The Truth About Health, Habits & Self-Worth with Esther Avant

Wendy & Rich 0:00
Hey everyone it's Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together we've shared laughs, tears, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios Hartford County living presents Conversations with Rich Bennett. 

No, no, no, it's who it is. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
What if the key to transforming your life isn't a massive overall but small, sustainable changes that actually stick. So today on Conversations with Rich Bennett we're joined by Esther Ivand, a coach, speaker, entrepreneur, podcaster, and mom who spent nearly two decades helping busy professionals and parents take control of their health, habits, and mindset. Esther's journey isn't about quick fixes or overnight success. It's about the real, often messy path of juggling business, parenthood, and personal growth with honesty and heart. She's here to share how embracing challenges rather than avoiding them can lead to resilience, fulfillment, and even joy in the chaos. So if you ever felt like life is pulling you in too many directions or like you're constantly putting yourself last, this is your episode. So get ready for real talk powerful insights, and a few laughs as we dive into how the small steps we take each day can lead to big transformations. How are you doing Esther? 

Esther Avant 2:10
I'm doing great, thank you. I don't know if I wrote that intro or you didn't but very good. 

Rich Bennett 2:16
You can steal it. I'm fine with it. Before we get into everything, I always like to find out about, you know, my guess going to school, when you were going into high school because, you know, that's when you're supposed to know what your career is, what was it that you wanted to do when you were in high school? And what was it that you ended up doing? 

Esther Avant 2:38
Yeah, that's a great question. I had two things in my yearbook. I wanted to be a Zampone driver, which is a 

Rich Bennett 2:43
dream. What? 

Esther Avant 2:44
I have yet to fulfill, but I am confident that one day I will. And the other dream was to own a gym, which I also haven't done, but I have worked in the fitness industry for the last 20 years. It was right around that kind of influential time, I was about 16 when I discovered working out at the local YMCA. And watch the movie "Office Space," which I have in hindsight, I've watched more recently and realized I've kind of butchered this scene. But my story is that I saw the movie and there was a scene where they're talking to the neighbor about what you would do if you had a million dollars and how that's what you should do with your life. And I was like, well, if I had a million dollars, I would just want to get paid to like, or I just want to be in the gym all day. And that's what led to me going to college for exercise science and becoming a personal trainer. So I've, it's rare, but I have pretty much been doing what I thought I would be doing. 

Rich Bennett 3:48
Exercise Science. I've never heard that term. 

Esther Avant 3:52
Yeah, so it's the same as Kinesiology, just different schools. Call 

Rich Bennett 3:55
Yeah, 

Esther Avant 3:56
it 

Rich Bennett 3:56
that was for 

Esther Avant 3:56
that? 

Rich Bennett 3:56
you to say. It's the same as 

Esther Avant 4:00
Kinesiology. So it's just it's just the human movement and musculature things. And interestingly, exercise science can kind of go in one of two paths, depending on the 

Rich Bennett 4:11
what? 

Esther Avant 4:11
school. 

Rich Bennett 4:12
Right. 

Esther Avant 4:12
I went to Boston University where it was very science heavy and it was essentially a very similar to a pre-med track. And then there are other schools. I looked at springfield college in Western Mass. It's more of like sports and recreation. So that's more of, you know, you want to lead a summer camp, that sort of thing. And I didn't really know what I was getting myself into at the time. It was much harder than I thought it was going to be. And I actually spent so much time studying that I wasn't doing any working out. Put on a lot of weight. And then had to spend spend some time getting that off. But 

Rich Bennett 4:47
Wow. 

Esther Avant 4:47
if if I could do it again, I probably would. So here 

Rich Bennett 4:50
we are. All right. I do know. I don't think there is a weight limit for driving a Zamboni, though, is it? Zamboni? Zamboni. what? 

Esther Avant 4:58
Zamboni. No. 

Rich Bennett 4:58
yeah there's all right i have to ask you this why? why did you want to be a zamboni 

Esther Avant 5:05
what? 

Rich Bennett 5:05
driver? 

Esther Avant 5:06
i don't know that's a 

Rich Bennett 5:06
fan or 

Esther Avant 5:08
that's not particularly i grew up in Maine so i mean i guess i guess i saw some zamboni's i don't even know you know there wasn't there wasn't indoor rink so we probably went ice gaming a few times and i was like that thing with sort of wheels kind of cool 

Rich Bennett 5:23
and uh-huh 

Esther Avant 5:24
yeah that's uh that's i just kind of an unfulfilled childhood dream i guess but now that we're talking about it maybe i'll bump it back up on my my priorities list 

Rich Bennett 5:32
at least just to try 

Esther Avant 5:33
yeah exactly i figure it 

Rich Bennett 5:34
doesn't look like you'd be 

Esther Avant 5:35
it 

Rich Bennett 5:35
fun 

Esther Avant 5:36
looks fun and it doesn't look that hard it seems like it you just gotta turn a little bit and yeah 

Rich Bennett 5:42
i mean if you slide on the ice isn't that normal? 

Esther Avant 5:44
right right and you're not going fast like go through any sort of barrier or anything 

Rich Bennett 5:48
so yeah 

Esther Avant 5:49
i think i'm qualified 

Rich Bennett 5:51
i i i would try it i think it would be a blast why not 

Esther Avant 5:55
yeah 

Rich Bennett 5:56
all right so with and i love the fact that and i didn't mention this in the introduction um because with you balancing parenthood and you know small business and all that also a military wife so how is it that you are able to balance all of that and a lot for those of you listening you have spouses but there is a huge difference between a spouse and a military spouse 

Esther Avant 6:30
yeah uh i mean the balance is probably precarious a lot of the time 

Rich Bennett 6:35
yeah 

Esther Avant 6:35
um you know it depends when when my husband's gone my focus is primarily on my son and being kind of steadfast for him knowing that it's hard when a parent is 

Rich Bennett 6:47
right 

Esther Avant 6:47
gone and you can't just talk to them and see them whenever you want and it also allows me more time to you know with his at school especially to focus on my career which i've always maintained is really important to me when i first met my my now husband i was working in person at gyms and when i realized i was going to be going wherever he went every few years i knew that i didn't want to be starting over at a at a gym every time we moved it takes a long time to build up a clientele and get yourself fully booked and then by the time you have now you're off to the next place and that didn't sound good and that was the kind of the early days of online coaching 

Rich Bennett 7:28
right 

Esther Avant 7:28
and i saw these other trainers and thought you know they're no they're no better educated than i am they're no smarter than i am certainly if they can do it i can much harder than i thought it would be but bringing my business online is part of what has allowed me to keep a you know kind of a family a personal and a work balance knowing that 

Rich Bennett 7:45
right 

Esther Avant 7:46
i've been able to shape that around what time zone we're in and what my availability is like and it it just doesn't have a lot of challenges that are a traditional kind of in-person career would 

Rich Bennett 7:57
all right so and with the stuff you're doing virtually is strictly coaching i would or well i guess you could speak too because there are a lot of virtual platforms where you can do speaking 

Esther Avant 8:12
yeah i'm actually with the publication of my book at the end of last year i've started getting more into speaking i've been coaching for a really long time so personal training kind of led to my getting certified in nutrition coaching realizing that just talking about exercise isn't really serving people's needs i need to be able to talk about nutrition as well and then from there i really started getting passionate about human behavior in general and behavior change specifically that is one thing to know all the stuff which most of us know more than that we might let on it's completely different things actually do those things 

Rich Bennett 8:46
right 

Esther Avant 8:46
and that's kind of the mean potatoes so you know there's tens of thousands of not millions of workouts out there and meal plans and eat these superfoods not that the if anything there's too much information and we don't know how to distill it down into what matters so yes my coaching does include the exercise and nutrition stuff but largely it's working with people as individuals and saying let's dive into your life specifically and figure out what's making this hard i'm gonna venture a guess that your family your job the demands on your time that's it's making it hard so how do we start making it easier for you how do we really simplify it down to those small steps that you talked about in the very beginning so that you feel like you can make progress towards your personal goals without feeling like you're leaving your family or your career kind of out to dry 

Rich Bennett 9:35
right 

Esther Avant 9:36
in at the same time 

Rich Bennett 9:38
all right so we make sense of you 

nutritional coach fitness technically therapy as well i 

Esther Avant 9:50
A lot of it is similar to therapy. I would never call myself a therapist and I very much encourage clients to see therapists. But there is that therapeutic aspect of it where most of us don't have people in our lives who are there solely to listen to us and support us and help us. Even in friendships where we have that dynamic, it's a two-way street, whereas with a coach, you just get to unload and I'm not telling you about my life. I'm not unleashing my stuff on you. So it is very therapeutic. Just be like listen I know you don't know my husband or my boss but I really need to vent about them and my kids drive me crazy and you just kind of get that stuff out and you're like huh. All right well I feel better getting them off my 

Rich Bennett 10:29
wait 

Esther Avant 10:29
chest and now because that's not monopolizing all of my brain space, now I actually can start to think about what I can do for myself. 

Rich Bennett 10:37
So you mentioned earlier that you had put on the weight. Okay. So when it came time to take weight off, and I hope I hope you understand my question here. Were you able to take it off because of a diet or because of dieting? And when I say dieting I don't you know because you have your different diets out there, but like me I say I'm dieting count calories. You know I can still eat the stuff that I love, but I'm counting the calories. And I think that's the difference between a diet and dieting. So which was it for you that you did or was it a combination? 

Esther Avant 11:18
That's a great question. So I was very young and I mean I guess late late teens early 20s, I didn't have any of the nutrition background that I now have. So I was like you know kind of your average person just kind of grasping its straws. In hindsight it is very obvious to me that the lack of exercise and the diet of cheap beer and late night pizza was the culprit. So really just kind of reversing those things would have done the trick. That's not where my mind was at at the time. 

Rich Bennett 11:51
Right. 

Esther Avant 11:51
I was very desperate to get the weight off and I had been very sang going into college, put on about 35, almost 40 pounds and just yeah yeah a lot of weight and then I'm not a big person so on a small frame that you know looks like even more. So my first attempt remember this so distinctly it was a long weekend so I was driving from Boston or my to college back home to Maine and also I was doing a three day master cleanse, which if you recall those days it was a combination of lemon water with cayenne pepper and some maple syrup. It actually was like a kind taste. 

Rich Bennett 12:29
Huh? 

Esther Avant 12:30
Yeah as it drinks like wasn't terrible but you were fasting, you know that was all you were having 

Rich Bennett 12:36
It was 

Esther Avant 12:37
for 

Rich Bennett 12:37
like you 

Esther Avant 12:37
three 

Rich Bennett 12:37
could be 

Esther Avant 12:37
days. 

Rich Bennett 12:38
pretty tasty. 

Esther Avant 12:39
Yeah but also it would be nice to have some food in addition so 

Rich Bennett 12:43
Right. 

Esther Avant 12:44
not only was I drinking I don't remember exactly what the you know kind of the protocol was but I drink a lot of this liquid and I had to stop it truly like every rest stop between Boston and my house because I was just constantly needing to pee. So that was the first thing so kind of you know got over that after a few days and then I tried a raw diet. because at its core it's just a very restrictive thing where if you're not eating anything but it's not in its you know natural form I yanked it out of the ground myself then you're eating a lot less. That was also miserable didn't last so eventually kind of having doing what most people do and kind of starting off with the extremes I found my way to something in the middle which was how do I not be miserable while I'm doing this. So what if I it helped being home for that summer because I was back at the gym that I had been going to I got back into a routine of going there regularly and moving more so that helped I didn't have access to an unlimited dining hall. I wasn't you know going to going to parties while I live with my parents I wasn't ordinary late night pizza so a lot of the habits that I had slipped into just sort of remedied themselves. Now I had you know a parent who was cooking a couple meals a day but it wasn't like this 

Rich Bennett 13:58
Yeah. 

Esther Avant 13:58
free 

Rich Bennett 13:58
Again 

Esther Avant 13:58
for all like it wasn't school. So I naturally kind of slipped back in to those healthier habits after I realized the extremes weren't going to work and then once I had that experience kind of then took that with me forward and new all right going forward let's let's not let it so get so out of hand and then that way you can reign yourself a little bit more easily. 

Rich Bennett 14:19
Something just hit me and I've never asked this question but when you were just talking about all that it got me thinking because you and I both know when it comes to fitness and the dieting it helps if your mental health a lot. However especially doing what you have you ran across people to where they're trying all these different diets all these different fitness routines, and it seems like it's creating more stress, anxiety, and depression for 

Esther Avant 14:52
them. Yeah, I would say probably the majority of women that I've worked with would fall into that category. And I see it even in women that I don't work with. I just see it on social media and Facebook groups like the desperation of I feel like I'm doing everything and nothing is working. I feel like I've tried all of the things, and it's almost like with each attempt, your further eroding, your belief in yourself, and your belief that anything can work. And a lot of women do kind of work themselves in and men I'm sure work themselves into a place where they're beating themselves up for not being able to kind of gear themselves up to do it again. But if you think about it, it's like, of course, of course, you don't want to do it again. Look at this, look at these past experiences that were miserable and also didn't work. Why would you want to subject yourself to that again? And a big part of helping people see things differently is just starting with with belief and reminding people like you may not believe in yourself right now and understandably so after, you know, the evidence that you've kind of been collecting. But I believe in you as an outsider just from, you know, because you are inherently a worthy person, I believe that you can do this. And it just helps people start to kind of borrow that belief. And so, like, well, all right, if they believe in me, like maybe, well, maybe I'll entertain the possibility that it could be true. And then we just work on really gradually repairing that kind of reputation with yourself, where the longer you say you're going to do things and then don't follow through and do them, the more often you do that, the less it matters what you say, because you just don't believe that you're going to do it. So taking those really small opportunities to follow through and prove to yourself, I am trustworthy, then you feel like it's possible to tackle the bigger things. 

Rich Bennett 16:42
Do you find that sometimes if they change one of those diets and try something different, that helps as well? And even with their fitness, because, I mean, I'm sure your husband hears this, you know, in the military they teach you when you're working out no pain, no gain. Now when you get my age, you say that to the doctor, he says, no pain means stop. You know, but it used to be before where, you know, I could be sitting there working with weights. That's not the exercise for me now. It may be the walking or the resistance tubes or something else. Do you find it hard to convince people, especially if they, if they're in that state of mind where they think that no matter what they're doing isn't working, that it's harder to convince them to try something different. 

Esther Avant 17:29
Yeah, there's a lot of that kind of stubborn, well, this is what's worked for me before, so I'm going to try it again. And then, you know, kind of you're talking circles there because it's like, well, if it worked for you before, then you wouldn't be here now. And it's like how many times you're going to 

Rich Bennett 17:41
Thank 

Esther Avant 17:41
do weight watchers. 

Rich Bennett 17:43
you. 

Esther Avant 17:43
And, 

Rich Bennett 17:43
Thank 

Esther Avant 17:43
you know, 

Rich Bennett 17:44
you. 

Esther Avant 17:44
if the goal I used to work in corporate wellness and it was when biggest loser was kind of in its prime. So we would host a biggest loser challenge for our our members and the same gentleman won it three or four years in a row. And I remember him saying, I'm really good at losing weight. I'm just not good or I'm just as good at putting it back on. 

Rich Bennett 18:04
Right. 

Esther Avant 18:04
So if your goal is to just lose weight, sure, keep going back to weight watchers or whatever the thing is that helps you get it off. But if your goal is to then keep it off, maybe you want to take a step back and analyze, is it, is it doing that for me? Because it's not. 

Rich Bennett 18:20
Right. 

Esther Avant 18:21
But it is it's a tough cell. There's even when something isn't working, it's still familiar. And I think it's tough to get people to venture into the unknown, even if even if he's an outsider, know they're going to be a lot more successful, it just, it still feels scary and uncomfortable. 

Rich Bennett 18:36
Yeah. 

Esther Avant 18:36
So I think what helps just kind of the reminder that you don't really have anything to lose. Worst case, you're right back where you started, which is the experience you've been having. 

Rich Bennett 18:47
Uh huh. 

Esther Avant 18:47
So you're no worse off. And best case, this actually works and it feels livable and you feel happy and you feel in control and you feel like this can be your new way of life. And that usually usually helps kind of convince people to try things differently. But to your point, you were touching on what I call the big rocks where there are just kind of some overarching principles that apply to damn near everybody. We should be doing some form of strength resistance training, whether that's body weight, resistance bands, you know, if something in the water, barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells, whatever, we should be doing some form of just general daily movement, whether it's walking or, you know, that sort of thing, we should be prioritizing our fiber and our protein intakes. All of those are sort of the overarching principles. And then what matters is helping an individual figure out what that looks like for them in this chapter of their life. So you're absolutely right. You know, when you're when you're 20-something military recruit, you're probably very good at running. You're probably very good at push-ups and pull-ups and sit ups and pushing through any sort of pain you experience. And then when you're, you know, 40, 50, 60, whatever, it's a lot more, how do I train to keep myself independent? How do I make it? So I'm not exacerbating this kind of borderline minor injury that I make it worse and it becomes this recurring thing. How do I make sure that what I'm doing now is allowing me to live the active lifestyle that I want and I'm not injuring myself in the process and putting myself out of commission. So acknowledging that while the the principles don't change what they look like in your life is going to evolve and being willing to evolve with them. 

Rich Bennett 20:34
And I'm glad you you said the part about, yeah, if you try to die it then you come back and you're doing it again because then yeah you need to try something different. How important is it for this is a two-part question. But I'll just the first part first. How important is it before somebody starts a fitness routine or dieting to consult their physician first? Because I do feel that a lot of people don't and ends up being worse. 

Esther Avant 21:10
Right. Yeah, I would say you know that's just a good practice to be in to when you're when you're doing anything with your with your health. Yeah. Talk to your doctor. I would also say a lot of people don't have you know personal relationships with their doctors. They would 

Rich Bennett 21:25
Right. 

Esther Avant 21:25
go in and they're going to look at the chart and say are you so and so and they're going to mispronounce your name and and you know you're going to say I try to lose some weight and they're going to say great watch your well watch your portions 

Rich Bennett 21:34
Whatever. 

Esther Avant 21:34
and you know get some exercise right it's going to be this very kind of generic advice most likely and medical doctors don't get a lot of nutrition training or exercise training 

Rich Bennett 21:44
Yeah. Right. 

Esther Avant 21:44
so they're probably you know that best they might hand you a pamphlet or something but it can't hurt to just you know as a personal trainer one of the first things you do is have people fill out of physical activity readiness questionnaire and it just kind of goes through generally have you had any you know shortness of breath lightheadedness any cardiac issues just to make sure that you're not going to put yourself in a dangerous position by doing something that your body isn't used to and hopefully most people ease in but there are certainly people that are like no I'm jumping with both feet and I'm going to do this really intense thing and they do you know put themselves in dangerous positions because they don't have any sort of you know professional oversight 

Rich Bennett 22:24
which takes which brings me to the second part of that question explained to everybody how important it is to have a finished coach nutritionist coach mentor 

or just say Esther all wrapped up into one 

Esther Avant 22:42
yeah I would never say that you can't do it on your own but with I've learned you know personally and professionally is that you can get to where you want to be a lot faster and with a lot fewer you know mistakes and I'm kind of heartache if you do it with guidance and I think a lot of us are hesitant to ask for help it feels like a sign of weakness we feel like we should be able to do it on our own but a lot of times we're just slowing down the process and we're just you know of making very predictable mistakes that somebody else could help you avoid and help you get from A to B in a more streamlined fashion and you know in a in a healthy way you know from an exercise standpoint it's really helpful to work with somebody ideally in person just even just for a few sessions to understand the the basic movement patterns to understand what certain exercises feel like in your body because a lot of us have a pretty big disconnect between what we think our bodies are doing and what they actually are doing so just basic things like a squat a lunge a push up a lot of us don't default to a a healthy way of doing those things or a a safe way of doing those things And then it causes pain. And then we're not sure, is that pain because my muscles are working? Is that pain because I'm doing something wrong? Should I stop? Should I keep going? And just having somebody kind of take you through an assessment can help a ton. Same thing with exercise. You know, there's like I was saying, there's no lack of formation out there. It's just 

Rich Bennett 24:16
right 

Esther Avant 24:16
hard to know who to trust. And you know, what's appropriate for you. So it's so so helpful to get work with somebody who's going to look at you as unique individual instead of these kind of generic blanket. Here's a 1500 calorie meal plan or here's a vegetarian meal plan or here's a workout for for fat loss. All of those things may be fine for some people, but are they are they fine for you? Are they optimal for you? And are you actually going to be able to do those as they're intended? And if the implementation of them is going to be an issue, that's where somebody coming in alongside you can help and say, alright, so we've got the bones, but what does that actually look like? When are you going to do the workout? When are you going to prep the food? Um, and helps you sort of take what looks good on paper and apply it to your real life? 

Rich Bennett 25:06
right You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Esther Avant 26:59
Thank you. It is very cool to have written a book and for it to have been a bestseller and to have won awards, it's all very surreal. I've got my emotional support copy right here. 

Rich Bennett 27:09
I like that. She even had a leash on it. No. You 

Esther Avant 27:18
know, like I said, I've been doing this a long time, I've been doing it almost 20 years and I've seen how the majority of people are struggling with the same things and everybody thinks that there's something wrong with them. And I wrote it for the, you know, women specifically, but you know, everything in it applies to men and would probably be pretty relatable as well. But who are tired of this endless dieting of struggling and feeling like I'm on and then I'm off and I just feel like I'm failing at this and like probably everything else in my life and feeling like I know what I should be doing, but I'm not following through and my plate is so full and I don't recognize my body and I just want to feel better. It's written for my mom who passed away when I was in my mid 20s and who struggled with her weight. And, you know, I saw her doing slim fast diet and weight watchers and and just knew there was so much more to her than the fact she wanted to lose some weight. And my coaching has always been really compassionate and really empathetic and and understanding that you're trying. Of course, you're 

Rich Bennett 28:32
yeah, 

Esther Avant 28:32
trying. You want to, you want to do this. It's just hard and you could use a little bit of help. So it's, it's really focused on sustainability, compassion rather than being something restrictive. Having these lists of these are the foods you can eat and these are the ones you can't. And here's this elaborate salad dressing recipe that has all these obscure ingredients and has here's, you know, green juice recipes. It's focused on your lifestyle and helping you develop consistency, commitment, confidence, focusing on the most impactful behaviors that are gonna make the difference and move the needle for you. 

Shifting away from kind of the shame and all or nothing thinking, and helping women just take ownership of their health so that not only do they experience the health benefits, but the recognition that like everything you become and cultivate in pursuit of your health goals, then spills over into the other areas of your life, and you're noticing that you're better equipped to thrive in your career, you're more present for your family all because you decided it wasn't selfish to focus on yourself first. So that's who it's for, the women that want to get off the roller coaster and do this, you know, kind of once and for all. 

Rich Bennett 29:53
How long did it take you to write? 

Esther Avant 29:55
That's really interesting. The actual writing itself was about six weeks. So like, yeah, I know. So like a, like a coach, I found a coach, I realized I'm entering into a domain, I know nothing about, and I could stumble around in the dark for an eternity and eventually maybe come up with something or I can find somebody who knows what they're doing who has a roadmap I can follow. So I followed kind of a format of just 

Rich Bennett 30:24
Yeah, 

Esther Avant 30:24
kind of brain dumping onto note cards first, and then putting like with like and outlining of 

Rich Bennett 30:29
old 

Esther Avant 30:29
the 

Rich Bennett 30:30
school, 

Esther Avant 30:30
chapters at very old school, I still have the staff, I don't know, I don't know what I will ever do with them, but started with that, and then we were stationed in Germany and we were about to move back to the US. And I knew that we were gonna have a pretty tumultuous couple of months. So I wanted 

Rich Bennett 30:46
mm-hmm. 

Esther Avant 30:46
the rough draft done before we moved, which, you know, back in myself up, I did two 90 minute sessions a week for six weeks and the book is roughly a camera, exactly how many, and it ended up being roughly 12 chapters, maybe a little bit more. So with it ended up being, I wrote basically a chapter per session, and then I had this really terrible rough draft, and I left it alone, we moved to the US, I signed up for a program that would include sessions with an editor and I knew I can't give this editor this version. So while we were living in hotels, we had just gotten to San Diego, we didn't have a house yet. I was waking up at 4am and I was sitting in the hotel bath tub without the water, with my... 

Rich Bennett 31:34
(laughs) 

Esther Avant 31:36
It was just the only, you know, I had a four year old son, yes, I was, I knew it, I did...

Rich Bennett 31:41
There was no water in there, especially since you had the computer. 

Esther Avant 31:44
I know, yes, I should state that differently. Yeah, so I needed some, I needed some quiet. My husband was having to work all day. I had my four year old son at the time, the only real time I had to myself to do it was super early in the morning and I didn't wanna be traipsing around the lobby, so I just like locked myself in the bathroom. So I did kind of the first round of edits there, and then throughout that summer, I met with my editor once a week and we would go through a chapter at a time and I just was very steadfast with my goals of I will not go to another session with her, having not done my previous homework. So I'm not gonna get behind and have to do all of this editing at the end. So I was really diligent. So that was like February to March is when I did the writing. And then I submitted kind of the almost done version to beta readers in early September, and then had the final version, I wanna say like October. So the actual writing about six weeks and then start to finish about six months. And then the publishing is what, that took about, that took over a year. 

Rich Bennett 32:54
Now, you self-publish her. 

Esther Avant 32:56
No, I went through a publisher, which I don't know if I would do again, but that was part of what took so long, is it was out of my 

Rich Bennett 33:06
But 

Esther Avant 33:06
hands. 

Rich Bennett 33:06
publisher, I knew the answer to my next question already, then, but I'll ask anyway, any plans on doing an audio book version of it? 

Esther Avant 33:17
Well, probably not. 

Rich Bennett 33:20
I know most publishers want the book to be at at least a year first. 

Esther Avant 33:24
Yeah, and it's also very expensive to record an audio book. I looked into it. 

Rich Bennett 33:32
Step publishers always tell you, but who would be best to record it? 

Esther Avant 33:36
Well, yes, I would record it myself, but even, you know, you want good audio quality so you'd have to rent studio space, things like that. So I just started kind of running the numbers on how many audio books I would need to sell, to even break even on that, and it just doesn't really make sense. Maybe at some point in the future, never say never. But it's not in the cards for right now. 

Rich Bennett 33:58
Well, the good thing is, you technically have an audio book version of it in the podcast. 

Esther Avant 34:06
That's very true. 

Rich Bennett 34:06
Which, and I don't know if the publisher has done this, if not maybe you could convince them to do it. Have they, is there, have they put a link to your podcast at the end of the book or better yet, even a QR code in the book for people to scan that'll take them right to your podcast? 

Esther Avant 34:24
Yeah, that's a great question. 

Rich Bennett 34:25
The conversation. 

Esther Avant 34:26
So actually, now that you mention it, I should add the, add the podcast to this, but there's a QR code like I own page one to a portal of additional resources. So there's, I wrote the book to be sort of like, a, an implement as you go. So there's a lot of, kind of, journaling exercises, actually stuff to help you implement what you're reading. And all of those are printable, downloadable in the book portal. There's a month of workouts in there. So all these just kind of bonus resources. But that would be a great idea. I could just add a link to the podcast to the portal. So I will do 

Rich Bennett 35:02
that. Is there recipes in there as well? A link for recipes? 

Esther Avant 35:07
There probably is. I'll have to check. If not, I will edit. That's something that I, that I want. I was actually just thinking about it recently that my intention had been for it to be kind of this ever growing resource hub. And I hadn't, I hadn't really done much with it since the book came out, but adding, you know, a recipe book or two and the podcast is an excellent idea. So if you get a copy, expect new, new resources in there. 

Rich Bennett 35:29
And with, since you're going through a publishing company, is the publishing company handling the marketing for you or do you stuff to do that yourself? 

Esther Avant 35:39
That's a great question. There is a disconnect between what I was expecting and what I have gotten. So that has been the biggest challenge is I would have thought the hardest part about writing a book is writing the book. Not so. The hardest part about writing a book is selling the book. And that's, that's kind of been the the focus recently is, well, now that it's out. And I and the people who have read it think it's really good. More people need to know about it. So doing kind of the uncomfortable thing. I think most people, I remember this in in personal training, I think it applies to authors as well. Most people who do a thing don't want to talk about doing the thing, they just want to do the thing. 

Rich Bennett 36:25
Right. 

Esther Avant 36:26
Personal trainers just want to train clients writers, just want to write books. Speakers just want to, you know, be on the stages. Most people don't want to be selling themselves. And that, as it turns out, is a big part of a lot of jobs is, you know, if you want to train clients, well, they need to know that you're the trainer for them, which means they need to know that you exist and what you do and why you're a good fit for them and putting yourself out there is a big part of it. So that's what I'm learning about the book now is, you know, things like the book awards that add, you know, credibility and going on podcasts and doing local events and and talking about it because there are millions of books available. And unless you're some big name with one of the, you know, the big publishing houses putting a big budget behind you, you release it and it's kind of crickets and you're like, oh, shoot, I know what 

Rich Bennett 37:17
it's hard being an per-nor, 

Esther Avant 37:20
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 37:20
I realize that. But there are people that have written books, almost like albums, you look at an album in case, I mean, Esther, you're young, 

Esther Avant 37:30
you 

Rich Bennett 37:31
know, thing, but now it's all on Spotify or whatever. But a lot of times those albums don't sell into an artist's past or I'm not saying books. 

Esther Avant 37:43
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 37:43
we phrase this. Okay. It's 10 years from now when you, let me rephrase this again, within the next five years when you open your gym, your books going to take off star selling more. And I think that's where a lot of authors mess up because they write more books and they forget to push the first one, you know, and all. 

Esther Avant 38:05
Yep. 

Rich Bennett 38:05
When they came afterwards, you need to keep pushing them, no matter what, every book is different. And you're going on different podcasts, which helps. And I'm sure on your podcast, are you pushing the book or using it, you know, for people to buy so they can say, you can say, you know, to get your copy, just go here and purchase your copy of to your health. 

Esther Avant 38:29
Yeah, I haven't added in the middle, I believe, an ad of 

Rich Bennett 38:31
Okay. 

Esther Avant 38:32
me. I probably don't talk about it as much as I should like mid episodes, but, um, yeah, that's, that's probably something I should do more as it's reminding people. I tend to assume that everybody who listens already knows all the things about me, but that's not true. 

Rich Bennett 38:49
All right, so let me get this straight. There's an ad that you read. Now, the ad it's on your podcast episodes, is it pre-recorded so you could just drop it in on every episode? 

Esther Avant 38:58
Uh-huh. 

Rich Bennett 38:59
It is. Okay. So, Esther, I hope other other podcasters have all for this, if not, go back and ask them. If you want to send me that MP3 file and a link, I would be more than happy to drop that on episodes of my podcast. 

Esther Avant 39:20
Oh my gosh. Thank 

Rich Bennett 39:21
you. I don't know who you host with. I host with Buzzsprout. Buzzsprout allows me to put in dynamic content to where I can drop. Yeah, and it makes more sense since you've already been on the podcast and actually even recorded a different one so yeah, this is yesterday, when you heard me on rich podcast. Here's my book. If you want to get, so I would be more than happy to put that out there. 

Esther Avant 39:47
That's awesome. Thank you. 

Rich Bennett 39:49
Important. Oh, you're welcome. I mean, go back and hit these other podcasters say, hey, rich, Ben, it's that he's going to do this. He's challenging you to go out and do it. All right, so with your podcast and create me from all you started it doing COVID, right? 

Esther Avant 40:02
Yep. 

Rich Bennett 40:04
Why? 

Well, 

Esther Avant 40:07
it was that paired with living in Germany. And 

Rich Bennett 40:11
just 

Esther Avant 40:12
feeling pretty disconnected from the world as a lot of people were, but in addition to being, you know, basically quarantined, I was also in a foreign country where he didn't speak the language. So even when I had the opportunity to go to the grocery store or something, I still wasn't connecting with people. And you know, I just kind of had a lot on on my mind, I guess. And 

Rich Bennett 40:32
right. 

Esther Avant 40:32
I've always liked longer form content over the social media type stuff where everything is so aesthetic. And you know, if the picture doesn't pop, then nobody's going to read the caption and the captions too long. Nobody's going to listen. And I started looking at you know, podcasting as a way to be able to have more nuanced conversations, because I think what's frustrating about health and social media specifically is that everything becomes so polarizing and so black and white and so extreme. And I've always been kind of pretty middle of the road of like, well, it depends. And I can see in some instances, this might be right. And that doesn't make for good social media content. But it's a really important conversation to be having about these topics. So I thought, you know, from a marketing standpoint, it would be a really good way for prospective clients to get to know more about me, what I coach, like what kind of my vibe is so that they would feel comfortable working with me. And that's exactly what happened as people would book consult calls and say, I feel like I know you have listened to so many episodes and now talking to you. You're just the same. I think that's really important to just be able to have that kind of that authentic outlet and it's kind of evolved over the years and started off. It was called to your head. It was called live diet free and it was really kind of weight loss specific. And then as I wrote the book and just wanted to start talking more about personal development and self improvement in general because there's so many so much overlap just what you do for your health also benefits in the other areas. So that's when I when the book came out, I changed the name to to your health so that it's all the same. And now it's a little bit broader in terms of who are guests and what are topics that I think will benefit people and help them live healthier, happier, happier, more successful, more confident, more fulfilling lives in general. So now it's on Mondays, I do a guest interview and then on Thursday, I do what I call bite size episode, it's just like five or 10 minutes of something that's kind of on my mind, a quick snippet. Because it's hard to tell, you know, what length kind of hits with people. I know I like a long podcast because I listen on speed and a half and I want to be doing another thing while I'm listening. So I want to put it on and not have to touch it for, you know, 45 minutes, but I know other people are like, listen, I got 10 minutes in the car when dropping the kids off. And if it's longer than that, I'm never going to go back to it. So trying to hit kind of all the links for different people. 

Rich Bennett 42:58
The funny thing with that is that, and I've mentioned this before because with podcast and a lot and you'll see the question on all these groups, you know, how long should it be? You know, it's just too long, it's the two short, podcast have something that radio does not. It's a pause button. And if people are very interested and you think about when you're watching movies, how many times do you pause the movie and go back to it? If you if your content is interesting, people will push the pause button and come back to it. Playing in simple. 

Esther Avant 43:30
Yeah, that's true. I noticed that I do for the most part, although there, there are times like I'll notice if I get most of the way through an episode, and then I have to pause for whatever reason. I am not as engaged when I come back. Like I'll finish it out, but I'm not as like, focused on it as I was in the 

Rich Bennett 43:47
right, 

Esther Avant 43:47
initial one. So I do think it kind of, it loses some of the effect. If you're breaking it into, you know, these these seven minute chunks throughout the course of the week is like just like getting the information, but not with the same kind of punch, that would be if you listen straight through. 

Rich Bennett 44:00
It is fine doing the solo one sometimes too. I mean, it's, I just started doing them recently and it could be fun, but I like doing this more. It's all get to somebody else because it does go a longer but I learn. 

Esther Avant 44:20
That is really fun. 

Rich Bennett 44:22
Yeah and that's why I'm doing this in the first place. So what's been the biggest challenge with the podcast? 

Esther Avant 44:28
That's a great question. I guess probably growing it. It's something that I enjoy doing when I think about all of the kind of things that I do that work-related each week. The podcast is one of the things that I enjoy the most. So it's not doing the recordings. I have an editor who does the tech stuff so I don't even think about that. I've had some really great guests. The main thing is it's just getting more listeners. And that's we were talking earlier about kind of knowing who's listening and how hard it is to really get any sort of information. It's the same thing with figuring out where people are finding you and who's listening to all the episodes, who drops in for one every couple of months. Is you don't really know which of your efforts are making the biggest difference? Are these short video clips that I post on Instagram? Are they bringing people in? Is it the emails that I'm sending? Is it that my guest is promoting it and they're bringing in people? You sort of feel like you're kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall and like hoping that that's something that's going to stick. 

Rich Bennett 45:34
If it gets one listener then it's it's weird because I mean we all do the social media, which I think you still have to. And you don't know if you're getting listeners from it or not. Now I know for me it helps when I advertise on other podcasts because well that's where podcast listeners are. And it varies. I think being consistent in having good content is the main thing, which helps out a lot. All right, so I'm looking at the time but there is something I did want to ask you about. 

Made by me coaching, you're still doing it? 

Esther Avant 46:17
I am. 

Rich Bennett 46:18
You, is it you and me right? 

Esther Avant 46:20
Yes, my partner, Maggie. 

Rich Bennett 46:22
Okay. So is it you two that's going to end up getting the gym too? Or just you? 

Esther Avant 46:26
You never know. She's in Tampa, we're in San Diego so they wouldn't wouldn't be immediately but she and her husband are good friends of ours and would are also very fitness-minded and would make good business partner. So who knows? We actually met. We're all stationed in Hawaii. We met through a gym and then we both moved to the Maryland DC area. They were in anapolis. We were in DC and when we moved to Germany was when the beginning of COVID, my business really started taking off. We were moving whenever it was seven times zones away and I was just like, I need some help. I don't really know with what or what it looks like or any of it but would you help me? So Meg came on as my head coach and It's just she's an amazing coach. She really helped grow the business throughout COVID. When I moved back to the states and started writing the book and working on the book, we just sort of realized how much we like working together and how 

Rich Bennett 47:33
right. 

Esther Avant 47:33
well our skill sets complement each other. So we essentially just kind of morphed my previous coaching business, EA coaching, into made by me where you're getting both of our brains for the price of one and we get to coach together 

Rich Bennett 47:48
and can't beat 

Esther Avant 47:48
You 

Rich Bennett 47:48
that. 

Esther Avant 47:49
can't beat that. It's an awesome deal. So we have fun with it. It feels like we get to just be friends doing what we enjoy and we're helping people. So it was a really kind of natural evolution. 

Rich Bennett 48:02
Alright, so before I get to my last two questions, it's something very important. Tell everybody how they can get in touch with you, your website, besides the fact that it's going to be in the show notes, but tell them your website anyway. 

Esther Avant 48:15
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 48:16
And where they can find the, well, we know where they can find the podcast anywhere, but the name of the podcast. 

Esther Avant 48:21
Yes, the podcast and book are both called to your health. The book is available wherever you buy books. Amazon's probably the easiest. Podcast is available everywhere. My website is estheravand.com. It's my full name. It has links the book, the podcast, my speaking or coaching, all the things that you could you could want there. 

Rich Bennett 48:41
Alright, so if a listener feels like they're stuck in an unsure where to start, what's one simple action they can take today? 

Esther Avant 48:51
I love that question. 

One of the biggest things with the thing that I think makes embrace a lot of people's success is a lack of planning. So without knowing anything about what time it is today, what you've already done today, what I will say the number one thing that you can do today is make yourself a plan for tomorrow. This does not need to be this elaborate thing. I'm not talking map out every five minute interval, take five minutes at the, you know, on the, the back half of today. Look at your calendar for tomorrow. What are the demands on your time? I have Three and a half hours of calls in a row today. I knew going into it. My first opportunity to eat isn't gonna be until about noon So I have my lunch ready to go because I know if I if I didn't I would be in the pantry ravaging for whatever because I'm starving so I have set myself up for success because I looked at my calendar and knew what to expect That's the number one thing if you're gonna be gone a lot of a day. Are you bringing food with you or what is your plan for that? Are you gonna bring some snacks so by a little alert? You should If you were telling yourself you're gonna work out. When is that gonna happen? What are you gonna do just that simple act of planning out those important things tomorrow in advance? Will be a game changer for you and anybody can do it no matter what it is that you're trying to to change or improve 

Rich Bennett 50:09
Everybody's got a calendar on them There either on their computer their phone wall desk whatever put it on your calendar people. It's not that hard All right, so before I get to my last questions there anything you would like to add 

Esther Avant 50:25
No, this has been awesome. I have loved this conversation. You ask great questions. It's been so natural I love when it just feels like you know two people talking and and you get to listen in 

Rich Bennett 50:34
Well the door is always open you because I love The talk about health especially now that I'm getting healthy again. I mean God I was up to 300 pounds. Now I'm down to 232. 

Esther Avant 50:46
Oh my gosh. Well I 

Rich Bennett 50:47
Feel great. I love it 

Esther Avant 50:50
Congratulations, 

Rich Bennett 50:51
I still can't grow the hair on my head. I'm going to be a skinny Santa this year, but that's okay All right, what's something about your journey that people might be surprised to learn. 

Esther Avant 51:05
Oh That's a great question 

This feels hard to even imagine but I guess it's probably conceivable that people see me and think all of this being fit 

Being a business owner writing a book Speaking that all of that has come naturally to me 

Rich Bennett 51:28
Mm-hmm 

Esther Avant 51:29
and it hasn't at literally every step of the way I have felt like I didn't know what I was doing or I didn't have any business doing it and What I've learned is that the majority of accomplished people feel that way. They just do it anyway so I think You know don't look at other people to Compare yourself to what they are or have that you don't, but just to show yourself what show yourself what's possible for you too because the the only difference is that Other people have decided to pursue the hard things and be Uncomfortable as they learn how and as they grow into those people So I guess I guess over yet that I've I haven't felt confident about any of the things that I've done I've just done them anyway, and I've become confident in the process. 

Rich Bennett 52:19
It's very good. Very good Yeah, I mean that's and you're right a lot of people don't but just keep doing it. Keep pushing and I think within the next five years you're definitely gonna have your gym. I just sense it. I feel I don't know why I Just I do I'll 

Esther Avant 52:36
take that. Thank you 

Rich Bennett 52:39
Esther, I want to thank you so much Those of you listening again, don't forget to purchase her bulk when you do Leave a full review and then purchase copies for other people that you know all of you that own businesses 

You should purchase copies for your employees as well because 

Healthy employees means they're gonna get worked on a lot more work and they're gonna feel good about it as there Thanks so much. 

Esther Avant 53:09
Thank you so much for having me

Rich Bennett 53:11
Thank you for listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did if you'd like to hear more conversations like this Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode and if you have a moment I'd love it if you could leave a review it helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at Conversations with rich Bennett dot com for updates giveaways and more until next time Take care be kind and keep the conversations going You know it takes a lot to put a podcast together and my sponsors help add a lot But I also have some supporters that actually helped me when it comes to the editing software the hosting and so forth There's a lot that goes in to put this together, so I want to thank them and if you can please 

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