David Goldberg: The Truth About Polygraph Tests

Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Hartford County living presents, Conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Thank you. (Laughter)

Rich Bennett 0:27
When most people hear the word 'Telegraph', they pitch up criminal investigations, interrogation rooms, and scenes from television. But what if a polygraph could also help clear someone's name, rebuild trust, settle a family dispute, or provide closure when an unanswered question has kept someone from moving forward? David Goldberg is a Virginia State licensed, advanced, board-certified polygraph examiner with more than 25 years of experience and thousands of examinations behind him. He is also a retired law enforcement officer and a September 11th First Responder. Today we're going beyond the familiar myths to learn how polygraph testing actually works, where it can and cannot help, and why the truth can sometimes be the first step toward healing. How's it going, David? 

David Goldberg 1:26
Good, fine Rich, thank you so much for allowing me to come onto your podcast, I really truly appreciate it. 

Yeah, I think we have. 

Rich Bennett 1:47
Oh, I want to say, so I only record 3-8 episodes, do 3 podcast, plus a good news website. I'll give you a little bit. My wife always forgets when I look like, anyway, so before we get into hot help, polygraphs actually work, take me back to the beginning, what actually led you into law enforcement, and eventually into this highly specialized field? 

David Goldberg 2:17
I guess what led me into law enforcement was, I guess growing up, I lived in a neighborhood where there was a lot of police officers that lived in my neighborhood, and then I didn't know this until later on, but I lived next door to an FBI agent. Wow, I didn't know that until I got hurt as a young... 

Rich Bennett 2:43
Okay, 

David Goldberg 2:44
And then, he was the only transportation that could take me when I was young to the hospital, so he took me to the hospital, because my dad was working, and he couldn't get off, and my mom didn't drive, so he happened to be home, we knocked on the door, and he, of course, wasn't a FBI agent, had his take home car, and so it was kind of cool. So talking to him, and learning about law enforcement, and stuff like that, so I got into that, and watching all the '70s, police and law enforcement shows back then, really got the spark going. So I went to school, obviously, and then what really got me into law enforcement, I guess you could say, was I joined the military. 

Rich Bennett 3:33
right. 

David Goldberg 3:34
And the service and duty really sparked an interest, and then my professional career in the military, I worked alongside law enforcement, and the intelligence field. And so once I got out of the military, that's where I was heading. I was going directly into law enforcement, and then, 

Rich Bennett 3:55
where 

David Goldberg 3:56
my career started, and then I became a polygraph examiner. 

Rich Bennett 4:03
All right, so, but that was in your plan, you weren't planning on becoming a polygraph examiner originally, weren't 

David Goldberg 4:10
you? Oh, no, not all. I mean, I didn't even think that that was even a career, or 

Rich Bennett 4:15
a 

David Goldberg 4:16
job, until I got into law enforcement. 

Rich Bennett 4:20
Wow. All right, so now you're doing the polygraph testing. Do you remember the first polygraph examination you conducted? 

David Goldberg 4:29
Oh, absolutely. I think every examiner does. It was a homicide. 

Rich Bennett 4:33
Oh my god. 

David Goldberg 4:35
Right. And so if that wasn't scary, that was scary. So, um, I was on call and it was a homicide. And the detective said, you're available. I said, yep. And they said, well, we need you. This guy's willing to take a polygraph test. And I said, okay. And, you know, I had been a detective for many, many years. So it wasn't 

Rich Bennett 5:00
Okay. 

David Goldberg 5:00
like I was, you know, fresh off the, you know, street or nothing like that. I've been a detective. So 

Rich Bennett 5:07
Right. 

David Goldberg 5:07
you use your, you use your investigative and your detective skills and your communicative skills as a polygraph examiner. So I did the polygraph. The individual did, in fact, fail his polygraph test. However, he talked to me, he felt comfortable enough to me and he confessed to the murder with me. 

Rich Bennett 5:31
Wow. 

David Goldberg 5:32
And so then I had that information over to the detective. He then, of course, re-confessed. And that's what happened. 

Rich Bennett 5:41
Hello. How long were you doing the polygraph stuff for? 

David Goldberg 5:45
When I've got my very first polygraph. 

Rich Bennett 5:48
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 5:49
Well, I have to intern. Yeah. Once I graduated, you have to intern for a minimum of six months. So I would say that I got that probably within 

what right after that six-month internship when I got my license immediately. So I would say probably you know, soon as I finished intern. 

Rich Bennett 6:09
Okay. So even though you're in the FBI, you still have to get a license to do the polygraph. 

David Goldberg 6:13
Well, well, I wasn't in the FBI. I wasn't in the FBI. I said, I 

Rich Bennett 6:18
mean, that's a, I'm sorry, police department. 

David Goldberg 6:21
Right. 

Rich Bennett 6:21
You were in the police department doing 

David Goldberg 6:23
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 6:23
this. 

David Goldberg 6:23
You still have to, yeah, you still have to be licensed. Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 6:27
Wow. I did not know that. 

David Goldberg 6:29
Yep. 

Rich Bennett 6:29
All right. So with polygraph examinations, because I'm sure what you see on TV is. Not accurate. A lot. But what are 

David Goldberg 6:41
Correct. 

Rich Bennett 6:41
some of the biggest misconceptions about them? 

David Goldberg 6:45
The biggest misconceptions that people and I talk about this a lot is one, what you see on TV, it's very quick, it's very in your face. 

Rich Bennett 6:57
Right. 

David Goldberg 6:59
And you know, the light shining in your face and they're slamming their hands and their, you know, it's not like that at all. It's absolutely not. And, and they don't show you the phases of the polygraph. There's a three phase process to a polygraph. 

Rich Bennett 7:17
Really? 

David Goldberg 7:18
And yeah, it's what you see normally on TV is the person hooked up. You see the charts, the lines. And then of course, you see the interrogation. And that's not how a polygraph is. And so, and the misconception is, is that, you know, people are going to fail because they're nervous. 

Rich Bennett 7:40
Right. 

David Goldberg 7:40
People are going to be, you know, called a liar, immediately, you know, and it's not. Those are all myths, those are all fabricated things for ratings on TV and TV shows. It is absolutely not that way. And I can explain how the process is if you weren't 

Rich Bennett 8:01
absolutely because yeah, I'm amazed by this stuff. 

David Goldberg 8:05
So here's how the polygraph procedures go. No matter what the issue is, no matter who you are, no matter what matter of importance that you, the individual wants to resolve, whether it's a criminal, whether it's a civil matter, what, you'll go and you'll see that examiner and hopefully that examiner is of the highest experience individual. And when you go, you're going to be nervous. So let's put that right out the date. You're going to be nervous, no matter what. And that is not going to cause you to fail your exam. So I want to put that out. I 

Rich Bennett 8:46
Okay. 

David Goldberg 8:46
hear that all the time. Okay. Nervousness, anxiety, anxiousness, medical conditions, medications that you take will not under any circumstances cause you to fail this test. So when you go and you see that examiner, the very first thing that they're going to do is they're going to make sure that you are suitable for this test, which means they're going to get some basic information from you to ascertain one, whether you're inebriated, whether you're Stoned off your gore, whether you are sleep deprived, whether you have, what kind of medication you are taking and what the issues that you're taking it for, whether you're cognitive to understand, what the examiner's talking about. 

Let's say you're here for infidelity or let's say you're here for allegations of, you know, being falsely accused of molestation of a child, whatever the issue is or theft from a workplace. That's the issue that you're going to be tested for that day. Then what happens is, is you might be taken from one room to another room, meaning the, let's say you start out in a conference room, or a small room where the paperwork's done, then you're brought into an examination room. When you're in that examination room, that's where an interview process begins, where you're going to be interviewed in length in reference to the issue that needs to be resolved. And that's where the examiner's going to hear your story, okay, whether you're going to lie, whether you're going to show deceit in that story, whether you're going to fabricate, exaggerate, make up, whatever, or whether you're absolutely going to tell the absolute complete truth. 

Rich Bennett 10:57
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 10:59
interesting. Then what happens is the examiner's going to take your story, going to question you some more maybe to make sure everything is absolutely completely through in reference to that story, he might have the examiner may be a law enforcement and have other facts and maybe, you know, question you more or whatever. And then what's going to happen is is that examiner's going to formulate questions accordingly based on what you have said based on what the facts they have, review those questions with you so that you know there's not going to be any surprise questions. You're going to know every single question that test that you're about to take so that you have no surprise, you know, reactions to 

Rich Bennett 11:44
Right, 

David Goldberg 11:44
like wait, where is this coming from, you're going to know every question you're going to be tested on, then you're going to be tested multiple times on the issue that you're being asked afterwards. The final phase is the rendering of the results where the examiner reads the charts and sees where your physiology is either steady or whether or went up or down or whatever in reference to your reactions to the questions, and then they're going to tell you that examiner is going to tell you whether or not you are absolutely telling the absolute complete truth, or whether you were 

Rich Bennett 12:31
deceitful. Interesting, it's something you mentioned, which kind of kind of shocked me, you said infidelity. 

David Goldberg 12:41
In fidelity testing, sure, that's not a rarity. I mean, that's probably a lot of individuals that they have couples, whether you're married, whether you are engaged, whether you're gating, whether you're, you know, same sex. You know, that doesn't 

Rich Bennett 12:58
right 

David Goldberg 13:00
people have their significant other tested because either of us has been broken somehow, some way, and they need clarifications on what that other party has either told them or what they have found or what they have been told and that other party is either making up, calling you crazy, or saying, you know, this has not happened, or prove it to me, or yeah, I'll take a polygraph test, and then they take a polygraph test, and if they've taken a polygraph test with a very credible and very experienced and expert polygraph examiner, then the truth is absolutely going to be found. And that's where a lot of couples go to find out what's really happening. 

Rich Bennett 13:57
Wow. God, I guess in a way that could backfire either way. 

David Goldberg 14:04
Meaning 

Rich Bennett 14:04
what are the good or bad me. All right. So let's, let's, I'm reading this wrong. So think of this wrong. So if in fact, is somebody, what's the term I'm looking for? 

David Goldberg 14:17
He did. guess 

Rich Bennett 14:18
Yeah, I 

David Goldberg 14:19
falsely accused what? 

Rich Bennett 14:20
Yeah. In other words, let's say they weren't lying. 

but the spouse or significant other thinks the whole time they were. Now they're not, I mean, do you see most of the time where it actually helps the relationship or sometimes where it does backfire and makes the relationship even worse? 

David Goldberg 14:42
Well, here's what happens. And I always say this, and that's a good excellent question. If you're being, if you know for an absolute fact, and you're in this relationship, whether you're married, you're dating, engaged or whatever, and all of a sudden, the other party is now choosing you of doing something inappropriate in this relationship. And you absolutely, and I say absolutely, no, that you are an innocent individual, and you have not done it. The very first thing that that's going to do is it's to really piss you off. Am I right? Because 

Rich Bennett 15:19
Yeah, 

David Goldberg 15:19
you're being falsely accused of 

Rich Bennett 15:21
right. 

David Goldberg 15:22
something you know you haven't done. 

Rich Bennett 15:24
Right. 

David Goldberg 15:25
So right off the bat, trust is broken within that relationship, because she or he doesn't believe in you for whatever 

Rich Bennett 15:37
yeah, 

David Goldberg 15:37
reason. So when they come, and this is me now, when they come to me, I have to find out why that other party believes that their significant other has either cheated, had an emotional affair, or did something inappropriate. I have to find out from them first, 

Rich Bennett 16:00
right? 

David Goldberg 16:00
why, Why they believe this? And a lot of times I will tell you, a lot of times, that individuals tell themselves stories and believe these stories in their head. And then what they try to do is they try to look for evidence who fit the narratives that they have built in their head. And when they can't find it, then they lash out at their significant other in hopes that that significant other will either falsely confess and say, okay, you got me, you know, or yeah, get it. And then that significant other will say, yep, I know it all along, but when they don't, and they stand firm and say, you're crazy, you're lunatic, this is not happening, then what happens is, then they say sometimes at least when they've come to me, you know, I'm willing to take a polygraph test. And then they do come to me and you're your question is, is what happens when they've taken this and they've passed what happens? A lot of times the person that's taken the polygraph test, their status, their integrity gets elevated back again, because now they've proven that they've not cheated, they've not done anything. However, the person that has believed that they have cheated, and they believe that they've done something wrong, it's a twofold, meaning there are times when that person still doesn't believe the results of the polygraph. That's number one, number two is they still believe that their significant other did something, you know, to either manipulate or there's still something out there. And I always tell them this, that when that happens, it's not the person that took the polygraph test, because they now prove that they have passed. 

Rich Bennett 18:08
Right. 

David Goldberg 18:09
Now the issue is with the person that believed it, they need to go get some help. Therapy wise, because if you're still believing after they've taken a very significant, qualified examination, and you're still not believing it, then it doesn't matter what your significant other does or takes, you're not going to believe nothing, any professional will 

Rich Bennett 18:34
Right. 

David Goldberg 18:34
tell you, because the issue is now within you. And so the question you asked is, will that still help or hurt? It still hurts because nothing they're going to do is going to help. And 

Rich Bennett 18:53
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 18:53
a story I can tell you is, I have a, or I had a gentleman who has taken multiple, multiple examinations, not just with me, but with two other polygraph examiners. 

Rich Bennett 19:13
Wo. 

David Goldberg 19:14
for his significant other, his wife, because one she has issues within him that she just constantly believes that he is cheating. And he feels that it's his obligation to constantly make her feel better. you know, his vows are the means the most to him. So death do as part is what he said, no matter what. And he constantly takes these examinations. Now I stopped them after his second one with May. I said, you need no more with May. And 

Rich Bennett 19:55
And he said, 

David Goldberg 19:56
she, and what happens is is, at the end of the test with me, she says, oh my god, this is great. I believe it. Everything is fine. But I know after the second one, when he came back the second time, I knew that that wasn't going to be the case for her. And so what happens is, and this happens a lot. The significant other, usually after a while, says, I believe it, but then it just starts festering back up again. And so that's where he's at. He's constantly going and going to different examiners. And she's finding them. But what she's really looking for is an examiner that's finally going to give her the answers that she's really looking for. And thus far, thankful for him, he's passed every single one because he's not doing the things that she's choosing him of doing. 

Rich Bennett 20:45
Maybe she needs to take one because she's hiding something. 

David Goldberg 20:51
that would be, I would say that that is true. That does happen a lot, 

Rich Bennett 20:54
There. 

David Goldberg 20:55
but she has some significant, I would say, mental issues, 

Rich Bennett 21:01
Well, 

David Goldberg 21:01
and I would say that. And so when that happens, 

I would say that she doesn't need to take a polygraph death, she just needs to get some help. And then that way she wouldn't be making him take these kind of examinations. And he's doing it because he wants to make her feel 

Rich Bennett 21:18
better. Actually, I'm glad you mentioned that. So somebody's bipolar... I can never pronounce it, right? 

David Goldberg 21:25
She gets a friend. 

Rich Bennett 21:27
Yeah. Can they take the test as well? 

David Goldberg 21:30
They can take the test and I've done it before. And I know 

Rich Bennett 21:33
Okay. 

David Goldberg 21:33
what the next question would be is, can they pass a polygraph test? And I hear that a lot, meaning if you believe your lie, if you truly believe the lie or believe the story, can you pass the polygraph test? And you're going hear, and I know I'm going to hear it, meaning when you hear all the people write in, 

Rich Bennett 21:55
and right, 

David Goldberg 21:55
And all that stuff. You're going to hear, yeah, I'd bypass the polygraph test, I'd lie my ass off, and yeah, sure. And here's how people beat polygraph test. I'll say it right now. Can you beat a polygraph test? 100 percent. You know how you beat a polygraph test? You beat a polygraph test with an inexperienced examiner. It's that simple. With an inexperienced examiner that doesn't know what they're doing. 

Rich Bennett 22:18
right. 

David Goldberg 22:19
An inexperienced examiner will catch every single deceitful person every single time. An inexperienced examiner, you will beat that person all the time, because they don't know how to formulate proper questions. They don't know how to interview, and they don't know what they're doing. And I say that all the time, and I'll repeat that 110 percent, and I know that for a fact, because there have been people, and I can tell stories, there've been people that have gone to other examiners, gotten results. They didn't believe those results. They came back to me, and they've confessed to me as to how they beat that examiner, and they didn't beat me, because I found out the real answers. So I know that that happens. 

Rich Bennett 23:07
Okay. So that just takes me back to the part about getting licensed. I take it when you get licensed to become an examiner. They're not all the same. As far as 

David Goldberg 23:21
the license, yeah, the training, the training is absolutely all the same. That's why it's called basic polygraph school, just like the military, basic bootcamp. It's all the same. You learn your rules, you learn your basic general orders, all that stuff. Same with polygraph. You're going to learn how to formulate questions, you're going to learn how to recharge, you're going to learn how to attach. However, it takes an experienced examiner to know how to interview, to watch body language, to watch certain cues, to formulate proper questions in order to make sure that what you're trying to resolve is covered, and there are sometimes questions that are asked. are not properly asked and they may perfect example. When it comes to infidelity sometimes people ask just like when and people do ask this especially when you're in a relationship they first thing out of their mouth is is are you cheating on me? Well what's your definition of cheat? What's my definition of cheat are two different things and it 

Rich Bennett 24:43
say 

David Goldberg 24:43
could be 

Rich Bennett 24:44
true? Yeah. 

David Goldberg 24:45
right? 

Rich Bennett 24:45
Yeah 

David Goldberg 24:45
Can I always 

Rich Bennett 24:46
especially in today's 

David Goldberg 24:47
world. Well exactly right. Well I also use this as the and I say this and it goes back to the Clinton analogy when Clinton was in trouble and he says I did not have sexual relations with that woman. Well when you go and you look at that definition to what someone think sexual relations with someone 

Rich Bennett 25:11
is 

David Goldberg 25:12
and you write that in a question form. Did you cheat on your wife and they consider well you know what I didn't put my you know what and you know what then guess what? To them that's not 

Rich Bennett 25:27
cheating. 

David Goldberg 25:28
So I don't ask that and so if I were to ask that kind of question in an infidelity it would be did you have sexual physical contact and then I would include the acts so that there's no ambiguity you know what we're talking about. with same with when it comes to child sexual molestation 

Rich Bennett 25:56
Same 

David Goldberg 25:56
you know instead of saying did you touch that girl well yeah I touched I touched her on her hand you know 

Rich Bennett 26:04
right or 

David Goldberg 26:05
you know yeah I patted her on on her shoulder you know look bonehead I'm not talking about that. You know what I'm asking you know 

Rich Bennett 26:12
yeah 

David Goldberg 26:13
and and and when you talk to them about that you you have to be really specific to identify and target what you're asking in order to elicit that specific reaction. And then what happens is is when inexperienced examiners don't ask the right question and you don't elicit the right reaction that's how people beat polygraph tests. 

Rich Bennett 26:42
On average because I'm I'm sure each case is different how long does it take you to develop the questions on average. 

David Goldberg 26:51
The average polygraph tests per the American polygraph association should take a minimum of an hour and a half. 

Rich Bennett 27:00
Wow! 

David Goldberg 27:00
My my polygraph tests take a minimum of three hours. 

Rich Bennett 27:06
It's a lot of questions. 

David Goldberg 27:08
Well the interview process the questions and yes but but but you're right though but here's the thing. When you say questions in the interview process it is questioning and then out of that interview you're gaining a lot of information to write down the questions that you're going to be tested. 

Rich Bennett 27:28
And how long have you been doing this? 

David Goldberg 27:31
25 years. 

Rich Bennett 27:32
And you haven't written a book yet? 

David Goldberg 27:35
I know. I know I sure it's good night. 

Rich Bennett 27:37
Yeah I oh my god don't you have to have a ton of stories of I mean it's just I find it interesting and the thing is because you're like I said to begin a lot of times people think it's only for criminal investigations but how many times have you done for some eyes employment as well? 

David Goldberg 27:56
I've done it for tons of employment and you know I've written tons of blogs on my you know website 

Rich Bennett 28:04
about okay 

David Goldberg 28:05
unemployment and I've written a lot of things for a lot of people and and I say this and I and I'm very passionate about my job. 

Rich Bennett 28:12
right 

David Goldberg 28:13
Polygraphs are not just for criminal and that's where the TV thing you think it's just for criminal and that's why people don't know that they can use it for everything and anything and polygraphs are the most empowering pool that someone can get because here's the reason what I say I have helped probably more women when it comes to them being abused sexually when they were a child or a teenager and their family never believed them back then and they lived with this trauma all their life and now that they're an adult now that they're an adult and they may have their own family themselves and they don't want their children whether it's a daughter or a son to go through the same exact issue that they're going through now that they're an adult and they're old enough they then call me and they say hey you know what I want to take a polygraph test and I say okay what's what's the issue that you want to resolve and they say I was sexually abused when I was a teenager or or a child and I want to prove that it happened you know and I say 

Rich Bennett 29:23
right right 

David Goldberg 29:23
the kind of thing that would happen, but that would be the point. And a lot of times the Statue of Limitation has ended, but a lot of times I'll tell you a lot of states have no Statue of Limitations, Okay, which means you still could charge if the Commonwealth of the prosecution or the DA wishes to do it, but that's not why these women want to do this. 

That they should have, and it's time to make men's for families that are torn apart, because now they have their own children, and they're not allowing their children to meet their grandparents until they can prove that you say sorry that you should have protected me back then, and that's the only way I'm gonna let you have visitation with my grandson or granddaughter. Because if I can't, I can't trust you protecting me, how am I gonna trust you protecting them. And so, a lot of times they come to me, and I'm the very first person when they come to me, and they take a polygraph test, and I'm the very first person that says, you know what, you passed, and I believe you the floodgates open, and you'd be surprised, but this empowers these women, like there's no tomorrow. And not just women, even men that have been abused, and it just, the polygraph is so powerful, and I think more and more people need to understand that no matter who you are, what gender you are, what denomination, it's irrelevant. It's getting closure for what has troubled you, you can take a polygraph test, prove your innocence, prove your integrity, and you're gonna have evidence, and I say it's evidence, because you're gonna have a written documentation that's gonna prove that you've taken this, and everyone that has false rumors and false allegations, all they have is just a word of mouth. They have no documents, 

Rich Bennett 31:27
Yeah, 

David Goldberg 31:27
you're gonna have it, and you're gonna be able to show your integrity is a lot more than these other people. 

Rich Bennett 31:34
You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett, we'll be right back. 

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Let's get back to the conversation. I would think that would help a lot too with people that are going through whether it be anxiety, depression, whatever, because they're holding all this stuff in and it's been so long they can't remember everything. And you're poor, you're able to put it out quicker than going to therapy sessions, it seems like 

David Goldberg 33:54
And you know what you said it rich, you said that so eloquently, that is so true because these people sit home with these anxiety 

Rich Bennett 34:01
yeah. 

David Goldberg 34:01
driven and then they go to themselves and they say, is it a dream? Is it 

Rich Bennett 34:06
yes. 

David Goldberg 34:06
I don't know. And so there's with me for three solid hours. And here's what I say is different between going to therapy and going to me is for three solid hours. We're going to be sitting and talking and I'm going to be listening to you. When you go to therapy, what's the therapist do? You sit there for about 50 minutes and the first thing they do at then they go, well, you know what? Sometimes up, go up to the front, talk to my receptionist and see what my next schedule is and get on the books. And when you're in therapy, you're ready to just get into what you're about to talk. And then they say, times up and you're like, oh, and then you got to go back and remember when you come back in a week or two weeks, you got to remember where you started. And it's and with me, we'll and here's the thing where I want you to understand something everyone that's listening. three hours is the minimum. I've done five hour polygraph sessions. I'm not going to stop until we get you closure. So that's 

Rich Bennett 35:02
Yeah, 

David Goldberg 35:02
what I'm trying to get at. I don't stop and say up three hours is up. I will be there until we get you closure. That's when we end. 

Rich Bennett 35:12
Wow. And this is something that can't be done virtually so people have to come to you, right? 

David Goldberg 35:17
That's correct, but I go to them. I mean, I travel, but I mean 

Rich Bennett 35:21
a the country. 

David Goldberg 35:22
That's correct, but they can come to me. 

Rich Bennett 35:25
You waited a minute, oh yeah. So you travel around the country doing this stuff. 

David Goldberg 35:31
I do. 

Rich Bennett 35:33
And actually, because now you're new, you're retired from the police department. So this 

David Goldberg 35:37
is correct. 

Rich Bennett 35:38
So this is your full time job. 

David Goldberg 35:41
Yes, sir. 

Rich Bennett 35:42
Oh, man, David, that is amazing. I mean, because at first, when you came on, I'm thinking it was just, you know, all the criminal stuff. But now, when you mentioned bringing up mental health and how you're helping people. 

Not just mental health but everything, bringing bringing that trauma out. And like you said, that one woman just the floodgates open up. It's like, you're, you are lifting a ton of bricks off a lot of people's shoulders. That's amazing. Wow. 

David Goldberg 36:18
You can be used in domestic violence. This can be used in for children. I mean, you know, 

Rich Bennett 36:25
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 36:25
and when I say children, you know, children that they, a lot of children, not only get abused, but a lot of children nowadays, I should say teenagers, they do fabricate stories when they get in trouble. Parents have used this not as punishment, absolutely not, but to get their children and teenagers help, because these false allegations can ruin a person's life, like 

Rich Bennett 36:51
Absolutely. 

David Goldberg 36:51
there's no. And there's a lot of people that get falsely accused, falsely 

Rich Bennett 36:55
Yes. 

David Goldberg 36:56
charged, falsely incarcerated because. And I will say, because I was in law enforcement, and I know I didn't do it, but I know. People are quick to charge like this without proper investigations. 

Rich Bennett 37:08
Yep. 

David Goldberg 37:09
And this can crush an investigation fast and protect someone from being charged and incarcerated falsely beyond anyone's imagination. And what I mean by that is, is, and the parents that do this, 

Rich Bennett 37:26
commend them. Yeah. 

David Goldberg 37:26
I And what I mean by that is, is this, a parent will call me and they'll say, I'm a concerned parent, and that's why I commend them. And I don't know whether this happened or whether it didn't happen, but I want to make sure to protect my child. So if it did happen, I'm going to run to the police. If it didn't happen, I want to get my child help. And I say that's excellent because that's what we're going to find out. So when they come to me, and should I find out that it did happen again, I give them a documentation. They run to CPS, child protective service. They run to the police, t police have my report. My integrity is very high. They take it. They put charges on that person. And it goes from, it goes from there. If the child is not telling the truth and it's fabricating and I find out, and I do find out, then what happens is the parent then says, great, this person. Thank God didn't have to be criminally investigated, didn't have to go through the system. Now we're going to get the child help because that's where we needed to stop it right 

Rich Bennett 38:33
Right. 

David Goldberg 38:33
here before it got any further. 

Rich Bennett 38:35
Wow. 

All right. For you, because I would think doing this, there's got to be times where with you doing the examination, it just hits you so hard with some of these people to where. It could start wearing on you on your mental health, is there something that you do to help yourself dealing 

David Goldberg 39:00
I would say you're right. I guess being in law enforcement, 

Rich Bennett 39:06
with? Yeah. 

David Goldberg 39:06
seeing it and all I've done is just transferred from what I used to do. I used to be a sexual assault detective and so you know, I was used to hearing it not to say that it's easy but I 

Rich Bennett 39:22
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 39:22
think you go numb you know with the stories 

and does it affect you? Sure. I think it affects people that have never heard it before, worse. And when people come to me, my office is a non-judgmental office which means when these offenders, when these abusers, when these domestic violence individuals come to me and I have to test them or these cheaters, infidelity people, when they come to me, these people talk to me because you don't want to know why. I don't judge. It's not my job to judge and not only that, here's the thing. Not in 10 times, people want to do is be listened to and they're not. And so when I listen to them and they tell me and they tell me the most heinous kind of stories you can possibly imagine. And I don't go, oh my god, I can't believe you did that, I want to cut your, you know, knuts off 

Rich Bennett 40:30
all 

David Goldberg 40:30
and I don't say that. they're like, wow, this is a breath of fresh air. And I say, you know what, what you did was wrong. It's inappropriate. However, you're still human being and thank you for telling me the truth and let's continue. And 

Rich Bennett 40:48
Yeah, 

David Goldberg 40:48
so in reference to that question, what do I do? I guess I have outlets and reference, I don't drink, I don't smoke when I say outlets, I have hobbies, you know, I love sports, you know, I love to travel, you know, so I do stuff like that, but I do, I have a passion for helping people because there's just, there's not enough people out there to help. And every single person, and I'm going to say this no matter where you are, someone has an issue that they have not gotten closure for in order to move forward. And that's what this polygraph examination is all about. And it's from pre-employment to, like I said, infidelity to a criminal matter, to false allegations to parental alienation. You'd be surprised what I do for parents, both men and female that get falsely accused and they can't see their child because now they're in a custody battle. And they're being falsely accused of being a horrible parent or a molestation or whatever. And now they can't see their child or talk to their child. So they come to me, prove they haven't, take what I have given them, go to an attorney, they fight and they win, and now they have custody all back again. 

Rich Bennett 42:08
yeah, 

David Goldberg 42:08
And it's a great feeling. 

Rich Bennett 42:11
With this, especially since how long you've been doing it, and God, and you've talked to all types of people, 

what's, 

what's something actually? What has this taught you about? 

Actually, well, yeah, why people lie? Why do they don't tell the truth? 

David Goldberg 42:43
There's many reasons why people lie. Many reasons. We all lie. All of us, every single day. 

Rich Bennett 42:49
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 42:50
But we lie, the majority of the reasons we lie to one, protect ourselves, we lie to gain things we don't deserve to gain. We lie to elevate our status when we don't have that status. We lie to make ourselves better in front of others. Okay, such as if there's a man and there's three women there. So, you know, we know we don't have a chance, maybe with two of the women, but maybe we have a chance with one, but we're still going to maybe fabricate something about us or make us look a little better. So, out of the three women, we have a chance at least one of them is going to, you know, say, oh, wow, that's kind of cool. And then we have, 

Rich Bennett 43:41
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 43:41
you know, it's so that happens. We lie for a lot, a lot of reasons. But here's the thing. Lying isn't always bad either. We lie to protect people. We lie to help people. The blind part that I don't like is when we manipulate and we control in order to hurt and in order to gain things. that we shouldn't get that someone who worked very hard to get should have gotten and that's what is really bad when it comes to lying. 

Rich Bennett 44:26
Yeah. Has there ever been a time or times where you just absolutely refused or had to refuse to do a polygraph on someone? 

David Goldberg 44:39
Oh sure, absolutely. I mean, I've refused when it came to someone who was extremely agitated and hostile. That's number one. I've refused when they were not suitable, such as either totally obliterated because they were intoxicated or they had just finished smoking a lot of weed in the park a lot and they thought that they could beat that, you know, that was going to help them. So they weren't suitable in reference to that. I've refused to give a person a polygraph test because they brought their significant other with me and I knew that if passed, if she passed, once I didn't know, but should she have passed, he would have lost it because he was already highly agitated and he was threatening her. So I 

Rich Bennett 45:36
she 

David Goldberg 45:36
refused and told them not to, you know, maybe reschedule at another time. So there's many times that I have refused to test. And that's the difference. I'm not a person that's going to test someone just because you bring me the dollar bill and I'm not at a hired hand when it comes to a criminal matter just because a defense attorney hires me or, you know, where the prosecution hires me, I'm going to side and I don't. If you come to me or the prosecution hires me or the defense attorney hires me, if you tell the truth, I'll stand beside you at shoulder to shoulder in the court of law. If you lie and your defense attorney hires me, I'm going to tell your defense attorney, you lied, and you failed, because I don't want that defense attorney to go in front of the judge and make themselves look like an idiot. And then ultimately, the prostitution has all this evidence. And then proves it. And then makes the defense attorney looks like an idiot. And not only that, makes you who took the paragraph test even worse. So I'm not like that. And that's where my integrity is, but you have examiners, I'm not going to say you don't because I don't lie. You're going to have examiners that do that. Oh, you pay me. Yep. All right. Let's find out what that person did. And, you know, you have bias examiners. But for the majority, we have some excellent examiners out there. And we do. We have some excellent ethical examiners that I refer people to. But in every profession, and you know this, in every profession, you have bad apples. 

Rich Bennett 47:24
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Now, and with you, it's not just individuals, but businesses can hire, or use your services as well, right? 

David Goldberg 47:36
Yeah, for for pre-employments, for thefts. For, yeah, they hire me for a lot of that, you know. Back in the 80s, in the 80s before the federal government got involved with what was called the Employee Polygraph Protection Act. Anyone in everyone could was asked to take a polygraph test at an employment. Okay. Before meaning, if an employer, and this was 7/11, did this a lot. But if they didn't like you, and they thought you were stealing, they would say, you have to take a polygraph test, or you're going to lose your job. So they would send them to these polygraph examiners. And these polygraph examiners, back then in the 80s, these polygraph examiners were polygraphs got bad non-bad grip. 

Rich Bennett 48:25
Right. 

David Goldberg 48:26
These polygraph examiners would test within 30 minutes. You'd have, it'd be like, a revolving door. And so they test real quickly, and a lot of people were losing their jobs, their employment, their money. And it was just, but these exammers were making millions of dollars. They were really getting rich off these corporations. So finally, the late Senator Kennedy. 

Bu put a bill in, and it was passed, and it's called the Employee Polygraph Protection Act. And now it's a federal law that says that employers cannot ask employees to take a polygraph test unless there are very specific laws and rules that they must follow. 

Rich Bennett 49:21
Right. 

David Goldberg 49:28
And they are their business, and they have proven in this investigation that they can prove that the employees that they are going to request, meaning ask to take a polygraph test, they can prove that they had access to the, um, items that were stolen or missing, and then they give them a specific form, and they have the employee has up to 48 hours to decide whether or not they want to take it or not. And then these employees, um, if they take it, that's fine, but if they refuse, they cannot be fired. And 

Rich Bennett 50:07
Okay. 

David Goldberg 50:07
if, and if the employer violates this federal, um, law, they can be find up to, I think it's $10, 000 and they can see a, um, they can get federal, um, incarceration for it. So a lot of times now, a lot of times, um, they don't ask employees to take it. Now I can tell you, um, there are very, very few. I'm only one of them. I know I'm only one of them, probably in the state of Virginia. I'm only one of all that examiner that still will conduct these kind of testings because examers are afraid to do them because if the examiner doesn't follow the proper procedures, 

Rich Bennett 50:57
Right. 

David Goldberg 50:57
then the, the examiner can get in trouble too. I've been doing it now for 25 years, so I can do it like the back of my hand, and I've helped a lot of corporations and a lot of companies and, and they've never gotten in trouble and either is the employees or the employees and I've protected both, both sides. Um, because a lot of times, a lot of times like moving companies, here's a perfect example, a lot of times moving companies will come into a house, move their stuff, and then the owner will say, hey, I have a lot of stuff that's missing right now. And they'll make these claims to the moving company and the moving company will say, well, we never saw this stuff 

Rich Bennett 51:37
yeah, 

David Goldberg 51:37
or we never, we never touched it, we never moved it. So, the moving company will follow the employee Polygraph Protection Act, call me, and we'll, Polygraph test the employees that move the items, and they'll pass and then what happens is is now it's on the, um, side of the employer, the company, the moving company. 

Rich Bennett 52:03
uh, 

David Goldberg 52:03
And they, they, they, they don't have to pay anything and Scherz company doesn't have to pay out and now it's fraudulent and that's what happens. 

Rich Bennett 52:13
Well, I didn't even think about that. I bet you get a lot of calls from insurance companies. 

David Goldberg 52:19
I do get a lot, uh, sometimes in reference to fraudulent, you know, claims and stuff like that. Sure. 

Rich Bennett 52:26
Wow. All right. So, if somebody or a business needs to get in touch with you, how do they do that? 

David Goldberg 52:34
They can call me at 757-495-1301. They can go on to my website at www. executiveprotectiongrp.com and on that website has my phone number, my email address, and I respond to everything. And I'll be more than happy to answer any questions, any phone calls, and I will help anyone around the country with anything, any questions and any kind of issues. 

Rich Bennett 53:12
Something else that's on the website, a podcast, you do your own podcast as well. 

David Goldberg 53:17
I, I do it's called inside the Polygraph with David Goldberg. All 

Rich Bennett 53:21
right. Here's a quake, a quacy, here's a good God. Elmer Fund here. Here's a crazy question for you. Because I, and I recognize some of the needs you've had on the podcast. But have you ever on your episode or in any of your episodes done a live polygraph examination? 

David Goldberg 53:43
Not live, I have done a polygraph with someone 

Rich Bennett 53:50
Okay. 

David Goldberg 53:50
who was, who was a nace air. um, and he was very intrigued. I was actually on his podcast. Um, and he hasn't put it out yet. I don't know if he is or not. Um, but he was a, he's very popular in his, uh, his podcast. Um, but he, he was a poker, a professional poker player. And so he, uh, was a naysayer in reference to polygraphs. So I was on his podcast. He was very intrigued about what I was talking about. And so he asked if he could come to my office, um, from another state, I 

Rich Bennett 54:28
Right. 

David Goldberg 54:28
said, sure. So he came to my office and, um, he wanted to test me. He want to test my experience and my skills. So I said, that's fine. So he actually sent a lot of things up to see if I really could catch him. Um, so instead of me, um, you know, really leading this, he was really to see if he was going to catch me making mistakes. Now that's, that can be scary for a lot of people, you know, I mean, 

Rich Bennett 55:00
right. I 

David Goldberg 55:01
um, 

Rich Bennett 55:01
mean, it was 

David Goldberg 55:01
so 

Rich Bennett 55:01
probably a lot of fun for you. 

David Goldberg 55:04
Well, it was, I mean, and I'm not going to tell you it wasn't scary. Yeah. I mean, you know, 

Rich Bennett 55:07
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 55:07
you're, you're, here it is that, you know, he's telling me this is what we were going to do. And, um, I want you to figure out if I did this and if I did that and I say, okay. And so I tested him, I formulated the questions, of course, as a professional 

Rich Bennett 55:22
Right. 

David Goldberg 55:23
examiner, I tested him and I was spot on every single time. 

Rich Bennett 55:27
Wow. 

David Goldberg 55:28
And I think we took, I think I gave him, I forgot how many, I think it was five or six tests, examinations. I should say 

Rich Bennett 55:35
Okay. 

David Goldberg 55:36
for different issues that he wanted me to ask him. And I caught him in every single, um, 

Rich Bennett 55:43
Oh 

David Goldberg 55:43
every 

Rich Bennett 55:43
wow. 

David Goldberg 55:43
single time. So I think when it comes to being, you know, naysayers, which is kind of cool, because there's a lot of them out there. 

Rich Bennett 55:52
Yep. 

David Goldberg 55:52
I think unless you've really taken one or you know, haven't taken one, I get where a lot of people have bad taste in their mouth. And, and no, and here's the other thing I want to say. And reference to people that have and say, you know, polygryphs or BS and they don't work and all that. Those are coming from people that have really had probably a bad experience with an examiner. And I get that and some of them have either failed because they either deserve to fail. And so they're, they're talking bad because they didn't get what they wanted. I get that. But a lot of times some innocent people probably have really failed polygraphs. 

Rich Bennett 56:32
Yeah. 

David Goldberg 56:33
And they should have gotten what they deserve. And now they talk bad about that polygraph. And I get that because I've helped so many people that have been innocent and gotten bad results from their polygraph. And I have helped them and it's turned out better. Manifold, I just got a call today. And she said, because I helped her, she just got her job in a law firm after after failing several from the border patrol. I helped her in reference to what David and her advice didn't take, there's no tricks of the trade I give. 

Rich Bennett 57:13
Right. 

David Goldberg 57:13
I told her what she what she needed to do better. And she just wrote me and said, because of what you just told me and what I needed to do. She said, I got a job in a law firm and I couldn't be more happy. 

Rich Bennett 57:25
I 

David Goldberg 57:26
So 

Rich Bennett 57:26
bet that made you. 

David Goldberg 57:26
that that it did. And what I'm trying to get at is just because you fail a polygraph test because and you're an innocent person, don't let that define who you are, pick your head up, mov on because there's a job out there that you will get. 

Rich Bennett 57:42
Yeah, exactly. David, this has been amazing. I got I'm looking at polygraphs a lot different now. I didn't realize there are so many different things you can actually use them for. And now I got to listen to more episodes of your podcast too. I want to find the one where with the polygraph examination, I know that had to be a good one. Is there anything you like to add before you pick the last question? 

David Goldberg 58:14
You know, I just want to say that, you know, if you're really really having a trouble with anything that troubles you, just think of a polygraph as just another tool, another step that will help you, but it does not take away from therapy, it does not take away from seeking an attorney for your legal matters, and it does not take away from getting any type of medical issues that you need but a polygraph will help you elevate your integrity and then you can use that to go to a therapist or go to a marriage counselor or go to an attorney. That's just an extra caveat that you'll have for yourself. 

Rich Bennett 59:03
I have to ask you this because I see it behind you, so it was liar liar one of your favorite movies? 

David Goldberg 59:09
of course it was, I think 

Rich Bennett 59:11
Yeah 

David Goldberg 59:11
and a lot of people and a lot of people that come to my office, yeah I'll move out of the way and I'll raise this up a little bit, but yeah I think a lot of people that come to my office, they always say oh my gosh that's one of my favorite movies also, so 

Rich Bennett 59:23
I've never seen it yet. 

David Goldberg 59:26
well you got to watch it you'll laugh I think you'll you'll have fun and I think it really resonates to people lying and 

Rich Bennett 59:33
Yeah 

David Goldberg 59:33
why they lie and how they lie and and you'll see. 

Rich Bennett 59:37
Oh man. Now I've got to all right so David I need you to pick a number between one and 

David Goldberg 59:45
100. 

I get 100. Wow let's go with 

11. 

Rich Bennett 59:57
11 so I have a hundred different questions here and a lot of times somehow or another of these questions along with what we've been talking about and I still haven't seen them 

all. Okay, I guess in a way it maybe for what we were talking about before we start to record here and there's what is a quality you possess now that you wish you had when you were younger? 

David Goldberg 1:00:31
Oh that's that's easy I wish I was more back then okay now I'm more 

calmer. Back then I was all over the place so and I think what I have now too is I 

watch more of what's around me and I and I appreciate more of what I have and what is around me due to my maturity and I think when you're younger it's you know what's next and how can I get it and I don't think people really realize that when you lose loved ones and you don't take the time to really spend time with them time goes fast and you wish you had that time so I really now I take the time to enjoy those that I still have I take the time to enjoy what I have not what I want okay because if it's meant to be it's meant to be if it's not it's not and so I would give that kind of advice you know don't don't worry about what you can't have really enjoy what you have right now and enjoy that especially the people that are in your life 

Rich Bennett 1:02:10
absolutely 

David Goldberg 1:02:10
um because those that leave you okay you'll wish that you could hear their voice just that one more time and I know I do daily 

Rich Bennett 1:02:23
yeah 

David Goldberg 1:02:24
um you know my mom and my dad I wish I do so I would say take your time and and and not be such in a rush I think that's what we are as human beings we are we want everything now fast and and and and I think that's why that's where my compassion comes into play it in my profession and and that's what I do for people 

Rich Bennett 1:02:48
yeah we I think we take things and people for granted too much um I and I'm the same way I wish when I was younger I wish I spent more time uh with not just family members but even friends because you never know they may somebody you're talking to today or somebody you saw today and you refuse to talk to may not 

David Goldberg 1:03:14
be heard right absolutely 

Rich Bennett 1:03:17
so 

David Goldberg 1:03:18
absolutely 

Rich Bennett 1:03:18
yeah you never know David thanks a lot the doors open anytime you want to come back and actually better yet next time I get down your way i'm gonna look you up we we're not gonna go to pee bodies don't worry about that then I watch "Liar Lire" and if you ever make it up this way because I know Virginia Beach tries to do to stream crabs 

David Goldberg 1:03:46
I know, Maryland's got the, Maryland's got the best crab. You're not gonna tell me anything I don't know. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:51
Yeah, you can't, 

David Goldberg 1:03:52
that's right. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:52
We crabs 

David Goldberg 1:03:53
are, 

Rich Bennett 1:03:53
or 

David Goldberg 1:03:54
that's exactly right. 

Rich Bennett 1:03:55
David, thanks a lot. 

David Goldberg 1:03:56
T, thank you rich for everything. 

Rich Bennett 1:04:01
....What a fascinating conversation with David. Yo, I actually went into this thinking about polygraphs mainly as something used in criminal investigations. But David showed us how much broader the work can be. From relationship concerns and workplace disputes to false allegations and people searching for long overdue closure. A polygraph can sometimes serve as another tool for finding clarity. As David emphasized, it does not replace therapy, legal guidance or medical care, but it may help someone determine what their next step should be. We also learned that the machine is only part of the process. The examiner's experience, the pre-test interview, and the precise wording of every question all matter. David's very first examination involved a homicide and ended with a confession. So I would say he entered a profession without much of a warm up period. After 25 years though, what stands out most is not simply his ability to examine people. It's his commitment to listening without judgment and helping people feel heard. His answer to the final question may have been the most important reminder of all. Slow down, appreciate what you have, and make time for the people in your life while you still can. Truth matters, but so do compassion, patience and presence. And yes, I apparently have some homework to do because I still need to watch Lier Lier. David meanwhile already knows another undeniable truth. Maryland has the best graphs. To learn more about David, his polygraph services and his podcast inside the polygraph with David Goldberg, visit executiveprotectiongrp.com. And a special thank you to Steven and the boys at Eco Cool HVAC for sponsoring this episode and helping us bring these meaningful conversations to you. Until next time, I'm Ridge Bennett. Thanks for listening, and remember; every great conversation starts with someone willing to listen and someone willing to share. Now it's your turn. Join the conversation by sharing this episode, leaving a comment, reaching out to me directly. Take care. Be kind to one another, and I'll talk with you again soon.