Jessica Dodge and Jenny Barroso Create Beautiful Magic

Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union studios, Hartford County living presents, Conversations with Rich Bennet. 

What

Rich Bennett 0:27
happens when two people stop ignoring that quiet voice inside them and finally decide to create what they were meant to? Today's Conversations about more than a book and more than art, it's about timing, purpose, and what can happen when two completely different creative journeys collide in the most unexpected way. Jessica Dodge is an international best-selling author who built her career independently following a path that led her from visual storytelling into the world of magical realism. Her debut novel, The Forgotten Witch, didn't just find readers, it built a global audience. But now, she's taking things in a completely different direction. And alongside her is Jenny Barrazo. Did I do it right? Barrazo? This sounds good, Rich, don't worry about it. A classically trained artist, but here's the twist. Painting wasn't always part of her life. After years in the corporate world, she felt a pull she couldn't explain, picked up a brush for the first time and never looked back. Now these two women are collaborating on something you don't see every day. As Jessica writes her new novel, The Curst Painting of Gabriel Moretti, Jenny is painting the story in real time. Worse by word, brushstroke by brushstroke. By the end, this won't just be a book. It won't just be a gallery. It will be one story told in two completely different ways. And maybe the real story here is what happens when you finally trust the creative path you were meant to follow all along. So how are you ladies doing? 

Jessica Dodge 2:18
Good, how are you? 

Rich Bennett 2:19
I am doing good. Jessica, I want to start with you. 

Jessica Dodge 2:23
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:23
How did you realize that this project wasn't just another book is something completely 

Jessica Dodge 2:33
So it actually started when I was editing, or not actually editing, but proofing my last book that I just released the Messengers of Magic, uh, Jenny was on my team of, um, early readers. So we had gotten connected and I had a problem with my formatter, my formatter, um, had formatted the book and then went on vacation and the book was jumbled. And so I had to hire a new formatter and I needed, uh, person, not me because I, you know, after reading your book so many times you don't find things a lot because you know, you need separate eyes. So I asked the group if there was anybody that would be willing to read the book again and make sure everything was in the correct places because there was places that off. So Jenny volunteered and, um, she did an amazing job, helped me get the whole entire book straight now and, um, then the book released and we kept in contact and I was, you know, I had, I had actually started the curse painting before the Messengers of Magic. Uh, and when, for me, I, I feel like I channel right so whatever story is flowing through me at the time, I'm not a, I'm a pantser, I'm not a platter so I'm, you know, I go with the flow. So the Messengers of Magic came in to, um, play while I was writing the curse painting and I knew I had to stop writing and write this book. So I did. And then when I came back to the curse painting, I think it was literally serendipity because I think I was literally not supposed to write that book until I met Jenny. So I had about 24 chapters started when I picked it back up and one morning I was like sitting outside having coffee and it just dawned on me. I was like, oh my god. I'm like, I saw this picture that Jenny posted on her Instagram account and I was like, this, it just like hit me in the chest that she needed to paint this painting from the book 

Rich Bennett 4:34
different? 

Jessica Dodge 4:34
because the 

Rich Bennett 4:34
Right. 

Jessica Dodge 4:35
painting that she had on Instagram reminded me so much of what I was seeing in my own head. And so I contacted her. I was like, I have an idea. And then she was like, yes. And it just, and it kind of spied from there because we had actually only talked about doing this, the painting in the book. So the book is about an artist who falls in love with a woman and the painting that he paints of her portrait, which is actually, it ends up being a portrait of both of them and it becomes cursed. So she was just going to paint that painting in the beginning. And then we ended up, um, and then we ended up deciding that we wanted to do a whole gallery exposition on this and like actually do all the scenes that inspired her from the book as well. So as I'm writing, I'm sending her my scenes, um, chapters and she's looking at them and she's pulling inspiration from them and creating art from those chapters. 

Rich Bennett 5:34
All right. So is this going to be like, two, two separate books? So you have the novel and then the art to go along with 

Jessica Dodge 5:45
So it's going to be, um, we're going to probably publish the art inside of the book. So it won't be, I'm hoping that we can, we're definitely going to do two editions. We'll do a normal edition, which will be black and white and then we'll do a full color edition. Um, so people can see the actual colored, um, art, which will be amazing. Uh, but we kind of have to split it that way because doing a colored, um, print is very expensive. 

Rich Bennett 6:10
it. 

Jessica Dodge 6:10
So we 

Rich Bennett 6:10
Right. 

Jessica Dodge 6:10
need to have it available for both options. But yes. So the book will have, um, any of the paintings that correlate to scenes will be in the book in those scenes. 

Rich Bennett 6:22
And how long have you been writing? 

Jessica Dodge 6:24
Um, since 2021. 

Rich Bennett 6:27
Oh, wow. 

Jessica Dodge 6:29
I'm new 

Rich Bennett 6:29
So 

Jessica Dodge 6:29
to it. 

Rich Bennett 6:29
only five, four years? 

Jessica Dodge 6:31
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 6:32
All right. And Jenny, how long have you been painting for 

 Jenny Barroso 6:35
about four years? 

Rich Bennett 6:38
Really? 

 Jenny Barroso 6:39
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 6:42
Okay. Are you guys, both of you guys messing with me, are 

 Jenny Barroso 6:45
you both? 

Jessica Dodge 6:45
No. 

 Jenny Barroso 6:45
No. 

Jessica Dodge 6:45
Series. 

Rich Bennett 6:47
Wow. 

 Jenny Barroso 6:48
We were meant. 

Rich Bennett 6:49
Okay. 

 Jenny Barroso 6:49
Clearly meant to do work. So we just 

Jessica Dodge 6:51
Yeah. Definitely. 

 Jenny Barroso 6:51
know each other now. 

Rich Bennett 6:53
Well, I, I've never heard of any other book like this. I 

Jessica Dodge 6:56
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 6:56
mean, 

Jessica Dodge 6:56
it's pretty unique. 

Rich Bennett 6:58
Usually when it comes to an artist, you hear them illustrating a children's book, which is the question I have for you to hear, Jenny, have you ever, have you ever illustrated a children's book? Is this your first work? I'll do in any type of art for any type 

 Jenny Barroso 7:17
book. 

Rich Bennett 7:17
of 

 Jenny Barroso 7:17
Yep. It's my first time. I've never illustrated a children's book. I have had conversations about maybe people interested in doing a book. 

Rich Bennett 7:26
Right. 

 Jenny Barroso 7:26
But that hasn't gotten anywhere, but this is the first time that I'm going to get to do this. And that's why when we started the conversion of Jessica and we're like, okay, it's this meaning painting about, you know, it's going to be cursed. 

I'm reading, uhm, it just feels like so alive. It's something that needs to come through. It needs to be done. 

Rich Bennett 8:04
It's, it's because when I talk to illustrators for children's books, it's, they got, they have to illustrate from when the author sends them the words, and then they got to figure out what they're doing. But with you, you're like painting scenes, and, well, I mean, they're seen, but are you painting just for like each chapter? Or, uh-oh, 

 Jenny Barroso 8:28
Uh-oh. 

Rich Bennett 8:28
go ahead. 

 Jenny Barroso 8:29
No plan. It's as I'm reading. It's whatever I feel that needs to come through. So I already have the first one, started. It's in progress. So ready. And I guess, just cutting it so rich in details. 

Rich Bennett 8:42
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 8:42
You know, I, I've always been a reader. Like I love books. Like I love immersing myself since I was a kid in books. So I can picture, you know, the more detail you get in a book, the more you can, I guess, experience the scene as if you're there yourself. And that's how Jessica writes so 

Rich Bennett 9:00
she makes it easy for you. 

 Jenny Barroso 9:01
Yeah, I just see the whole thing. And so this specific one is just the scene of the road to the village, talked about this tree in which the painter gave a Gabriel, um, likes to sit under and sketch and paint. And I was like, I have this has to be. So this the tree is the main, I guess, the main character and this painting. And then the road to the village where everything is taking place. And this just, I just had the vision of it, you know, and then, you know, I shared it with Jessica. We discussed it and then it's. It's in promise already that's the first painting. 

Jessica Dodge 9:36
Yeah. It's incredible too. 

Rich Bennett 9:38
And how many paintings per chapter do you think 

 Jenny Barroso 9:42
I do 

Rich Bennett 9:42
or do you or you don't even know yet because you're just. 

 Jenny Barroso 9:45
Oh, I don't know and I feel like I had been yesterday that I've already read. I don't know how many chapters are we in? Just because. 

Jessica Dodge 9:52
I think thirty. 

 Jenny Barroso 9:54
Yeah, I got it all, but I know I want to go back so I have the one that I started and I have three more that are ready like bubbling and I'm like, hey, it's to be a thing. But now yesterday, I was thinking about this. I'm like, I think I'm going to go back and start over and read that. Not to change any of the ideas I have. But there's more. Honestly, this is like almost a supernatural thing. But I know 

Jessica Dodge 10:19
I 

 Jenny Barroso 10:19
Jessica. 

Jessica Dodge 10:19
agree, I agree. 

 Jenny Barroso 10:21
there's more like something else wants to come out. And so I'm excited, 

Rich Bennett 10:24
Yeah, 

 Jenny Barroso 10:24
not even sure how many chapters this book is going to have, but I know there's going to be a lot more. To make 

Rich Bennett 10:32
when when are you when are you hoping to finish? Let me read phrases because you're still in the process of writing the book, right? 

Jessica Dodge 10:40
Yes, correct. 

Rich Bennett 10:41
All right. So when are you hoping to finish everything and have it published by. 

Jessica Dodge 10:46
So 

I do a lot of like,I  make sure that I set myself deadlines when I'm doing something like this. So and I've tried to stick to them. So the first draft of the book should be done by June. And then it goes off to edits and then the final final final, like what's going to be published will be probably finished by September. So and then we'll decide where when we want to publish it, depending on how far Jenny has gotten with her paintings, then, because I want this, this is as much of her project did as it is of mine. So I want it to be like, I want her to feel like she doesn't have like a time constraints, you know, so I'm okay for publishing whenever she finishes. 

Rich Bennett 11:34
Now are you self published? 

Jessica Dodge 11:36
I am self published and traditionally published. 

Rich Bennett 11:40
Okay, 

Jessica Dodge 11:40
This book is going to be self published because it is so unique and different. I really want to be 

Rich Bennett 11:46
right. 

Jessica Dodge 11:46
all hands on with this book. And I want it to become exactly what I want it to be. And I know that taking it to most of the time, taking it to traditionally published world, you lose a lot of that ability to do it exactly how you want it. And I feel like this book really needs that because it's such a collaboration that it really needs to be done by us. 

Rich Bennett 12:10
Here's a scary question. 

When the editors make any changes will affect the paintings. 

Jessica Dodge 12:21
I don't think so just because, um, usually I'm pretty like thorough with my, um, with my first drafts when they go through, like my first drafts are pretty tight. So, uh, there's not a lot of big changes that have to happen in terms of, like, characters or big plot changes. Usually I have those all figured out before it goes off to the editor. Um, it does go off for developmental editing and then goes to the copy line edits, um, but the developmental editing on this one I think is going to be pretty, um, small stuff. So, I don't think it'll, I don't think it's gonna affect anything with the paintings. 

Rich Bennett 13:04
I'm just sitting here thinking of so many different because before we started recording we talked about marketing. yeah. I'm always hard for authors, 

Jessica Dodge 13:13
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 13:13
but what you guys have here is something unique. And I'm just, in my back of my mind, I'm thinking, oh my god, there are so many different ways that you guys can do this. Alright, so because I'm thinking of these ways I have to ask this, have you guys ever met in person yet? 

Jessica Dodge 13:32
We haven't. 

Rich Bennett 13:33
You haven't. 

Jessica Dodge 13:34
Not yet. We will be definitely meeting in person before the book comes out and we already have a bunch of events lined up for next year that will be, will be at so big events like the New England book ball and we're, we actually got accepted to the fabled in fantasy. A romantic event in Edinburgh, Scotland, so we'll be there. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be it's going to be fun, and we're hoping to put lots more on the docket. 

Rich Bennett 14:03
Alright, so when you guys go to these events. And if they don't do this, maybe you're thinking of something else. Jenny, how big are the paintings? I know they got to fit in the book, but are you actually, because what you're putting in the book are prints. 

 Jenny Barroso 14:17
So 

Rich Bennett 14:18
the actual paintings have bigger day. 

 Jenny Barroso 14:21
I have different. I just like the biggest one is only going to be the main painting, which is on 

Rich Bennett 14:26
Right. 

 Jenny Barroso 14:26
the book is based on. I don't think I've decided on a size yet. It's everyone I have not started. But we had Jessica and I had this conversation and she was like, don't limit yourself on the size because the prince is just 

Rich Bennett 14:40
Yeah, 

 Jenny Barroso 14:40
a picture, right. They're going to get professionally photographed. And then we can just print them on whatever size our past. But I'm not. So I'm looking at it at 16 by 20, for example, 

Rich Bennett 14:54
okay. 

 Jenny Barroso 14:54
the first one is. 

Rich Bennett 14:57
And the reason I ask is because well, you know, you go to art gallery, all the arts different sizes. But would you guys have here? So you have events where you have the book readings or people will just come up to see your book and you pitch the book. But you can also do an art gallery and having the story right there. We know every picture tells a story. But when you had the actual freaking book right there. Tell them the story it's something. like I said, it's unique. 

Jessica Dodge 15:27
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 15:27
I don't know of anything else that has been done like this. Do 

Jessica Dodge 15:32
Yeah. And no, and that's one of the things that we're really excited about with the launch is that the launch will not only be the book launch event, but it's going to be Jenny's gallery about to. So we will 

Rich Bennett 15:45
you? Okay. 

Jessica Dodge 15:45
be launching the book and the paintings in a gallery at the same time. So that's going to be really unique and cool to because, you know, we can have her paintings on the wall and frame next to it the excerpts from the book that inspired the painting. 

 Jenny Barroso 16:01
So I want to answer something that you're probably thinking. 

Rich Bennett 16:04
Okay, go ahead. 

 Jenny Barroso 16:06
We will have the location for that yet, but it has to be something where I can drive to. So not necessarily in a Florida, but definitely something where I can just load my car with all the paintings. 

Rich Bennett 16:16
So not Scotland. 

 Jenny Barroso 16:17
No. 

Jessica Dodge 16:18
No. 

 Jenny Barroso 16:20
Probably a small original painting or two and my luggage, but not the big 

Rich Bennett 16:26
one. Well, here's the other thing too because, you know, with with books you have audio books. But with an audio book, of course, you're not going to be able to see the paintings. And so would you be doing a video? How could 

Jessica Dodge 16:46
that? I don't know. That's a good question. So the, as of now, the audio book, I have chose one of my narrators for the audiobook. So that's being like we're going through voice, like acting, or, you know, he's going to like nail down the Italian accents and all that. I hadn't thought about the video, but it that will probably depend because I think that's getting picked that that will be picked up traditionally. So even though the book is going to be published independently, the audio book will be picked up by my publisher. 

Rich Bennett 17:22
Okay. 

Jessica Dodge 17:23
So, we're also think- so that means it depends on them. 

 Jenny Barroso 17:26
Yeah, we're also thinking of like an online gallery type of thing. 

Jessica Dodge 17:29
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 17:30
Yes. 

 Jenny Barroso 17:30
But that's a case. Definitely people that are purchasing the audiobook will have access to this online gallery so they can kind of like hear the book, and then experience the art. 

Jessica Dodge 17:41
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 17:42
I was gonna say, are they gonna be able to purchase the art as well? 

 Jenny Barroso 17:44
Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 17:47
I mean, you guys are sitting on a gold mine here. 

Jessica Dodge 17:50
We are. 

Rich Bennett 17:52
Seriously. Now, okay, and I wanna get back to the book in a minute, in a minute. But this has been bugging me. I really have to ask you guys this. Because both of you have only been doing this five years, right? 

Jessica Dodge 18:05
Yep. 

Rich Bennett 18:05
Write in and paint. What were you both doing before this? 

 Jenny Barroso 18:11
I worked in Hospitality for years for a very long time. I 

Rich Bennett 18:15
So, 

 Jenny Barroso 18:15
worked. 

Rich Bennett 18:16
like, who tell, 

 Jenny Barroso 18:17
Yeah. Hotels. I worked for the intercontinental 

Rich Bennett 18:19
okay, 

 Jenny Barroso 18:19
hotel in Miami to be very specific. And then, you know, my husband started his own business, and I was kind of, like, helping. We have small children. Well, they're pretty now, but so I was kind of helping him, and then helping the kids, and I was trying to raising the kids. I mean, and I was trying to figure out what am I meant to do, what am I supposed to do? You know, I, 

Rich Bennett 18:40
right? 

 Jenny Barroso 18:40
like, I don't want to go back to hotels. You know, it wasn't that thing trying to discover, I guess, my purpose and what I loved. And, yeah, I just, I, it was more kind of like with my spiritual awakening. As I was reading the book, and I just felt this call to paint Mary Manthaline. And I was like, and then in my mind, I was like, I mean, I don't paint, like, but I just, I, 

Rich Bennett 19:04
oh, come on. 

 Jenny Barroso 19:04
I just wanted to paint her. And mind you, I was a kid. I hated art as a kid because my mom wasn't artist. He worked more with school carrying plates, type of thing, but I'm like, not an artist. You know, I used to be a dancer, I' like, but I can't do anything with my hands. And so I never played with that. I had acrylic paints because I had kids. So you play with kids and, 

Rich Bennett 19:25
Yeah, 

 Jenny Barroso 19:26
and... 

Rich Bennett 19:26
finger 

 Jenny Barroso 19:26
painting. It was, yeah, yeah, like that. But it was such a strong nudge. And I was like, okay, I don't know why I just want to paint. And so I went to Hobby Lobby. I just bought a couple of things and I got an image from Pinterest of this Middle Eastern woman that I like. And I defeated it. I traced. I couldn't draw. Huh? 

Rich Bennett 19:48
How long ago was it? 

 Jenny Barroso 19:49
This is 2022, four years ago. 

Rich Bennett 19:55
And that's the first thing you were painting 

 Jenny Barroso 19:56
So I, I had to trace it because I didn't know how to draw. So I traced it. And then I painted it with whatever, I don't know whatever I felt. So I made this be kind of like a spiritual experience, kind of like a meditation, let's say. 

Rich Bennett 20:09
it? Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 20:09
So I'll just squirt out the paints and whatever wants to be on this, it is. And so when I finished it, I was blown away. I was like, this 

Rich Bennett 20:18
I could 

 Jenny Barroso 20:18
is 

Rich Bennett 20:18
see why? 

 Jenny Barroso 20:20
I'm like, so I knew that it wasn't only me doing the work. It couldn't have because I didn't have the skills or the technique to do this. And so that's when I decided I kind of want to become excellence at this. And so I enrolled myself in art school. 

Rich Bennett 20:36
You, for those of you listening, and when you go, Jenny, first of all, tell everybody website. 

 Jenny Barroso 20:44
So it's Jenny barozo.com. 

Rich Bennett 20:48
When you look at the artwork on there, you're going to say the same thing that I just said, there ain't no way in hell. You've painted that long. Your artwork is amazing. 

Jessica Dodge 21:02
It's amazing. 

Rich Bennett 21:04
Unfortunately, I cannot read Jessica's books on her site, which is and I hope I'm on the right site. The ForgottenWitch.com, right? 

Jessica Dodge 21:13
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 21:14
Yeah. OK. All right. So Jessica, wow, that's unbelievable. What were you doing before you decided that you wanted to write? 

Jessica Dodge 21:25
So 

I actually get a degree in motion pictures when I was younger and I 

Rich Bennett 21:32
What? 

Jessica Dodge 21:33
was, yeah, I was, I was determined to be a director. And I actually, when I went to school, I decided when I was, you know, immersed in all this, I really love set direction. That's where I, my passion laid. So like setting up the scenes, doing all of that. Like that was what I ended up getting my degree in. And then I ended up getting pregnant had my son who had like severe, severe allergies, so couldn't go to school. So I had to homeschool him. I mean, his allergies were like extreme. And I had to do something. I was like, I'm going to go crazy if I'm not doing anything at home. So I decided to open up like one of the things for him was that, like he was really sensitive to plastics and stuff like that. So I was really into buying him wooden toys. and uh... 

Rich Bennett 22:28
Okay. 

Jessica Dodge 22:29
What ended up occurring is that I started a business making wooden toys and it blew up in like 2020. No, actually, the guys, it was a 2017 when it really took off. And then, yeah, I did it for about 12 years. So I started earlier than that, but it really, I got really popular. And then 2020 came and I got so overwhelmed with business that I actually had a small stroke. And because of painting, 'cause I'm an artist too, so I was painting these, I was painting these handmade heirloom dolls. And I was spending 10 hours a day painting them and it was too much on me. And so I was just like one day I was like I need, I just asked the universe, I said God, please show a different way that I can do this, 'cause I was burning out. I was seriously, seriously burning out. But I didn't want to disappoint my customers because I had such a huge customer base at that point and I just couldn't keep up. I had, I mean, I had people working for me and it just was growing too fast. And it wasn't something I wanted to do anymore. My children were grown at that point, like toys were something that, it was fun when they were little. But, so one day I sat down and I was like, I had this idea come to me. I was like, I wanna write a book and I sat down and I started writing and everybody was like, you're gonna write a book, like, come on. (laughs) You know, they're just like, okay. So, but I'm a Capricorn, so I'm determined. (laughs)

 Jenny Barroso 24:10
Another Capricorn here as well. 

Jessica Dodge 24:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did it and I went through all, I was like, if I'm gonna do this, I wanna do it the way I wanna do it. And I, you know, did everything very professionally. I went through all the right channels. I hired artists for my chapter art. They were actually tattoo artists, because--

Rich Bennett 24:34
Really? 

Jessica Dodge 24:34
Yeah, 'cause I found that they were really good at working in black and white. So, and very simplistic stuff. So that was like really good for the chapter headers and stuff like that. So I made my book really unique. You know, that was like my whole idea. It was like, I wanna bring my love of art into writing. And so I have kind of this combination of my storytelling is very cinematic, because I have a cinematic background. I learned how to write scripts and all of that. So I have a very cinematic feel to my writing. And then I also have the love of art. So I incorporate that in all of my books. And then I've got this kind of, I don't know, I also have a love for storytelling at all senses. So I was really, I made sure that all of my books had audio, too, because I feel like audio books are like such a different way to experience a book as well. And I want everybody to experience them in every way. So that was, that's my story. (laughs)

Rich Bennett 25:36
And what kind of--

You're right. 

Jessica Dodge 25:39
I write historical fantasy, magical realism. So it's--

Rich Bennett 25:44
You don't write? 

Jessica Dodge 25:45
Yeah, it's a little bit, okay, so I would say, it's not fantasy as in Lord of the Rings, different worlds, that it's our world, it's our world, but just with magical things that are happening to people in it, like, oh, you find a book and it just happens to be a book that is your great, great, great, great, grandmothers. And you found it in a bookstore. And that leads you on this like wild goose chase across to Europe and all these things. And you find that there's this big mystery of your family that nobody knew about and you just uncovered it. But there's all these little magical things that happen to get them there kind of thing. So, and then my-- All my books tend to be dual timeline and dual POV. So I, like this one, the curse painting of Gabriel Moretti is a dual POV. So we have a male and a female characters perspective. And then we also have now, like, present day. And then we have the 1600s. 

Rich Bennett 26:41
So-- Wow. 

Jessica Dodge 26:42
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 26:43
All right. And how is it to YouTube Medigan? 

Jessica Dodge 26:46
She was a-- she was on my street team for the Messenger of Magic. And she arque red. So she read one of the first copies of the book. 

Rich Bennett 26:56
All right. So if number one explained what-- what was he who said, the street team? 

Jessica Dodge 27:04
Yeah, so a lot of authors have street teams. They're a bunch of readers who are either fans or people who are getting to know your work and they join in a group. Right. So we have like an online group on Instagram and they help promote the books. So like I'll be like, okay, today we're doing a cover reveal and all the people in the group reveal the cover on their stories or their page and it helps spread the word. So when people sign up for these street teams, they get a chance to read an early copy of the book. And so this is what we're trying to do. And we're doing a cover review, and it helps talk as well. And for reviews. So, which is really good for authors because if you're trying to hit an algorithm on Amazon, you really have to get your first 100 reviews in the first like two weeks. So having an arc team is really like really helps with hitting those marks. 

 Jenny Barroso 27:57
And so such as the suggested account 

Jessica Dodge 28:00
my 

 Jenny Barroso 28:02
appeared in 

Jessica Dodge 28:02
face. 

 Jenny Barroso 28:03
And I was like, I think I saw something about the forgotten which and I love that type of, you know, those sort of stories 

Rich Bennett 28:09
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 28:09
picked on her on her page. And I just, you know, how we all do. And I just went through her pictures and her stuff and I read about the book. And I was like, okay, I'm going to follow her. I like her. Everyone, you know, the way we follow people and social media. And so I followed her and one day she posted something on her stories, I believe, maybe something about a team. And it was for me, I was like, what is a street team, like, and all I understood was you become part of this team and you get an early read of the book. I was like, I'm in. I want to do this. 

Jessica Dodge 28:39
it 

 Jenny Barroso 28:40
And 

Jessica Dodge 28:40
was fate 

 Jenny Barroso 28:41
the day she needed help with that, you know, to read the book again. And I happen to be online at the time. And I was an Instagramist. But she's like, this is urgent. I need somebody. You can volunteer to read this really quickly as fast as you can. I was like, I have nothing better to do today. I'll do it. And that was to me was so fun. Because then I guess I didn't know I could do this another talent I had and I didn't know. So I'm reading the book. But I'm like looking for mistakes. Right. I'm looking for something that catches my eye that should not be there. And that's how it happened. And so I was like, okay, I found another one. And another one. And so that's how this started. 

Rich Bennett 29:19
So 

this is interesting, especially since you guys are, I mean, Jenny, you're at the southern part of the most part of the United States. And Jessica's at the northern most part of the United States. And you haven't met each other in person yet. So what's it actually like, you know, we creating in real time together. While you're writing and painting. I guess it, well, Jessica's writing while you're still painting. How is that? I mean, are you both bouncing ideas off of each other? 

 Jenny Barroso 29:55
I 

Jessica Dodge 29:55
Definitely. 

 Jenny Barroso 29:55
kind of like, to me, it feels like so natural to be honest. And I wanted to add something when Jessica was explaining about, you know, magic, the type of 

Rich Bennett 30:03
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 30:03
magic, right? And the magic in real life. So after the messages of magic was published, you know, my job was done, right? Like we're done with. And I stayed in the group. And then I had an exhibition in Sarasota. And I was going to I, you know, last minute decided to paint this thing, this portrait of a woman. And I was like, oh, it was rushed. Like I did this in seven days. I had seven days actually to complete and I wasn't sure. And it was one of those things that, you know, that my ego was talking to me. This is not your best. You could do yourself more time. But I was like, I'm going to go with it because I, for whatever reason, this needed to be done for this specific show. And so I didn't want to post an Instagram. 

Rich Bennett 30:43
Ri? 

 Jenny Barroso 30:44
And now it doesn't look like me or this is not where I want my work going. But because I posted it in Jessica's, she's like, that's the vision that I have for my book. This is the portrait that's going to be cursed. So it was meant to be that way. I went to the show. I didn't think. But honestly, I understood the assignment. It was meant for Jessica to decide and to be like 

Rich Bennett 31:05
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 31:06
this more like for her to hear the invitation. Like this is what she needed. 

Rich Bennett 31:12
Hi. 

Jessica Dodge 31:12
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 31:15
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

If you love books, you need to experience the book fair. Bel air. This incredible community event brings together authors, readers, and book lovers of all ages for a celebration of stories, creativity and connection. What makes it special is the chance to meet authors in person, hear their stories and purchase books directly from them. I've attended myself. And I can tell you there's nothing quite like discovering a great book and talking with the person who wrote it. It makes the experience more personal and far more meaningful. Whether you're looking for your next favorite read, something for your kids, or even a unique gift, you'll find it at the Book Fair Bel Air. It's family-friendly, welcoming, and full of the kind of energy that reminds you why books matter. Learn more and see upcoming event details at bookfair@belair. org. Again, that's bookfair@belair. org. So with both of you, and just questions for both of you and I'll have Jessica, I'll let you answer for, I'll let you answer first. These answer first. 

Working together, what has been one of the most surprising things for you? 

Jessica Dodge 32:46
Definitely that her art is inspiring scenes from... not even the art that is about the book, but like the art that I've seen her painting recently. She has this one where this woman is kind of crouched in the corner, and her back is kind of split, and there's this light coming out of it, and it's gorgeous. It's such a beautiful. And her art, just seeing that, it inspires ideas for me as well, because I'm such a visual person too, that 

Rich Bennett 33:18
Yeah, 

Jessica Dodge 33:19
seeing these, I'm just like, "Oh god, that's beautiful, and like I'll have lines of like text come through to me that's like, "Oh, I could use this." That would be really good in this, you know? So like I feel like we're really like, we kind of are bouncing off each other, like we're both of us inspiring each other in like ways that are, it's just a magical, like it really is just magical. 

Rich Bennett 33:40
That for you, Jenny. 

 Jenny Barroso 33:41
I want to say 

Jessica Dodge 33:42
this 

 Jenny Barroso 33:42
exactly and 

Rich Bennett 33:44
"You're 

 Jenny Barroso 33:44
I get, 

Rich Bennett 33:44
not allowed to say the same 

Jessica Dodge 33:45
sorry." 

Rich Bennett 33:46
thing. No, I'm 

 Jenny Barroso 33:49
it is, it is because I feel like, like I said earlier, it's almost like a supernatural thing happening here. Like it's not like, "Okay, this is all a mental plan. We're going to do this, this is just as we talk, and then we see something, and then we surely are constantly sharing, like, posted voice notes with each other, and it's like, I think we're like kind of like waking up other to something 

Rich Bennett 34:09
What 

 Jenny Barroso 34:09
who wants to be born through us. That's the way I see it. So that's why when you ask me, "Okay, so how many paintings protector? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe he will be five or ten chapters in which there's no painting at all." You know? But then maybe there's a chapter that they're for whatever reason, there's that three paintings come out of it, you know? So it's to see, and for me, take it on a bigger scale just to see the human connection and the end of the day, "I'm a painter, she's a writer. It sounds like a complete different world, but they're not. They're not because a writer is creating a world." 

Rich Bennett 34:41
Yeah, 

 Jenny Barroso 34:42
in your painting, you're creating a world itself where you're creating a whole collection of specific. So at the end of a day, we're just bringing magic into your real life. 

Jessica Dodge 34:52
And there's like an element of trust to between us. Like, I feel like we trust each other in this really beautiful way where we're just like, I trust her to make amazing art, and she trusts me to write scenes that are going to inspire her. You know? So it's like such a, it's so, I don't know, I feel like it's almost a spiritual thing. 

 Jenny Barroso 35:10
Yeah. And I feel 

Rich Bennett 35:11
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 35:11
like we also trust each other with each other's feedback. So I 

Jessica Dodge 35:14
idea. 

 Jenny Barroso 35:15
have this 

Jessica Dodge 35:15
Yeah, true. That too. 

 Jenny Barroso 35:16
Like, oh, let me run it by Jessica. Or should I just keep it? I'm like, "Hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you think?" And so we're like feeding off each other. 

Jessica Dodge 35:23
No, 

 Jenny Barroso 35:24
And that's, 

Jessica Dodge 35:26
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 35:27
Do you think more people should actually collaborate across disciplines like 

Jessica Dodge 35:35
together? 

Rich Bennett 35:35
this 

Jessica Dodge 35:35
I definitely think it's something that is for sure. Like, I always think about like, I feel in the art community, like because, you know, I believe that art is a spectrum. So like, you know, you have visual artists and you have artists like me who write and you have musicians. And these are all forms of art, right? So, like, I actually even thought about reaching out to a musician I know to see if there is a possibility that he'd like to create a song specific for the book so that we could have like a, when in the gallery, have his song playing, so it's like an all immersive experience with like 

Rich Bennett 36:16
of, do a 

Jessica Dodge 36:16
all 

Rich Bennett 36:16
whole 

Jessica Dodge 36:16
the kind 

Rich Bennett 36:17
soundtrack? 

Jessica Dodge 36:17
Exactly. Yeah. So, 

 Jenny Barroso 36:21
like, brother to musician, Jessica, you didn't 

Jessica Dodge 36:23
that. 

 Jenny Barroso 36:23
know 

Jessica Dodge 36:24
Oh, no, are you kidding? Okay, we need to talk, we need to talk. For sure. Yeah, that's what I mean. 

Rich Bennett 36:32
That is funny. 

Jessica Dodge 36:35
Yeah, it was something that came to me last night, actually, I was thinking about 

 Jenny Barroso 36:38
So you just 

Jessica Dodge 36:38
it. 

 Jenny Barroso 36:38
witnessed right now how this work is happening and how we're creating 

Jessica Dodge 36:41
it. Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 36:42
It just, wait, I have an idea. Wait, I can do that. Wait. Like, that's exactly how it is. 

Jessica Dodge 36:47
It's funny too. So we had been talking about where the story set. So I had originally had it set in my very first version of the story. I had it set in a CC. And then I decided against it. And I went with I can't remember the name. Do you remember the name? It's like Montero. 

 Jenny Barroso 37:08
Something. 

Jessica Dodge 37:10
Yeah. And yeah. And then. And then when Jenny was reading she's like, Oh, you have another town here was another M I don't remember what it was, but something. And I was like, Oh, good catch. I was like, OK, I've got to go back and fix that. And then I had. Oh God, I can't even remember what it was, but there was like some crazy thing. Oh, I saw something on on Instagram. And it was talking about this painting in this chapel in a CC. And I was like, Oh, that's, that's weird. I'm like, that was the original name, an original town I chose for the book. And then it started talking about Saint Francis and everything just came, like snapping into place. I was like, I was right from the beginning. I should have this in a CC. So I changed everything back to a CC. And it's just there's so many things like that that happened during the writing process where you're like, you know, It's so important to trust in yourself. You know, I was like, well, maybe I had decided against a CC because of something and it was like the universe was like, No, no, no, no, no, you need to go backwards again. And you need to put it is to be a CC because it just fit the, fit the book better, you know, but 

 Jenny Barroso 38:21
just. 

Jessica Dodge 38:21
it's just so many little 

 Jenny Barroso 38:22
The 

Jessica Dodge 38:22
weird. 

 Jenny Barroso 38:22
other thing that I shared, like a quote with you, Sain Francis of a CC and then like a day after the same day, you saw that on Instagram. The quote remember 

Jessica Dodge 38:31
yes, yeah, 

 Jenny Barroso 38:32
that. So that was 

Jessica Dodge 38:32
yeah, 

 Jenny Barroso 38:32
like, 

Jessica Dodge 38:32
that was the same 

 Jenny Barroso 38:33
information. 

Jessica Dodge 38:34
Yeah, it was like all around that same time. There's like all these things that were coming through, like with Saint Francis of a CC. And I was like, is Saint Francis, like literally reaching out to us to tell us that this needs to happen in a CC. It was so crazy like that. But yeah, I mean, in all of the books I've ever written I've had really crazy things happen that have like told me I was on the right track too, you know. 

Rich Bennett 39:01
How much research have you been putting in for this, for this book? 

Jessica Dodge 39:06
Well, I kind of research as I go. So I don't because I'm not so for people who on here who don't know what the differences between a panzer and a plotter. I'm going to explain that really quick because then this will make a little bit more 

Rich Bennett 39:18
Do 

Jessica Dodge 39:18
sense. 

Rich Bennett 39:18
you see a panzer? 

Jessica Dodge 39:19
a panzer. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:22
Okay, 

Jessica Dodge 39:23
So a panzer is somebody who just writes they don't plot anything out. They just go with like the Muse, 

Rich Bennett 39:31
flow, 

Jessica Dodge 39:31
yep, they just go with the flow. They let the Muse inspire them and they write. So that's what I am. There is people who are plotters who will plot the entire book out before they start writing. Those people usually do all the research during the that's the first stage of writing is they do all the research. So for me, because I'm a panzer, I do my research as I go. Like some chapters. I will have to do any research because it's just in a lot of dialogue or something like that and then other chapters are like dive right into like the history of, you know, the history of the certain kind of art or the history of, you know, the town of a CC and I build as I go kind of thing. 

Rich Bennett 40:12
All right. So who's going to be the first one there. And no, neither one of you. Who's going to be the first one to read this? 

Jessica Dodge 40:22
Probably my editor. Yeah. Okay. So 

Rich Bennett 40:28
phrase this, who would you like to read this first? 

Jessica Dodge 40:32
Okay, 

Rich Bennett 40:32
Advice 

Jessica Dodge 40:32
so. 

Rich Bennett 40:33
readers 

Jessica Dodge 40:33
either. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I just want it to fall into the right hands of somebody who it's going to inspire. Like, you know, whoever that may be, that's what I wanted to go. 

Rich Bennett 40:47
Well, the thing is, with both of you, I have a funny, no, you're going to have to do this. When this book comes out, even if it's a guidebook or actually I mean, I'd be a bad idea guidebook or even just a short little book, not a novel, but you don't have to write something about you're just you to alone, getting together writing something like this. 

Jessica Dodge 41:15
Yeah, there definitely will be something in probably the back of the book that tells our story for sure. 

 Jenny Barroso 41:22
I love 

Rich Bennett 41:23
that. I think you guys have a whole other book there. 

Jessica Dodge 41:26
I'm You 

Rich Bennett 41:27
serious. 

Jessica Dodge 41:27
too. 

 Jenny Barroso 41:27
Yeah. Could be another book about two artists 

Jessica Dodge 41:29
Yeah, for sure. 

 Jenny Barroso 41:30
collaborating, you know, the importance of artists collaborating. 

Jessica Dodge 41:32
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. 

Rich Bennett 41:33
Y. Or even a guidebook to help other artists. 

Jessica Dodge 41:37
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 41:37
All 

Jessica Dodge 41:38
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 41:39
right, so tell us a little bit about the curse without giving too much away, so people realize are understand why they have to purchase the book, why they have to read the book, and then also by the art. 

Jessica Dodge 41:53
Yes, uhm, so, the book is, like I said, it takes place in two different time periods, so we have present day and we have our main character, Sophie Carter, who is the female main lead, then we have our male main lead, who is Luca Romano, and he is a priest. Sophie is a journalist. Sophie however is an artist, so she has kind of moved from art into journalism because she can't get paid well enough as an artist, which is, you know, we all know that. So uhm, she gets called over to England, she's in New York, you know, and she gets called over to England, and there's a painting, supposedly three, uhm, undocumented paintings of a famous painter, Gabriel Maretty, uhm, found in the attic of an old house in Pentsford, England, and so she's got the scoop, so she's going over there to get the first, like, to do this, like, exclusive on the story with her photographer. And when one of the paintings gets revealed, it's her face. So, not only is it her face, but it has her birthmark, and so, she immediately goes into this frenzy of trying to figure out how an artist from the 16th century has painted a painting of her likeness almost identical. And that leads her to Lucia Romano in Italy, who is a priest who has found a sketchbook of Gabriel Maretty's at the same time. And this was a hidden sketchbook in the church that had been locked away. And as they kind of get together, the story starts on weaving and we find out what the story is behind the painting and the sketchbook. And Gabriel Maretty's backstory is that he is a local artist, and he's, you know, just starting, he's just starting out, he's not famous, obviously, because most artists don't get famous until they're dead. So, I know, we're definitely changing now 

Rich Bennett 44:08
Yes! 

Jessica Dodge 44:08
for sure. Um, and he falls in love with a, because, you know, of course, we all know that, like, this is a very Catholic region of Italy. And so, there's a Protestant minister who comes to town with his daughter, and, you know, back then they used to do this to try to, like, convert people and stuff like that. They, they checked for the crown. They were seeing, like, what people were doing. So, he falls in love with her, and this is like a big no-no. So, it's a very Romeo and Juliet-esque kind of thing where they're not supposed to be together, but they fight to be together. And he paints their painting. And the painting is, uh, of, like, a portrait of both of them, and he does it with his, uh, known as, uh, Grimoire. And so, while he's mixing paints, he's using herbs that are for spells. And so, he, he is trying to spell the painting for them to be together, but things go wrong, and it actually curses it. 

Rich Bennett 45:13
All right, I'm ready to 

Jessica Dodge 45:16
read this. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:18
Yeah. Yeah. This, I don't think I've ever read a historical fiction, magical fantasy room. What 

 Jenny Barroso 45:26
it? 

Rich Bennett 45:26
is 

 Jenny Barroso 45:27
Oh, those are the best. 

Jessica Dodge 45:28
Oh, they are. Play, so historical fantasy, magical realism. So Matt. 

Rich Bennett 45:33
mean, 

Jessica Dodge 45:33
I 

Rich Bennett 45:34
yeah, that. 

Jessica Dodge 45:34
two separate genres, but I like to hide them together because that's what I write. 

Rich Bennett 45:39
Hey, if they could You can do the same thing with, 

Jessica Dodge 45:43
oh, exactly. For sure. 

Rich Bennett 45:45
For sure. An art. 

Jessica Dodge 45:46
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:47
Or paintings, because you're both doing art. 

Jessica Dodge 45:50
Yep. Exactly. 

 Jenny Barroso 45:52
So, 

Rich Bennett 45:52
Wow. 

 Jenny Barroso 45:52
so many. The other side of that is like, okay, how do I make this painting, specifically talking about the portrait, right? Like the 

Rich Bennett 45:58
painting? 

 Jenny Barroso 45:58
main How do I make it that special? It's not just a random portrait. I love portrait. If you see some of the stuff I have there, like, I love painting portrait. I'm like, I want to curse it. 

I need to mix herbs in my paint and just do something different. 

Jessica Dodge 46:21
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 46:21
And like, and documented, like, make videos about it. And so Jessica has a really good street street team now for this book. And, you know, she has a really good followers, like, very, I want to say, like, people that are really excited for the work that we're 

Rich Bennett 46:34
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 46:34
doing and the work that she does. And so it's like, people are really onto it and they want to see the painting and they want to know, it's like, is this human thing that give me more? I want more. And so I'm like, I have to give them more, like, I want to because it's a whole experience. This is more than, you know, it's funny because Should I say this? Yeah. Jessica 

Rich Bennett 46:55
yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 46:55
is a website in within the story, right? And then when I read that, I was like, Jessica, I'm gonna buy that domain. And we're gonna do something with that with that website and we create this online thing. So it's like, it just, you know, we want to create a bottom line, I guess, is this whole experience that is 

Jessica Dodge 47:11
Yes, 

 Jenny Barroso 47:11
more? 

Jessica Dodge 47:12
like an immersive 

 Jenny Barroso 47:13
book. Okay, what do I read? It's like we want to captivate you completely. It's so it's it's your senses 

Rich Bennett 47:20
to say, yeah, with both you collaborating, you got to have a new website for this. 

Jessica Dodge 47:26
yeah, for sure. Yeah. Which will 

Rich Bennett 47:28
And 

Jessica Dodge 47:29
probably be that one she's talking about. 

 Jenny Barroso 47:31
It's gonna be that one. 

Jessica Dodge 47:32
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 47:32
The 

domain name already? 

 Jenny Barroso 47:36
Well, I actually, 

Rich Bennett 47:37
well, I'll 

 Jenny Barroso 47:37
for you. 

Rich Bennett 47:38
wait 

 Jenny Barroso 47:38
But I'm gonna go I'm gonna go and purchase it because actually when I saw that I checked, then it was available and I was like, 

Jessica Dodge 47:42
hey, it was available. 

 Jenny Barroso 47:43
A cool idea. And so that's why also for the, you know, for the release, when the book is published, it's not just going to be like a book, like a book release party and whatnot, an art exhibition we're gonna do. We're planning like a whole, you know, it's going to be obviously an in-person thing and we're gonna invite people. But it's this whole immersive experience that we want. 

Rich Bennett 48:02
Yeah. Hey, Jenny, you mentioned that you're doing something that your, your videotape in the program. 

 Jenny Barroso 48:07
Yes. Oh, 100%. I'm 

Rich Bennett 48:09
Document. 

 Jenny Barroso 48:09
documenting everything. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 48:11
Jessica, are you doing the same thing? 

Jessica Dodge 48:13
So I'm not at the moment. What we were planning on doing is when I give Jenny the pages and she starts painting from whatever inspires her, she's going to do like a time lapse kind of thing. And then, right, is that we decide? 

 Jenny Barroso 48:28
Yeah. 

Jessica Dodge 48:28
And so we're going to see like her, her painting, the painting. And then as when we release these, the part of the book will be released over it with the, with our narrator that we're using, he will read the page. So like as we're watching her paint, he'll be reading the page of what that inspired the art. So you'll get snippets of the actual book along with the paintings that are going with it. And we're going to do that all the way through until the books released. 

Rich Bennett 48:59
Oh, that's a great idea. 

Jessica Dodge 49:00
Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be cool. 

Rich Bennett 49:01
All of that. All right. So I have two, two separate questions for each of you. First of all, Jessica, what is your fascination with magic? 

Jessica Dodge 49:11
it. Okay. This is going to sound cheesy. It all started with 

 Jenny Barroso 49:16
We need 

Jessica Dodge 49:16
it all started with Harry Potter. It's so true. It all started with Harry Potter. And actually it did not start 

Rich Bennett 49:24
people have said 

Jessica Dodge 49:25
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me, to be honest with you, I never read the Harry Potter books when I was a teenager when they came out. I didn't read them until I was like, gosh, I think I was 

 Jenny Barroso 49:39
that. 

Jessica Dodge 49:40
37 

 Jenny Barroso 49:40
What? 

Jessica Dodge 49:40
or 38 when I read them. 

Rich Bennett 49:43
Wait a bit. What? 

Jessica Dodge 49:44
Yeah. I didn't read the, I mean, I'd seen the movies, but I hadn't read the books. I had not read the books. And so I, when I told you I was being, when I was painting 10 hours a day, I was listening to tons of audiobooks, like I would, I couldn't get enough audiobooks. So I up listening to the Harry Potter series and I absolutely fell in love with it. And then after that, I was like, okay, I need something else like this. And I fell in love with my favorite author of all time, Paula Braxton, her books were everything to me. So like I, I listened to every single book that she had. And at the end, when there was no more books, I felt like, oh my god, I'm like, I was sad. And it was one of the things that inspired me to write a book because I was like, I need more books. I need a book like this. And I was like, maybe I can write a book like that. You know. So that's where it all kind of stemmed from. 

Rich Bennett 50:34
Alright, wait a minute. Didn't you say you were a teenager when the Harry Potter books came out? Was it not only like 15, 20 years ago? 

Jessica Dodge 50:45
Well, I don't know. It had to have been, yeah, it's 20s. Because I'm 44 now. So 

Rich Bennett 50:50
what? 

Jessica Dodge 50:51
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 50:52
How are 

Jessica Dodge 50:53
you? I am. So is Jenny. 

Rich Bennett 50:56
Oh come 

 Jenny Barroso 50:57
on. 

Jessica Dodge 50:58
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 51:01
You're both messing with me again, aren't you? 

Jessica Dodge 51:03
We're not. 

 Jenny Barroso 51:04
We're both sporty 

Rich Bennett 51:06
and we're 

 Jenny Barroso 51:07
both from January. 

Jessica Dodge 51:09
Yeah, we're both January babies. 

Rich Bennett 51:12
You're both in your forties. 

Jessica Dodge 51:13
Mmm-hmm. See, it's never too, 

Rich Bennett 51:16
Wow. 

Jessica Dodge 51:16
It's never too late to find your stride. 

Rich Bennett 51:33
You 

threw me off, Jenny, what was I getting ready to ask you? Oh, yeah, Jenny. So, so, looking at paintings, what is your fascination with butterflies and hearts? 

 Jenny Barroso 51:45
Butterflies and heart. 

Rich Bennett 51:47
I'm, yeah, I'm looking at your paintings, and I see a lot of butterflies. 

 Jenny Barroso 51:54
I don't see a thing. There's a heart here that my daughter made. 

Rich Bennett 51:59
No, no, no, there's one, hold on. The one painting, if you look at it, and, and see, this is something about art. Art has different meanings to the artist alone, and then the people that are looking at it, but I'm looking at, I'm going to say the one with the swan and the lady. 

 Jenny Barroso 52:17
Oh, you're looking at the website. Okay, sorry, that you were looking 

Rich Bennett 52:19
Yeah, 

 Jenny Barroso 52:19
like 

Rich Bennett 52:19
I'm looking at 

 Jenny Barroso 52:20
behind 

Rich Bennett 52:20
the 

 Jenny Barroso 52:20
me. 

Rich Bennett 52:20
website. 

 Jenny Barroso 52:20
Nothing here. 

Jessica Dodge 52:21
way 

 Jenny Barroso 52:21
Okay, okay, and the 

Jessica Dodge 52:22
not 

 Jenny Barroso 52:23
I'm actually updating my website because I have tons of work that I have not uploaded. So, my website is being, 

Rich Bennett 52:29
as 

 Jenny Barroso 52:30
we speak, I have a lot of work. 

Rich Bennett 52:32
So, you don't have a fascination with butterflies and hearts that? 

 Jenny Barroso 52:36
No, 

Jessica Dodge 52:36
but. I 

 Jenny Barroso 52:37
did butterflies to me, their messengers. And so when my dad passed away in 2018, my daughter was three years old. And so one day, it was like a week or two weeks within my father passing away and we were playing the backyard and she saw a monarch butterfly. And she was like, look, that's granddaddy. But it was just so natural. And I was like, is it? And she's like, yeah, look, he's just saying that he loves us. And it was like, you know, how kids are. And I was like, 

Rich Bennett 53:06
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 53:06
I'm getting chills as I'm saying this because for me, it was real. So, ever since I know that that's my dad. And so there's a lot of butterflies in my house, and the only butterflies I see where I live is more than butterfly. So it's like, and then I have, I have like wildflowers in my garden that I planted on purpose because I wanted butterflies. And so for me, butterflies are messengers, you know. They're totally messengers. And then that transformation. They go through, you know, to finally find their wings and then be free. I feel like that's something that we're all going through in some way or 

Jessica Dodge 53:41
Like 

 Jenny Barroso 53:41
another. 

Jessica Dodge 53:41
that metamorphosis. 

 Jenny Barroso 53:42
Yeah, 100 percent. 

Rich Bennett 53:43
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 53:43
That is a human life. That is the human life. 

Jessica Dodge 53:45
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 53:46
Monarch 

Jessica Dodge 53:46
For sure. 

Rich Bennett 53:47
butterflies are amazing. 

 Jenny Barroso 53:48
And so I'm not obsessed with them. It's funny that you catch that from my paintings. The ones I have online because I don't feel like I paint a lot. But now that you're saying it, I feel like I do without even 

Rich Bennett 53:58
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 53:58
planning it. 

Rich Bennett 54:00
Yeah. It just comes natural. 

 Jenny Barroso 54:01
It comes naturally. 

Rich Bennett 54:03
Wow. 

Jessica Dodge 54:04
That shows 

Rich Bennett 54:04
I... offering 

Jessica Dodge 54:05
from spirit. 

 Jenny Barroso 54:05
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 54:07
So before I get to my last two questions, is there anything either of you would like to add besides. You gotta let me know when the book comes out. So people can purchase. Let me rephrase 

Jessica Dodge 54:19
this. 

Rich Bennett 54:20
People, people can buy your art right now, right Jenny? 

They're not gonna know what they're just down the ones that she doesn't want up there anymore because rich caught her out on them. And then also make sure you go on Jessica's website. And I have both websites. And purchase her books. And when you purchase her books, if you read them, make sure you leave a full review wherever you can leave reviews and 

Jessica Dodge 54:52
Yes. 

Rich Bennett 54:52
purchase copy. Other people as well. So is there anything either of you would like to add or both of you? 

 Jenny Barroso 55:00
I mean, specifically for what we're doing now, I feel like, we want to invite people to follow us along because it's not about, you know, the ending, the final product, like get the book and the art is ready. Now here you can buy everything, but it's the experience that we are creating for, you know, 

Jessica Dodge 55:16
Definitely. 

 Jenny Barroso 55:17
the readers and art lovers and magic lovers and everything lovers to be honest. Because it is. It is an experience for the senses. 

Jessica Dodge 55:27
For sure. Yeah, and we're going to be like I said on our Instagram account. So if you follow us, you'll see that once a month, we're going to be posting more than once a month on different aspects of it. But probably about once a month, you'll, you'll see one of the transformations of the art, which is going to be really great. So that's going to be something that's really unique to what we're doing. And there's lots of people that have already started following along with us as is. So jump on the bandwagon so you guys don't miss anything. 

Rich Bennett 55:59
Alright, so who was to go first for this? 

Jessica Dodge 56:03
For what? 

 Jenny Barroso 56:04
Oh. 

Rich Bennett 56:05
For the last question, the last two 

 Jenny Barroso 56:07
questions. Where, like, give us the questions first. 

Rich Bennett 56:09
I don't know the questions. You guys are going to be picking the questions. 

 Jenny Barroso 56:12
Alright, I'll go first. 

Rich Bennett 56:14
Alright, 

so, both of you are like, "What the hell was Ritz talking about? What's he doing?" You said there were no questions. No, I got a hundred different questions here. And I always have my guest pick a number and that detours a question. 

 Jenny Barroso 56:29
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 56:30
So, Jenny pick a number between one and five. 

 Jenny Barroso 56:33
Three. 

Rich Bennett 56:34
She's like, that's not a hundred questions. Would you say three? Alright, now pick a number between 41 and 60. 

 Jenny Barroso 56:43
55. 

Rich Bennett 56:49
And Jessica, you're not allowed to pick the same numbers. 

Jessica Dodge 56:52
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 56:52
Alright, you're not allowed to pick number 55. What is a question you wish more people would ask themselves? 

 Jenny Barroso 56:59
Oh, 

Jessica Dodge 57:01
that's a good one. 

 Jenny Barroso 57:05
This is a good one and it's the perfect one. Um, 

it's what is the best way? Honestly, right? What is the best way I can truly show up as myself in this world? 

Jessica Dodge 57:23
Yeah, for sure. 

Rich Bennett 57:27
Sorry, I thought it was you guys. I'm hearing like a plain comment. Oh, but no, it's definitely. 

 Jenny Barroso 57:34
That was like my answer scared him. 

Rich Bennett 57:38
No, that's 

 Jenny Barroso 57:39
running away. 

Rich Bennett 57:41
Great, that's a great answer. That's a great 

 Jenny Barroso 57:44
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 57:44
answer. 

 Jenny Barroso 57:44
I feel like 

Rich Bennett 57:45
second time, I've ASI questioning 

 Jenny Barroso 57:46
forming so much. 

Rich Bennett 57:48
Yeah. 

 Jenny Barroso 57:48
And so I've been doing this exercise that I read this somewhere and it was like if social media didn't exist, if the internet didn't exist. How would my work be? If I didn't have any social media, any platform to show myself or any platform like Pinterest, which I love to pull inspiration from, how would I be creating? My inspiration come from and how would I be creating my art? I don't have to perform for anyone, right? So it's just me, what am I going to do and how am I going to get inspired? So I'm working like this is just really makes me ask myself back. You know, it's like how can I truly show up today as myself? hmm. You know, it doesn't when I do something online and I post the painting, it's not about how is everybody doing it? How are they talking? What are they talking about? It is not me. 

Rich Bennett 58:42
Mm 

 Jenny Barroso 58:42
Like what do I have to say? How do I like to paint? Because so when you go to school for art, where everything else I want to say, and so you're being taught, certain skills, techniques, and then you should use this before this. Because if you do this, it's kind of tacky, or it's cheesy, or it doesn't. And so you learn like that. So it's like they say you learn the rules so then you can break them. That's exactly what I do. I'm like, okay, that was that artist, that professional perspective. Now I want to do things my way. And so 

Jessica Dodge 59:11
I do that with writing too. 

 Jenny Barroso 59:12
So it's like, okay, how can I show up as myself and not only in art, obviously in everything in life? Like as a mother, as a parent. Just because I see the other moms doing this, it doesn't mean that, "Oh, that's the best way of doing it?" No. Like in my heart, as a person, you know, I was created and I have a divine soul. What is the best thing that I can give to my children and I can guide them? So I feel like if we all really connect to that part of us and we show up that way, without the fear of, oh, but you know, is it too much? Is it too little? You know, what is she doing? What is he going to say? It does 

Rich Bennett 59:45
matter. 

 Jenny Barroso 59:45
not You know, we are beautiful as a creation, and that's what we should show up to the world. 

Rich Bennett 59:51
You inspire a lot of other people, don't you? You probably, and if you say, "No, I have a funny feeling you're doing, don't even know it." 

 Jenny Barroso 59:58
Both, because I do know, and I'm sure it's more than like what Jessica said about my art, and my other art, not related to the book, inspiring her writing. That was beautiful to hear. Thank you, Jessica, for sharing it. I did not know that. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:14
Jessica, you're an inspiration to people too. I mean, 

 Jenny Barroso 1:00:16
of 

Rich Bennett 1:00:16
We've 

 Jenny Barroso 1:00:17
course. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:17
been writing for five years, four years, five, six years, six. Of course, I still don't believe you're 

 Jenny Barroso 1:00:24
f**k. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:24
posing your All right, so Jessica, frozen up Jessica, yeah, you're still not moving. 

Jessica Dodge 1:00:30
I know. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:32
As 

Jessica Dodge 1:00:32
Frozen in time. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:33
soon as I hit stop, your video is probably 

Jessica Dodge 1:00:35
back. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:35
going to come 

Jessica Dodge 1:00:35
I guarantee it. Yes. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:38
All right, pick a number between one and five. 

Jessica Dodge 1:00:41
Two. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:43
Two. Now pick a number between 21 and 40. 

Jessica Dodge 1:00:49
38. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:51
38. 

Wow. Wow. Okay. What is a truth you believe that many others might disagree with? 

Jessica Dodge 1:01:06
Okay. 

This is a tricky one because I feel like we're having a big awakening right now. So I think that probably there's a lot of people that are gonna like resonate with this. But I believe that everything happens for a reason. Even the smallest mundane things in life. I think that everything has some sort of connected inter connected thread that gets us from point A to point B and that it's all divinely driven. And I truly believe that. Because 

Rich Bennett 1:01:39
Yes. 

Jessica Dodge 1:01:40
I mean, I know there are a lot of people out there that don't believe in fate and coincidence and everything. But I'm a huge believer in it because I've seen so much of it in my own life that like I could never go back to not believing that everything isn't kind of predestined for us to pick up. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:56
Another great answer. Cheers. So is there any plans. I know I said the last two questions, but I have to ask is there any plans if this is done for you to do another collaboration together. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:11
I'm 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:11
I would love to. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:12
I'd love to and I'm sure something. It's not planned. Again, we don't plan a lot of things, so but I'm sure that 

Rich Bennett 1:02:16
it just happens. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:18
It just 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:18
happens. And 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:20
we are planning Jessica because we are doing this. We are planning on going to Italy together, probably before the book is released. I mean, that's what we want to. 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:30
We 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:30
do 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:30
want to 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:30
to sometime 

Rich Bennett 1:02:31
What 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:31
enough to. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:32
part of Italy. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:33
Well, we would go to a CC. 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:35
Yep. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:36
I don't even know 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:36
That's 

Rich Bennett 1:02:36
where 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:36
around Tuscany 

Rich Bennett 1:02:37
the. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:37
around Tuscany. 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:38
Yeah. We'd fly into Florence. We got to go to Florence too, because we got to go to the F easy gallery and. I 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:45
So I'm 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:45
got. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:02:45
sure once we're there, which is, y know, sure, research and inspiration for this book and kind of like to, you know, bring everything together. We'll choose us because we, I believe that we are chosen. 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:58
I 

Rich Bennett 1:02:58
I 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:58
agree 

Rich Bennett 1:02:59
take me 

Jessica Dodge 1:02:59
100. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:59
to Italy with you. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:03:00
Alright, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:01
My 

Jessica Dodge 1:03:01
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:02
best friend lives there and I keep getting yelled at because I haven't been 

 Jenny Barroso 1:03:04
Where 

Rich Bennett 1:03:04
there. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:03:05
does he live? What part does he live? Do you know? 

Rich Bennett 1:03:07
Northern. Northern Italy. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:03:08
All right. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:09
Close to the Alps. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:03:10
Okay. That's nice. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:11
So are you suit? I forget where the hell you live. 

Jessica Jenny. Thank you so much. Best of luck to you both. I have a funny feel. No, I don't have a funny feeling. I know this book is going to win. In your art, it's just going to be blowing up big time. 

Jessica Dodge 1:03:32
Thank you for having 

Rich Bennett 1:03:33
I think it's all my pleasure 

Jessica Dodge 1:03:35
us. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:36
and the door is always open anytime you guys want to come back. 

Jessica Dodge 1:03:39
Awesome. 

 Jenny Barroso 1:03:39
Thank you so much. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:40
Today wasn't just about a new novel or a collection of paintings. It was about what can happen when we stop questioning that quiet voice inside us and finally decide to follow where it's leading. Jessica and Jenny reminded us that it's never too late to discover a new passion, reinvent yourself, or take a leap of faith. Neither of them has been on this creative journey for decades, yet together, they're proving that talent, purpose, and perseverance can come together to create something truly extraordinary. Their collaboration on the cursed painting of Gabrielle Moretti isn't simply blending literature and fine art. It's creating an entirely new way to experience storytelling. One brushstroke and penstroke and one chapter at a time would also stood out to me as to trust they have in each other and in the creative process. Sometimes the greatest ideas aren't carefully planned. They unfold naturally when we're willing to listen, stay open, and let inspiration lead the way. Whether you believe it's fate, timing, or simply following your heart, their story is a reminder that meaningful work often begins with one simple decision. Saying yes to the opportunity in front of you. And I want to thank Jessica and Jenny for joining us and sharing not only their incredible project, but the stories behind the stories. Be sure to check out their websites, follow their journey on social media, and keep an eye out for the cursed painting of Gabrielle Moretti. Trust me. This is one project you want to experience from the very beginning. And if today's conversation inspired you, don't keep it to yourself, share this episode with someone who's been putting off a dream, wondering if it's too late to start, or searching for courage to create something meaningful. Until next time, I'm Rich Bennett. Thanks for listening and remember, every great conversation starts with someone willing to listen and someone willing to share, and now it's your turn. Join the conversation by sharing this episode. Leave it a comment or reach it out to me directly. Take care. Be kind to one another. And I'll talk with you again soon.