The Remarkable Life of FBI Special Agent Eric Robinson

Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Hartford County Living Presents, Conversations with Rich Bennett. I hope you enjoyed the video. Thank you so much for having me. You're not letting me show up! You're not letting me show up! You're not letting me go. You're not letting me show up. 

Rich Bennett 0:28
You're not letting me show Baptists pastor trades the pulpit for a badge. When a man who once preached sermons finds himself interrogating terrorist, serving on an FBI swap team, and investigating everything from crimes against children to counterterrorism. Today's guest has lived the life that sounds more like a Hollywood screenplay than reality. Eric Robinson spent 12 years in Christian ministry before making a dramatic career change that led him to serve 24 years as an FBI special agent. A long way he worked some of the bureau's toughest cases, served as a firearms and tactics instructor, spent 15 years on SWOT, and helped bring justice to victims of financial crimes, civil rights violations, child exploitation and terrorism. Yet, through it all, he never lost sight of the values that first led him into ministry, service, compassion, and the pursuit of justice. As Eric writes in his memoir, he went from preaching sermons to interrogating terrorists from carrying a Bible to carrying a rifle and from breaking down barriers to the gospel to break it down doors. Now retired from the FBI and preparing to release his first book, or Rev. Eric is sharing the humorous, surprising heart-breaking and inspiring stories from a life-spent, servant, others, and two very different columns. So whether you're fascinated by law enforcement, curious about faith and purpose, or simply love hearing incredible real life stories, you're going to want to hear this So grab your bourbon, grab your coffee, grab your water, whatever it is you're drinking, buckle up and sit there because I have a funny feeling this is going to be a nice ride. How's the coin, Eric? 

Eric Robinson 2:25
It's going to be nice, Eric. Just keep talking. I'll send you more material. You keep saying great things about me. That's the only reason I do this. 

Rich Bennett 2:33
I'm getting tongue-tunged. This morning, though, man. I don't know what's going on. I've been looking for a lot of fun. One lack of sleep. Maybe I only have one cup of coffee. 

I want to get right into this because I'll be honest, when I first heard your story, I thought, you know, how does someone go from leaving the church 

Eric Robinson 3:07
Easter Sunday, 2002? I was in the FBI Academy the next Sunday. Then the Sunday after that, I preached in the chapel at the FBI Academy because they didn't have a chaplain and asked if I could fill in. 

Rich Bennett 3:21
So is that why you went to the FBI Academy? 

Eric Robinson 3:25
No, no. So 

Rich Bennett 3:26
Oh. 

Eric Robinson 3:26
here are our class of new agents trying to get to know people's names. And, you know, I, hey, I used to be a pastor, people telling their background. And 

Rich Bennett 3:36
Right. 

Eric Robinson 3:36
then I get approached after when it's like, hey, our usual chaplain's out. Do you think you could preach on Sunday? I'm like, yeah. I had my wife email me an old sermon. I'm like, here we go. 

Rich Bennett 3:49
So, but what was it? Because you were preaching for a while. 

Eric Robinson 3:52
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 3:52
So what pulled you to the FBI? I know a lot of people was like, after military or 

Eric Robinson 3:58
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 3:58
whatever. 

Eric Robinson 3:59
Yeah. So, well, so I'll tell you, but I'll pause it. I will do trainings for law enforcement for cops. You know, guys, 

Rich Bennett 4:07
right. 

Eric Robinson 4:08
They don't know me. You know, I'm throwing a few jokes, you know, telling a few dirty stories. And I'd have an FBI patch and I'd say, hey, 

before I join the FBI, you get a patch. And everybody gets one guess. And people go around and, you know, guys like, oh, you were a marine. I'm like, why would I give you a patch? If you guessed, I was former military. Like, why is... And then one guy got it because he said, like, oh, I noticed you have some tattoos that, you know, I had religious theme and I went off board with it. And like, there you go. First time. 

Rich Bennett 4:45
Wow. 

Eric Robinson 4:46
So, to your question, to your question, uh, we had a church in Western New York where it was planted off another church. I had a core group saying, "Yep, let's do this." And I gave them what I called a flinch test. I said, "We're gonna reach out to people who don't normally go to church." So, if somebody walks in and they're not dressed for church or they smell like alcohol, weird tattoos, piercings, gay couple, interracial, like, "Can you welcome them?" and not flinch, because that's what we want to do. And so, we're successful. I mean, by all measures, numbers growing, people growing, 

Rich Bennett 5:25
it's 

Eric Robinson 5:25
great. I felt like this is the purpose I had. But what I lacked was the ability to separate myself from other people's problems. So, 

Rich Bennett 5:35
uh, 

Eric Robinson 5:35
it was normal pastor stuff, but I still, I carried all those burdens improperly. So, for two years straight, every single day, every day, I had a stress headache. And I told my wife, "I've got to find a job with less stress." 

Rich Bennett 5:54
joined. 

Eric Robinson 5:54
So, I 

Rich Bennett 5:55
"Wait, 

wait, wait, wait, wait." 

Eric Robinson 5:59
It was, the day I got accepted in the FBI, no more headaches. 

Rich Bennett 6:04
Oh, come on. 

Eric Robinson 6:05
I mean, it was weird. I mean, you talk about, you know, sounds like a movie. That sounds like, you know, you roll your eyes at the TV show. And I remember, because I thought, "Uh, I don't have to do this. I don't have to deal with people's problems." I thought that, I felt 

Rich Bennett 6:22
Right. 

Eric Robinson 6:22
it. No more headaches. 

Rich Bennett 6:25
That's amazing. Well, I guess also you didn't have to answer to a bigger boss, that's like when you were a pastor as 

Eric Robinson 6:33
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 6:34
well. 

Eric Robinson 6:34
well, I mean, he's, I still do. 

Rich Bennett 6:37
Well, 

Eric Robinson 6:37
We 

Rich Bennett 6:38
yeah, that 

Eric Robinson 6:38
all 

Rich Bennett 6:38
is 

Eric Robinson 6:38
do. 

Rich Bennett 6:39
true. 

Eric Robinson 6:40
But it was, the transition, like from the beginning, I thought, "Okay, this, this is me. 

Rich Bennett 6:45
Yeah, 

Eric Robinson 6:45
This, this 

Rich Bennett 6:46
yeah. 

Eric Robinson 6:46
fits better." And, and then I felt like I'm still doing God's work because, yeah, obviously in the church, but then bringing justice for people. Yeah, that, that's what God wants to. So, I could still do something that I felt like was a noble task. 

Rich Bennett 7:02
Right. So, if you don't mind me asking, what were you doing before you were a pastor? 

Eric Robinson 7:06
I'm, I'm right out of college. Out of college, my wife and I. So, I went on a missions trip when I was in college, came back from my senior year, wives a couple of years younger, right before class to start senior year, a group of pretty Christian girls sitting at a frozen yogurt shop, and I had a ring, well, probably this finger. I had a ring that I'd gotten while on the mission trip that I meant as a promise that I would go back as a missionary someday, and I put it down on the table and I said, "Who wants to marry me and go to the Middle East?" And my wife picks it up and puts it on her hand. She goes, "I will." 

Rich Bennett 7:43
was, "Wow." 

Eric Robinson 7:43
And I I was like, "Whatever, you've got a boyfriend. I wasn't talking to you." And then, two years later, two years later, I didn't say that, but I mean. 

Rich Bennett 7:53
Now, you were thinking 

Eric Robinson 7:54
it. Yeah, I'm like, 

Rich Bennett 7:56
"You've 

Eric Robinson 7:56
got a boyfriend." So, two years later, put a better ring on her finger. And then we were preparing to be missionaries to Muslim countries. That's 

Rich Bennett 8:08
stuck 

Eric Robinson 8:08
what I in Islam. In October of 2010, is when I applied to the FBI, my applications in process, 9/11 hits, I assume that they look at, "Hey, this guy works with Muslims, we've got Nalkyra problem. Let's take a chance on him." 

Rich Bennett 8:27
Wow.Holy  cow. Okay, so at the college, now you're posted here having your own church, going into the FBI, 

I have to hear this. The last of church 

Eric Robinson 8:47
day 

Rich Bennett 8:48
before you left for the FBI and you told the congregation, "What was their response?" 

Eric Robinson 8:56
So I always hated when I would see this other places where people would leave and they don't want to tell folks because, you know, they don't want to be embarrassed. I let the people of the church know well ahead of time, like, "Hey, 

Rich Bennett 9:10
right. 

Eric Robinson 9:12
As much as you want me to, let me help you find my successor. I don't want to just leave you in the lurch." So, when I left, they had somebody ready in line to now follow on. They're supportive. They're great people, so when you tell them, like, the close leaders in the church, you tell them, "Look, every single day, and I push through it more than I should have, but every day my head hurts." The only thing that... brought relief was running, I used to run a bit and then I was like, "Oh, okay, this feels better and there's a little after-glow." So I started running more and more because that's the only thing that gave me some relief and then maybe an hour or so after and then comes evening, it's just here it comes again. 

Rich Bennett 10:02
> do you think was causing the stress? 

Eric Robinson 10:05
> don't know. I saw 

Rich Bennett 10:06
problems. 

Eric Robinson 10:08
Yeah, I mean it was a mixture of that, that's that's my simple answer, but I saw all the doctors and you know do you have a tumor, no eyesight, no underpants too tight, nope, where boxers were good. 

Trying to find out like what's going on and you know doctor says maybe try being stress. I'm like, "Oh, okay." But I mean it was all that and it was also, I know it was self-imposed, but you know I had to be perfect. Can't like bourbon, can't like cigars, oh oh, you know can't want to go to see our rated movies and that part of it too of like having to monitor my 

Rich Bennett 10:52
> 

Eric Robinson 10:52
words. 

Rich Bennett 10:52
never thought about 

Eric Robinson 10:54
> just again, there's there's pastors out there who do the same thing, 

Rich Bennett 11:00
that. Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 11:01
it just didn't affect them like it does like it had 

Rich Bennett 11:04
time. 

Eric Robinson 11:04
me 

Rich Bennett 11:04
>, wow. So now you're in the FBI, I mean not now, but you're in the church, you're in the FBI. So besides the second week when you, when they asked you, was there any times where your background as a pastor actually helped 

Eric Robinson 11:23
all 

Rich Bennett 11:23
with 

Eric Robinson 11:23
the 

Rich Bennett 11:23
what you were doing. 

Eric Robinson 11:24
>>Yeah, all the time. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean I had to, you've got to connect with people, you've 

Rich Bennett 11:32
learn. 

Eric Robinson 11:32
got 

Rich Bennett 11:32
>, 

Eric Robinson 11:32
to >>Got to be curious, you know, I learn patience, no matter you know what equipment we have, guns, legal process, computers. Eventually you have to do this 

Rich Bennett 11:45
mm-hmm. 

Eric Robinson 11:46
and that's with victims, you know, I've got to be sensitive when I'm trying to draw out witnesses, you know, being open to what they have to say informants, same thing, I got to show them that I care. And then the criminals. 

> sought to bring conversations to a level maybe they didn't expect where 

Rich Bennett 12:10
>. 

Eric Robinson 12:11
I come into your house, me and 12 of my buddies point guns at you, tear it down your door, put you in handcuffs, I've already shown I'm in charge. I don't have to pound the table, and yell, you know, I know I'm in charge. And so now I'm going to bring it to a place where I can show some kindness, some humanity. And hopefully the criminals respond well to that 

Rich Bennett 12:36
did. 

Eric Robinson 12:36
and 

Rich Bennett 12:37
>. 

Eric Robinson 12:37
they often >>You know, if they if they want me to play bad cop fine, you know, I'll do that. But being that good cop usually broke through to people where they found themselves telling me things, they probably shouldn't have been telling me. 

Rich Bennett 12:50
>. I guess you really had you had an advantage over a lot of other people I was thinking, yes, B. I. Because of that background. 

Eric Robinson 13:00
yeah. >, I mean it's a mixture of it's the background. It's who I was. You know, 

Rich Bennett 13:05
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 13:05
I would see other agents and like, man, that guy is good. You know, and he used to be a banker. You know, people just, I mean, the FBI looks to have people from diverse backgrounds so that 

Rich Bennett 13:19
Makes 

Eric Robinson 13:20
when we're 

Rich Bennett 13:20
sense, 

Eric Robinson 13:21
collaborating cases, I can get cops. I can get military. Those guys bring great strategies, great thought process. But if it's all former cops, everybody's just thinking like a cop. You get somebody who used to be a history teacher. You know, this guy was in the tech field, like now people are bringing different ideas and perspectives. And since we worked long-term enterprise investigations, you've got that time to to look at subjects and cases from a different angle. 

Rich Bennett 13:53
> never even thought about that. I guess that's one of the biggest misconceptions about the FBI. You got, 

Eric Robinson 14:01
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 14:01
> is from all walks of life and careers. 

Eric Robinson 14:05
>, I mean, we can get white guys all day. 

Rich Bennett 14:08
>, yeah. 

Eric Robinson 14:09
>, you know, you're looking to get whatever someone is. Like, it just helps to fill those gaps. So, you know, if I'm in the military, you're in the military, and we're sitting down trying to work a case, you know, you're thinking like I'm thinking and 

Rich Bennett 14:25
we're 

Eric Robinson 14:26
going to, we're going to miss something that's obvious to a school teacher or a plumber, whatever might be. 

Rich Bennett 14:32
>>That's amazing. That is, I just mind boggling now because, you know, you think about that and say, a history teacher 

Eric Robinson 14:42
>. 

Rich Bennett 14:42
in the FBI? Why would they want? Because I mean think about a lot of people think FBI they think I guess like police officers 

Eric Robinson 14:51
>. 

Rich Bennett 14:52
officers, officers, guys that are ready to just go in and bust down the doors and everything. 

Eric Robinson 14:59
What? That was me. But I 

Rich Bennett 15:01
Right? 

Eric Robinson 15:02
was a pastor. So 

Rich Bennett 15:03
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 15:03
I remember so my first assignment was to Chicago and I was on the drug squad because obviously the FBI goes this guy knows Muslims. Let's to come on a drug squad. Okay. And there was a guy on and he was on the SWAT team, but a guy on my squad, he looked like Stone Cold Steve Austin. Size looks like guy was big and I was like, hey, Dana, what did you do before? He said I in a bank and I thought, huh, you know, and that just shows you, people are coming from different walks and I never handled a gun before I got in the FBI, but by the time-- 

Rich Bennett 15:40
really? 

Eric Robinson 15:40
No, man, never shy. I didn't know. When we first started, like I'm skipping them off the concrete going, oh, I hope I get this, we graduate, like these guys are up here, I'm down here and then they're raising a little bit, but I'm getting as proficient as they are. And by the time I'm in for 10 years, our firearms instructor challenges me and says, hey, I think you should be an instructor too. I guess I better get better and work on it. And there we go. 

Rich Bennett 16:10
That's amazing because the fact that you never on a gun beforehand, and yet your firearms instructor and even on the SWAT team. Wow. 

Eric Robinson 16:21
I wasn't our best shooter, but I put money on me if we had to. 

Rich Bennett 16:26
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wow. All right. So when it comes to people thinking about the FBI, like I said, a lot of them think it's busted in the doors, all the action and the excitement. 

What do you wish more people actually understood about the emotional side of the job? 

Eric Robinson 16:47
I 

love telling stories about the amazing things we got to do. And 

Rich Bennett 16:53
I love hearst 

Eric Robinson 16:54
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 16:54
too. 

Eric Robinson 16:55
But like I'm picking out like, hey, that's October 12, you know, 2016. Here's a great story. Meanwhile, leading up to October 12, 2016 are like nine months of like fighting with an informant who's not doing getting judicial process, you know, getting on the phone with T-Mobile because they're not bringing things back. So there's a there's just a lot that goes into it. And so tenacity is one of those attributes that agents need to have. So police work dispatch says here's a call, you go to it. You know, I liken it to, I'm going to put a blindfold on you, spin your round three times and say here's, here's your scenario. That sucks for us. It's different because we're looking to dig down into the route as much as we can and then find the breadth of who else is involved. And that might take eight months. It might take four years. 

Rich Bennett 17:54
Building that case up. Yeah? I guess it makes sense. I mean, because if you go in too early in pool, man, changes are when they get the court, they can walk away. 

Eric Robinson 18:05
Yeah. And because of that, when I did the post arrest interrogation, obviously I'm looking for a confession, because by the time that goes to your defense attorney, guys like, uh, let's start looking for a plea deal. But I don't need that because I'm not, I'm not arresting you unless I know we're going to win this and it's not just me. The prosecutor's not going to let me because I could bring to him like, okay, here's eight guys I want to indict and they're going to go, yeah, two of these guys are probably going to go to trial cases and as strong on them. We're not indicting them. Let's stick with these six. 

Rich Bennett 18:39
Right. 

Eric Robinson 18:40
And then those, and those six are hammers. 

Rich Bennett 18:43
I don't know if you can answer this or not. if you can, I understand why, but with cases, what cases actually stayed with you long after they were closed? Are you allowed to 

Eric Robinson 18:58
about, 

Rich Bennett 18:58
talk 

Eric Robinson 18:58
oh, yeah. I wrote, I wrote about it at length in my 

Rich Bennett 19:01
yeah, 

Eric Robinson 19:01
book. So 

Rich Bennett 19:02
okay. I was sure that's 

Eric Robinson 19:03
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 19:04
okay. 

Eric Robinson 19:05
I mean that's what people want to hear about I assume because that's the stuff that I find interesting to that hey here's here's a case from ground floor highlights along the way but you know how we built this out the one that stands with me Moses because I work that the longest was a financial crimes case and it took so long because. You know we had prosecutors moving getting sick with cancer you know some difficulties. Um but this guy in the Toledo Ohio area I had estimated stole at least twenty two million dollars from investors and. 

Rich Bennett 19:44
Wow 

Eric Robinson 19:44
and he was not exaggerating he was a literal sociopath as well. He he would take money from people who needed that money and it just. It didn't fit it meant like he didn't understand it not just like I don't care it didn't make sense 

Rich Bennett 20:04
right 

Eric Robinson 20:05
so there's one woman whose husband died. And she had a disabled son so she invested with this guy so that she could have. I'm a fun to take care of her son and got older and she needed that fifty thousand dollars he's like I don't worry about it I'm gonna get a deal done. You know he starts telling lies and while she's crying he's like I don't know what you're crying about like I'm gonna make you hold someday and he has no intention to. 

Rich Bennett 20:35
Wow how long did that case take to close. 

Eric Robinson 20:40
Well I mean that took four years I mean this guy started. I can see the grain your beard so I know you'll understand this reference. 

Rich Bennett 20:48
Well wait wait wait me oh air first all I got to correct you there it's Arctic blonde 

Eric Robinson 20:54
okay. 

Thi is this is a this is powder donut 

Rich Bennett 21:01
it's definitely white now my. 

Eric Robinson 21:04
But uh so this guy was. Worked with MCI world come back in the day this is a mid 90s and he was the guy who would call and say how much your paying per minute for your long distance I can get you down to twelve cents. And so he he was bundling these minutes so legitimately making a million dollars a year in the mid 90s in a legitimate business. MCI crashes and then he moves on to other businesses. And each had a real product but they needed they needed investors to build out the product you know it was he was not fully developed so he's getting investors and. Spending the money on himself and then he's like hey company. Some sometimes they work sometimes they don't onto the next repeat and I'm from there he had uh he had the technology for what later became being. But because he spent all the money on himself it defaulted went back to the original owner 

Rich Bennett 22:08
while 

yeah I can do it I'm glad you did write a book now because this is there's a lot of good stories in 

Eric Robinson 22:20
there oh yeah. 

Rich Bennett 22:21
How did you be coming a cynical after seeing the worst parts of humanity 

Eric Robinson 22:26
never said I was a central. 

Rich Bennett 22:28
okay 

Eric Robinson 22:29
Is something that you have to be aware of in the example that I often think of is first five years in Chicago I'm working dope week our mandate was to work Mexican and Colombian drug cartels. So every Mexican I encountered in Chicago was a drug dealer or helping a drug dealer or knew the drug dealer didn't care. So that just tells me all these Mexicans man that's all they do and I had to confront myself with that like realizing that not that I really believe that but I was starting to think. Okay this is all that I see I need to be careful so it took some self assessment awareness chatting with the like minded colleague of like hey man is this happening to you because this is all that goes on and I come to realize. You know you're telling your neighbor like man there's a lot of birds out here and you go yeah you're a bird watcher that's all you do all day when I check in in the morning and say I'm gonna start looking for criminals. But I'm gonna see a lot of criminals. 

Rich Bennett 23:39
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 23:39
So having that realization that yeah this is what I'm trying to do so if I see a lot of dirty stuff it's what I'm looking for it's not everybody. 

Rich Bennett 23:50
Okay so when you were the pastor you were you had to stress headaches. 

Eric Robinson 23:55
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 23:56
But being an FBI especially a special agent. How was there on your mental health? 

Eric Robinson 24:06
just wasn't the same. I mean, if you know, I could have an accomplishment and then move on to the next task, as opposed to, you know, just continuing to build and like nobody's, like if you're in my church, it's not like you come to me and then I make you perfect and great. Now I'm gonna move on to make the next person perfect. Like it's dealing with people and it's unending. My brother was a therapist for a while and he's like, he worked with kids and he's like, 'This kid comes in, there's another kid after him and it's just constant and it gets to be depressing'. 

Rich Bennett 24:45
yeah, 

Eric Robinson 24:45
That was hard for me in the church. You know, here I could like, got an indictment moving on to the next guy and feel like I'm making a difference and accomplishing something. 

Rich Bennett 24:55
So even, I'm glad you mentioned kids so even like with the child exploitation or that, really didn't, uh, 

Eric Robinson 25:04
There's 

a couple things with that. 

Rich Bennett 25:08
yeah. 

Eric Robinson 25:08
One is, if I grabbed you and dragged you into it from the street, yeah, it's gonna be shocking. We were waiting in that water for a bit, kind of getting used to the water. So it's, it's not quite the same. So like you're already a part of it. And also, 

people would come to me, I mean, even cops. And they'd say, 'I don't know how you deal with these pedophiles. 

Rich Bennett 25:36
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 25:37
I would just want to put a bullet in their head.' And I think, yeah, I get it, but they already know that they're disgusting. They hate themselves as it is. I don't need this in force that. I know that I'm bringing them the worst thing for them by getting them to confess by working towards a conviction. That's how we're gonna get justice so I can set aside the anger and just like, hey, doing my job. 

Rich Bennett 26:03
Wow. So with the teenagers or children, financial crime victims, everything else was there actually a particular victim or case that actually really changed the way you see people. I 

Eric Robinson 26:23
can, yeah, many. I mean, working with the teen prostitutes, sex workers, and working with the pimps really open my eyes to how people are living. I mean, it's, it's something you can read a book about here, a podcast, but here I am, sitting with a 15-year-old girl who has sex with strange men repeatedly. And I try to mention this to people like, it's shocking if you think like if you have a woman in your life, daughter, wife, sister, and you think what would it take for them today to step across that threshold where they're gonna have sex with strange men every I mean, that's, that's a tremendous barrier that you and I could not imagine getting across and yet here they are at 

Rich Bennett 27:19
day. Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 27:19
15-16. 

So that tells you that they've probably been through that threshold already. Like they've they've been broken by someone sexually. And also it shows you the level of desperation where they're going to do it because otherwise they're gonna starve. 

Rich Bennett 27:42
Yeah. Wow. And you guy and you saw that a lot too. 

Eric Robinson 27:47
Yeah. And got to joke around. I my my colleague Laura, great woman, very patient. She was working the crimes against children before I got there. Again, our mandate at that time was mainly working towards the sex trafficking so underage girls and you know, she was very straight and very earnest and we were driving this 15-year-old gal around and she was pointing out places where she had tricked and then she says, "Man, I could really use a cigarette." And I go, "I got cigars in the car." And so here's Laura like going, how are you giving us a guard who a 15-year-old girl I'm like, "Laura, she has sex with men for money." 

Rich Bennett 28:38
Oh. 

Eric Robinson 28:38
This is fine. But, you know, I'm trying to do whatever it takes to, I need to reach her, I 

Rich Bennett 28:48
her, 

Eric Robinson 28:48
need to show 

Rich Bennett 28:49
that 

Eric Robinson 28:50
I'm not like, "Well, I'm not gonna give you a cigarette young lady." Like you're just gonna get a cigarette when I leave. What difference is it... I'm not putting heroin in her veins. I'm trying to build a 

Rich Bennett 29:01
relationship. 

Eric Robinson 29:03
I'm going to say that I'm also going to say that I'm too 'cause I'm going to say, I'm not going to say that I'm a rich, but that's-- but again if I go back in time to talk to me when I'm like 24 years old and I go, "Hey, uh, at some point you're going to be in a parking lot with a teenage prostitute smoking cigars and I'd say, "Excuse me?" 

Rich Bennett 29:31
When 

justice alone didn't feel like it was enough. 

Eric Robinson 29:38
Well, yeah, because, I mean, especially with these girls, like you can bring justice, you can separate them from the pimps who were the love of their life, you know, and they're spitting and slapping me because I'm taking away their boyfriend and, like, and then maybe a few weeks later now they're starting to get it. 

As soon as we had that arrest, I remember the first time we did a sting, we're calling in a girl to an undercover thinking, "Okay, I think she might be underage, we get her." Yep, she is, arrest the pimp, and I remember going, Well, hell now what, you know, what do we do now? We can do that. 

Rich Bennett 30:22
"Yeah." 

Eric Robinson 30:22
What do we do with the girl? You send her back to the foster home, she's running away, like she did before. We don't want to put her in detention, but maybe we have to because that's the only way to have her safe for the moment. So, and we get in these tough situations where, you know, what do we do after this? What do we do once we have done the legal job to find something that shows that we care? 

Rich Bennett 30:47
Right. 

Eric Robinson 30:48
And, and probably so a good example of that was, I'd gotten out of the crimes against children. I was working national security, but my buddy was working it, and he asked me to assist on this arrest that they're doing. So, we had three pastors in the Toledo area, one had brought in a foster girl, it kind of caused I fostered her from his church, and then he was pimping her out. 

Rich Bennett 31:17
What? 

Eric Robinson 31:18
Forcing her into sex. With other pastors, though, so everybody involved was a minister having sex with an underage girl. 

Rich Bennett 31:30
Wow. 

Eric Robinson 31:32
And so, my buddy asked me, hey, will you do the post arrest interrogation, presumably like, hey, we're going to talk to talk. And so, I'm sitting down with him, and we're going to have a come to Jesus. 

Rich Bennett 31:45
Right. 

Eric Robinson 31:46
Discussion. I've got all these Bible verses planned out to talk about repentance, being right with God, confessing your sins, and he's like, hey, man, I'll talk to you, but I don't want to bring Jesus into this. Which showed like how, like, that's the pastor. This is the man. This is the man having sex with an underage girl. The pastor is different. And that's 

Rich Bennett 32:09
yeah, 

Eric Robinson 32:10
some real insight into his psychology that he could get up and, you know, praise Jesus. But, oh, my God, oh, my God, I'm having sex with an underage girl. I mean, that's how he separated it. Well, we ended up, you know, that guy thought he was going to beat the charges went to trial, got a very rare life sentence, which is great. 

Rich Bennett 32:35
Really? 

Eric Robinson 32:35
Yeah, he was offered, I think, 12 and a half years, and he laughed and said, I'll take my chances. So too bad, 

Rich Bennett 32:44
Wow. 

Eric Robinson 32:44
buddy. But the, but the victim. So the victim while we're waiting trial 

gets kidnapped by by the by the pastor's wife and sister. The sister who had been the pastors, again, pastor's daughter, kind of foster sister acted as the bottom bitch who instructed the foster girl the victim how to have sex with men. Like just like a pimple would they have an experienced prostitute saying, hey, this new gal. Here's what you do. Here's how you do it. Now that daughter and mom kidnap their former foster child to tell her say it was all mistakes. Say you lied as if we didn't have evidence, and she ends up getting away along the way. Okay, they get pulled over by the police and she with a gun at her doesn't say anything and the police let him go like it was a crazy night. All this goes on your original question was is there more that than justice and I ran into our victim coordinator a year or so ago at a retirement party. And I was telling her about, hey, remember that story? And she goes, oh, man, she shows me a picture. Hey, here's her kid. She just had her first child. She works in the government now. She has come by and spoken at FBI events. Say, here's how the FBI saved my life. So sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's a good ending. 

Rich Bennett 34:45
Oh man, God. Now I understand it at the beginning when I said how this sounds like a Hollywood screenplay. 

Eric Robinson 34:56
That was wild, man. 

Rich Bennett 34:59
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Eric Robinson 36:23
Yeah, so SWAT is going to be an ancillary role. So I was still a field agent investigator and then 

Rich Bennett 36:29
OK, 

Eric Robinson 36:29
you know, then going to training, getting called out, doing some specialty things. And so I think I joined SWAT when I was like 42, 43. So it ain't an old man's game. I was getting on the team pretty late in life. And by the time we finish on 56 years old at the And I'm asking guys on the teams and the young guys, like, Hey, man, what was your mom's main name again? Because I think I think I got the third base with her at the prom because these kids could be my, like my legitimate children. 

What to 

Rich Bennett 37:15
fair, 

Eric Robinson 37:15
be 

Rich Bennett 37:16
you had to be you had to keep your sanity 

Eric Robinson 37:17
somehow. Yeah, yeah, but to be fair in the Robinson family growing up shelter third base is a peck on the cheeks out. 

Rich Bennett 37:26
Oh 

God, I so again, I love the stories, but when you were part of SWAT was there one particular thing that stuck with you event. 

Eric Robinson 37:38
God. Yeah, it was, it was a day almost two years ago where we ended up having to kill a kid 

Rich Bennett 37:45
Oh 

Eric Robinson 37:45
who is a 

Rich Bennett 37:45
my 

Eric Robinson 37:46
subject. And crazy events. So SWAT gets called out like any time a supervisor says, Hey, I just feel like it'd be better with SWAT will respond. And then otherwise there's a threat matrix where guys got guns, violent criminal history, cameras, dogs, difficult terrain, like those things now it mandates SWAT's got to do this. And so I was trained the same as any agent and then with SWAT like now I'm getting more training we have more equipment some specialty tools. And so we were called to Canton Ohio area for this kid and the terrain was difficult as way off the road and he had been violent with the police in the past. It was distribution of child pornography and that starts raising the threat level because we see these guys knowing this is this is it so they'll shoot themselves or at us. So SWAT comes in, I'm in a vehicle with two other guys and we're pushing down the side of the house so we can cover the rear and the side. And we set up a tactical L everybody knows their fields of fire and we're behind a ballistic rated vehicle. And we get set and my buddy Steve calls out throw down the bat. So the kid 26 years old had knocked out a first floor window come out with a bat in his hand deliberately coming towards us. fire arm, you know, it's ended. But with the bat, we're like, come on man. So we go through this period of retreating and moving, calling out. I'm on my mic saying, hey, we need a hands team because I think if he puts a bat down, we're gonna rush him, 

Rich Bennett 39:44
right. 

Eric Robinson 39:55
Uh, our use of lethal force was the first in the FBI with body-worn cameras. And when I reviewed, reviewed the tapes later, it was 10 seconds. It was 10 seconds between me saying, let's get a hands team and them getting together and we're on my back. But in 

Rich Bennett 40:14
Right. 

Eric Robinson 40:14
those 10 seconds, the kid came around the vehicle, you know, we can only retreat so far and his last words were 'kill me'. So he ran forward with a bat and hand. 

Rich Bennett 40:27
Wow. 

Eric Robinson 40:27
I had, I had moved off line, so my two buddies would have a clean field of fire and I had a flashbang that I was trying to throw to just disrupt him. 

Rich Bennett 40:37
Right. 

Eric Robinson 40:38
I went to the bank and it went off his feet and he went to the ground and I thought, that's weird. Why would he, why would he go to the ground with that. And then like all this in a half second, I go, oh, I heard shots. So all that took place just in so much time and I asked Steve, I'm like, hey, guess how long that was like how long do you think that was and he's like about five minutes and I go, yeah, it felt like that but I bet it was shorter. I was like a minute and 10 seconds and 10,000 things happened in that time. 

So later, I've got my Garmin watch on and I check and you can tell me the minute we engaged in the shooting. Because you see that heart rate. 

Rich Bennett 41:35
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 41:36
Okay, I'm getting ready to do stuff and then the body says, you need some This is dangerous and I spiked to 178 beats a minute and then I come down. I mean, it was like this. Now if I plateaued 178 beats a minute, I'm not on your show today, cuz I had a heart 

Rich Bennett 41:54
No. 

Eric Robinson 41:54
attack, but like that's part of that, that was the amazing part. Nobody knows you need to act. I'm giving you the energy and then because we'd been in these types of situations so often, body goes great. Now let's clear that house. Let's bring it down and it was, you know, one minute like this. 

Rich Bennett 42:16
Wow. So those of you listening, it just showed me the chart of where his heart rate spiked to, which 178 beats per minute. Most people will be on the floor, I have a heart 

Eric Robinson 42:32
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 42:32
attack. 

Eric Robinson 42:33
I mean, otherwise, otherwise, I'm, you know, okay, we're getting ready for an operation. I'm gonna get a little. 

Rich Bennett 42:38
Right, 

Eric Robinson 42:38
I'm carrying equipment. So otherwise, my heart rate is. you know, 190, 

Rich Bennett 42:45
Right, 

Eric Robinson 42:47
because I got to work here too, but 

Rich Bennett 42:49
then, yeah, 

Eric Robinson 42:50
then it doubles in one minute's time, 

Rich Bennett 42:52
but it comes down 

Eric Robinson 42:53
And 

Rich Bennett 42:53
quickly. 

Eric Robinson 42:53
then it comes right back down. 

Rich Bennett 42:54
That's amazing. 

Eric Robinson 42:55
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 42:56
So where, what are some of the miss biggest misconceptions that people have about SWAT teams? 

Eric Robinson 43:04
Oh, that probably based on how SWAT teams used to act and how some current local teams still act, which is we would use speed, surprise, and violence of action. So get to the house, knock in the door and stand on the guy's chest before, you know, his morning would goes down like got you. And now we move to a surrounding call out, where we have a tactical L and we're drawing people to us and we've had plenty guys like look out a window. They see there's one choice and that's the surrender and and that's all you have. And then by the time we get in clear the house, there's a gun right by the window because he was thinking, let's, let's see what this is about. Is this two sheriff's deputies maybe I can take him know it's 15 guys with lasers pointing in my window and a big bear cat. Okay, and I already hear the drone in the house. So, you know, it went from that, you know, just tough guy, I'm going to beat you to, you know, to the trigger to let's value safety to operators and the public by just have a show of force. And if we need to, we will. We're not going to run into areas where people are going to get killed. 

Rich Bennett 44:25
Wow. 

This with the book, is it going to be an audio form as well? 

Eric Robinson 44:32
Oh, yeah, that absolutely has to be and what's great about that too is. I have my wife's company just started publishing books. She's been weaving influence has been bookmarketers for 14 years and now they're into publishing. They're like, "Hey, let's do publishing." And I'll be the third book that they publish. And so, I tell my wife, I keep teasing her. "Hey, what are we going to do with all this money we make from the book?" She's like, "Books don't make money and I And then I say, "Oh, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to get a buddy on the phone and we're just going to riff during the audiobook and just like insult each other." She says, "Yeah, you can't do that. That's 

Rich Bennett 45:16
know." 

Eric Robinson 45:16
too expensive." But from that, I got this idea, I'm like, "Oh, I'm telling the story of this investigation, my perspective. What if I get a couple of guys who were case agents or assisting on it, give their perspective?" And now we're going to add four or five minutes of audio time to this guy who says, "Yeah, yeah, I remember that arrest. You know, we went in, it was crazy that day and they do that." And then to top it, I'm thinking, "I drive down from Ann Arbor and we pass Miley and Michigan, the Federal Correctional Institution." And I go, "I have guys in there. How about I like this would be great. Here's a story of a guy who tried to kill his judge. I'm going to see if I can interview him and he tells his side and for his perspective, that might be kind of cool. 

Rich Bennett 46:09
That would be awesome." 

Eric Robinson 46:10
That would be awesome. 

Rich Bennett 46:11
"And for some reason, you can't do it as an audio book. It sounds like a podcast series in the making." 

Eric Robinson 46:18
I don't know how many, I don't know how many of the guys I arrested are going to be like, "Yeah, that'd be great. Love to talk to you. I know one at least who, if I call him, he'd go, "Great. Come on, armed." 

Rich Bennett 46:32
This 

Eric Robinson 46:33
guy, there's one kid I arrested who has psychological problems and he's the reason, every time I parked my vehicle, I would scan the parking lot first before I moved. Yeah, he's number one and most likely to try to shoot me in the back of the head. 

This kid is the only one. The guy that I had that long-term financial investigation on, his wife divorced 

Rich Bennett 47:09
him 

Eric Robinson 47:11
and they told everybody I was banging his wife, and I'm like, 

Rich Bennett 47:13
"Okay." 

Eric Robinson 47:16
Then she kicks him out, he marries somebody else. He tells everybody I'm banging her too. I don't understand why I'm getting his leftovers. 

She divorces him in two months because the guy is horrible and then he moves into his sister's place. sister's place is connected to my old neighborhood 

Rich Bennett 47:38
His 

Eric Robinson 47:39
and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." So my kids were little at the time, Halloween comes, Daddy, why are you walking us for trick-or-treat with a gorilla mask on? I'm like, "Well, Daddy doesn't want this guy to see this face with you kids." 

Rich Bennett 47:55
Wow, how is-- Okay, Stu, all your time-- because you were married the whole time you were in the FDI, right? 

Eric Robinson 48:02
Coming on 33-- oh, past 33 years. 

Rich Bennett 48:06
So how is your wife thorn all this time and the kids? 

Eric Robinson 48:09
Yeah, so early on in Chicago, the wife's like, "Oh, text me when you're safe," and you know, she's always where to go, "Baby, I'm not getting shot. I'm going to get in a car accident if I die." It's going to be car accident or heart attack, like, "I'm not getting shot." So, that was early on, by the time I'm in 20 years, I would tell my wife, like, "Hey, we've got an op-on Tuesday." And she goes, "Oh, okay, I'll put it in the calendar." Like, like, the guy's kind of dangerous actually. She's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." He told an informant that he wouldn't be taking a life. And she's like, "I said, I'll put it in the calendar." Okay, you know, from like, "Hey, man, you don't need to be so nervous," so like, "Yeah, but put a little respect on it here." 

Rich Bennett 48:56
Yeah. 

So she's been a true rock then, 

Eric Robinson 49:04
Yeah, I mean, she's been through it. And all along, I tried to-- it was an adjustment for sure, because I didn't know 

Rich Bennett 49:09
yeah. 

Eric Robinson 49:10
law enforcement. She didn't know law enforcement. But at the same time, you know, I'm not golfing all weekend. I'm coming home every night as soon as I can. I didn't neglect the family. I had an instructor in Kwanoko, said hey guys, y'know, law enforcement's hard on a marriage, I'm on my 5th I'm 'k', that's you man. Like, there's a problem with you there. Don't be blame in the FBI, don't be shading the FBI for your problems, but- But because I was there, then, hey, I gotta be gone this day. Hey, I've got to, be out all night for this. I expected that the family understood, okay, here's a time, this is important. All the other times, Dad's there, so that's acceptable. 

Rich Bennett 49:57
Wow. Are you saying your wife runs the company that's publishing the book? 

Eric Robinson 50:02
Yes, weaving influence established in 2012, uh, she's been marketing authors and speakers for 14 years, 

Rich Bennett 50:11
Really? 

Eric Robinson 50:11
and they've been doing that so much, that they're like, y'know, they started building websites for people too, if that's what they want. Now they're like, well, so many people are coming to us and saying, well, I'll just guess I'll just hybrid publish, and they're like, oh, we can do that. So, 

Rich Bennett 50:30
yeah. 

Eric Robinson 50:30
Now they publishing books as well. 

Rich Bennett 50:34
I don't need to get her on the show too, I love talking to publishers. 

Eric Robinson 50:38
Yeah? 

Rich Bennett 50:39
Especially because how much it's changed ever since, you know, am it is a self-publishing? 

Eric Robinson 50:45
Yeah? 

Rich Bennett 50:45
He has 

Eric Robinson 50:46
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 50:46
become a thing. 

Eric Robinson 50:47
let me see. Let's see if I can get this. I can show you my book cover. Let's see. Uh, yeah, so we went, we've been through the process of picking book covers and figuring out what it's gonna be, and 

I'm gonna get the right one here. Here we go. That is going to be my book cover. 

Rich Bennett 51:14
Oh, nice. 

Eric Robinson 51:15
Isn't that... I mean, that's professional. That's 

Rich Bennett 51:18
Yeah, 

Eric Robinson 51:18
looking... 

Rich Bennett 51:19
and she designed 

Eric Robinson 51:20
did. 

Rich Bennett 51:20
it? 

Eric Robinson 51:21
Uh, no. I mean, her company 

Rich Bennett 51:22
The company 

Eric Robinson 51:23
did. Yeah, she's got graphic designers. We got a professional photographer. I'm like, you made me look good. You must be a pro. Look at that. 

Rich Bennett 51:31
[laughing] 

Oh, geez. Man, I have a funny feeling that, yes, we know it's hard to make a living selling or becoming an author, an author pernore, but I have a funny feeling this book is gonna take all of when it comes out. 

Eric Robinson 51:54
I hope so. I think it's... I mean, obviously you know this. And when I was in the Bureau, like, it was, you know, it's that joke, and like some of my swap buddies like, Hey, that guy over there guess what he used to do? And they tell him like, so it was always kind of that cute little thing, but now that I'm out, I look back and go, are you kidding me? Is Baptist Pastor, you know, that's what I... I wasn't anybody special, and then I got to do this, and so the stories I tell are... I think the kind of things that people read, like, yeah, that could be me. You know, 

Rich Bennett 52:26
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 52:26
that's interesting. That's, that's, that's insight into how things work. It's not... I mean, the stories are, I think, remarkable, but they're also the kind go, okay. Yeah. That makes sense. I've read plenty of other FBI books and they come off as a little fantastical, not that they're not true, but like, you know, glory and honor and stuff. And like, nah. This is a... this is a common folks book, and, and as a marine, I would assume that you can appreciate this. I tell the story. Here's a case we worked. Here's how we went through it. And then I follow up each chapter with an after action review. Like this... 

Rich Bennett 53:05
Oh, 

Eric Robinson 53:05
this is why... this is why it worked. This is where we almost screwed it, you know. You know, and then also, hey, here's another story related to that. Just a little vignette to tie it all together 

Rich Bennett 53:16
right. 

Eric Robinson 53:17
of why this works. 

Rich Bennett 53:19
All right, so the title or reverend, and those of you listening, it's I R and then reverend, how'd you come up with the title? 

Eric Robinson 53:27
So the original title that, like, the working title I had is one that I used all the time, which is preacher to preacher. 

Rich Bennett 53:35
That's what I kind of 

Eric Robinson 53:36
to... 

Rich Bennett 53:36
like that 

Eric Robinson 53:36
It is a good one. 

Rich Bennett 53:38
Yeah. Sounds like a sequel. 

Eric Robinson 53:40
Yeah. But then, going through, like, yeah, let's work on that... that one word title, and... You know, obviously I was a reverend. Okay, so that plays into it. But one of my copy editors who went through and read the book, and she goes, "When you read it, it makes sense because there's a lot of irreverent things that the humor I use, I have an entire chapter on how I've made men shit themselves. I don't know if that sells more books. If people don't like it, they can skip that chapter." 

But come on, man. That's unique. That's unique that I have a chapter on how I have induced men to 

Rich Bennett 54:28
body. 

Eric Robinson 54:28
evacuate their 

I mean enough for a whole chapter, bro, enough for a whole chapter. 

Rich Bennett 54:34
That is good, that is good. Hello dude, actually take you to write the book. 

Eric Robinson 54:41
I don't want to sell things. I 

Rich Bennett 54:45
I've from 

Eric Robinson 54:45
feel 

Rich Bennett 54:45
from the thought from once you started thinking, uh, 

Eric Robinson 55:03
and then we'll use that as the springboard. 

Rich Bennett 55:05
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 55:05
I think I've always wanted to, but I didn't write down the stories. And I felt like it was too late after a time on. So I like, 

Rich Bennett 55:13
Right. 

Eric Robinson 55:13
well, let me sit down and see. And I start writing and it just goes, and the basis of the book, even though I went, I went over and over at many, many, many times after and changed stuff, five weekends, 

Rich Bennett 55:31
really. 

Eric Robinson 55:32
Yeah. Like, it just, it's easy. It's like this. I'm just telling the story. 

Rich Bennett 55:37
Yeah, you're on a roll. 

Eric Robinson 55:39
Yeah. And like, here's all the stuff. Let me put it in. Oh. Let me tell this story. This is a 

Rich Bennett 55:46
Okay. 

Eric Robinson 55:46
great one. Oh, yeah. You know, you know, then I'm moving into the next 

Rich Bennett 55:49
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 55:49
one and like, let me follow up. You know, that long term financial investigation is three chapters. It's the main guy. Okay. Yeah. It's the ancillary guys around him because, you know, we had a pastor who tortured a kid but also was involved in foreign bonds that were fake. You know, we've got attorneys who are dirty like so many crazy characters. And then the third chapter is the follow on case we had on his gay realtor who also engaged in fraud and tried to steal money from well did steal money from a disabled elderly woman and was the worst person I've ever met my life. 

Rich Bennett 56:32
Did you enjoy writing the book? 

Eric Robinson 56:33
Oh, yeah. It's great. 

Rich Bennett 56:36
So here's, here's the thing now because you know, a lot of people, when you write a memoir, it's like, okay, so it's done. I can't write another memoir. But the thing with all the stories, all the things that you've seen, just like I mean. 

Eric Robinson 56:53
these are my these are my notes from the stories I didn't tell. Like, 

Rich Bennett 56:57
Oh, 

Eric Robinson 56:57
oh, let me put that one down too. 

Rich Bennett 56:59
But that's just it. Each case could be a separate book. 

Eric Robinson 57:03
Yeah. I mean, if you're really digging into it, there's so much more you could tell 

Rich Bennett 57:10
when 

Eric Robinson 57:10
one of my editors was going through with me, you know, she said, hey, you got to kill your darlings. And I go, yeah, let's do it. And I found so many paragraphs or segments where I tell us, I tell a kind of kind of interesting story. 

Rich Bennett 57:29
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 57:30
But then when I look at it, I'm like, that's only kind of interesting. If I take out that, then that highlights the very interesting ones. So again, with this financial case, I, you know, I put in a paragraph where we're dealing with this daughter. And how she refused to accept service for grand jury. And so I just, you know, stood in the front yard and said, hey, you're going to take service. So I'm just going to turn on the blue and red lights. And later she apologized to me. And you know, it's interesting. 

Rich Bennett 58:00
Yeah. 

Eric Robinson 58:01
But then I go, that's, you know, I'm getting off path. If we're going to run this, let's run straight. And so, you know. I feel like making it tighter keeps it flowing. And you go, okay, that was cool. Oh, wait, you're going to tell me a story about this guy who's going to be a mass shooter. But, you know, you got an informant in on him before he was able to do it. Great. Boom into that. Tell that story. Next one. L talk about informants. Here's some crazy informants I've had. 

Rich Bennett 58:31
All right. So how many more books do you have? 

Eric Robinson 58:36
Well, we'll have the children's book and it'll be a personal record of like how to shit your pants, 

Rich Bennett 58:41
the. 

Eric Robinson 58:41
you know, for 

Rich Bennett 58:51
Very important, where can people go to find you and follow you and I know get the book will be 

Eric Robinson 58:58
But 

Rich Bennett 58:59
everywhere. 

Eric Robinson 58:59
yeah, yeah. So I did save the preacher to preacher. So you can find me at preacher to preacher.com. That's a great place. Yeah. Follow along and you'll see when the book's coming out. Or you can, you know, look at me on Instagram underscore Eric underscore Robinson LinkedIn type my name. My face will be there with the FBI. And, you know, folks can keep tabs that way until the book comes out. 

Rich Bennett 59:27
Eric, is there anything you would like to add before you pick the last 

Eric Robinson 59:33
If I not said enough, I feel 

Rich Bennett 59:35
question? 

Eric Robinson 59:35
like I probably said a few things I shouldn't. 

Rich Bennett 59:38
I think we could go on for hours just here as some of the stories and the funny thing is those of you listening you didn't see my facial expressions because I was shot at a lot of these. I was laughing at a lot of them and I knew there were some you haven't told that probably be crying. Who knows? 

Eric Robinson 59:57
Yeah I tried. I thought let's stick with the laughing ones. How about that? 

Rich Bennett 1:00:01
Well actually before I get to Lesko, now that you're retired what are you doing now? Are you back at the church? 

Eric Robinson 1:00:09
I I mowed the lawn yesterday. That was good. 

I I had to struggle with this existentially honestly um you know you see guys retire along the way and I'm like yeah he was a good guy 

Rich Bennett 1:00:24
Yeah 

Eric Robinson 1:00:25
and then a few years ago maybe three years ago my first close friend retired and I want damn you know that he was the best shot in the Cleveland division and then he just became a guy and I remember like talking to him I'm like hey uh Johnny what you doing like the slot want to know you know tell 

Rich Bennett 1:00:46
yeah 

Eric Robinson 1:00:46
me he's like eh watching the grandkids like oh yeah what else he's like grandkids yeah exactly enjoy retirement so I knew coming up like I thought you know that was me that I was I was that guy 

Rich Bennett 1:01:03
right 

Eric Robinson 1:01:04
for many FBI agents you're that guy you know you've got an important role it's an honorable role and you start thinking oh man what happens when I'm not and retirement has been good uh 

Rich Bennett 1:01:20
good 

Eric Robinson 1:01:21
so we'll see next steps from here of like consulting speaking more books who knows 

Rich Bennett 1:01:27
whatever the wife tells you 

Eric Robinson 1:01:29
I'll listen to her. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:31
Oh yeah well you're 

Eric Robinson 1:01:32
hope 

Rich Bennett 1:01:32
a after 29 years I know it's like okay whatever you 

Eric Robinson 1:01:38
yes 

Rich Bennett 1:01:38
give me the honey do list 

Eric Robinson 1:01:40
yes 

Rich Bennett 1:01:41
I'll do it I'll get it done I said Eric I need you to pick I always let the uh guess picked the last question even though they don't know what it's going to be and I don't know what it's going to be so I need you to pick a number between one and five 

Eric Robinson 1:01:54
uh three 

Rich Bennett 1:01:56
three now I need you to pick a number between 41 and 60 

51 51 

wow this works with retirement I guess what's a simple pleasure in life that you believe is often overlooked 

Eric Robinson 1:02:20
that's well I mean it depends on the people but uh solitude I mean me that's that's a big thing I enjoy people but I also need solitude 

Rich Bennett 1:02:35
yeah 

Eric Robinson 1:02:35
and taking that time to think I I have for the past few years um really try to adopt mindfulness I started when I was I knew I was going to be retiring because it's mandatory time and I thought I need to not just take actual pictures but to take pictures of what's going on and to remember and to appreciate and and that's much of what I would teach people in firearms like don't just go out there and do this and then go ah what was your grip what was your breath and then what was a result okay so that worked you need to be aware of what it was to make it work and so now try to have that too of like what's going on with me I don't want to just live life and have it wash over me you want to be able to drink in a bit and know this is why this is happening this is what's going on for me 

Rich Bennett 1:03:36
uh great answer Eric I want to thank you so much it's been a true honor and you know when the next book comes out the doors open actually take that back the doors open anytime and your wife too because I 

Eric Robinson 1:03:50
to 

Rich Bennett 1:03:50
would 

Eric Robinson 1:03:50
hear 

Rich Bennett 1:03:51
love

Eric Robinson 1:03:51
yeah yeah absolutely

Rich Bennett 1:03:53
When most of us think about the FBI, we picture action, investigations, and high stakes operations. When we think about a pastor, we picture sermons, compassion, and guiding people through life's toughest moments. Eric Robinson lived both of those lives. And today he showed us they aren't nearly as different as they might seem, from carrying the weight of a congregation, to carrying a badge, and then working with victims of financial crimes and child exploitation to servant on the FBI swatting. Eric reminded us that no matter what uniform we wear, our greatest impact often comes from how we treat people. One thing that really stood out to me was that justice isn't just about making a rest. It's about restoring hope whenever possible. Whether he was comforting victims, interviewing suspects with dignity, or reflecting on the emotional cost of the job, Eric never lost sight of the humanity behind every case. His common memoir isn't just a collection of FBI stories. It's a story about purpose, faith, resilience, and discovering that sometimes God leads us down paths, we never expect it. Eric, thank you for your years of service, for sharing these incredible stories, and for reminding us that strength and compassion don't have to exist separately. And to all of you listening, if this conversation made you think a little differently about service, leadership, or even your own purpose, I'd love to hear from you. What's one lesson from Eric's journey that resonated with you the most? Until next time, I'm Rich Bennett. Thanks for listening, and remember, every great conversation starts with someone willing to listen and someone willing to share. Now it's your turn. Join the conversation by sharing this episode, leave a comment, or reach an anthem me directly. Take care, be kind to one another, and I'll talk with you again soon.