22
It- It killed them. It really just hurt them, and it was, like I said, you know, my husband got love them, and he's been amazing through all this journey, and- But he wouldn't really say anything. He's non-confrontational. It was more of my son who said stuff, and would try to get me to stop. It was my daughter, ultimately, that she was a senior in high school, and what happened was, she was my youngest. I was fortunate to be able to be mainly a stay-at-home mom. I didn't have- I worked, but, direct sales, that kind of stuff, so- But my main focus was raising my kids. She was getting ready to go off to college. I was all up in my head about not being a mom anymore. You're always a mom, but like, I- 

my son was still home, but yeah, I wasn't needed anymore. 

Rich Bennett 38:16
Well, 

Karen 38:17
That was- That's the words I was not 

Rich Bennett 38:18
It's 

Karen 38:18
in. 

Rich Bennett 38:19
heartbreaking, too. 

Karen 38:19
Yeah, and I did not know what to do with myself, and it was grief. I was grieving the loss of having my kids little, and again, it all goes with the addiction, and the mental thinking, and all that kind of stuff, so I was drinking to forget. And it got to the point where my daughter basically pulled me aside one night and said to me, "If you don't get help and if you don't start going back to meetings again, you're not coming to my graduation." 

Rich Bennett 38:45
Wow. 

Karen 38:48
Yeah, and God's lover. Actually, she's coming home today, so she lives in Arizona now. I'll see her for a while. You got to get weight. But, yes, I can still remember that conversation. 

Wendy Beck 38:58
And that hit you? 

Karen 39:00
Mm-hmm. 

Wendy Beck 39:00
Hard. 

Karen 39:01
Oh, we are hard. Real that just got me right in the heart. It just got me right where I needed to be hit because she wouldn't before that She wasn't saying a whole lot my son was the one who would speak up and 

Next day I went to a meeting on a Tuesday night that was 

eight nine years ago and I've been that's been my home group ever since I actually when I met Rachel 

Wendy Beck 39:26
Okay, 

Karen 39:27
she was just coming into the rooms when I was coming back 

Through myself into it 90 and 90 got a sponsor did the 

Wendy Beck 39:36
Did 

Karen 39:36
whole 

Wendy Beck 39:37
you go to treatment? 

Karen 39:38
Treatment 

Wendy Beck 39:38
Okay, no 

Karen 39:39
has not been a part of my story It is for a lot of people and it's nothing wrong with that at all. 

Wendy Beck 39:43
I was just curious 

Karen 39:44
Yeah, no, I've never gone away to treatment 

I'd been I've been able to 

With the steps and with a sponsor and so forth 

Wendy Beck 39:55
No, did you need to detox at that time? I'm curious 

Karen 39:58
No, 

Wendy Beck 39:59
Okay, right 

Karen 40:01
no because I was drinking a lot, but it was point I had many mornings where I had my head over that porcelain God 

praying that I would stop throwing up because of just having so much alcohol on my system 

But now I was 

trick weekly I was fine. 

Rich Bennett 40:20
Your 

Karen 40:21
My was mental 

Rich Bennett 40:21
tearing your daughter in the back of your 

Karen 40:22
My 

Rich Bennett 40:22
head, 

Karen 40:23
treatment was mentally. I needed help. I need to figure out what 

Wendy Beck 40:25
right? 

Karen 40:25
was going on and why I why I was turning to alcohol to not feel Right Because that was the big thing is to not feel. I did not want to feel I was extremely unhappy. I was sad. I was depressed Feeling the blank and alcohol took care of that for me. I thought 

Wendy Beck 40:43
Did we ever explore therapy or anything like that? Oh, no, I know now you in your profession you Are very in tune with your 

Karen 40:53
feelings 

Wendy Beck 40:53
of other people, but 

Karen 40:55
Interesting thing is when I had my son I had gotten post-partum depression. That was 30. Oh my goodness almost 31 years ago right, and I got in post-partum depression, which that wasn't talked about back then either. You didn't talk about any of that 

Wendy Beck 41:09
Right, 

Karen 41:09
kind of stuff So I had been in therapy for years for that. 

Wendy Beck 41:13
Okay 

Karen 41:14
For years and it had helped but 

Full disclosure I got more help from working the 12 steps of NA Then I did from the thousands of dollars. I spent in therapy Okay I learned more about myself. I learn more, which is why you know You know, I'm still in NA I still belong to NA even though alcohol has become One of my problems has become my main focus my main problem is a drug and 

But I choose to stay in the NA 

Wendy Beck 41:49
What's the difference? I mean in all honesty like is there a difference is it just basically a choice in small tweaks 

Karen 41:55
Between the programs. 

Wendy Beck 41:57
Yeah 

Karen 41:57
main difference. It's they're the same steps. 

Wendy Beck 42:00
Okay 

Karen 42:00
The whole program was started by someone 

with an alcohol problem 

Wendy Beck 42:05
Bill W. 

Karen 42:06
Yeah, and 

Wendy Beck 42:07
Okay. 

Karen 42:07
He wrote the 12 steps For me what I have found found to be the difference and some people may disagree but with AA it's very God 

Wendy Beck 42:19
Okay, 

Karen 42:20
and it's also they Talk about the 12 steps. They only physically write answers to questions for I think two of them maybe three The rest are just talked about okay Where with NA It's not it's spiritual base but not God base and by that. I mean Your higher power you what you'll hear is some in the literature will mention God But by that they mean higher power, whatever you choose to call your higher power some people call it The rooms a higher power can be whoever you 

Wendy Beck 42:54
right 

Karen 42:54
want it to be It's basically higher power something greater than you that can help keep you from using Okay Some people have a god some pee and a lot of people have issues addicts have the issues when they first come in the room with the word God 

Wendy Beck 43:07
I'm picking your higher power 

Karen 43:09
Yeah, because they had like I grew up Catholic my god with punishing 

Wendy Beck 43:13
right 

Karen 43:13
He's not now, but he was so some people have grew up with no idea what a God is So they the literature says higher power something 

Rich Bennett 43:24
you 

Karen 43:24
greater than 

Rich Bennett 43:25
And 

Karen 43:25
that could be the rooms. It could be your sponsor It could be there's one woman who has 47 years clean When she first started her higher power was her chickens 

Wendy Beck 43:36
Okay, 

Karen 43:37
she's and I have never forget the story. She goes she would go outside and talk to her chickens Whenever she 

Wendy Beck 43:42
it 

Karen 43:42
was 

Wendy Beck 43:42
got her through 

Karen 43:43
it 

Wendy Beck 43:43
right 

Karen 43:43
got her 

Wendy Beck 43:44
it 

Karen 43:44
through 

Wendy Beck 43:44
got her through I know nature is very healing for a lot of people mother nature and gosh 

Lots of stuff, but yeah, so there is no one's eyes fits all higher power 

Karen 43:56
With it 

Rich Bennett 43:57
you 

Karen 43:57
with it was there quote higher power, but then they also write every step. The step one has 

Rich Bennett 44:05
69 

Karen 44:06
questions. 

Wendy Beck 44:07
Whoa. 

Karen 44:07
To answer. Yeah, it's a workbook. I should have brought it with me. It's 69 questions. And some of the questions repeat themselves in different ways so that you're answering the same question again. 

Wendy Beck 44:18
It really 

Karen 44:18
thinking, 

Wendy Beck 44:18
gets you 

Karen 44:18
but it gets you thinking. 

Wendy Beck 44:20
And that's journaling is. So it kind of gets your mind and you're putting it down on paper. And you're evaluating yourself. 

Karen 44:27
And you have a sponsor who evaluates you with you. 

Wendy Beck 44:31
so 

Karen 44:31
That's, 

Wendy Beck 44:31
what qualifies you to be a sponsor? That there is no. 

Karen 44:36
Well, there's no technical qualifications. It, see, I'm old school in the sense that when I first started coming around, the sponsor had to have worked all 12 steps before they could sponsor anybody. And so typically you have some time under your belt. And that's the difference where with AA, you can do all 12 steps in six months 

Wendy Beck 44:56
Okay. 

Karen 44:56
because you're talking about them. 

Wendy Beck 44:58
Right. 

Karen 44:59
With NA, it takes years. Because of the fact that it's, like I said, first step is I think 16 and questions. And then you have to go over with your sponsor and you dive into your answers to those questions. What am I powerless over? Hmm. And then you listen, that's like, 

Wendy Beck 45:15
I mean, I've, you know, I don't struggle like with, with that, but I have always said that I would like to do the step work. 

Karen 45:23
I think everybody 

Wendy Beck 45:24
step. 

Karen 45:24
should do the 

Wendy Beck 45:24
I do too. 

Karen 45:25
I 

Wendy Beck 45:25
I, 

Karen 45:25
really, and I have 

Wendy Beck 45:26
it 

Karen 45:26
said, 

Wendy Beck 45:27
transforms. It does have whatever he did to make that happen. He dug deep. And applies to everyone. 

Karen 45:36
I have said that for years that every person should work the 12 steps. 

Wendy Beck 45:40
I agree. 

Karen 45:41
I am taking the book when 

Wendy Beck 45:42
I haven't. Yeah, but I aspire to do that. Yes. 

Karen 45:45
It just because it makes you look so things. And then you have like I said, the first step is taking a personal inventory. So you look at your life and you look at things, you look at one of the first questions that ask, and of course, step is, who do you hold resentments like against, and why? So you can really dig into that and say, well, do I really, should I have the resentments? Should I have this? 

Wendy Beck 46:05
Everyone does 

Karen 46:06
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 46:06
about something. 

Karen 46:07
Yeah, but 

Wendy Beck 46:08
Does it stem back to 

Karen 46:08
is 

Wendy Beck 46:09
your 

Karen 46:09
it 

Wendy Beck 46:09
parents 

Karen 46:09
even 

Wendy Beck 46:09
or, 

Karen 46:10
you? 

Wendy Beck 46:10
right? 

Karen 46:11
And just having a conversation with my sponsor the other day, because the things that are going on in my life right now. Your comment to me was, resentments have no room in your recovery. 

And it's very true. Because resentments lead to anger, which 

Wendy Beck 46:29
And 

Karen 46:29
leads. 

Wendy Beck 46:29
it's living in the past as well. 

Karen 46:31
Exactly. 

Wendy Beck 46:33
And I notice that the recovery and I don't know if this is part of the steps, but the gratitude, replacing resentment with gratitude and being appreciative for the life that you have now today. And there's a lot of people who have a lot of stuff and they don't have the gratitude and their life that they need. 

Karen 46:49
That's huge. Gratitude is one of the sayings and people call it cliches is that a grateful addict will never use. There's actually a home group called the gratitude group. That was my first home group when I first started 21 years ago. It's still around. But it's all about being grateful. And I can't by having times over the years. Either I've told sponsor, or my sponsor has told me 

Rich Bennett 47:11
one of 

Karen 47:11
the best, or so forth. Just go ahead and write a gratitude list. 

Wendy Beck 47:15
Well, we've learned a lot about the program today. And I think it's important because we've been talking to people about their stories over the past. Gosh, we started recording in February, 

Karen 47:26
a 

Wendy Beck 47:26
about 

Karen 47:26
year and a half. 

Wendy Beck 47:27
Recovery month and we've had some amazing. Well, maybe we didn't start recording, 

Rich Bennett 47:30
I 

Wendy Beck 47:30
but we started 

Rich Bennett 47:31
think you're right. 

Wendy Beck 47:32
planning in February to find these people and it evolved because we wanted stories 

that would be powerful and we never really touched on this. So this is actually very eye opening for our audiences to hear, you know, kind of like inside the program and what those steps actually do that transform because most of the time it's like, oh, I went to treatment and then I did this and then now I'm good. But what does that sponsor? What do those steps do? And how can we, how can we dive down to like let people understand that, yeah, it might be scary. But it's part of the process. 

Karen 48:09
Oh, it's it's hard. It's really hard to do to be vulnerable and to let someone in, let people in, but it literally will save your life. And I know for just myself when they talk a lot about self will and use doing God's will higher power, if you will. And taking getting ready 

Rich Bennett 48:31
yourself decide 

Karen 48:33
for you. And that's kind of where I am right now with things because of having control. I started this process of addiction as far as using pills because I didn't have control. 

I relapsed when my daughter was going away to college because I had no control. I unfortunately relapsed again about three years ago with alcohol because, even though alcohol wasn't part of my story, I relapsed with the alcohol again because even though I relapsed with alcohol and that's why I came back again, my brain was still not computing that I'm an alcoholic. 

Wendy Beck 49:19
Okay, 

Karen 49:20
and is probably important to 

Rich Bennett 49:24
this 

Karen 49:24
say is that it literally was not until five months ago, literally, that I was able to make the statement out loud that I'm an alcoholic. 

Rich Bennett 49:36
Wow. 

Karen 49:37
Even though alcohol is a drug, and 

Wendy Beck 49:40
what changed for you to make you be able to say that? 

Karen 49:43
I, over the past three years, have only been able to get semi-months clean at a time because I would drink, 

Wendy Beck 49:50
and you would think that that wasn't the problem. 

Karen 49:52
Oh, I knew it was. I just would like, okay, well, I'm going to drink tonight. I'll go to my meeting tomorrow, and I'll pick up a one-good day cue tag, or I wouldn't get one. I wouldn't tell anybody. It wasn't like I would go on a bender and be going for weeks. I would drink at home and hide it, try to hide it, got you the point where it wasn't working anymore. And we all think, we're addicts, they're smarter than they are when they get to that point. Everybody knows what's going on. And with my new sponsor that I had, we started working the steps. And it's so crazy because it's such a tiny little piece of things. I could not admit I was an alcoholic because of the impression it gave from when young. 

Being called an alcoholic, realizing that my dad was an alcoholic was a bad thing, and it was negative. And I could say, I'm a drug addict with no problem. I'm a drug addict. 

Rich Bennett 50:53
can become a 

Karen 50:54
I'm 

Rich Bennett 50:54
couple. I'm an 

Karen 50:54
an 

Rich Bennett 50:54
addict, 

Karen 50:54
addict 

Rich Bennett 50:54
I'm a couple. 

Wendy Beck 50:55
and -- I 

Karen 50:56
I could say that with no problem. And my sponsor actually laughed at me and said, Karen, you realize it's much more socially acceptable to be an alcoholic than it is to be a drug 

Wendy Beck 51:06
addict. I guess it's really all in who you 

Karen 51:08
Because 

Wendy Beck 51:08
talk. 

Karen 51:08
it really is, not in my house. 

Wendy Beck 51:11
Right. 

Karen 51:12
But even when I first got out for the drug addiction, my mother would look at me and say, you're not an addict. Yeah, mom, I am. No, you're not. You're not down living on the streets. You're not homeless. You're not shooting drugs in your arms. Yeah, I -- yeah, that image 

Wendy Beck 51:28
Right. 

Karen 51:28
people had. Yeah, it doesn't look like that anymore. But it's the -- you know, so it was the fact of me finally after 60 years of my life admitting that I'm an alcoholic. And I had to literally go to meetings and call myself that on a regular basis in front of people. This is the first time in public that I have said that word. 

Wendy Beck 51:51
How do you feel? 

Karen 51:52
Empowered. 

Wendy Beck 51:53
Okay. Well, you 

Karen 51:55
-- 

Wendy Beck 51:55
know 

Karen 51:55
because I'm fighting my disease. I'm saying, you know what? You know, I -- yeah, I have an issue. And there's no shame in that. 

Wendy Beck 52:01
Right. 

Karen 52:01
It's something that, you know, 

Rich Bennett 52:04
I 

Karen 52:04
drink. 

Rich Bennett 52:04
can 

Karen 52:06
I can't have -- 

Rich Bennett 52:08
because 

Karen 52:09
if I have one, maybe I could -- then that's going to get things started in my head. And it's going to get that disease active 

Rich Bennett 52:15
but 

Karen 52:15
again. And that's kind of what happened was three years ago I had surgery, and I was given pain pills. And I was not 

Rich Bennett 52:24
active. 

Karen 52:24
super 

Rich Bennett 52:24
I was sick in my program. 

Wendy Beck 52:25
Right. 

Karen 52:26
You know, the program helps. I watched -- I took care of my father-in-law for seven months while he was in hospice at my house. I took care of him. I 

Rich Bennett 52:34
watched 

Karen 52:34
him die. 

Rich Bennett 52:35
His life was like four months 

Karen 52:36
later. My mom gets sick, goes into hospice, and dies four weeks later. 

Wendy Beck 52:39
Oh. 

Karen 52:40
I say clean through all that. 

Wendy Beck 52:42
Because you were working 

Karen 52:43
I 

Wendy Beck 52:43
in 

Karen 52:43
was 

Wendy Beck 52:43
the 

Karen 52:44
working 

Wendy Beck 52:44
program. 

Karen 52:44
in the program, and I was going to meetings and I was sharing where I was. Straight up. Three years ago, I had surgery, I had to have pain pills, which I took as needed. I didn't, you know, abuse them or any of that kind of stuff. But it woke my disease up. So then when I had started having emotional or issues with like family members and some painful issues happening, mentally, emotionally tough, I turned to alcohol. Again. 

And over the past three years, it has taken me time to get any time together. And 

Wendy Beck 53:22
where are you right now? 

Karen 53:23
Probably by time this air is six months. 

Wendy Beck 53:25
Okay. 

Karen 53:26
And at first I was real embarrassed because I had time, I'd seen 

Rich Bennett 53:29
I 

Karen 53:29
my years, came in when -- I came back when Rachel came back. So I -- the old -- I should have this much time. Excuse my French words of bullshit because I have today. 

Wendy Beck 53:41
Right. 

Karen 53:41
And that's something that a whole lot of people can't say they have. There's a lot of people who, you know, shame will keep them out of the rooms. 

Wendy Beck 53:52
Well, yes, and I'm so glad that you're saying all of this and because, you know, people do have these relapses, and it gets harder and harder for them. they get older and it becomes more concerning, and then you have your chronic relapses, 

Karen 54:12
As 

Wendy Beck 54:12
or you have someone who is, uh, involved in a relationship where they have someone that's using and they're using as well. So there-there's so many different components to it. So if-if you could just talk to us a little bit about, um, I guess that whole relapse process, because we know that it's still happening out there. It's happening in my family, it's happening, you know, to you, it's happening to people in the community. Like, what-how can we make people understand that this is a disease? 

Karen 54:47
Good question. 

Wendy Beck 54:48
That's-that's a hard one. 

Karen 54:49
But I'm thinking it through, and it's-again, it goes back to my own personal opinion is a disease of the feelings, and a disease of the trauma, and having to face that trauma, figure out what the trauma is, getting rid of the trauma, or dealing with it. 

Wendy Beck 55:10
Mm-hmm. 

Karen 55:10
For you need to, and then using all the resources that are out there to help you face what's going on. 

Wendy Beck 55:18
Okay. 

Karen 55:18
Um, because, I know, just like I said for me, it's a matter of not wanting to feel, and I know I have a personal situation right now that will-I will try to make it through without crying. Um, one of my sponsors that I had had for years, and when she first got clean, I was her sponsor, and we were extremely, extremely close, you call me mom? 

Wendy Beck 55:43
No. 

Karen 55:43
Um, she's like another daughter to me. And she was doing great for a long time, got involved in a relationship, took her will back, started using, got clean again, and just-just-just couldn't stay clean, and had issues that she just couldn't deal with, and she wound up- 

she was first, it was just the drinking, and then it was-she tried really hard not to keep drinking, but she was not using all the 

Rich Bennett 56:15
resources she 

Karen 56:16
could. And then she decided to take her will back, and decided that she had been through a lot of trauma recently, a lot of horrific things that happened in her life. And instead of using the resources of the rooms or other resources that she had, she decided not to feel, partly because of the relationship she was in, 

Rich Bennett 56:40
because 

Karen 56:40
her partner was using, 'cause so-that he didn't have to feel, so she chose to do the same thing. She's now laying in the hospital on a ventilator, waiting to have her organs donated tomorrow. 

Wendy Beck 56:54
I'm so sorry. And this is happening in not only our community, but everywhere. 

Karen 57:01
And it doesn't-it's heartbreaking, obviously, what's really difficult, and if any-I mean I can sit here and I can say all kinds of stuff, but they had the resources to test the drugs they were using. They had the test strips, 'cause they have all this stuff 

Wendy Beck 57:24
and-okay. 

Karen 57:25
There's organizations out there I'm not gonna give out names, 'cause 

Wendy Beck 57:27
yes. 

Karen 57:27
I don't 

Wendy Beck 57:28
Harm 

Karen 57:28
know-yes, 

Wendy Beck 57:28
reduction, we'll just call it "Harm 

Karen 57:29
reduction." There's harm reduction where they will give you clean needles, they will give you Narcan, 

Wendy Beck 57:34
they will give 

Karen 57:34
they 

Wendy Beck 57:35
you 

Karen 57:35
will 

Wendy Beck 57:35
fentanyl 

Karen 57:35
give- 

Wendy Beck 57:35
test strips, 

Karen 57:36
fentanyl and the other one, I forget the 

Wendy Beck 57:38
they- 

Karen 57:38
name of it, They gave you test strips of test, they had all of those resources with them, and it still happens, and it still happens, because they don't test it, and that's where the disease is so strong that people we call normies don't understand. How could you do that? How could you-I-I know people who 

Rich Bennett 58:00
test-it, 

Karen 58:00
have it's come up positive for fentanyl, and they do it anyway, because they need-it's 

Rich Bennett 58:05
so bad. 

Wendy Beck 58:06
The front of them, 

Karen 58:07
and it's-and their desire, their need is so strong, that there is no conscious thought of this may kill me, or you have the ones who are so far going in their addiction, they hope it does. 

Wendy Beck 58:18
Yeah. Wow, this has been really powerful, it has, and I really thank you for sharing, because this is hard stuff, this is really hard stuff, it's hard stuff to go through, it's hard stuff to watch, and if you don't have someone that you love that's going through it, you just don't understand. And 

Karen 58:36
even-and even if you do, I gotta add that, they don't always understand either. My husband, like I said, God bless them, and he's amazing, he's been in my life for 40 some years. what I'm going through now with my sponsory. He doesn't understand. He tries, but the thought of 'she knew going back 

Rich Bennett 58:55
[BLANK_AUDIO] 

Karen 58:55
into that relationship'. 'Do you think I can possibly kill her' and 'have her lose her family' not be there for her son, etc., etc. His brain doesn't compute how someone could make that choice, because he's not an addict. 

Wendy Beck 59:11
Right. Well, I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, I don't, I know from seeing it, like, happening over and over, you know, in my life, 

Karen 59:21
you're 

Wendy Beck 59:21
and 

Karen 59:21
reading the trenches. 

Wendy Beck 59:22
And we see these women who you're like, 'just keep doing what you're supposed to do' and they just get in their head that we're leaving today, and that's just all there is to it, and you know, you can't chase 'em, 

Karen 59:33
You 

Wendy Beck 59:33
and 

Karen 59:33
can't. 

Wendy Beck 59:33
you 

Karen 59:34
Yeah, 

Wendy Beck 59:34
can't. 

Karen 59:34
and that's the hardest part. 

Wendy Beck 59:35
Yeah, it is hard. It is hard, but I also want to throw out there, 'cause some of the things that we've been talking about at the end are, are real, you know, this fentanyl. There are teenagers in schools around, in our county and beyond, that are you? pills that are laced with fentanyl, 

Karen 59:56
Everything is 

Wendy Beck 59:56
and they are dying. They may not be even considered an addict. They are in that experimental phase in their life. They go out and they do this because they're at a party or they're somewhere, and they're dying. So, it's not something that we're not talking about this because, you know, we're trying to, you know, 

Karen 1:00:19
it's the hot topic. 

Wendy Beck 1:00:20
Yeah, something. It's happening. 

Karen 1:00:22
If I can interject, my sponsor lost her grandson to this disease, who was not an addict, never used, was away at boot camp, had a really hard workout or whatever. His friend said to him, "Hey, I can get us some pain pills to help." You know, it's boot camp. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:45
Right. 

Karen 1:00:46
They both took one pill. It happened to be laced with fentanyl, all they both died. 

18 

Rich Bennett 1:00:54
old. 

Karen 1:00:54
years 

Wendy Beck 1:00:55
Yup. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:55
And he takes one. 

Karen 1:00:56
And he was not an addict. He had, you know, 

Wendy Beck 1:00:59
Right. 

Karen 1:00:59
his life I had of him. He didn't 

Wendy Beck 1:01:01
know. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:03
No. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:04
You know, 

Karen 1:01:04
it's awareness. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:07
It is. 

Karen 1:01:07
And there's everything. The 

Rich Bennett 1:01:08
is 

Karen 1:01:09
problem everything is freaking laced with this stuff, including weed. People think, "Oh, you know, weed's okay. If you're going to, I'm not encouraging it. I'm not saying to do it. But if you're going to do it, get it from a dispenser. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:24
I agree, yes. 

Karen 1:01:27
Again, with the 

Rich Bennett 1:01:27
Yes. 

Karen 1:01:27
heart, 

Rich Bennett 1:01:28
it 

Karen 1:01:28
take 

Rich Bennett 1:01:28
from somebody that got it from a dispensary. 

Karen 1:01:31
Again, with the harm reduction. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:32
Yeah. You have to be, 

Karen 1:01:33
be, 

Wendy Beck 1:01:33
you have 

Karen 1:01:33
they 

Wendy Beck 1:01:33
to 

Karen 1:01:33
are finding 

Rich Bennett 1:01:34
it, 

Karen 1:01:35
every single thing, 

Rich Bennett 1:01:36
including the 

Karen 1:01:37
least with fentanyl or all this other 

Rich Bennett 1:01:40
there. 

Karen 1:01:40
stuff's out 

Rich Bennett 1:01:40
Even the freaking gummies are. 

Karen 1:01:42
Yeah, you've got. If you're going to get it, go to the freaking dispensary. 

Wendy Beck 1:01:46
Right. Yeah. Wow. You know, this, this, this is powerful. And I thank you very much for sharing your story. And we're hoping that, you know, the parents that are listening will understand that, you know, it's not, okay, how am I going to say this? We're talking about people that have had the resiliency of going through their addiction and finding recovery on the other side, but there's a whole n other piece that we haven't even touched on rich that we should probably dive into a little bit, but it is those 18 year old high school students who were doing this for the first time and they're done. They're just done. And we're not talking about it enough. 

Karen 1:02:28
And the thing is, it's not even just the 18 year olds, it's even I didn't. I didn't have an issue. I was like, well, number 138, but it's 

Wendy Beck 1:02:36
yeah, 

Karen 1:02:36
even, 

Wendy Beck 1:02:36
but 

Karen 1:02:36
even, 

Wendy Beck 1:02:36
there are middle schoolers 

Karen 1:02:37
middle schoolers 

Wendy Beck 1:02:38
that are. Yeah, 

Karen 1:02:38
that are. It's okay. It's like it's now it's very cool and it's fine to be doing weed. Like when we were in grade school, not grade school, wonder where am I coming. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:47
I don't 

Wendy Beck 1:02:48
know. High 

Karen 1:02:49
school. High school. It was, you know, drinking. You go out and drink on the weekends. You part of the weekends. It wasn't a big deal. Now they're finding that the kids aren't drinking. They're doing weed. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:01
Or they're taking 

Karen 1:03:03
Or 

Wendy Beck 1:03:03
pills, 

Karen 1:03:03
taking pills and weed is they will say is not a gateway drug. I know 

Rich Bennett 1:03:07
yeah. 

Karen 1:03:08
several people who know several people who will tell you different who have lived who are in the rooms who started with weed and again, the weed it it's it's it's all about to me. Why are you doing it? you know, are you maybe first do it because 

Wendy Beck 1:03:24
You 

Karen 1:03:24
your 

Wendy Beck 1:03:24
just, 

Karen 1:03:24
friends are 

Wendy Beck 1:03:25
Try 

Karen 1:03:25
doing. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:25
it. 

Karen 1:03:25
Try 

Wendy Beck 1:03:25
Yeah. 

Karen 1:03:26
it. Your friends are doing it. No, right? But that's one of the things and I know you know this better than I do as far as the history and the background and the addiction and the disease of it. Some of us are just wired differently. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:37
Well, I was talking to a friend, she was, she was in one of our recovery houses and she was a house manager, I leveraged early and she said, you know, I'm the one in my family that got the jean. 

Karen 1:03:47
Mm-hmm. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:48
So you don't know who, it's like that, what, the bullet in the chamber. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:54
Yeah. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:54
To say it, but you just do not know who it's, 

Karen 1:03:56
I have five siblings, 

Wendy Beck 1:03:58
and you're 

Karen 1:03:58
one. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:58
the only 

Karen 1:03:58
I'm the only one. 

Wendy Beck 1:03:59
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:00
Well, 

Wendy Beck 1:04:02
thank you. 

Karen 1:04:04
We appreciate you. I appreciate being here. I appreciate you and everything you've done for this community. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:07
Thank you. 

Karen 1:04:08
You've taken something extremely tragic and made something good out 

Wendy Beck 1:04:11
and 

Karen 1:04:11
of it 

Wendy Beck 1:04:12
we're trying. 

Karen 1:04:13
You, you're doing, you are doing it. It's very obvious and I see it. I see it with the people coming in and the women in the rooms and the women in your houses. I see the. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:24
Well, I've 

Karen 1:04:25
the direct impact you. 

Wendy Beck 1:04:26
Yeah, I think that, you know, our mission has changed, you know, originally, rage against addiction was to provide awareness and support to anyone that struggled from drug and or alcohol abuse, including the families because I was the family and I was just really just trying to figure out how to provide better resources. 

And now we have kind of shifted because we have the sober living houses for women, and we've kind of like fell into this dedicated to women's recovery and in the extension of that, which makes me really excited is that we truly believe that healing 

Rich Bennett 1:04:59
begins 

Wendy Beck 1:04:59
a housing. 

Karen 1:05:01
100% 

Wendy Beck 1:05:01
it's that structure, it's that protected environment and that network. so you know, 

Karen 1:05:08
And 

Wendy Beck 1:05:08
it's possible. 

Karen 1:05:09
It's right here in the rooms. You know, it's the fact that they have a strong. And if they ever had a structure at all, have not had it for a year because their whole life revolves around 

Wendy Beck 1:05:20
is chaos, right. 

Karen 1:05:21
Chaos, so to come into one of your houses, have that security, have that safety in their nice 

Wendy Beck 1:05:28
and 

Karen 1:05:28
houses 

Wendy Beck 1:05:29
accountability. 

Karen 1:05:29
It's the real, they're nice houses, 

Wendy Beck 1:05:30
Yeah, 

Karen 1:05:31
you know, it's 

Wendy Beck 1:05:31
they 

Karen 1:05:31
the 

Wendy Beck 1:05:31
are. 

Karen 1:05:31
and they're very, I've been in them before and having the accountability, 

Rich Bennett 1:05:35
whatever. 

Karen 1:05:35
you have to go to meetings or Do this. You have 

Wendy Beck 1:05:38
to do your 

Karen 1:05:39
chores. You have all that 

Wendy Beck 1:05:41
pay rent. You have to 

Karen 1:05:42
stuff. 

Wendy Beck 1:05:42
pay 

Karen 1:05:43
You 

Wendy Beck 1:05:43
rent. 

Karen 1:05:43
have to Do you, therefore 

Rich Bennett 1:05:44
you a

Karen 1:05:45
job to pay the rent you have to and I've heard people like leaving meetings. Oh, I got to get home. I've got to 

Wendy Beck 1:05:52
I got to curfew 

Karen 1:05:52
or I got to take the trash down. I'm saying, and then the laugh about it. Thank God. I have to take the 

Wendy Beck 1:05:59
to 

Karen 1:05:59
trash down 

Wendy Beck 1:06:00
no. 

Karen 1:06:01
Because a year or two ago, I was the trash. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:04
Right. Oh, 

Karen 1:06:05
I have heard that comment. 

Wendy Beck 1:06:07
Wow. Yes. Wow. On that note, we thank you so much. And we appreciate you and she's she's wearing her rage gear shirt. Yeah. Thank you for your support. 

Karen 1:06:18
Always. Thanks guys. I appreciate it. 

Rich & Wendy 1:06:20
Wendy, I understand that rage against addiction is doing something very important, a monthly donor program. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Absolutely. We are hoping to get our supporters to join us in providing a monthly donation. It can be $5 or it can be more whatever you can afford really allows us to help plan and increase our fundraising efforts. Well, why should people become a monthly donor? What are they doing to help? Their monthly contributions let us plan for long term projects and respond quickly when urgent needs arise. And I'll give you an example. We had the need for a new mattress and we've also had urgent needs for refrigerators and washing machines and all of that kind of stuff that comes up. So they tend to need to be replaced and our women deserve to have the things that they need. So with the monthly donor program, technically, anybody can do it for any amount and they're because rage against addiction always needs something. I've known -- I've known you for years now -- and there's times you've told me you guys need a furniture, you need clothes, and also you're not getting the grants that you use to or the contributions that you use to. So this monthly donor program will definitely help a lot. So somebody becomes a monthly donor. What is there anything that they're getting in return? besides, of course, helping those that need it. I know you guys have an excellent newsletter. Would they automatically subscribe to that? Yeah, we'll subscribe to our newsletter so you'll know what's going on. You can track our progress. Here, success stories. Know the data and how many women we serve each year and just be a part of something bigger. So with this, I guess, they're going to be because of the newsletter. They're going to be one of the first ones to find out about events coming up like the memory walk and run. The basket being go and any other future events that you're doing the podcast that you do. Yes. So they're going to be tied in right away. Yes. All right. So how can they become unmonthly? Don't you? You can go to our website and that is rage against addiction. org and go to our donate button and on there, you will have the option to become a monthly donor and you can put in any amount that you want. Your commitment, bigger small, empowers our mission and changes lives every single day. Visit us at rage against addiction. org to become a reoccurring donor and join us in making a lasting impact. Thank you for your compassion, generosity, and belief in a brighter future. Together, we can make a difference. Join us today!