Awaken Your Authentic Self with Dean Graves

Wendy & Rich 0:01
Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Hartford County Living presents Conversations with Rich Bennett. 

Rich Bennett 0:27
What if the stress and suffering we carry aren't simply problems to manage, but clues that can lead us toward healing and a deeper understanding of who we really are. For more than 25 years, Dean Graves has explored that question as a mental health counselor, meditation and mindfulness instructor, spiritual guide, author, and podcaster. Dean's work brings together psychology, philosophy, trauma recovery, and the study of consciousness. From helping people, including members of the military and veteran community, address unresolved trauma to challenge in our beliefs about identity, free will, and enlightenment. He invites us to look beyond the surface and reconsider what might be possible. How you doing, Dean. 

Dean Graves 1:19
I'm doing great, Rich. Thank you for having me and thank you for that wonderful introduction. 

Rich Bennett 1:24
Oh, it's my honor. I first of all, I love talking to people that come through podmatch. It's just, well, you know, because you're seeing, through at least three podmatch. You're seeing their bios and everything. 

Dean Graves 1:39
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:40
Now, I don't know how long you been podcasting. If you have, I don't think you have guests on your podcast 

Dean Graves 1:45
something. 

Rich Bennett 1:45
to you or 

Dean Graves 1:45
One of the podcasts that I, well, actually, I have two, I have three podcasts that I do. 

Rich Bennett 1:50
Okay. 

Dean Graves 1:51
And one of them, I have one guest, the arturians, 

Rich Bennett 1:56
and 

Dean Graves 1:57
one of them, I have recently started, I have other guests that I do interviews that can speak to spirituality and consciousness, and that's what I think. 

Rich Bennett 2:09
They see it. Maybe not because you got that particular niche, but where you get tons of emails from people that want to come on your show, and especially if you, if you're getting them, they may not, they want to talk on your show, but they don't even want to talk about what your podcast is about. 

Dean Graves 2:28
Right. 

Rich Bennett 2:29
Have you reented today yet? 

Dean Graves 2:30
I do. And, and 

Rich Bennett 2:32
it's 

Dean Graves 2:33
I'm 

Rich Bennett 2:33
nerve-racking. 

Dean Graves 2:34
I don't, I don't, I don't put them on the podcast. I do the interview, but if they, if they're just selling a book or something like that, you know, 

Rich Bennett 2:43
a 

Dean Graves 2:43
I'm not commercial vehicle. 

Rich Bennett 2:46
Exactly. 

Dean Graves 2:46
And so I don't, I just don't put it on the podcast. I thank 

Rich Bennett 2:50
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 2:50
them for their contributions and, you know, wish them well, but, but I don't need to promote their book. 

Rich Bennett 2:56
Right. That's why I love using pie match because you can, it's, you can see that. And you have the other podcast references. I hate getting emails from people recommending somebody to come on my podcast or they want to come on and they're not sending me links to other podcasts they've been on. And it's just now. So it's like, no, I imagine, and locals, of course, are, helps out a lot. All right. So I want to get into this because you spent more than 25 years exploring the mind, trauma, meditation, and consciousness. But I imagine this work began with something personal. So what happened in your own life? That first sent you searching for a deeper understanding of who are and why we suffer. 

Dean Graves 3:47
Well, let me let me back up a little before the end. 

Rich Bennett 3:51
Okay. 

Dean Graves 3:51
Okay. We have as we humans have a design to our life. 

Rich Bennett 4:01
Right. 

Dean Graves 4:02
And we exist simultaneously and what we perceived to be the metaphysical world 

and the physical world. And as participants in the physical world, we by design have a limited access to our metaphysical self that is co-experiencing everything with us. Our metaphysical self is actually that enduring part of ourselves that is on the enlightenment path that's on the evolutionary path. It's what our historical spiritual leaders are actually referring to when they say the part of us that is learning. Well, you and I are experiencing right now and everyone listening to this podcast right now are experiencing is a brief intense period that is available to us to allow us to magnify the nature of our experience to fulfill the curriculum that is associated with a range of consciousness that we have. 

And so if you try to explain it to people if you understand that you know we're we're on a sports team and we practice all week and we go to the co-get coaching we practice different things we watch game films all that kind of stuff and then Friday night happens and we have another game and we're supposed to remember in that game all the stuff that we learned in our. In our week of practice and do better because that's the the performance part right now you and I are in the game before the game we're in the practice field after the game we return to the locker room we review what we did what we didn't do what we're going to do better next time and all that stuff then we have another game. The average human is had over 3,000 lifetimes by now and many as is as many as 8,000 lifetime so those are all games that we've played 

Rich Bennett 6:29
okay 

Dean Graves 6:29
and each game is a setup that we will have different characteristics that we will experience and the experiencing of it is necessary it's not an academic enterprise it's a feeling enterprise. And so we have been right now you were you and I are experiencing life as a white male in the United States and lots of other criteria too 

Rich Bennett 6:58
Right. 

Dean Graves 6:58
but we've we've been everything by this point in time our experience we've been every color we've been rich we've been poor we've been a perpetrator we've been a victim whatever care you know whatever life conditions are available we've probably experienced it by now and all of those experiences accrues to our metaphysical self so it is shaped our metaphysical self as a consciousness pattern we're not we're not as you and I appear now we do have a body but it is a consciousness pattern body. 

Rich Bennett 7:38
Okay. 

Dean Graves 7:38
We have a vibration and so when we have an incarnation we begin that incarnation as to how we our metaphysical self has advanced to that point in our development in our evolutionary participation so we begin essentially at a consciousness level and we choose from the most part the characteristics of that incarnation because those will most likely give us the opportunity to fulfill the curriculum that we have yet to fulfill in our metaphysical self. 

Rich Bennett 8:21
Okay. 

Dean Graves 8:22
Okay and so we begin each incarnation with essentially a blank slate but it's not entirely where we start where we are in our metaphysical self and from the minute that we're born as an infant we begin to process thought. 

Rich Bennett 8:41
Right. 

Dean Graves 8:43
We are all motivated all consciousness is motivated to get more of what we like nobody wakes up in the morning so I'm going to go out and get more of what I don't like that may be the nature of your experience but that's not your motivation. 

Rich Bennett 8:56
Right. 

Dean Graves 8:57
So as an infant what we like is very simple because we're very simple. I mean we you know you're hungry you cry you get fed 

Rich Bennett 9:07
You sleep. 

Dean Graves 9:08
so it's again it's it's caused an effect. 

Rich Bennett 9:10
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 9:11
I'm tired. I want to take a nap so I cry a certain way in parents learn to recognize the the cries that the baby you know office. Okay well it's nap time we need a nap and so forth. As we mature the nature of our experiences becomes more complex than nature of our interpretations becomes more complex and we create from that first thought an identity and you can call this identity and ego you if you want to be fancy you can call it a hero fan but it's a perception of self. It's who we think we are 

Rich Bennett 9:49
okay 

Dean Graves 9:49
and we create this identity for the sole purpose of tricking the world into giving us more of what we like. In other words, if I dress a certain way, if I go to certain schools, if I have certain jobs, if I have certain friends, I live in certain neighborhoods, all of that stuff goes into our identity, because we believe that if we do these things, we will get more of what we like. 

Rich Bennett 10:17
Interesting. Okay. 

Dean Graves 10:19
Okay. And so the thing about it is, this identity is a false perception of our self, that 

Rich Bennett 10:24
Right. 

Dean Graves 10:25
is predicated solely upon our experiences and our expectations are created as a result of our interpretation of experiences. We do this for the sole purpose of getting more of what we like, but it is our perception of self, to be think we are, and it causes us, it is the sole source of our stress. And stress is a spectrum. It is from the very minor, you know, if you're accustomed to having cream in your coffee in the morning and you forgot to stop at the grocery store the night before, and you've got to drink your coffee without cream, you know, that morning, that very minor stress, but 

Rich Bennett 11:09
Right. 

Dean Graves 11:09
that notwithstanding it's on the spectrum, the opposite extreme of that is something that we would interpret as a trauma. The trauma is so difficult for us to reconcile that it challenges the authenticity of our identity, and we're unable to adjudicate the value of that experience at the time that we have it. Everything in between that we don't like is stress provoking only because it challenges to some degree the authenticity of our self perception, this identity that we created. 

Rich Bennett 11:48
Okay. 

Dean Graves 11:50
Okay. Suffering is nothing more ever experienced that we have, we perceive that we create experiences or that create experiences randomly come to us. That's not the case. We are magnetic, and the magnetism that we create by virtue of this identity brings us the types of experiences that we need to recognize that I'm getting more of what I don't like because there's some aspect of me that I have created that I need to let go of and heal. what healing is. 

Rich Bennett 12:25
That's 

Dean Graves 12:26
And so this identity is nothing more than a bundle of beliefs. That's it. That's all it is. The bundle of beliefs based upon our experiences that we incorporated in this identity under the assumption that it's going to get me more of what I like. 

Rich Bennett 12:43
Okay. 

Dean Graves 12:44
It's our source of stress and eventually suffering if we don't learn the lessons from the message, from the experiences that we've had, then the first is like stress is like you hit yourself in the head with the tube before one time and but you learn it hurts and so you stop. 

Rich Bennett 13:02
Hopefully you stop. 

Dean Graves 13:03
Learn the lesson. 

Rich Bennett 13:05
Right. 

Dean Graves 13:05
you don't learn the lesson, you keep bopping yourself 

Rich Bennett 13:07
When 

Dean Graves 13:07
in the head with the same tube before. 

Rich Bennett 13:10
Thanks Dean, you just put the three stooges in my head. 

Dean Graves 13:13
do. Well, it's 

Rich Bennett 13:15
Yeah, they 

Dean Graves 13:15
the nature of 

Rich Bennett 13:16
Time 

Dean Graves 13:16
our 

Rich Bennett 13:17
to. 

Dean Graves 13:17
experience. But we experience a lot of what we don't like by design, so we will know what we do like when we encounter it. But and so it's the process of creating this false perception of self reaching a point in our life. And this is going to occur when you're a teenager or you're going to occur when you're 90 years old, whenever it occurs is that first point that you have the awareness that all the stuff I've been doing may be providing me with conventional success, but I'm not happy. It's not making me happy. And that is the first time our healing tool and experiencing tool at this range of consciousness is awareness itself. That is an inherent characteristic of the creator that is available to us. While we are promoting this identity in order to trick the world to give us more what we like, our awareness is directional and it's pointed outside of us because I have to watch your reactions to my identity. So I can modify my identity to make it more effective and tricking you into giving me more of what I like. When we have that awareness that we're not happy in order to become aware of that, you have to invert that awareness for the first time and look inside. That is an awakening. That's all an awakening is. When you invert that same awareness, look inside and you realize I'm not happy. That is also the first step in a 12 step program. 

Rich Bennett 15:04
Oh, 

Dean Graves 15:05
the first step is, 'Hey, I'm not happy. Something's got to change. All the 

Rich Bennett 15:11
right. 

Dean Graves 15:11
stuff I've been doing is not making me happier'. And then step two is, there's got to be a better way. 

You can take god out of the twelve steps, you can take alcohol or drugs out of it, and just look at what each statement does. Says and it is an ideal blueprint for anybody's healing. 

Rich Bennett 15:51
Okay.

Dean Graves 15:52
And so when I teach, you know, folks, you know, I tell 'em, listen, I can't be with you the rest of your life to help guide you this. But you can go anywhere in the world and get help with this twelve step program if you use it to heal from your false perceptions of self and use that as a resource. 

Rich Bennett 16:15
Yeah . 

Dean Graves 16:15
But that not well standing once we have that awareness, the whole process of healing is continually inverting that awareness inside and going deeper and deeper and deeper because you have a two step process that is the enlightenment process or you can call it the, uh, the evolutionary process. You will have created my virtue of this identity what is referred to as emotional baggage, which is nothing more than the experiences that you've had that you didn't learn the lesson at the time that you had it. 

Rich Bennett 16:53
Ah. 

Dean Graves 16:53
And so when you get to carry that as emotional baggage, people that experience depression, the one common characteristic of depression is it feels heavy. 

Rich Bennett 17:03
Yes. 

Dean Graves 17:04
So what the hell could possibly feel heavy is the emotional baggage that you're carrying from the experiences that you had during the course of your lifetime that you didn't learn the lesson at the time that you had the experience and you get to keep that lesson. And it is an undone homework assignment, and you get to keep that in the form of emotion. So as you go back and you begin learning those lessons that were brought to you, you let go of that emotional baggage, you get lighter in no longer experienced depression. 

Rich Bennett 17:39
Wow. 

Wow. You know what, after you said that, because I went through depression for a while, and 

yeah, now I go back and think about it, that's what I did, which you said, get rid of that stuff. And it's like. 

Dean Graves 17:57
How did you get rid of it? You became aware of it. I 

Rich Bennett 18:01
became aware of it. 

Dean Graves 18:03
Yeah. Well, you know, I use the analogy. If you if you go out one morning and you're going to work and you see your car has got a flat tire, you're awareness has discovered the problem. You're not going to walk away and never use the car again. You're going to get the tire fixed. Either you're 

Rich Bennett 18:18
do. It's 

Dean Graves 18:19
going to 

Rich Bennett 18:19
true. Yeah. 

Dean Graves 18:19
Call somebody to do it, but you're going to fix it 

Rich Bennett 18:22
Right. 

Dean Graves 18:22
and then go on your way. The same is true. Once you discover this emotional baggage, you said, Oh, yeah, no, I'll just keep that one. Yeah, it causes me pain and suffering. But no, I'll keep that one. No, you let it go. You resolve it. Either you get help or you do it yourself. 

Rich Bennett 18:37
Always look for the solution. 

Dean Graves 18:39
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 18:40
Wow. 

Dean Graves 18:41
And so that is the process of healing. 

The other side of the equation, the next step that that comes is all these beliefs that you've incorporated into this identity that are the magnet for the types of experiences that perpetuate your stress and or potentially suffering. And so as you liberate the energy that you have been using to carry this emotional baggage that make during that depression, the making you feel so heavy, so depressed. You become aware of the beliefs that you've incorporated into this identity and you begin to throw those out. 

Rich Bennett 19:17
You're the negative crap. 

Dean Graves 19:19
As you do that, then you're making voids within your perception of self, whi are automatically filled with the happiness that you innately are. 

Rich Bennett 19:32
Yeah. Wow. 

The way you describe that, I, I think it makes a lot more sense than some, than some doctors even explain it. 

Dean Graves 19:48
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 19:49
Because I mean, no, become aware of it. Absolutely. And I think a lot of people do this but they don't realize they're doing it. And then, you know, look for the solution. The flat tire thing was a great scenario. Because yeah, you get a flat tire. You realize you need to fix it. Some people would just walk away and call out of work saying they can't go anywhere because. 

Dean Graves 20:21
Well, you 

Rich Bennett 20:22
they 

Dean Graves 20:22
know, 

Rich Bennett 20:22
don't have a clue on what to do. 

Dean Graves 20:24
After they walked to work to work two or three days, they think, 

Rich Bennett 20:26
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 20:27
well, maybe I need to fix that tire. 

Rich Bennett 20:28
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how many people don't look for a solution? Instead, they'd rather just focus on the problem. Because, I mean, granted, they became aware there is a problem, but that's all they keep focusing on. The problem, the problem, the problem, and not how to resolve it. 

Dean Graves 20:46
Right. 

Rich Bennett 20:48
And especially when it comes to anxiety and depression, you have to. Yeah. And healing as well, I mean, you're not going to heal until. You resolve 

Dean Graves 21:01
Right. 

Rich Bennett 21:01
it or start, I should say, start healing. 

Dean Graves 21:04
Yeah. Well, you know, the thing is it's like pushing a car from dead stop. 

Rich Bennett 21:09
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 21:09
It's really hard to get it going. 

Rich Bennett 21:11
Yeah, 

Dean Graves 21:11
But once you get it going, then you've got some momentum going and it gets easier and easier, the more you go into it. 

Rich Bennett 21:19
right. 

Dean Graves 21:19
Because every time that you have used that awareness to let go of that emotional baggage or the belief that you've been incorporated into your identity, both of which are restrictions to your happiness, the more you do that, the lighter you get and the more energy that you have to do more work. 

Rich Bennett 21:37
In the world, did you get into all this? 

Dean Graves 21:43
I 

had my awakeing when I was about 50 years old. 

Rich Bennett 21:50
50. So a year ago, 

Dean Graves 21:52
okay. Yeah. Well, a year ago. Thank you for that. 

Rich Bennett 21:59
So what was it that happened? 

Dean Graves 22:01
I can't tell you, it was about my 

Rich Bennett 22:05
Okay. 

Dean Graves 22:05
50th year and it was like most people is one of those things is, you know, damn, I'm not happy. And then, you know, a few days later, I kind of revisited that and then started meditating. Meditation is nothing more, meditation is nothing more than in concentrated inversion of that awareness inside. That's all meditation is. So the more you do that, the deeper you go, the more of these conditions that you've created become apparent and the more willing you are to let go of those. 

Rich Bennett 22:39
Did you still meditate all the time? 

Dean Graves 22:41
Every day. 

Rich Bennett 22:43
How often? 

Dean Graves 22:45
Well, I do it daily, 

Rich Bennett 22:46
Right. 

Dean Graves 22:47
that by time and meditation changes sometimes, the more alert that I am, the shorter my meditation can be and still be very productive. When I'm, you know, fatigued and that sort of thing, then I usually have to meditate longer because simply it takes me longer to focus my awareness 

Rich Bennett 23:06
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 23:07
inside to the degree that I need to have that get that feeling. 

Rich Bennett 23:11
Do me a favor, because I, I tell people all the time how important it is to meditate. 

Dean Graves 23:17
Mm-hmm. 

Rich Bennett 23:18
And some people say they can't, they don't know how, you know, they're coming up with excuses 

Dean Graves 23:26
Right. 

Rich Bennett 23:26
is what I think. But let everybody know how important it is to meditate, not just for your mental health, but even your physical health as 

Dean Graves 23:36
Absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 23:36
well. 

Dean Graves 23:37
Yes. Absolutely. Because the body, the condition of the body is a manifestation of the condition of your mind. Your mind tells your body how to be. And so if your mind has predisposition towards illness, it's going to tell the body to be ill. And it will remain ill until the mind changes that instruction to the body. 

Rich Bennett 24:01
And this is what you're doing to help people? 

Dean Graves 24:04
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 24:05
All right. Because I'm, I'm going to get into, especially with me being a Marine Corps veteran, what was it that, that 

holds you to help veterans and the military community? What, was there something that just triggered that thought for you? 

Dean Graves 24:24
Well, yeah, yeah, but honestly, I learned some methodologies for treating, he described it simply as unwanted conditions. 

Rich Bennett 24:34
Mm-hmm. 

Dean Graves 24:34
By a Serbian psychologist, by the name of Ziverod Slebenzki, in Ziverod died a few years ago, but the man was in absolute genius with his creation of methodologies to heal unwanted conditions. And one of his methodologies that I was training down gets rid of trauma in about 10 minutes. 

Rich Bennett 25:02
What? 

Dean Graves 25:03
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, understand that a trauma is the seed. The PTSD is the behavior that we create in order to compensate for the trauma. 

Rich Bennett 25:13
Right. 

Dean Graves 25:14
So when you heal the seed, the PTSD is no longer necessary and usually the individuals can heal the PTSD on their own because they become aware. 

Rich Bennett 25:25
Yeah, 

Dean Graves 25:25
 but 

Rich Bennett 25:26
within 10 minutes. 

Dean Graves 25:26
yeah, ask yourself what distinguishes a stressful experience from a traumatic experience. 

In understanding that everybody creates this identity, this false perception of self, stress is anything that challenges the authenticity of that identity. 

Rich Bennett 25:43
Okay. 

Dean Graves 25:44
But we have a perceived experience of, say, say you hypothetically, it's a 30-minute experience, perceived experience, okay? 

Rich Bennett 25:52
Hmm. 

Dean Graves 25:53
Hmm. Within that perceived experience, there are dozens of thoughts. Every single thought in or of itself is a complete experience. And it is a complete experience because before we can finish one thought and go to the next thought, we have to adjudicate that thought based upon how it feels. Either we like it, because it feels good, or we don't like it, because it doesn't feel good. And those individual determinations of that, of those individual thoughts, determines our perspective of the entire perceived experience. A, an experience that is deemed to be, perceived experience as deemed to be traumatic, means that there is at least one moment, one thought, that we are unable to make that decision because that one thought so challenges the authenticity of our identity. But for that thought, we enter the condition of shock. 

Rich Bennett 26:56
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 26:56
And our awareness leaves our body for that one instant. And so we have a gap in our flow of experiences. And so our perception becomes that this entire perceived experience is traumatic. When we go back, when I direct the individual to go back, scan through the experience, they don't have to relive it, but they have to go into it or not to find the peak moment of their emotion, which is instantaneous. They don't have to ponder it. They know what that moment is. 

Rich Bennett 27:26
Right. 

Dean Graves 27:27
They take, they freeze their awareness on that one moment. We do a little quick little exercise. They adjudicate that thought. The whole perceived experience becomes no longer traumatic. It doesn't matter whether the experience happened yesterday or 50 years ago. I worked with one Vietnam vet that came into my office in a wheelchair, but he had no 

distinguishable physical ailment. It was all the traumas that he had experienced from his time in Vietnam. And he had not walked for ten years. And we worked for about an hour. We cleared, as I recall, three, maybe four experiences that were traumatic. And he walked out of my office. He wasn't dancing out of my office. He was using the wheelchair, you know, as a support. 

Rich Bennett 28:25
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 28:25
Had a lot more healing to do, but that notwithstanding for the first time in ten years, he walked behind his wheelchair and walked out of my office. 

Rich Bennett 28:33
Oh my God. W. 

Wow. That... 

After hearing that, it just 

makes you wonder how many other veterans, even first responders are going through that and feel like they can't walk or anything. 

Dean Graves 29:02
Yeah. It's the same for everybody. Nobody has a different system. 

Rich Bennett 29:07
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 29:08
We are all...

Having the same type of structure of experience, same type of 

Rich Bennett 29:13
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 29:14
experience. Certainly what we perceive and how we have interpreted our experiences is totally unique to us. That's not the point. The point is that the nature of the experience is the same for everybody. The healing from those experiences is the same for everybody. 

Rich Bennett 29:34
I guess, too, and now I'm focused on that Vietnam vet. But I'm sure for other people that you've helped, the medication part, because that's face it, when you're going through stuff like that, you're prescribed a ton of medications that you probably don't even need, but have any come back to you and let you know whether they're still on those medications or not, because I 

Dean Graves 30:03
think...

Rich Bennett 30:03
would 

Dean Graves 30:03
No, they come off 

Rich Bennett 30:05
a...

Dean Graves 30:05
of 

Rich Bennett 30:05
Sweet, 

Dean Graves 30:06
Quickly. The thing about the medication is they've been drilled in their head that 

Rich Bennett 30:11
good, 

Dean Graves 30:11
they need the 

Rich Bennett 30:11
yes. 

Dean Graves 30:12
medication. They have a diagnosis and they will forever be on the medication because of the diagnosis. And I tell them that that's between you and your doctor. 

Rich Bennett 30:21
Exactly. 

Dean Graves 30:22
You need to make that decision, but you need to understand that the condition that prompted the need for the medication has changed. 

Rich Bennett 30:34
Yes. 

Dean Graves 30:35
And so you are the best judge of what you need in order to function at your maximum capacity. 

Rich Bennett 30:42
Yeah. You're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. 

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Dean Graves 32:12
VA is not receptive? 

Rich Bennett 32:15
No, 

Dean Graves 32:17
Because there have been no significant studies. I work by word of mouth. 

Rich Bennett 32:25
they got to 

Dean Graves 32:25
People 

Rich Bennett 32:25
seek you out. 

Dean Graves 32:27
come to me. And I do it, it literally takes 10-15 minutes. I can do in a 30 minute session, I can clear two, three traumas or trauma experiences. For a while they'll think, "Well, yeah, I feel good now. But I'm fearful it's going to come back." So they got to live with it for a week or so to realize that it's gone. And I actually half of my patients are therapists. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 33:05
Wow. 

Dean Graves 33:07
Yeah. Half of my patients are therapists. They try 

to rationalize it. They trash them. They'll all sort the things that they've been trained to do. But it takes them a while to realize, "You know, I don't think about that anymore. I don't have nightmares anymore." When those traumas are gone, that all sorts of things, the nature of their experiences changes and it's not a matter of your forever in that state of bliss that you were right after the trauma went away. You become more your natural self, and it's just a natural flow that's no longer part of your history. There's no longer part of your experience. 

Rich Bennett 33:55
Man, was you working through therapy? I never thought about that because the things that therapists hear every day from their patients, 

God, I would think it's got to put them under a lot of stress. The therapist themselves. And here you are helping therapists. That's great. 

Dean Graves 34:13
You know, most therapists became therapists because they've had some traumatic experiences in their life. 

Rich Bennett 34:23
Know that. 

Dean Graves 34:24
Yeah. Yeah. They've experienced addiction or they've experienced a rape or something. And that motivates them, which is a good thing, and motivates them to want to help other people. But it 

Rich Bennett 34:43
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 34:43
doesn't necessarily invert that awareness that is the healing tool to begin to heal themselves and be able to offer that under other people. 

Rich Bennett 34:56
Wow. Okay. I want to get back to veterans a minute because I love and I want to thank you for, you know, helping the veterans and active military and all that because I think it's important. But with all the ones that you've spoken with, do you feel that sometimes they actually hesitate to seek treatment because they really fear 

Dean Graves 35:26
having 

Rich Bennett 35:27
to relive what happened. 

Dean Graves 35:28
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. All the time. I had one guy that he was referred to me by a friend that was also in the same platoon at, you know, during Vietnam. And his, he was traumatized by the fact that he was the guy that was designated with his M1 to go around to the Viet Cong that they had killed and shoot him in the head to make sure that they were And so he had all these visions of, you know, exploding heads his whole time in Vietnam. And he couldn't go there. He wouldn't go there. And not even I said, you know, and I have some methods where I, you just feel the feeling and you take energy off of it until you can actually go through the experiences again. So it, you know, it can sometimes it becomes an incremental process to allow them to drop that resistance to going there. And he didn't even begin. And so, you know, if he won't use his awareness to do that, there's not much I can do because I'm just the guy he's got to do the work. 

Rich Bennett 36:41
Yeah, whic they should know how to do because I mean, that's part of the training 

Dean Graves 36:46
in. 

Rich Bennett 36:46
when we go 

Dean Graves 36:47
Yeah, right. 

Rich Bennett 36:48
You know, we have to do to work with that. What do you feel I like to say civilians, even though now I am one. 

Dean Graves 36:58
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 36:59
but what do and I don't know if you can answer this or not. But what do civilians often misunderstand about the transition out of military life? Because to this day, I don't even think that the military actually teaches us 

Dean Graves 37:18
Now, 

Rich Bennett 37:19
the transition. 

Dean Graves 37:20
now they're through with you by the time you're ready to get out, 

Rich Bennett 37:22
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 37:22
they're done. They're through with you. But understand we create this identity and what does, you know, the military for the most parts takes young men, women too, but young men that still have that identity perception that they're bulletproof. You know, when you're 18, 19 years old, there's, you know, there's nothing that you can't do and nobody, you know, your bulletproof relatively speaking 

Rich Bennett 37:49
there. 

Dean Graves 37:49
And so they capitalize upon that. No 18 year old in the world has decided that he wants to go out into a field and shoot people and be shot at. That's not part of their thinking that lack of awareness, but the military takes away those beliefs that would possibly bring that to their awareness until they actually get there. And when they actually get there, that's when the reality hits them that, hey, you know, hey, this, this isn't fun. And so that's where the, the trauma part comes in because they've adapted this identity, essentially enhancing the perspective that they're bulletproof. And then they get there and that identity is so challenged by the realities of the combat experience that it, it has to be become traumatic because it so challenges the authenticity of their perception of who they think they are. 

Rich Bennett 38:56
Yep. 

Dean Graves 38:58
And the military doesn't understand that. I can tell you as a matter of fact that they do not understand that. And so when they're through with, you know, the individual. OK, thanks for your service. See you, you know, good luck in 

Rich Bennett 39:14
Yup. 

Dean Graves 39:14
the civilian world. But you're, you're damaged, relatively 

Rich Bennett 39:19
speaking. Yeah. 

Dean Graves 39:20
When you get out of the military. 

Rich Bennett 39:25
That's why, yeah, 

Dean Graves 39:26
and you, they leave it to you. OK, well, re, re structure that identity to try to function in the civilian world. 

Rich Bennett 39:34
Yeah. 

Yeah. And it is hard on them. Yeah. Very hard. And a lot of people don't understand that. But I mean, it's one of the things they tell us once we, you know, when you join, you're expendable. 

Dean Graves 39:49
Right. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 39:50
And that that's you, you end up believing that because, well, let's face it, they, they do, they brainwash you. They have to. 

Dean Graves 39:59
Sure. 

Rich Bennett 40:00
But they don't, I guess you could say unbrainwash 

Dean Graves 40:04
you. Right. 

Rich Bennett 40:05
When you get out. What would you actually say to a veteran who has actually learned or thought they learned to live with their pain and believe nothing can change? 

Dean Graves 40:22
Well, 

I explained to them what I've explained to you and what helps significantly. If you know, if you've never seen a football game and somebody takes you to a football game, that makes absolutely no sense. It's probably not enjoyable. But when you load the rules of the road, you know what they're doing down there. And why they're trying to do this that and the other, then you can get involved in the game. If you don't understand the rules of the road of a lifetime, then it's intimidating. I mean, you're just trying to promote this identity. But when you understand the system, understand the structure of it, then you can see where you are in the process and make adjustments in order to be a better participant in the experience. 

Rich Bennett 41:21
Yeah, I could sit here and talk to you for hours about, you know, you just with veterans. But I can't do that. You go on and on and off forever. I do want to hit on your books because you've written four 

Dean Graves 41:37
Four 

Rich Bennett 41:37
books. 

Dean Graves 41:38
books. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 41:39
So what made you decide to write the books? 

Dean Graves 41:43
I want to share one with what I've learned. And the podcast do the same thing. And it all 

Rich Bennett 41:50
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 41:51
pertains to to consciousness. And I've written the books and I would like to say that it was intentional in this order, but it wasn't. It was kind of a reflection of where I was in my healing process. The first book is called Enlightenment Plain and Simple. And it is for the individual that maybe hasn't awakened yet or has just awakened and they don't know where to go. The second book is very secular. It's the identity model and it talks about what we've talked about how we create this identity, how it regulates our life and how we continually modify it. And the different stages of life that we go through and the course of creating this identity. And that is a stair step from the first book. The next is Edifying Children of a Lessor God which is more 

deeper through the individual as they progress in their openness to transform in their perception of self and our involvement in creation. And the last book that I've written is called The Enigma of consciousness and it gets really seriously deep into consciousness and the structure of consciousness. And while we're here, and we have an archetypical mind that regulates how we process thoughts and it goes through the nature of our development as consciousness within this range of consciousness. This is a much more complete, much deeper book. And so I've tried to structure it. You know, as you're ready for the information of try to try to try to provide it and increments that allows you to become aware of the beliefs that you've incorporated into this identity and to incrementally surrender your resistance to transform your perception of self to allow you to be more functional in your creationary participation. 

Rich Bennett 44:06
So when you use the word consciousness, what exactly do you mean? Because people here consciously think a week, you know, unconscious, you're just like a doll or whatever. 

Dean Graves 44:20
Everything that we are, everything that we experience is consciousness. Consciousness is the one infinite creator experiencing itself. So we are the one infinite creator and then it gets in all sorts of questions. Why don't I know this? What am I doing? Why am I having so much problems? And consciousness creation has a very definitive structure. And that's what I was talking about earlier that we have a curriculum at the range of consciousness that we experience that we were tasked with learning. And as we learn that, it allows us to evolve through the creationary structure. We are tasked with learning certain things. Awareness is actually what we are learning by having experiences. And that is the foundational inherent characteristic of the creator. So we are very low on the consciousness scale and elementary and our evolution. As we learn this curriculum, we will evolve to the next range of consciousness. The next range of consciousness deals with the next inherent characteristic of the creator. The one after that, again, within another and their five inherent characteristics of the creator that have been delineated by virtue of the development of creation. Awareness, love, wisdom, unity and stillness, and in that hierarchical order, because each Lower level is a foundation for the next level. So in other words, you have to learn the lessons of third grade in order to do the work of fourth grade. And so we're learning awareness at this range of consciousness. And we will become awareness, which is becoming more of our authentic self that we already are. This identity is a false perception of self but underneath that is our authentic self that is the and our creatorness that is inherent to it. Every time in our life that we have felt love. It is not because we have gotten anything from anybody or given anybody anything other than permission to temporarily surrender this false identity that we created. So we have built who we already are. 

And so as we learn to do that, as we learn to surrender this identity, this false perception of self that we have created more of that authentic self emerges. And that authentic self is already happiness. And so the more frequently we can stay in that condition of mindfulness of our authentic self, the greater happiness we experience, the less stress we experience, and the more we advance ourselves along the enlightenment path. 

Rich Bennett 47:29
Now 

with people if they're seeking your services, they they have to be local or do you also provide it 

Dean Graves 47:39
Oh, 

Rich Bennett 47:39
virtual. 

Dean Graves 47:40
I do it verse I do it all over the world. 

Rich Bennett 47:43
Okay, good. Good. So all my friends out there that are Vetch. you heard that. 

Dean Graves 47:48
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 47:49
And actually, I waited till the end, but I want to do it now. How can people contact you? 

Dean Graves 47:53
I have website. The initial D Dean D. A. N Graves G. R. A. B. S. All one word, no spaces or our punctuation dot info dot org dot org. I'm sorry. 

Rich Bennett 48:08
You know what Dean, when I first saw that, I was looking at it, I was like, D Dean, is this is this a misprint or? 

Dean Graves 48:15
No, 

Rich Bennett 48:16
it's 

Dean Graves 48:17
it's a Stuttering, it's Dennis Dean and there are other Dean Graves out there. It's actually somebody else has Dean Graves website. And so I had to put the initial for the first one in there. 

Rich Bennett 48:32
I'm sorry, I'm just cracking off the fact that you're saying the internet was stucker and Oh, God, okay, I used me don't do this. You know, because on climb match, a guest can submit question or they put questions on there, which I very, very rarely ask the questions that are on the climb match profile for guests, but I'm looking at the questions you have on there and you have some very, very, very, very, very good questions that I must ask you, 

Dean Graves 49:11
OK, 

Rich Bennett 49:11
if you don't mind. 

Dean Graves 49:12
John, 

Rich Bennett 49:13
a couple of them that really stand out to me. And the first one, are we alone in the universe? 

Dean Graves 49:21
I'll answer that by saying the universe is a very, very busy place. 

Rich Bennett 49:26
Yes. 

Dean Graves 49:27
Very, very busy. We perceive the physicality to be the limit of our experience, but it is it is simply a thought. It's a concept and my significant or not there and I were we were laying on the beach last year, and it was off season. So we had the place to ourselves at night and we were watching the Milky Way out over the ocean. And we both had this simultaneous thoughts that wow, this is just this is like wallpaper. And we can just peel that away. It's just so thin, but it's our perception of how things really are. And as you surrender that, then you realize that wow, we're just here having a brief moment in this vastness of creation. Creation is more vast than we can possibly perceive it to be, 

Rich Bennett 50:25
Yeah. 

Dean Graves 50:25
but it's not physical. 

Rich Bennett 50:28
And going along with that because I think this question could tie in with that as well. And I know everybody has different beliefs on this. What happens when we die? 

Dean Graves 50:40
Well,we  take our suit off, and we integrate with our metaphysical self, and we go back to the locker room, and we get coaching on what we did right, and what we didn't do that we intended to do, and all that kind of stuff. And then we do it again until we 

Rich Bennett 50:56
get into coaching from. 

Dean Graves 50:57
from my higher self, from a multitude of beings, we exist, and this is hard for us to conceive up to, we exist on all levels of consciousness simultaneously. The only thing that restricts our capacity to know that and to actually participate that is our limiting perceptions of self. 

Rich Bennett 51:19
As 

Dean Graves 51:21
we surrender, you know, what you and I are using now is our ego mind that we create with this identity. But we also have access a multitude of other minds that are functioning at this love and wisdom and unity and still in the stage. And those are all available to us if we are willing and able to surrender that perception of self. That's what that awareness that, excuse me, just inwardly directed awareness allows us to go deeper into our self, which is way deeper than what we can perceive. 

Rich Bennett 51:59
Yeah, I'm telling you Dean, these questions that you put on pie match. Those, just those questions alone could be our long episodes just based on that one particular 

Dean Graves 52:14
Right. 

Rich Bennett 52:14
And this one I really love and I think it's very, very important for people to hear this one. And again, this is one of the questions you have on pie match. What is the, what is? Run it, run the lips here. What is happiness? And how can people get more of it? 

Dean Graves 52:36
Because everything we've been talking about happiness is our natural state of being. It's the condition of our authentic self is already in a condition of bliss. And it's only our erroneous perception of self that we created with this identity that prohibits our ability to experience that all the time. 

Rich Bennett 52:58
If you ever taken part in a round table podcast, 

Dean Graves 53:02
nothing, 

Rich Bennett 53:02
meaning 

Dean Graves 53:02
nothing, I'm aware of 

Rich Bennett 53:03
just not just really. Oh, I got to get you on one. 

Dean Graves 53:06
Okay. 

Rich Bennett 53:07
I do. I'm serious because just again, just looking at those questions and it just, it's got all these ideas going through my head. And everything that you, that you know, I think it would be a, I'm going to have to put a virtual round table together on this. Because it helps with the mental health PTSD and the veterans. Oh God. Dean, I have a funny feeling we're going to be talking a lot more. 

Dean Graves 53:39
Love it. 

Rich Bennett 53:40
A lot more. Actually, is there anything you like to add before you pick the last question? 

And I know there's a lot more we could 

Dean Graves 53:51
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 53:52
talk about too. 

Dean Graves 53:53
there is there is. You know, I don't know. We've talked about it all that I can think of for the individual that is experiencing stress and unhappiness. We've wanted conditions as Dr. Slobinski described it. The happiness is within you. It's just a matter of you assuming the responsibility for your participation and creation. And in fact, the healing that you want to experience. And as you do that, you change the nature of your whole experience changes. 

Rich Bennett 54:38
I mean, this is how this works. I always have my guess pick two numbers. I have a hundred different questions here. And it seems like a lot of the times I'm going to say probably over 95% of the time, the question that they pick somehow another aligns with what we've been talking about. So, the first one is going to determine which block it comes from. So I need you to pick a number between one and five. 

Dean Graves 55:07
How about one? 

Rich Bennett 55:08
One. All right. Now I need you to pick a number between one and 20. 

Dean Graves 55:13
Twenty. Oh, no. Nine. How about 

Rich Bennett 55:15
nine? Nine. Number nine. Number nine. Okay. Now I got the Beatles in my head. Um, you know what? Okay. What is an aha moment you've had that shifted your perspective on something important? 

Dean Graves 55:37
Well, the same as it is for everybody that begins a process that moment when I realize that regardless of what I proceed to be success, wasn't making me happy. I mean, that was that was a dramatic turning point. And I had to repeat it several times to realize that it the significance of that awareness on my part. 

Rich Bennett 56:03
Wow. And tell everybody the website again and the podcast as well. 

Dean Graves 56:07
ok, the, uh, the, the podcast or link to the, to the website, the books, everything are on the, uh, the website is the initial D, so we're stuttering D, D, D, D, E, A, N, Graves, Geo, Rae, V, E, S, Dot, Org, 

Rich Bennett 56:23
And that's where they could go to all, 'cause you also do keynote speaking as well, 

Dean Graves 56:27
Right. 

Rich Bennett 56:27
right? 

Dean Graves 56:28
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 56:28
So you travel across the country, the world, you'll go wherever people feed you. 

Dean Graves 56:33
Absolutely. Absolutely. And give me shelter. 

Rich Bennett 56:39
Yeah. Yeah, that's important too. 

Dean Graves 56:40
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 56:41
And he doesn't mean a tent. Yeah, hook him up with the nair 

Dean Graves 56:44
beer, 

Rich Bennett 56:44
being 

Dean Graves 56:45
that's right. 

Rich Bennett 56:48
And eventually I'm going to make it to Memphis, Tennessee when I do, I'm going to have to look 

Dean Graves 56:53
because, 

Rich Bennett 56:53
you up 

Dean Graves 56:53
love it. 

Rich Bennett 56:54
Somebody just show me 

Dean Graves 56:55
OK. 

Rich Bennett 56:55
around. 

Dean Graves 56:56
Love it. 

Rich Bennett 56:56
I would get lost. Dean, thanks so much. It's been an honor and those of you listening when you purchase his books, after reading that, make sure you leave a full review wherever you can leave reviews. When you listen to his podcast, make sure you leave reviews of the podcast as well. And you're going to be hearing from Dean again, trust me on that. Dean, thanks a 

Dean Graves 57:21
Thank 

Rich Bennett 57:21
lot. 

Dean Graves 57:21
you, Rich. It's been great. 

Rich Bennett 57:24
What stood out to me in this conversation is Dean's reminder that awareness is where healing begins, whether we are carrying trauma, depression, stress, or beliefs about ourselves that no longer serve us, change becomes possible when we are willing to look within, recognize what is weighing us down and search for a solution. As Dean explained, healing can be difficult at first, much like pushing a car from a dead stop. But once we begin moving forward, each step can make the next one a little easier. We also explored Dean's work with veterans and others living with trauma. The role meditation can play in strengthening our mental and physical well-being, and his belief that happiness is not something we have to find outside ourselves. It is already part of who we are beneath the emotional baggage and identities we have accumulated. You may not agree with every spiritual idea discussed today, but I hope this conversation encourages you to remain curious, question what may be shaping your life, and remember that your past does not have to dictate your future. To learn more about Dean Graves, explore his four books, listen to his podcast, inquire about his counseling or speaking, and discover more about his work with trauma, meditation and consciousness, visit ddengraves. org. And when you read one of Dean's books or listen to his podcast, please take a moment to leave a thoughtful review, reviews help more people discover work that may offer them a new perspective, or help them begin their own in one journey. Until next time, I'm Rich Bennett. Thanks for listening and remember, every great conversation starts with someone willing to listen and someone willing to share. Now it's your turn. Join the conversation by sharing this episode, leave in a comment, or reaching out to me directly. Take care, be kind to one another, and I'll talk with you again soon.